Talk:Yugipedia/Archive 2

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Wiki Improvement Ideas

I've taken a short look around the wiki and noted a few things that could be improved (^_^ of course I'm willing to help somewhat with fixing them); I signed in all the sections and left a line in between them so you can feel free responding inline just indenting another level from me.

Forums
I see that this wiki has an external forum. However it is not easily known, and it only has a grand total of 1 topic with 2 posts and only 2 registered users to discuss things. It's always good to have a place to discuss the general things about the wiki other than the Main Page's Talkpage. There are 2 options that work here on Wikia; The old DPL Forums, and the new phpBB Forums. Both of them are enabled for use with WikiText (So you can actually use an internal link which works locally when you are discussing a page), and both of them use a user's already existing user account so people don't need to log in to 2 locations with 2 different accounts just to discuss the wiki. And the phpBB still has the feel of being a real forum. You can see the DPL Forums in use on central at w:Forum:Index and the new phpBB Forums on Inside and Runescape (here and here). It's quite possible to set up either of these systems for use here. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 02:52 (UTC)
Main Page
Blatantly put the Main Page is extremely large, crowded (code wise and visually), unorganized, and definitely needs improvement. There are a few interesting ideas to fix them:
  • Wikia has a new TabView Extension that one of the Techs created. It's possible to separate the Main Page's areas by tabs, that way instead of scrolling around the Main Page you can flick through tabs to the section that you actually want.
    • Another note about this Tab System, is that it can actually do AJAX requests for tabs. So it's possible for it to only load one tab on the page load, and load the other tabs when people need them. With that being the case, the large main page wouldn't be loaded unless the person wanted all of it.
  • It's also possible to split up all of the Main Page into other pages. So only the layout is located on the Main Page. That way the page code is easier to read and edit. It also means that if a large vandal attack comes by it's possible to protect the Main Page without removing the ability to edit it because the individual parts can still be edited by everyone. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 02:52 (UTC)
Ruby
Using the ruby markup is an interesting idea for putting out readable Japanese characters. But looking over the support of it... It's not a proper standard yet and I checked the 4 major browser rendering engines (Rendering Engines are what determine how a Browser displays something, so even though IE and AOL are 2 different browsers, they use the same engine so they render the same...) One natively supports it, one needs an extension installed to work, and the other 2 don't support it at all. In fact, if you're running on a mac, you need to install a browser and and extension just to be able to see the ruby text. Which means that the fair fraction of users who could quite possibly be reading from a School Mac which only has Safari and they do not have the ability to install Firefox and add an Extension to it can't properly read the site. Remember that wikis should be readable by all people without unfair or favored standards.
Then to add onto that, the <rbc></rbc> and <rtc></rtc> tags are not supported. So a bad form of syntax is used here. This bad syntax works bad for selecting. If you go to Sparks in either Firefox with the Extension or IE (Though it's easier to notice in Firefox cause IE doesn't show you the problem as well) when you try to select just the base text, or the ruby text you can't properly select them and copy them, it tries to copy the other text and ends up screwing it all up.
And finally, the code is long, and hard to read. It messes up the readability of the WikiText and makes it harder to read and write the Japanese text when there's a mistake in it.
But, I'm not saying to completely ditch the idea of using something that has as nice a presentational output as ruby. In fact, I think it can be improved even more. I'm part of Wikia's Volunteer Tech team (^_^ Fancy way of saying I have active contact with Wikia's Techs, and access to the Development server Wikia set up for Volunteers to help contribute code, but can't do anything about actually fixing a bug in a Wiki... lol), and I'm quite familiar with MediaWiki. It should be possible to create a nice extension that will make it easy and intuitive to add the presentational features of Ruby to code... And also make it so that it will display whether or not a person has a browser setup which supports the Ruby text.
In fact, instead of typing this:
<ruby><rb>火</rb><rp>(</rp><rt>ひ</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>の<ruby><rb>粉</rb><rp>(</rp><rt>こ</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>
It could be possible to type something like this:
<simpleruby><base>火の粉</base><ruby>ひ こ</ruby></simpleruby>
And have it output something that uses ruby when the person has a ruby enabled browser, and also have a fallback that still renders the same even when in a browser which does not support ruby.
I'd be happy to discuss the syntax, create the extension, and have the Techs install it on Wikia. In fact, it's probably the type of extension that would fit nicely on MediaWiki.org's list of extensions and have a place installed globally on Wikia for other wiki to use. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 02:52 (UTC)
I drafted up a comparison of possible output formats here with details on them. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 05:18 (UTC)
I've done some more research into ruby, and there's an interesting style sheet that may help. The more advanced features of Ruby markup aren't supported, but the CSS basically makes ruby markup render correctly in all browsers. The markup used needs to be fixed up and written correctly (if you use it in Opera when people mix ruby tags with normal text it has some bad results) So we can still output ruby without forcing users to install some extension for Firefox or use IE. But we use WikiTables to make tables easier to read and use, the * ; : and # give us simple lists and indents, etc... So I still feel that a extension to give ruby a more intuitive interface should be created. So I'd like to discuss ideas for the markup that could be used. Remember a few things; WikiText does not require that everything be XML markup. So unlike in HTML we can give a more visual feel to the code used to create the ruby text. Here are a few ideas because my previous one has a few issues to it. These ideas just place a set of syntax in between two <simpleruby></simpleruby> tags. Everything placed in between those will be handled by the extension as MediaWiki normally dictates. So what type of markup or whatever we use inside could be anything, plain text or markup based without having issues.
In this idea we give it a multi-line feel. The top line will be used as the ruby text, and the lower line will be the base. Using |'s separates the characters so that multiple ruby text characters can be used for one of the ones below. As shown in the examples, we can ignore whitespace at the start and end so that we can still line things up.
<simpleruby>
ひ| |こ
火|の|粉
</simpleruby>
In this idea we write out the text, and place the ruby text inside of [brackets], we could use (brackets) though if we want, but remember that this in input, not output. The markup could use another set of brackets if we wanted them to. Or we could simply state in the extension that anything inside of brackets such as (), [], {}, or <> should be the ruby-text for a ruby base outside. Although it does work for multi-character ruby-texts, it may need markup tweaks to work for multiple character ruby-bases.
<simpleruby>火[ひ]の粉[こ]</simpleruby>
Or going with the bracket scheme, ruby-bases could be placed inside of [square brackets] with ruby-texts inside of (round braces). Characters without braces would be treated as normal characters, but still rendered inside of ruby markup so that they don't end up lined up differently. It's a little longer and less viewable, but it does support multi-character ruby-bases.
<simpleruby>(火)[ひ]の(粉)[こ]</simpleruby>
Remember with these that it is also possible to use mode or other attribute in the XML tag around them to make it so that multiple type of syntaxes can be used. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 12:07 (UTC)
Wiki Customization
Judging by the few edits to the MediaWiki: namespace (The sidebar isn't even customized), the out of date Show/Hide (that CSS isn't even needed anymore), the fact that Monobook.(js|css) is used instead of Common.(js|css) where it should be, that the site's JS is hotlinking to Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects and contains useless code (^_^ And also says Wikipedia in the Tooltips in the CSS page containing JS), and the fact that there is JavaScript on a CSS page O_o, that there is no-one in this project which has much experience with customizing MediaWiki or working with JavaScript or CSS.
I'd be happy to fix various things. Such as migrating JS to where it belongs, adding up to date scripts that work correctly, etc... ^_^ I could even customize the skins for the wiki and give it a nice color-scheme. Also, the EditTools are a little tall, I have a script used in Wikia ACG which gives the ability for a user to collapse the inside of the EditTools box and that'll persist across pages for them. I could install that here to. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 02:52 (UTC)
Images
Some of the images, such as Image:Dark.gif are of fairly low quality. I do know of a good SVG artist, if you want I could request that he create some Free licensed images which will look better than those, be able to scale up without lowering quality, and won't cause the issue of a having poorly rationale use of Fair use which probably wouldn't stand up in a court. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 16, 2007 @ 02:52 (UTC)


Response to Wikia Improvement Ideas

Hope you don't mind I copied&pasted your sig into the individual sections so they can be used for individual discussion. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 05:19 (UTC)

Forums

I'd be very happy to have a phpBB installation local to this Wikia.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, when I see TOR_CNR on IRC I'll point him to that message and have him enable it for use here. (TOR_CNR is the tech team member who normally shows up in IRC and handles things like this.) ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 05:19 (UTC)
I notified TOR_CNR, but it looks like you'll half to wait a bit until they fix a bug in the forums that makes permissions not work right. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 18:44 (UTC)

Main Page

I'm open to anything that can reduce the size of it, while providing easy access to the information contained therein. If you're willing to explain how the TabView functionality works, I'm sure a few of us can lend a hand.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, since you like the idea I'll look up the TabView syntax and start to draft a new Main Page as a subpage. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 05:19 (UTC)
It appears that the TabView extension that the Tech team member created only does AJAX stuff, so it's not fallback safe if someone doesn't have JavaScript. But since it's all JS, I could easily create a TabView system that works kinda like how the Show/Hide works. I actually made one before using the same YUI that Wikia is using, it just needs some tweaks because I made that one actually dynamically load the YUI scripts needed. Wikia loads them all at once. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 18:44 (UTC)

Ruby

It wasn't my idea to use it, but I classed it as acceptable. True, it's not an open standard (Firefox lacking native support for it, for example), however I did recall reading it's being incorporated in Firefox with it's next major release.

If you can develop an extension to install across Wikia, I have a feeling we wouldn't be the only ones to benefit.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, when the phpBB Forum is installed I'll start a thread for discussing the syntax for it. I'll also try to incorporate the CSS file that enables ruby in most browsers into the extension. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 05:19 (UTC)

Wikia Customization

This Wikia was created before Monobook.css was made obsolete, I was only recently informed when looking at MetaWiki. As for the customizing the sidebar, I tried once when this Wikia was created, failed, and haven't attempted since. Any help on that is appreciated.

As for tossed up/obsolete code in Common.css/js, again, I'd be appreciative of any help that can be given there. The show/hide code I'd actually like to isolate, and have it easily copyable for use elsewhere (I have another project which would benefit from it). With Edittools, I'd appreciate any improvement to it.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, we could look over the css and js to see what's there that you actually want. As for the Show/Hide Wikia ACG actually keeps it in a isolated location. Anime:MediaWiki:ShowHide.js, that one is actually an upgraded version which works for spans and fieldsets in addition to the normal divs. (span for inline show/hide, and fieldset so special pages can use them if coded to) Though I'll probably need sysop to change anything. I can customize the sidebar for you, first thing I'll probably do is add a link to the new forum when it's setup. Actually, take a look at the sidebar used on the Animepedia, Narutopedia and a few of the other Wikia ACG projects, we use a sort of Sitename/Community type sidebar which splits up things which readers are interested in, with things that are useful to the editors. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 05:19 (UTC)
Thanks for the Sysop flag, I'll look over the stuff later and clean out what's not needed and fix some stuff up. Feel free to ask me for any special thing you want done with the CSS/JS. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 18:44 (UTC)
Not that I'm actually contributing anything to this conversation, but I felt compelled to point out that Monobook.css was never rendered obsolete by Common.css (and are you sure you actually mean Monobook.css? Common.css has been a part of the MediaWiki software since at least version 1.6; Common.js, however, wasn't added until version 1.9... but I digress). Common.css and Common.js contain CSS and JS code that applies across the whole wiki, regardless of a user's current skin settings, whereas Monobook.css and Monobook.js only apply when the user has the Monobook skin selected. --Dinoguy1000 What?I did it! 01:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Skinname.js(ie: Monobook.js) is the one that was made obsolete by Common.js, it's depreciated because all you need to add is if( skin == 'monobook' ) {...} inside of Common.js to do anything that you would only want in Monobook.js. Use of a Skinname.js is depreciated by the developers cause they hope to remove that page in future versions. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Oct 20, 2007 @ 03:28 (UTC)
Oh, okay, thanks for pointing that out... Just shows how much I have yet to learn about the MediaWiki software and where it's headed... ^_^;; --Dinoguy1000 What?I did it! 16:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Images

I have no knowledge of SVG creation, hence why I've never used SVG images. Any help there would be excellent.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll point Radaghast to a few images and see what he comes up with. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk|local) Sep 17, 2007 @ 05:19 (UTC)

Summary

This Wikia has been operating on 'bare bones', i.e. it works, so we don't dare touch it, unless something breaks. If you're willing to give us a hand, I'm sure every contributor and admin, including myself, would be willing to lend a hand.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 16:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I can certainly see that e.g. with the templates. I have been thinking for awhile about sprucing up the templates used for card pages (and possibly combining at least some of them), but I haven't yet gotten around to experimenting any with them. --Dinoguy1000 What?I did it! 01:41, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I've actually been, and been planning on working on some special templates. Though I've been waiting for confirmation on the project joining in with Wikia ACG. Truth is I've put a lot into the templates in Wikia ACG, so much that they work better than many of the templates you'll find elsewhere, not to mention that whenever there's an issue with them I fix them. Which is kinda one of the unmentioned reasons for me wanting the wiki in the project (Other than how much it will benifit both the wiki and the project). Wikia ACG is kinda like my repo of templates and special things which I've worked hard to make useful. It's kinda like a toolkit of mine that helps me make other highly useful templates and systems using better syntax or standardizing things. When it comes to complicated, complex, and very unique types of systems on Wikia I'm known well for them. One of the major comments in IRC when someone directs someone needing help to me, is "Dan can fix anything"... But I don't like fixing the same kind of things over and over, which is one of the reasons I created those systems.
Without those I can't really do much to improve the quality of the systems here, which is why I've been waiting for the joining. You won't get someone much better than me to make things better... I've started on Template:CardTable which is going to be a merger of all the tables, and with many improvements to input. But it's kinda broken at the moment because it needs some of the technical templates I've created on Wikia ACG to work right, and also because the useful css classes from Wikia ACG which make the syntax used in the template much better are not here. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Oct 20, 2007 @ 03:54 (UTC)
Hmm... To tell the truth, I find it hard to understand why some people here have reservations about joining the ACG... If I understand correctly, even after joining, we would have the final word on how the Yu-Gi-Oh! wiki would be changed.
In any case, thanks for pointing out that card template, I'll have a look at the source and see if there's any way I can contribute to it... (oh, and by the way, do you think you could have a look at this section on my userpage and this page in my userspace and try and figure out where the 'phantom white-space' is coming from? I can't beat it out of there for the life of me... :P ) --Dinoguy1000 What?I did it! 16:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
It's a common mistake... When someone uses a lot of ifs in WikiTables and then things break because they need newlines... So they add a newline outside of each of the ifs. But the issue is that when you have a few of those if's which are false and don't go adding a new row, they end up adding extra newlines which create empty paragraphs in the table cells creating as you called it phantom whitespace. The trick to fix this is to not use a newline before the if, and instead use a <nowiki/> inside of the if to make it so that the newline inside of the if is rendered instead thereby making the needed newline only show up when you need the newline to add the table syntax in.
What I'm actually more disturbed by is the repeat style tags and such... I hate that kind of pointless code clutter... That's why I created my Box css class system... Because without something like that, you end up needing to overuse the style attribute. You'll notice something about a lot of my code... While it may be extremely complex, you don't see a lot of extra stuff lying around. In fact some of my most complex stuff is done in pretty small sets of code. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Oct 21, 2007 @ 10:20 (UTC)
Hmm... That's an interesting (if not very technical) issue... I'll have to try and keep it in mind from now on. ;)
Yeah, I have to agree with you on that... If I could just cut out all of the "common" CSS from my templates, I'd estimate it'd cut the size by at least a fourth... In any case, what I dislike the most is the fact that I have to have my table row code repeated twice, since there's no way (that I'm aware of) to do inline Boolean logic with ParserFunctions. Once you get past that, though, the template is (IMHO) quite simple and straightforward. --Dinoguy1000 What?I did it! 17:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Zane's Wikia

someone needs to change Zane's Wikia in the Underworld deck he doesn't use 2 Power Bond or 2 De-Fusion He also doesn't use 2 Cyber End Dragon he uses these cards in his first deck. The deck names are wrong his first deck is a Cyber Dragon Deck his second is correct. Thank you

Sister Sites!?

What's with the "Sister Sites" part on the Main Page? It's completely invalid.

With the exception of the German Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki none of those wiki link back or even acknowledge the existence of the English Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki, aren't Wikia wiki, and aren't made by the same people, therefore this wiki isn't even affiliated with them, so they couldn't even be considered affiliates much less sister sites. The only real term that can be used is "Similar wiki" or "Related wiki", the current box there makes it look as if the wiki are affiliated with each other or moreover have some sort of common ownership which is completely false. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen-local (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Oct 5, 2007 @ 07:55 (UTC)

Adding Yu-Gi-Oh GX Tag Force 2 for PSP on the main page?

How can I edit the Media Category and add Yu-Gi-Oh!_GX_Tag_Force_2 next to the one ???

I can not seem to get Plasma Eel copied to the Anime and Manga appearances.

It wasn't there and I went through a lot of trouble to make the page, only to discover that it was allready made, it just wasn't in the Anime and Manga appearances section. I tried to move it, but it for some reason it did not not work. Can somebody please fix this?

Destroyed as a Result of Battle not important?

Destroyed as a Result of Battle is one of the primary fundamentals of the game, yet the mechanics are not important enough to mention as a page, apparently. I just have one simple question: why?

SpellCaster Combo

Ok my friend gave me this card called "magician's valkyria" the effect of magician's valkyria, doesn't let you target another spell caster monster for an attack,. So I summoned "dark magician" which is another spell caster and equiped him with "ring of magnetism", which makes it so that the only monster your opponent can target to attack is the monster equiped with "ring of magnetism" I am wondering if i can do this combo, or will both effects cancel each other out. Please reply to me at [email protected]

  • Yes, you can, anyway I sent you a message. --Dragon Slayer 04:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Odds of Getting a UltraRare or SecretRare

how high is the % for getting a UltraRare or Secret Rare from a booster pack?

Do they put them in randomly?

Or is it like every other pack they put 1 in?

cause i've been trying to get a "dark magician of chaos" from "invasion of chaos"

  • Its better to buy them directly instead of searching for them in packs. --Dragon Slayer 06:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Ebay is great for this.

When I went to the SOI sneak preview, I learned that. In each box, the right pile fourth one down will have and Ultra rare. They pack them in order in a box. It depends on how they stock them in a store.--Blade69100 18:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Listing cards by type

Why are you guys taking down all the pages that list every dragon monster or every earth attribute monster (for example) and replacing them with a general overview and 'Noticable' cards from that group?

I want a list of every rock monster as I am trying to make a decent defense/rock deck and a 'general overview' and 20 'commonly seen cards' just isn't that helpful.

I bet the spell and trap card lists will be gone soon, and replaced with 'Noticable' cards from each type, showing like 10 or so from the possible hundreds there are.

Don't worry, just be patient, we're getting a type of a search, so you will be able to search for all cards of a specific Type, Attribute, ATK, DEF, Level, property, etc. or combinations them. -- Deltaneos 12:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification, its been like this for a while now and I've slowly watched all the useful pages disappear so I was getting a little concearned. Any idea when it will be available? To my knowledge there is not way for my to get a list of all the rock monsters ATM, so I cannot truly build my deck, or is there?

Phantom Darkness pics

yeah hi, i'm new to this and all but i have noticed that most of the pics on phdk have no pics, i'll leave a link as i am gonna read up on the image policy and stuff, cursed newb work

http://manjyomethunder.twoday.net/stories/4431520/

Time To Make An Archive

Don't you think? Anyway, I might edit here a bit, maybe do a lttle cleanup. But there are a lot of animes better than Yu-Gi-Oh!, like Death Note. -- Drake

Recent traffic stats

The following stats are Average Daily Page Views, each number is an average over 7 days to smooth out spikes due to weekend/weekday differences.

  • 343,552
  • 347,553
  • 351,266
  • 374,527
  • 393,533
  • 431,008
  • 444,743
  • 496,190
  • 472,061
  • 550,730
  • 493,426
  • 494,005
  • 472,288

Traffic peaked a month ago after a really long steady growth streak. Yu-Gi-Oh is currently the 4th most viewed Gaming-related wiki. -PanSola 20:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Wow, this wikia has grown a lot. Lets continue the good job. --Tyrant Slayer 20:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • This is Mavelus, kudos to all who respect the knowledge. Heartless Nocturne 13:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Trivia for Honest

I'm pretty sure Honest is the first Level 4 or lower monster to be a cover card. Is this accurate and is it good enough to be placed in Honest's trivia section?

i believe the thousand eyes restrict is on magic ruler, so no, it wasn't the first Heartless Nocturne 03:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

main page crash

when i perused the site around 3:14 pm my time, the main page crashed, with doller sign remaining, i don't know whta happened really Heartless Nocturne 05:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

What about Random Page link?

I noticed that the Random Page link dissappeared. Why, is there a reason? I loved it a lot. OmarZ

It was replaced with a Random articles section, right below the navigation box.
I feel so stupid not noticing it. Thanx. OmarZ
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