Talk:Tuner monster

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if the condition of being a tuner monster, its not a effect; can you still making synchro summon whit a tuner monster that has turned into a equip card? (ex: Magna Drago being used by a cyberdark card) --201.161.26.121 01:40, March 24, 2010 (UTC)Hairo

Why don't we have a page for a list of all tuner monsters?

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We shouldn't need one. We need to find a simpler way for people to use the Semmantic Search. Here's a list of all OCG/TCG Tuner monsters using the Semmantic Search. -- Deltaneos (talk) 11:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

With todays episode it looks like titles would be have to be added differenciating the normal tuner monster form the new Dark Tuner monsters as well as for Dark Synchro Summoning since from what it was shown the rules are totaly different!!

Effect Tuners

There are Tuner monters that are Normal Monsters, so shouldn't Tuners with effects like Junk Synchron have [Type/Tuner/Effect] instead of [Type/Tuner] labeled on their card. This bothers me personally.67.81.92.54 16:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, it bothers me as well. It appears that this is because secondary type labels (Spirit, Toon, Union, Gemini, and Tuner) replace the word "Effect," quite possibly because all of these cards were initially Effect Monsters that had standardized effects, ie. all "Spirit" monsters had the same effect, all "Toon" monsters had the same effect etc. After "breaking" the standards with the introduction of secondary type monsters with different effects, and some without effects at all (Normal Monstes), I guess it seemed too late to do anything about the labels. The good news is that the "Effect" label is useless anyway, since Effect Monsters are easily identifiable by the orange card color. Its only remaining usefulness is probably to note Effect Ritual, Fusion, and Synchro monsters, which have the corresponding color of their Card Type rather than Effect Monsters' orange. -- Melik el-Al'ab 18:08, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Rename

I wonder if it would be worth the trouble to rename the page to "Tuner monster". That's how the cards refer to them, and it's how the manual of style says to refer to them. We'd need to change the Toon, Gemini, and Spirit pages as well. And the majority of the links to the pages. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 21:53, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

This is already planned for all of them; it's just that no one has actually gone and done it yet. Feel free to start on it if you'd like (Union and Dark Tuner also need to be done, and probably Armor (though I haven't looked too closely at that yet)). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 22:30, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Was this decided upon in the forum? I didn't see. (And I forgot to put "etc." after "Spirit", I knew there were more. ^_^) Would it be feasible to have a bot fix redirects? Because the vast majority of links for to these pages use a capital "M". --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 22:49, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's been discussed in a few places - both in the forum and on Deltaneos' talk page - though I can't really recall any particular page the discussion was on.

Bot link fixing would be pretty trivial; Falzar may be willing to add it to his list of current changes, since he's running his bot ATM anyways. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 02:51, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

So we want Armor monster, Dark Tuner monster, Gemini monster, Limit Over Accel Synchro monster, Spirit monster, Toon monster, Tuner monster, Union monster; and that is the full list right?

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:31, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I believe so, Falzar, and thank you. I hope you all weren't waiting for me; renamed Toon monster, Dark Tuner monster, Limit Over Accel Synchro monster and and Union monster, but admins are needed for the rest, since they have histories. :) --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 13:09, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Got the rest moved. Now for the ancillary pages... 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:25, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

On cards, Gemini monster is sometimes Monster (Raptinus), and Union monster is (almost) always Monster. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:20, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, never noticed the cards aren't perfectly consistent. For Unions, "Delta Tri" uses monster, but the others use Monster. Should majority rule? --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 01:50, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

not sure.

And move (and categorise) Accel Synchro Monster/Accel Synchro monster?

Also, I won't change Gemini and Union yet, until further discussion. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:41, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

I'll use bin2.pac from WC11 (dinoguy should know this) to search this. It's not flawless, but it should be much more accurate than the card lores here. And faster.

This is the appearance of the phrase, not the card type. Multiple appearances on the same card counts as 1 times.

Gemini monster = 10, Gemini Monster = 1 (Raptinus)

Spirit monster = 5, Spirit Monster = 0

Toon monster = 0, Toon Monster = 10

Tuner monster = 102, Tuner Monster = 2 (Mind Trust, Tuner Capture) (Also, WC10 Glossary just calls it Tuner, without monster)

Union monster = 1 (Delta Tri), Union Monster = 17

Flip Effect monster = 0, Flip Effect Monster = 6

Normal monster = 0, Normal Monster = 49

Effect monster = 0, Effect Monster = 97

Fusion monster = 0, Fusion Monster = 33

Ritual monster = 1 (Forbidden Arts of the Gishki [non-TCG]), Ritual Monster = 17

Synchro monster = 3 (Speed Spell - Deceased Synchron [non-TCG], Synchro Blast Wave, Synchro Gift [says non-]), Synchro Monster = 37

Token monster = 1 (Virus Cannon [says non-]), Token Monster = 0, Monster Token = 1 (Insect Queen, and also WC10 Glossary calls it this)

Maybe someone should check what the rulings that Konami TCG (from the source, not rulings here) has made (or their main pages on the site) and see if the trend fits that?-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:44, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) With the exception of Spirit monsters and a few random ones, the "m" used to always be capital, but was changed to lower just before Tuner monsters came out as far as I know. Only 1 Union and 0 Toon I think can be credited to the cards not being reprinted since the capitalisation change. That's interesting about the "non-". Would you be able to get a full list of cards that use "non-"? The TCG rulebook also uses Monster Token. The article here even used to be called Monster Tokens. It was back when the card table template was being designed to work for all types of cards that we decided to move it to make it consistent with all the other types of monsters, all of which were {{{typeX}}} Monsters. -- Deltaneos (talk) 00:10, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Toon Dark Magician Girl Gold Series 4 (the only Toon reprint) still says Toon Monster.

Backup Soldier - non-Effect Monsters

White Elephant's Gift - non-Effect Monster

Gaia Drake, the Universal Force - non-Effect Synchro Monster

Virus Cannon - non-Token monsters

Splendid Venus - non-Fairy-Type monsters

Queen of Thorns - non-Plant-Type monster

Thunder Nyan Nyan - non-LIGHT monster

Ally of Justice Catastor - non-DARK monster

Ally of Justice Thousand Arms - non-LIGHT monster

Synchro Gift - Synchro Monster, non-Synchro monster

Scrap Dragon - non-Synchro "Scrap" monster

Atomic Scrap Dragon - non-Synchro "Scrap" monster

Scrap Twin Dragon - non-Synchro "Scrap" monster

Whenever it's Effect, it's Monster. Else, monster. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:19, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

So, do we use "Toon Monster" and "Union Monster" because the cards say so, or not? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 06:27, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Hadn't forgot about this, just couldn't think of a solution. :)

I guess we should keep "Toon Monster" and "Union Monster", mentioning on its page that Union Monsters have (on one card) also been referred to as "Union monsters". This follows the cards, which should take priority over anything else. There were 2 Union Monsters released in the Machina Structure Deck, so if Konami wanted it to be "monster", it would have been "monster". --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 14:16, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Can we go by the Gold Series 4 "Toon Dark Magician Girl"? That set doesn't seem to have updated its cards to the most recent text patterns at the time. e.g. "Toon Table of Contents" says Add 1 card from your Deck to your hand that includes "Toon" in its card name, or is named "Manga Ryu-Ran"., which is very outdated wording. Granted, it could have been to avoid confusion between a Toon monster and a "Toon" monster, but even at that there are other parts of the text that could have been updated. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:52, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Sure thing is that all Tuner, Union, Spirit, ect monsters must be written either as "monsters" or "Monsters". We can't have both "Union Monsters" and "Tuner monsters". In my opinion it would be better if we rename them all with upper case M (Union Monsters, ect), regardless if some cards' texts mention them as "monsters".

Btw, (of topic), I don't understand why the text of "Toon Table of Contents" is that much outdated? It is written that way so it can add also non-Toon Monster "Toon" cards to the hand as well, like "Toon Alligator", "Toon World" and "Toon Defense".

ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 01:06, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with what it says the card does. It's just not following the simplified text patterns that started with Power of the Duelist. If the cards' texts had been updated in Gold Series 4, it should have read something like Add 1 "Toon" card or "Manga Ryu-Ran" from your Deck to your hand. -- Deltaneos (talk) 17:54, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

My point being, Gold Series 4 didn't upgrade its cards to the most recent text patterns at the time, so the "Toon Dark Magician Girl" using Toon Monster rather than Toon monster doesn't necessarily mean Konami have chosen not to lowercase the "m" for Toon monsters. -- Deltaneos (talk) 18:05, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

ATEM was saying that "Toon Alligator" is not a Toon monster

By saying "Add 1 "Toon" card" means you can add "Toon Alligator", which you cannot do.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:10, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, you can add "Toon Alligator" to the hand with the effect of "Toon Table of Contents". I just didn't understand what Deltaneos meant with "very outdated wording". He is correct though, the text could be written better, like "Add 1 "Toon" card or "Manga Ryu-Ran" from your Deck to your hand". "Toon" card doesn't mean a Toon monster, but a card with "Toon" in its name. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 08:41, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Er, yea, I meant something in the lines of, if "Toon Alligator" is attacked, then Toon Defense cannot be used. Also, players can easily misread "Toon" Monster with Toon Monster. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 08:48, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Tuner Normal Monsters

Why has the article Tuner Normal Monsters been removed? I think that they are a class of monsters relevant enough to have their own article, they have almost as many members as Synchro Tuner Monsters and they have had new members being released lately. I don't understand why they don't have their own article, considerate it please. Thank you. --Feder373 (talk • contribs) 10:25, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

"Tuner Synchro Monster" appears explicitly at a card's effect text. (e.g., "Limit Overdrive"). Normal Tuner monsters and Effect Tuner monsters are not differentiated in any way, besides that they are either Normal Monsters or Effect Monsters, respectively. There is no particular reason to start an article for each one of them. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 12:05, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Are you trying to say that there isn't any difference between a Tuner Effect and a Normal Monster? Your point doesn't convince me, especially when an article dedicated to Tuner Normal Monsters existed until some time ago. I think that at least there should be a separated category for them to find them easier. --Feder373 (talk • contribs) 23:14, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. I believe you would like to have page where you could search only the Normal Tuner Monsters, is that it? The way that comes to mind to search for them currently, would be going to List of Normal Monsters and sort by "Monster subtype".

There used to be an article page for them only?

And we are currently looking for a better way to organize the category/type of the cards, to facilitate searching. But it's something that takes its time. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 23:36, July 4, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I remember that there was an article page for Tuner Normal Monsters, and in wikis of other languages that article and a category for them still exists. That isn't practical, since there are thousands of Normal Monsters, and very few Tuners. Yes, I think that a category for them only would be great to facilitate searching. Anyway, thanks for listening to my suggestion. --Feder373 (talk • contribs) 10:05, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

There's no record of a page called "Tuner Normal Monster" being deleted. Do you know the exact title of the page, when it was deleted or any pages that used to link to it? -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:54, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Sure? Oh, maybe I thought this wiki had it because in other languages ygo wikis I read it more than once. I might assumed that I also read that article in this wiki. If it has ever been deleted, it must have been in the last year. Existed or not, I think that creating a page with a list of all Tuner Normal Monsters would be useful and appreciated by duelists. --Feder373 (talk • contribs) 10:40, July 6, 2016 (UTC)