Editing Forum:List of cards to side in against common decks

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{| border="1" style="margin:auto;" cellspacing="0" class="box colored type-character "
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! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" | Key:
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|<center>&nbsp;>&nbsp;</center>
| &nbsp;Can potentially cripple the deck continuously. &nbsp;
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|&nbsp;+&nbsp;
| &nbsp;Can cripple, but that deck contains cards (or a strategy) to save itself. &nbsp;
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|&nbsp;-&nbsp;
| &nbsp;Can work against. &nbsp;
|}

==List==

<div align=right>[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}/List|action=edit}} Edit the list]</div>
{{/List}}

<nowiki>[</nowiki>[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} refresh]<nowiki>]</nowiki>
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* '''This is based on the General/Basic builds of each deck.'''
* '''Also taking into account of the cards run in those decks''' (e.g. Gadgets run lots of [[Fissure]]s and [[Smashing Ground]]s, so Thunder King Rai-Oh will not Cripple the deck) (e.g. Glads have tricks such as the Book of Moon trick against Skill Drain). However, this does not take into account of the opponent's Side Decks (e.g. ignores 3 [[Dust Tornado]]s in their Side Deck).
* '''Ignoring [[Staple]]s as they are not [[Side Deck]] material.'''
* If anyone would like to add (e.g. cards or top tier decks) or change things (e.g. move cards from cripple to works against) please post the ideas below.
* {{User:Falzar_FZ/Sig}} 12:31, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

== New Decktype ==

Maybe we should add a new deck to the decklist: the one that revolves around [[Reborn Tengu]]. A good number of Tengu decks made it to the Top 32 in the previous Orlando tournament. Maybe a couple of cards that can be sided-in against them are [[Archlord Kristya]] and [[Royal Oppression]], since Tengu decks seem to rely a lot on Special Summoning.

[[User:Moja619|Moja619]] ([[User talk:Moja619|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moja619|contribs]]) 17:39, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

: [[Vanity's Fiend]] used in Frog decks.
: [[Debunk]]
: and you ''could'' abuse the fact that [[Reborn Tengu]] is a [[Mandatory]] Trigger. Would be nice if there was some combo that lets you attack all of them continuously and OTK them.... or vice versa, like a Strong monster + [[Battle Mania]]. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:04, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


can i ask what cards is best to side against twilight deck ? if i'm not wrong i has not see on the the list [[User:Gemini 93|Gemini 93]] ([[User talk:Gemini 93|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gemini 93|contribs]]) 02:39, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

: First two that come to mind are [[Chaos Trap Hole]], [[Koa'ki Meiru Drago]] (kinda);
: other anti Special Summoned cards, other anti Lightsworn cards (depending on the type of Twilight deck). <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:37, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

:Prohibition against Monarchs and Frogs = Win.{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}

:: What is the best monster to declare?
:: added Chain Disappearance against Formula Synchron spammers
:: Rivalry of Warlords against Monarchs (before, if you only control 1 monster, you can Tribute 1 Type for another Type in a Tribute Summon; now you cannot.)
:: Added section on Dark World.
:: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 11:57, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

How come [[Reborn Tengu|Tengu]] [[Synchro Summon|Synchro]] still doesn't appear in the Deck list above? It's pretty much dominating the major tournaments since Tengu's release   [[User:Moja619|Moja619]] ([[User talk:Moja619|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moja619|contribs]]) 21:06, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

: It's being discussed, (under the heading "New Decktype"; just a few lines above). 
: I'm not sure if it's worth starting a new section for them, or add it to the plants section. 
: Any suggestions on the cards apart from the ones in the plants section and the 2 mentioned above? <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:57, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, i see your point. plant synchro is quite similar to Tengu synchro outside of tengu itself. i don't know if the negation effects of cards like [[Solemn Warning]], [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]] and [[Black Horn of Heaven]] used on a [[Special Summon|Special Summoned]] tengu will prevent it from using its effect.   [[User:Moja619|Moja619]] ([[User talk:Moja619|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moja619|contribs]]) 02:03, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

: [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]]/[[Black Horn of Heaven]] (Summon negation) cards don't work against Special Summons that occur during resolution of an effect. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:44, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

== Modern Built ==

:Gladiator Beasts: [[Solemn Warning]]
:Gladiator Beasts: [[Dimensional Prison]]
:Warning is definitely a Main Deck card.
:Dragons:[[Different Dimension Ground]] won't do anything if chained to [[Trade-In]] since discarding a monster is a [[cost]]. [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 21:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Most people maindeck both already.{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}

: Solemn Warning's a [[Staple]], Dimensional Prison is already listed there.
: Was intended to prevent Trade-In from being activated that turn by activating it before hand, like in the Standby Phase, but I guess there's little point in that and you don't know when the opponent would have it, removed Trade-In from the list. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
::I think they're already [[Staples]], and are thus not [[Side Deck]] Material.
 [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:32, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

==Stuff==
:In the references to [[Necrovalley]], both [[Gigaplant]] and [[REDMD]] are noted to "not Target". That is no longer an issue. I find it ironic that there's a warning to get [[Royal Oppression]] out before [[Herald of Perfection]] comes out, but nothing like that in the [[Six Samurai|6S]] section.
:Also, you listed [[Ally Salvo]] as a counter to [[Celestia]] and [[JD]]. Prolly dittography.
By the way, does [[Dimensional Fissure]] hurt [[Gravekeeper's]]? [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 21:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

:: Fixed, thanks.
:: Removed; was probably thinking of something else.
:: Not really... I don't think so... <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

==Allies of Justice==
[[Ally of Justice Cycle Reader]] is awesome against Lightsworns and Agents-it's a double D.D. Crow and it's a Level 3 Tuner monster if you want to use it in a Synchro Summon. [[Ally of Justice Core Destroyer]] is a Catastor when you're dueling Agents and Lightsworns that you can summon at no cost.{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}
:"Cycle Reader" is a great Side, particularly against [[Fabled]]. "Core Destroyer" is OK, but [[Agent]]s can Synchro around it or bomb it with "[[Master Hyperion|Hyperion]]". Lightsworns have a bit of trouble unless they're the [[Chaos]] variant (they usually are). 'Least it kills "Wulf".
::On an unrelated note, "[[Chain Disappearance]]" only works against "[[Infernity Mirage]]" in the OCG.
 [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:24, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

::: Can you explain? I don't see why it can't be used on [[Infernity Necromancer]] in the <s>OCG</s>TCG... <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 22:54, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Cards to side against Agents need to be added, as they are now the top deck of the format. I recommend [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]] (stops Earth, negates Hyperion/Kristya/BLS if they run it, Sangan if they run BLS), [[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]] (stops everything), [[Leeching the Light]], (gain major ATK for game, was popular at the last YCS), [[Dimensional Fissure]]/[[Macro Cosmos]] (nothing in grave, no fuel for Hyperion, nothing to drop Kristya, nothing for BLS, Sangan doesn't search). [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 05:57, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

[[Grave of the Super Ancient Organism]] stops Hyperion, BLS, Kristya, and Trishula as well as the occasional Stardust. [[Chain Disappearance]] rids you of pesky Earths and Shine Balls.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 12:50, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

I can't believe I forgot this: side [[Zombie Master]] against Zombies. [[Paladin of Cursed Dragon]] works as well although not necessarily as effectively. Of course, [[Puppet Plant]] works as well. Kycoo stops Book of Life if I'm not mistaken.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 23:01, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ah. [[Big Burn]] against Infernities, or does that not work? [[Ally of Justice Quarantine]] isn't bad against Agents (Vulnerable only to Honest and Jupiter, and not even BLS).[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 23:25, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Big Burn worked pre-Leviair, but now it might actually help them. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 01:55, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, it's as effective as ever-unless they have Tour Guide, they have no access to Leviair once their Necromancers are Banished.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 02:11, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

And all good Infernity decks are running Tour Guide. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 19:19, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
::I meant that they have to draw it, since they'll be topdecking.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 20:40, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
:Definitely a counter.
:I should have been clearer. "[[Infernity Mirage]]" cannot be stopped by "[[Chain Disappearance]]" in the TCG because it is no longer a valid target after the cost for its effect is carried out (with [[Priority]]).
:"[[Zombie World]]" works all right against Agents. It stops Kristya, keeps Hyperion from bombing anything, blocks the effect of Jupiter, and crushes Sanctuary if they're using it (sillyheads). Doesn't stop Venus though.
 [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:06, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
:::Are you saying Big Burn is a counter?[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 20:39, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

:: Actually, my mistake, I misread it as you can't use it in the OCG for some reason, when you meant you can't use it in TCG. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:35, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

[[Mind Crush]] really trips up Machina Gadget decks, especially those that use the Gadget chain with Ultimate Offering for Xyz. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 13:03, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
==Dark World==
* "[[Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer]]" is good for blocking Gates and Smog, and fiddles with the Graveyard. He dies to Raven and Snoww+, though.
* Maybe you could add the caveat "bypassed by [[Dark World Lightning]]"; that card makes Debunk very hard to use.
 [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 15:04, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

==Rabbit / Evolsar ==
Any Ideas to stop this new threat? [[User:Ruicub|Ruicub]] ([[User talk:Ruicub|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ruicub|contribs]]) 12:07, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

[[Imperial Iron Wall]]. More [[Effect Veiler]].[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 17:37, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Use [[Dark Trap Hole]] and [[Giant Trap Hole]] to counter rescue rabbit, it should work quite effectively seen as it was originally desinged to counter [[Rescue Cat]]. [[Karma Cut]] can annoy rescue rabbit although he he may re summmoned later with [[Leviair the Sea Dragon]]

[[User:Matthew Lightbody|matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 16:09, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

I sided [[Lava Golem]] during Six Samurai format. I plan to do the same if the Rabbit Dino deck becomes big. It won't, though. It can't compare to Plant Synchro. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 17:59, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Any more advice to counter Rabbit / Evolzar? [[Special:Contributions/24.0.144.144|24.0.144.144]] ([[User talk:24.0.144.144|talk]]) 00:57, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
:[[Imperial Iron Wall]] works. [[Maxx "C"]] is pretty effective just to draw cards.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 01:10, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
::No one's mentioned "[[Summon Limit]]"? Also, "[[Rivalry of Warlords]]" pretty much locks Xyzs.
 [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 01:55, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Why has nobody mentioned [[Mirror of Oaths]]? I side deck two nowadays on DN to stop Rabbit and GB. [[User:Menace13|Menace13]] ([[User talk:Menace13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Menace13|contribs]]) at 04:03, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nobody seems to realise that Gozen Match just kills off Dino Rabbit. I think a Blackwing-Gozen Deck could easily win, as could a Dragunity-Gozen Deck. [[User:Vyomo|Vyomo]]

==Dark World==
I have a sugggestion for side decking against dark worlds. You can side deck [[Appropriate]] , so that whenever they draw a card you also draw 2 cards, this can give you very good hand adavantage ,and it can be combined with [[Maxx "C"]] to get more extra cards.


[[User:Matthew Lightbody|matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 14:04, November 25, 2011 (UTC)


== Exodia ==

For Exodia, can we put Exchange to "cripples the deck completely", and add [[Amazoness Chain Master]] (not as good since you have to get it killed, but still useable). [[User:Battlemaniac|Battlemaniac]] ([[User talk:Battlemaniac|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Battlemaniac|contribs]]) 16:44, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

==BF2's Additions==
[[4-Star Ladybug of Doom]] against Gadgets, Gravekeeper's, and Gladiator Beasts.

Steelswarm is actually pretty good, and if added, [[Blackwing - Jin the Rain Shadow]] is an side card (Catastor against them). If I'm not mistaken, [[Des Donut]] hurts them as well. [[Infestation Wave]] actually hurts them as you can return their monster to their hand and destroy their card.

[[Chain Burn]] is missing - [[Rainbow Life]], [[Des Wombat]], [[Lifeforce Harmonizer]], and [[Prime Material Dragon]] are all good sides against them. [[Vanity's Emptiness]] is also incredibly against them as it even stops their draw cards.

[[Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell]], while a -1, will almost certainly paralyze Dragunities and hurt Gravekeeper's. [[Field Barrier]] hurts them as well, preventing them from playing Field Spell Cards.

[[Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo]] is a godsend against Fabled - protect it with a Trap or two and you can't lose.

[[Huge Revolution Reversal]] is good against Scrap (Scrap Dragon).

[[Hunter of Black Feathers]] is good against any mono-Attribute Archetype - Agents, Sabers, Dark World, etc.

[[Infinite Dismissal]] against Plants.

[[Karakuri Klock]] works against Karakuri.

More to come.
[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 18:00, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

[[King Tiger Wanghu]] stops Mystical Shine Balls and destroys Earth, as well as destroying Kageki/Kagemusha/Elder (which cripples Six Samurai), destroys most X-Sabers, destroys Infernities (other than Archfiend), hurts Plants/Naturia, devastates Inzektor Wind-Ups, makes Treeborn Frog useless, etc.

Rescue Laggia is missing, [[Mirror of Oaths]], [[Smashing Horn]], and [[Bottomless Trap Hole]] are all effective side cards, as is [[Imperial Iron Wall]].

[[Snowman Eater]] is good against [[Miracle Gemini]].

[[Widespread Dud]] is bait against X-Sabers and Scraps that gets rid of their cards.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 19:04, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Made some modifications, more to come.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 19:26, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

:I think you meant [[Karakuri Trick House]].

:[[Rivalry of Warlords]] and [[Gozen Match]] are pretty good against Rabbit and Wind-Ups. [[D.D. Crow]] works okay against Wind-Ups and Inzektors if you can cut their loops short. They can go for Leviair if you mispredict and they're still holding Gallis or Spell Striker, though. [[Special:Contributions/24.199.53.194|24.199.53.194]] ([[User talk:24.199.53.194|talk]]) 21:14, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
== More cards to cripple Dragunities ==

Could you side in a [[Dark Highlander]] against a [[Dragunity]] deck since it stops all [[Synchro Summon]]s and can take out [[Equip Card]]s and burn for each?  Not to mention having a 2800 atk level 7 beatstick on the field[[User:Ja1lbreakr0cks|Ja1lbreakr0cks]] ([[User talk:Ja1lbreakr0cks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ja1lbreakr0cks|contribs]]) 17:20, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

== Newer Archetypes ==
Some I'm thinking of: <br>
<b>Rabbit:</b><br>
[[Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter]].<br>
[[Penguin Soldier]].<br>
[[Snowman Eater]], etc.<br>
Not many run Dolkka or try to get it out, most go for Laggia which is only really vulnerable to flip effect monsters or monsters already on the field.<br>
[[Summon Limit]], but it doesn't solve the first turn problem.<Br>
[[Overlay Owl]] but they would negate its summon anyway.<br>

<b>Inzektors:</b><br>
[[Effect Veiler]].<br>
[[D.D. Crow]].<br>
[[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]].<br>
[[Consecrated Light]] (only if they have no hornet equipped, so not that great).<br>
[[Necrovalley]] (not extremely good but decent).<br>
[[Safe Zone]] (they pop it they lose a monster, not amazing though).<br>
[[Fiendish Chain]].<br>
[[Chain Disappearance]].<br>

<b>Wind-Ups:</b><br>
[[Maxx "C"]].<br>
[[Effect Veiler]].<br>
[[D.D. Crow]]?<br>
[[Regenerating Mummy]] possibly, if they send it to the grave you add it back to your hand, they're likely to hit it constantly when the hand gets low. Not bad to draw into too.<br>
[[Neko Mane King]] possibly, if they hit it their turn ends, risky though, bad to draw into too. Could also be a side against Dark Worlds.<br>
Since these are a first turn deck at the moment I won't list cards that need to be already on the field.<br>

<b>Hieroglyphs: </b> <i>(I don't know much about these)</i><br>
[[Maxx "C"]].<br>
I'm not sure if [[Effect Veiler]] does much against them.<br>
[[Zombie World]], tribute summon quite a lot (although that might be tribute to summon), and it stops quite a few Dragon specific cards.<br>
[[Mask of Restrict]].<br>
[[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]], most of them are light.<br>
[[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]], it'd stop their REDMD.<br>
[[Summon Limit]], they spam a lot.<br>
[[King Tiger Wanghu]] since they spam 0 attack monsters quite often.<br>
Any negate special summon cards like [[Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo]].<br>

<b>Ninjas:</b> <br>
[[Thunder King Rai-Oh]], they add to the hand often.<br>
[[Effect Veiler]] can really hurt their [[Upstart Golden Ninja]].<br>
[[Royal Decree]] can hurt, but they don't really need [[Ninjitsu Art of Super-Transformation]] to run, Xyz spamming with dead traps would work almost as well.<br>
[[Warrior Elimination]], they don't spam much though.<br>

Any other new top tier(ish) archetype I'm forgetting?<br>
[[Special:Contributions/121.222.228.13|121.222.228.13]] ([[User talk:121.222.228.13|talk]]) 04:10, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Against Rabbits, you're better off with [[Spirit Reaper]], [[Arcana Force 0 - The Fool]], [[Marshmallon]], and, believe it or not, [[Wave-Motion Cannon]]. Dolkka can negate the Flip Effect monsters making them less useful. [[Lava Golem]] is also an insanely good side against them.

Hieroglyphs don't have to use REDMD, so strike Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror. Wanghu isn't very effective as they'll kill it with either an effect or by battle (their 0 attack monsters would come out after they've destroyed him). Leeching the Light is decent against Hieroglyphs as they have high ATK monsters.

For Ninjas, Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror isn't a bad side - it stops Tour Guide and Hanzo.
[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 14:19, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

:I completely forgot about Hanzo being dark. And why would [[Wave-Motion Cannon]] be a good side against rabbit? I'm not quite getting that. Is it because if they don't negate it they could get big damage, if they do they lose materials? Because if that's the case wouldn't cards like [[Smashing Ground]] or [[Dimensional Prison]] be better?[[Special:Contributions/123.211.144.181|123.211.144.181]] ([[User talk:123.211.144.181|talk]]) 08:11, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

If you watch !      Xcloud (some number of spaces) play on DN, you'll see that he sides everything against Rabbits. He does extremely well against Rabbits by siding in a bunch of wall monsters (The Fool, Reaper, Marshmallon) an Wave-Motion Cannon. If I'm not mistaken, they don't run a lot of Spell/Trap removal...[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 17:33, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I can see why the stall monsters would work. Their only real destruction cards would be [[Dark Hole]], maybe 1 or 2 [[Smashing Ground]] or [[Dimensional Prison]], and I don't think you'll be attacking much with the stall monsters. But [[Wave-Motion Cannon]] still seems iffy to me, Laggia can negate it if they wish, but I guess it'd make them think a bit more if they want to use those solemns that have set later too.[[Special:Contributions/123.211.144.181|123.211.144.181]] ([[User talk:123.211.144.181|talk]]) 08:18, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

They don't use a lot of backrow destruction and Laggia usually has better things to negate (and if they negate it, you're free to use Dark Hole or another good card).[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 13:45, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

What about [[Mask of Restrict]] for Hieratics? I feel as if it would be a > or + card on the above list, because most Hieratic plays and means of destroying cards come from tribute effects. [[Special:Contributions/108.196.206.15|108.196.206.15]] ([[User talk:108.196.206.15|talk]]) 14:27, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
:+ would be appropriate. It shuts down the engine, but like Macro Cosmos and Necrovalley it's vulnerable to Tefnuit -> A Wingbeat of Giant Dragon. [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 00:01, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

== Dino rabbits,Wind-up and Inzektors ==

This list should have sections for those 3 i have some cards : inzektors:
*necrovalley:stops dragonfly and others from equipping hornet from graveyard.
*d.d. Crow:when they try to get hornet from the grave,chain and LOL at their dragonfly unassisted
*different dimension ground:chain this to anything they use to dump hornet in grave.
*effect veiler:use to stop inzektors from equipping anything.
*macro cosmos:unlike dimensional fissure,this works on spells
[[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 16:03, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

:Having played Wind-Ups, I find it horribly injurious when the opponent springs a [[Bottomless Trap Hole]] on Zenmaity. Breaks the loop, leaves the Wind-Up player struggling for a turn. Oh, wait, do you guys still have the Priority ruling? Guess it won't work that way for the TCG. At least it still can be used on Shark.
:[[Effect Veiler]] is also particularly useful in defusing Zenmaity and Rat. Especially Rat, since they will be left with a monster with 600 ATK in Attack Position just asking to be beaten in.
--[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 14:06, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

In the list above, [[Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell]] is listed twice for Gravekeeper's (with different ratings of effectiveness). Also, how about [[Consecrated Light]] against Steelswarms and [[Royal Decree]] against Chain Burn? [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 18:57, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

::I just realized, [[Gozen Match]] and [[Rivalry of Warlords]] can both cripple Wind-Ups, right? [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 00:50, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

:::Yes, and they cripple Dino Rabbit as well. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  00:52, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

--[[Special:Contributions/68.41.75.225|68.41.75.225]] ([[User talk:68.41.75.225|talk]]) 08:55, April 2, 2012 (UTC)I have found Icy Crevice to be a interesting card to side agaisnt insector players. It will hurt them for playing hornet and has the potential to break up loops. In addition after its been played once the oppenent will begin to act more cautiously around single backfields. Just a card not widely expected that can throw insecktors off their game.
:If they shot your monster before shooting your back row, they are being silly. Which reminds me: "[[Wild Tornado]]" and "[[Security Orb]]".[[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 17:35, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

We need to update the table at the top for the current meta. Someone please do it. Its really accessible to all users and its a good list with good explanations.

[[User:Roughpuppet|Roughpuppet]] ([[User talk:Roughpuppet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Roughpuppet|contribs]]) 10:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
:With the recent changes to Ignition Priority (now "Fast Effect Timing", i.e. nonexistent for Ignition Effect Monsters), "[[Effect Veiler]]" becomes a viable side against Dino Rabbit. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 18:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

: For the record, I haven't played for a long time, I'm not sure about the current meta, or what to use against it.
: I've mentioned a couple of times that anyone can edit the list as long as they know what they're doing (follow proper table syntax); or post below if they're not sure about adding to the table.
: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 23:45, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

ok.. i'll get some small suggestions on the most common cards to use against the meta decks.

Dino-Rabbits  gozen/rivalry. different attibutes and types, rabbit being earth/beast. rest being dino/ earth or water or fire. Xyz monsters are dragon/fire.

effect veiler, post priority ruling, priority was able to cause it to use its effect before veiler so it was off the field before veiler activates. also useful to negate evolsar dollka if one feels like doing so. forces them to waste material.

chain disappearance, better post priority. similar reason to above, though it will leave the field first. Also able to use against tour guide, another staple against this deck.

spirit reaper/marshmallon, good stallking monster cards, do not activate, does not need to be normal or special summoned(set) thus cannot be negated when attacked. good stall card to stop them from beating you down.


Inzektors: shadow imprisoning, all dark, activate on field in order to control. not unlike reasons for infernity

macro cosmos, does not allow them to send hornet or any other equipped inzektor card to the graveyard. same thing as shadow imprisoning.

effect veiler, generally good at negating their effects of all monsters

chain disappearance, able to banish a dragonfly or hornet if they get summoned. stops their special summoning mechanic and causes them to not be able to swarm.

Wind-ups,  gozen/rivalry. all different types and attributes. no explanation needed

cyber dragon/chimeratech. wind-up XYZ cards are all machine type, thus a good card to counter. to zenmaines and zenmeity.

effect veiler. able to stop wind up loop during first turn loop

maxx C. negates the effects of wind up loop, by drawing more cards then they make you discard.



There are definitely more cards to side deck against these and other matchups but this is the general kick start to the big 3 decks this format. effect veiler may be a general card as people main deck it as well. but always good to mention.

other deck types inc darkworlds, heroes. main meta decks that have not been mentioned above.

[[User:Roughpuppet|Roughpuppet]] ([[User talk:Roughpuppet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Roughpuppet|contribs]]) 14:19, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, read the original comments Falzar made.<br>
"<b>Ignoring [[Staples]] as they are not Side Deck material.</b>"
Under [[Staples]]: <br>
Effect Monsters
*<u>Maxx C</u>
*<u>Effect Veiler</u><br>

:Perhaps Maxx "C" shouldn't be listed. But certain OTK Decks like [[Evil HERO Dark Gaia OTK|Dark Gaia OTK]] and [[Empty Jar]] will end the game if your opponent drops "[[Heavy Storm]]" or "[[Trap Stun]]" and you don't have Veiler. Maybe Glads or Zombies don't need Veiler against most things, but there are times when it's the only viable option. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 17:27, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

::But the thing is they're a main deck card where you side the rest, they aren't cards you'd side if you don't main them.<br>
::[[Special:Contributions/121.222.167.78|121.222.167.78]] ([[User talk:121.222.167.78|talk]]) 05:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, against Dino Rabbit, I would suggest side decking [[Black Ray Lancer]] and [[Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon]],not to mention [[Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon]], whose overwhelming effect can destroy any Dino decks. I would also recommend the forgotten [[Majestic Star Dragon]], who can destroy a Dino Rabbit deck in seconds
If you aren't maining Maxx "C"/Veiler you probably shouldn't be siding them either.<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 13:57, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
:Lancer and Galaxy-Eyes most likely won't make it to the field, and Lancer only has 2100 ATK anyways. "[[Majestic Star Dragon]]" is unlikely to land as well, and won't be around on your opponent's turn.
:What I meant about Veiler is that a Deck  which normally has no need for Veilers, is compelled to run them to protect itself from what would otherwise be an unpreventable OTK. Ancient history.
:"[[Trap Hole]]" works nicely against Inzektors, killing Dragonfly, Centipede, and Hopper. It doesn't hit Hornet, [[Inzektor Ladybug|Ladybug]] or DAD, but it can't be circumvented with Zektkaliber (unlike Veiler), a chained MST (unlike S-IM, [[Skill Drain]], [[Macro Cosmos]] and [[Fiendish Chain]]), and it's not a half-answer like [[BTH]]/[[Chain Disappearance]]. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 00:15, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

==A "Best of all worlds" list==

Is there any chance that we could get an ideal list of cards to side? Maybe rank the top 20 cards to side, in the order of their priority? Like, Light-Imprisoning Mirror can shut down Lightsworns, but aside from them and Hieratics, there's not much reason to side it. Conversely, Effect Veiler and Maxx "C" are listed as "effective" for their sections, yet they work against any and all decks. For people who need help quickly organizing a side deck to combat any and all threats, a small list of cards that are recommended for all side decks would be helpful, since while no one can tell you what cards you HAVE to put in your main deck, a side deck can always run the same 15 cards no matter what deck you use, and will almost always be just as effective. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 14:45, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

:The problem with this is what you should side changes quite constantly depending on the area and what's been used in big tournaments.
:Take some of the latest ones for example, people removed sides for Wind-Ups because they weren't doing well at all, no point siding against a deck that has such little showing when there's more important ones right? This in-turn let a few Wind-Up players top at a few tournaments which ofcourse made people start siding against them again.
:And then there's local tournaments where the meta may be GB's, GK's, Machina Gadgets, Lightsworn, etc.
:[[Special:Contributions/124.185.79.184|124.185.79.184]] ([[User talk:124.185.79.184|talk]]) 12:38, August 4, 2012 (UTC)

:Then just make a list of all purpose side cards. [[User:IPlay4Fun|IPlay4Fun]] ([[User talk:IPlay4Fun|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/IPlay4Fun|contribs]]) 15:05, August 5, 2012 (UTC)

:I like the idea, it could be useful to build a quick base to a side deck, which can then be slightly adjusted, depending on local meta and such. Cards like gozen match for example, hits not only wind-ups and rabbit, but can hit decks in lower tiers likely to be seen in local 'meta', such as GBs and Six-sams. Obviously if your local meta is straight dark worlds and insectors say, then you can customize the base to suit you (i.e. shadow-imprisoning etc) [[User:Chewbacca The Drummer|Chewbacca The Drummer]] ([[User talk:Chewbacca The Drummer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Chewbacca The Drummer|contribs]]) 17:37, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
::You can do this by sorting the table by Sided Card instead of Deck. At present, The End of Anubis has 9 entries, Chain Disappearance has 10 entries, Necrovalley has 13 entries, D.D. Crow has 14 entries, Skill Drain has 17 entries, D-Fissure has 18 entries, and Macro Cosmos top the list with 19 entries. [[Special:Contributions/98.148.148.43|98.148.148.43]] ([[User talk:98.148.148.43|talk]]) 16:03, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

==Tier Divisions==
I do not think the divisions on the [[Yu-Gi-Oh!_Tier_List|Tier List]] page should be applied to this page until the creators of that page come to a formal definition of what constitutes a "Tier". [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:49, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

==Suggestion==
I've noticed several side deck suggestions are designed to counter strategies that are now rendered obsolete due to said strategy being shut down by the banlist. For example, some cards suggested against Wind-Ups are brought up with the now-defunct Hunter loop in mind. I'm pretty sure the same will apply to several other tournament decks which were forced to change their playstyle after certain banlists are implemented. Should we remove suggestions that no longer apply? --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 04:54, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
:Absolutely. Also, I am dismayed to find that someone added "Tier" divisions to the list, again. Which is funny because some of these Decks don't even operate outside the OCG. Maybe I can understand why they seem official since we have a page about them, but there's no reason to have the Tier divisions if we include stuff that's common in the OCG but not here. Particularly amusing is "[[Madolche]]" in the "Tier 2" box when '''it's not even on the list'''. Can we get rid of them too? (And add some sides for Madolche, I guess.) [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 21:03, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Having this information in visual form would really help. I don't have much experience with it so I'm not really able to help in that regard. A Venn diagram maybe?
:I mostly want to eliminate seeing the same card, good against more than one deck, written twice.[[Special:Contributions/72.89.194.84|72.89.194.84]] ([[User talk:72.89.194.84|talk]]) 14:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

== Dragon Rulers ==

I really think you should add some good cards to side in against the new Dragon Ruler Archetype. Cards that come to mind are Gozen Match and Mind Drain. [[Special:Contributions/24.8.106.176|24.8.106.176]] ([[User talk:24.8.106.176|talk]]) 23:39, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

:Not only the Dragon Rulers, the list also needs to have cards against "[[Prophecy]]"/"[[Spellbook]]" and "[[Evilswarm]]" Decks. --[[User:Missign0|Missign0]] ([[User talk:Missign0|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missign0|contribs]]) 02:27, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I don't really know if I'm doing this right and if not Im sorry. But a few good cards that I have found to work against them would be (for example)
'''Effect Monsters:'''
Battle Fader: Free no battle phase on direct attack and useable with backrow unlike gorz 
Trifortressops: 2800 ('''''starting''''') defense means no killing it with blasterfor a turn 
Swift Scarecrow: Usable with Macro/D Fiss on the field as it doesn't say "to the grave" 
Grand Mole: Bounce back drago sac as it doesnt destroy (**vunerable to d prison/other battle traps though) 
Veiler +Maxx c: Assuming no macro Veiler either A. Stops big eye, B. Stops Dragosac from making tokens. Either one is a good thing
Droll & Lock Bird: Prevents adding other dragons AND super Rejuv ((I think [http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1130887] ?))
(when it comes out JOTL ((Same as key beetle)) Flying "c" :When your opponnent special summons a monster summon this to their field. They can not xyz (but it is an earth lv 1 so they could still do some synchro shenanigans with it)
(Maybe) Cyber dragon + Chimeratech (at the minimum it would have 3 k attack from the cy dra, dragosac, and 1 token (assuming they poped with it. If not then you got a 4 k chim, that even if warned they 1. Lost drago and tokens and 2. Wasted their only solemn (judg/warn) **CAUTION** do not rely on this because it ''will '''NOT''''' work with macro on the field as chimera says grave specifically

'''Synchro Monsters'''
Crimson Blader: Kill token, eff goes off, ???, Proffit

'''Magic''' (Uhh, I havent really seen any that could work but maybe):
Messenger of peace: Either A. Makes them force a pop, B. Force them to use a lance to attack (IF they even run it. Which is doubtful). And if A. Then you just saved your other back row or monsters (granted to be popped by other monsters but still)
System Down: Only useful for dragosac as it doesnt destroy so it bypasses his natural token protection
One day of Peace: Gives you a turn to stall and take no damage but gives them a card too
Forbidden Dress: Universal destruction protection but attack lose is a pain (mostly to ophion)

'''Trap'''
Gozen Match/Rivalry: Both do the same thing essentially but both for different things. Gozen is more of a hard hitter as it prevents them from going into the double dragon instant xyz plays, but it could allow crimson blader in one VERY specific circumstance (Blaster + Flamvel Guard)
SUmmon Limit: Stops them from either 1. Getting the instant xyz or 2. Summoning the tokens (depending if they ''somehow'' '''Bold text'''had a lv 7 already on field)
Imperial Iron Wall: Just stops banishing. Brilliant
[[User:Windwolf777|Windwolf777]] ([[User talk:Windwolf777|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Windwolf777|contribs]]) 11:57, June 28, 2013 (UTC)


my opinion is
for against evilswarm, if u are synchro based deck, u can use [[Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction]] or [[Gem-Knight Pearl]] for a start. if your deck spell & trap are  mostly destroy/ targeting  opponents monster type ( not monster destroyer like Dark armed dragon ), try to change swap cards like mirror force to increase attack power like [[Horn of the Phantom Beast]] ( refer to your deck ). this was based on assuming that evilswarm users are ophion 1 turn lover and relied too much on their immunity [[Infestation Pandemic]]. easy win is to use cards like [[Meklord Army of Granel]] or grandmole. too lazy ? why don't use [[Flying "C"]] ?

not much to say about dragons lord from me. gozen match, using compulsory, maxx c, [[Chimeratech Fortress Dragon]] ( drago-sack and it's token are machine ).

can't say anything about spellbook cuz the one i fough before in real life is one without using extra deck ( and i don't know which style is the top tier or very strong ) [[User:Gemini 93|Gemini 93]] ([[User talk:Gemini 93|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gemini 93|contribs]]) 14:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)