Forum:Spell counter rulings

If I have a monster that requiers spell counters, like Skill dark magician but he has 0 counters and I have magical citadel of endymion with 10 counters. Can I remove 3 counters from the field card with skill having 0 counters?

and with breaker the magical warrior can I do the same or the monster must have the counters already to remove from him?? — This unsigned comment was made by MobiusxXx (talk • contribs) 16:02, January 24 2010 (UTC)

I think you need to read the cards over again, carefully this time.

Magical citadel of endymion - Once per turn, if you would activate a card's effect by removing a Spell Counter(s) from cards you control, you can remove Spell Counters from this card instead.

Skilled dark magician - You can Tribute this card with 3 Spell Counters on it to Special Summon 1 "Dark Magician" from your hand, Deck, or Graveyard.

Breaker the magical warrior - You can remove 1 Spell Counter from this card to destroy 1 Spell or Trap Card on the field.

Can you see the odd card out of those three? Yes, it's Skilled dark magician. His effect says TRIBUTE, and breaker effect says REMOVE spellcounters. Magical Citadel effect says REMOVE spellcounters.

So, no you can't do that with skilled dark Magician. Yes you can use Magical citadel of endymion effect with Breaker effect since you can subsitute the spellcounters from him to the field spell. 71.156.35.34 18:27, January 24, 2010 (UTC)J.T-BAG

Okay, I can subsitute for breaker...but breaker must have the spell counter him self to remove from citadel or can I use the effect of breaker with 0 counters and remove from citadel insted?

Straight from Card Rulings:Magical Citadel of Endymion

When a card like "Breaker the Magical Warrior" or "Magical Marionette" has no Spell Counters on it, you can activate its effect and remove the Spell Counter(s) from "Magical Citadel of Endymion" instead. Falzar FZ 01:29, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Magical Citadel of Endymion

When a Magical Citadel of Endymion is active on the field and it has at least 5 spell counters for example, what will happen if the opponent activates another field spell card? Can I remove one spell counter from Magical Citadel of Endymion to prevent it from being destroyed and send my opponent's field spell card to the graveyard? Or the Magical Citadel of Endymion will be sent to the graveyard even though its effect prevents it from being destroyed?

• When a new Fiel Spell Card is activated, the previous is destroyed by game mechanics. Magical Citadel of Endymion's effect can only be applied when it's going to be destroyed by a card's effect, not by game mechanics, so it cannot protect itself when a new Field Spell Card is activated. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 18:47, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

if i tribute skilled dark magician with three spell counters on it, does my citadel get his counters?— This unsigned comment was made by 99.97.209.253 (talk • contribs)

• On Talk Pages and Forum Pages, you're supposed to sign your posts. You can do that by adding four tildes (~~~~) to the end of your post and it will automatically create a signature for you when you click 'Save page'.

"When a card with a Spell Counter(s) is destroyed, place its Spell Counters on this card."

Tribute ≠ Destroy. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 22:49, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Effect within the counter?

Searching for the rules, I found not a hint in any of the spell counter areas.

Am I correct in assuming that placing spell counter(s) on card(s) for it's/their own effect(s) that states that it shall receive a spell counter(s) for a spell card(s) being activated (or for it's own effect when it is summoned) is an activated effect that can be chained to?

{Example- Defender summoned, activates effect, Bottomless Trap Hole chains & no counter is placed} [Another problem crops up- what if I chain Pitch Black Power Stone; can I activate Defenders effect as chain link 4 or will it happen outside of the chain & thus not be able to activate?]

More importantly: is the removal of the counter(s) for an effect considered a cost to activate the other effect? I have been playing that the removal of the counter(s) is a cost to activate other effects, so the removal of said counter(s) can be chained to/negated if I am not mistaken.

(Example- Breaker removes counter to destroy a spell or trap, Curse of Royal chains to negate & destroy} [Another problem crops up: what if I use my Defender to keep Breaker alive, will Breakers destroy effect still work or has it been negated, & if so does it still have it's counter for re-use?]

Is this the correct assumption; or would my friends arguments that once the counter is placed, the effect is in the counter alone & when removed is not considered activating an effect; & while you can chain to the placement of the counter, you cannot chain to the removal? This sounds fishy to me.

~≈DD≈~

In general, placing a Spell Counter starts a Chain Link.

However, for cards like "Magical Marionette" or "Tower of Babel", you place a Spell Counter immediately after the Spell Card finishes resolving, even in between Chain Links. (In general) you can't start a Chain Link while starting a Chain, so the effect is a Continuous Effect that doesn't start a Chain Link.

"Pitch-Black Power Stone" is REALLY weird, and places Spell Counters on itself at activation -- that is, when you first flip it face-up. Don't think too much about it.

"Defender, the Magical Knight"'s effect is also a Continuous Effect; you apply it while resolving the other effect. So:

• Chain Link 1: "Defender, the Magical Knight" (the effect to gain a Spell Counter)
• Chain Link 2: "Bottomless Trap Hole"

(resolve)

• Chain Link 2: Right now, if you had a Spell Counter on the field, then you would apply "Defender, the Magical Knight"'s effect. Assuming that you don't, "Bottomless Trap Hole" destroys "Defender, the Magical Knight".
• Chain Link 1: (Resolves without effect.)

But:

• Chain Link 1: "Defender, the Magical Knight" (the effect to gain a Spell Counter)
• Chain Link 2: "Bottomless Trap Hole"
• Chain Link 3: "Pitch-Black Power Stone". Right now, place the three Spell Counters.

(resolve)

• Chain Link 3: "Pitch-Black Power Stone" resolves. Um, it doesn't do much right now. Wave hi, "Pitch-Black Power Stone"!
• Chain Link 2: Right now, you choose whether or not you use "Defender, the Magical Knight"'s effect. There are Spell Counters on the field now (the ones on "Pitch-Black Power Stone"), so you can remove one of those. Assuming you do, "Bottomless Trap Hole" doesn't destroy anything, and doesn't remove anything.
• Chain Link 1: "Pitch-Black Power Stone" gets a Spell Counter.

For your second question, in general, removing Spell Counters is a cost. If "Breaker the Magical Warrior"'s effect is negated by (for example) "Light and Darkness Dragon", then you don't get the Spell Counter back.

Also, if "Defender, the Magical Knight" prevents the destruction, then the effect is still negated. Cards like "Curse of Royal" or "Divine Wrath" don't need to destroy the monster -- it'll still negate the effect, even if it can't destroy it. For example, see the rulings on "Divine Wrath" vs. monsters whose effects activate in the Graveyard; you can't destroy monsters in the Graveyard, but "Divine Wrath" can still negate their effects.

Lastly, note that "Curse of Royal" can only negate Spells and Traps. It can't negate monster effects. You can see it on the card's Errata page.

--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 02:01, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

Continuous spells: Activate vs. Trigger

According to the Spell Counter rulings,

"When you use the effect of a Continuous Spell Card that is already face-up on the field, such as "Inspection", or sending "Wave-Motion Cannon" to the Graveyard, or paying for "Messenger of Peace", you do NOT place a Spell Counter on this monster"

which is understandable for a Continuous Spell with an effect that is always active, like Convulsion of Nature. However, I noticed that the cited reference for this ruling was

"Individual Card Rulings for "Skilled Dark Magician" and "Skilled White Magician"."

I was on the page for Royal Magical Library at the time, and noticed the Card Tip that read

"Combine this card with "Heart of the Underdog" to create a powerful if not almost infinite draw engine if you have 3 "Heart of the Underdog" in play. This would be great for an exodia deck."

So, for cards other than Skilled Dark Magician and Skilled White Magician that use Spell Counters, if a face-up Continuous Spell with an effect that is triggered and isn't constantly active (like Heart of the Underdog, but unlike Convulsion of Nature) has its effect triggered, can a card not specified in the aforementioned ruling (such as Royal Magical Library) receive a Spell Counter? ISmartMan (talk • contribs) 17:11, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

those cards always state "when a spell card is activated you place a counter". It states not, that the effect of a spell card is enough, so they will not gain counters for heart of the underdog or such things except when they are placed on the field (that means: activated). -dest- (talk • contribs) 20:35, December 29, 2010 (UTC)