User talk:Dinoguy1000/Archive/2012/04

SMW Negating Nomi

Remember the problem where the ! negation in SMW doesn't work as it should in logic? I don't think I've suggested this solution, but it seems somewhat simple.
In Template:CardTable2, if |summonN does not contain "Nomi" or "Cannot Special Summon", it will automatically add a "Can Special Summon" (or another name) group. That should allow us to get the lists we want easily, without having to do this, or for most lists, include those and add a note to the top saying it cannot summon those. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:03, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Right, it's the same basic premise as No Entry, but it does require a full understanding of the problem domain, to make sure the value doesn't get added in any circumstances that it shouldn't (in the case of "Chaos-End Master", I don't understand what about its effect necessitates the convoluted query, meaning I don't fully understand the problem domain ;) ). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:53, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Almost the same. This one would allow entries of other things, as long as it isn't those two as well.

Currently searching for [[Summoning::!Nomi]] will still include Arcanite Magician/Assault Mode (which Chaos-End Master cannot Summon) because it contains Cannot Normal Summon/Cannot Set/Nomi/Special Summons from your Graveyard (things other than Nomi, this is how SMW's ! apparently works)

There is one small problem to this though. That would be Semi-Nomi; they can basically be Special Summoned from the Graveyard/Banished Zone, but cannot be Special Summoned from the Deck via other cards. To solve that, the same thing can be done once more, so if it does not contain "Nomi" or "Semi-Nomi" or "Cannot Special Summon", it will be auto added to "Can always Special Summon".

So in the end, to create a list for Decoy Dragon, it would then simply be {{#ask: [[Class 1::Official]] [[Type::Dragon]] [[Level::>7]] [[Summoning::Can Special Summon]] }} and a list for Chaos-End Master would be {{#ask: [[Class 1::Official]] [[ATK::≤1600]] [[Level::≥5]] [[Card Type::Normal Monster||Effect Monster]] [[Summoning::Can always Special Summon]] }}

So if you have: (I'll use shorthand instead of summon1, summon 2, etc.)

|summonN = (No Entry) and it will be auto added to "Can Special Summon" and "Can always Special Summon".

|summonN = Cannot Set and it will be auto added to "Can Special Summon" and "Can always Special Summon".

|summonN = Semi-Nomi, Cannot Set and it will be auto added to "Can Special Summon".

but |summonN = Cannot Normal Summon/Cannot Set/Nomi or |summonN = Cannot Set/Cannot Special Summon both will not be auto added to "Can Special Summon" nor "Can always Special Summon".

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:17, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

All right, I think part of my confusion arises from the names of the values; it would make more sense if they were "Can be Special Summoned", "Cannot be Set", etc. (if I'm understanding how they're used correctly, at least). Basically, the queries have to filter out monsters whose own effects prevent them from being Special Summoned, right? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:34, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

The names I used follow how the current pages are done. Yes, I agree that those names (... be ...) are better.

Yes, I think that's it. So:

"Can always be Special Summoned" = monsters that don't have restrictions on Special Summoning at all.

"Can be Special Summoned" = monsters that are in "Can always be Special Summoned" and also Semi-Nomi.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:18, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Should we go ahead and switch the names then?

So what does this make the exact change you're requesting? What you posted above, or is there any more to it? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:45, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Overall, two changes. First one is the one I've initially suggested for the Card Table. 2nd one is your suggestion on changing the names of those pages.

1) If all |summonN do not contain "Nomi" or "Cannot be Special Summoned". Add [[Summoning::Can be Special Summoned]].

If all |summonN do not contain "Nomi" or "Semi-Nomi" or "Cannot be Special Summoned". Add [[Summoning::Can always be Special Summoned]].

2) If you think we don't need to have a forum discussion, move "Cannot Special Summon", "Cannot Set", etc. to "Cannot be Special Summoned", "Cannot be Set", etc.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:00, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Should this apply only to Monster Cards, or is it fine for Spells and Traps to get tagged too?

I don't see why we should need a forum discussion; this shouldn't be much different from when I moved all the "Removed from play" pages to "Banished" a while back. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:19, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Monsters only, just like how Nomi is monsters only (though Nomi is manually added, so I didn't notice that Summoning applies for Spells/Traps as well). If it's necessary, you can also exclude Tokens, but that can be easily be done through SMW instead.

Sure, I also have no reason to not move them. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:23, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Edit made, let me know if something needs fixed.

Updating the terms is just a matter of moving the pages and updating their queries (and then updating card pages over time/with a bot run). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:34, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I'll move them after the edits seem to work perfectly.

Fusion/Synchro/Xyz/Rituals are all Semi-Nomi by default; the exception is if the card says they are Nomi. Excluding Fusion/Synchro/Xyz/Rituals in "Can always be Special Summoned" should fix the problem.

Aitsu doesn't seem to be added to either lists when it is null-edited. It should go on both lists.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:08, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

All right, so how exactly should they all be handled in this case? As though they had a summonN parameter set to "Semi-Nomi"?

I know exactly how to fix the issue with Aitsu (the problem affects all monsters without any summonN parameter), but I'm not going to fix it until I also address Fusion et al. monsters. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:44, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

If all |summonN do not contain "Nomi", and it is a Fusion/Ritual/Synchro/Xyz, then it is Semi-Nomi. Should work. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 05:50, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

All right, I think it's all working properly now; let me know if I've managed to bungle it all up. =D 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 06:08, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yay, they seem to work perfectly now. Thanks.

I'll go around using the bot to null edit for the monsters listed on other lists, and update the lists later. Give it a while in case someone spots an error that I missed. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 09:26, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

For some reason, cards like Boo Koo and The Bewitching Phantom Thief aren't going into the lists. I don't see why though. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:09, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Well, this has me completely stumped. I can't see anything in the code that should prevent either of those pages from receiving the properties, and indeed, copying the relevant code directly onto the pages and previewing results in the expected behavior. Maybe Delt can help us out? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:32, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Since they should all be Normal Monsters, what happens if we just add all Normal Monsters to those 2 lists? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:38, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

It should work, though I don't know for sure. It should also be unnecessary, though; Normal Monsters should be among the monsters added to those two groups simply by virtue of not being Tokens or Fusion/Ritual/Synchro/Xyz Monsters. =/ 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:01, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

A clue?

Removing the line |archetype1 = Spiders from Hunter Spider, removes Can be Special Summoned +, and Can always be Special Summoned + from the factbox

Adding the line |archetype1 = Spiders to Boo Koo, adds Can be Special Summoned +, and Can always be Special Summoned + from the factbox

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:34, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Oh crap, now I know what's going on (the archetype1 behavior isn't directly related, but it was a clue): the "Summoning Categories" box (along with the "Support", "Anti-Support", "Stat Change", etc. boxes) are all contained in a single {{CardTable2/row}}. To allow me to not be as stringent with the code for the individual boxes, this template call has its own "check" parameter, consisting of the first parameter from each card search category. This means that if a card doesn't have any such search categories (as will be the case for many Normal Monsters), the entire row isn't output, which works fine - unless one of the categories has a "checkfail" behavior that needs to apply to all cards, as we have here.

Unfortunately, though, there isn't a straightforward solution that I can see (other than duplicating the "checkfail" in the outer /row, which has its own issues); removing the "check" from the /row means that, in cases where a card doesn't have any search categories but still gets properties or something from a "checkfail", the /row is still rendered in the template, but without any content other than the "Card Search Categories" header. I'll go ahead and use the duplication fix for now, but it's definitely a hack and I'll be thinking of possible ways we might be able to get rid of it. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 06:25, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

All right, "Boo Koo" and "The Bewitching Phantom Thief" (along with, I'm sure, a whole slew of other Normal Monsters) are fixed now. As always, let me know if you spot any cock-ups. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 06:34, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

That was more complex than I thought it would be. Next bug.

It was working fine before, but Semi-Nomi monsters (e.g. Card Breaker, Chaos Sorcerer) don't appear as Summoning::Can be Special Summoned any more.

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:11, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

That was easy. C'mon, what else ya got? =D 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:09, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

It should work perfectly now, according to (all Card Tips pages that currently use the searches && its card has the phrase "Special Summon" in its lore).

The only error was with Blackwing - Blizzard the Far North but that was because "Cannot Special Summon" was not on the page. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:19, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Awesome, let me know if there's anything else you need help with or would like implemented. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:34, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Dinoguy1000. You have new messages at Montechristo95's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Do me a solid and notify Fred as well, will you? I had forgotten how to use this "talkback" thing. Btw, think you used enough "O"s back there? --ΜοｎtΕcｈrísＴο９5 10:12, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Looks like he already saw your reply.

No, not by a long shot; I just ran out of breath. =D 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 19:52, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I saw that when you posted this topic up not so long ago. And remember, I get cat instinct! I can sense almost a distance away... --FredCat 20:56, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

He was here. He replied. You know what to do.

Delete this message after reading. FOR YOUR SAFETY! <!-- --ΜοｎtΕcｈrísＴο９5 20:48, April 2, 2012 -->

CardTable2 ordering

I've been changing card pages so that card search cats are the last thing in the input, with anime appearances above it. It displays that way anyway when you view the page. I know it really doesn't matter, but I saw your edit to "Cannon Wheel", so I thought I'd let you know. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:54, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

All right, I'll try to keep that in mind. One of these days, we should have a bot run to standardize parameter order across all transclusions (this is something I've been thinking for a long time). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:56, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't help that I used to always put the anime appearances stuff last and then changed my mind. But yeah, that would be good. Eventually. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 04:00, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

On a related note, I've also been moving "effect" to be above all the lores...since that's where it appears when the page is saved.

On an unrelated note, I found another archetype. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:08, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I've been doing as well (along with "number"). When I think about it, I also add "effect" to non-Non-Effect Monster pages (including Spell and Trap Card pages) when I come across them.

I've wondered for some time how many undocumented archetypes/series from the first series, GX, and 5D's there might be (I rather doubt there're too many more, at least for 5D's and possibly GX). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:31, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, why would a non-Effect Monster need to use the "effect" parameter?

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if a find a few more while I go through all the anime/manga cards. I also wouldn't be surprised if some are buried in the edit history and got removed at some point during improper effect rewording. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 04:56, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

It wouldn't, that's why I said non-non-Effect Monster. ;)

That's been my exact thought - how many potential archetypes aren't documented here because they're supported only by an anime/manga effect? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:15, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Oh. I'll try to remember to add blank "effect" parameters as well then. Not going to fill them in myself, since I have no bloody clue. The only I could identify with 100% certainty is a Maintenance Cost. Really, I'm not even sure what the difference between discards for cost and discards for effect is.

That's a good point, but also not what I meant. By "improper lore fixing" I meant "changing it so it looks more like the TCG. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 15:56, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

That's my problem too. =)

Aah, I thought you were talking about cases where an animanga card was later released in the OCG/TCG, and the animanga effect was simply replaced by the *CG effect. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:03, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Clueless administrators FTW.

Well, that's another good point.

We need a CardTable2 parameter for Yu-Gi-Oh! D Team ZEXAL. I'm thinking "manga_dz" should work. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:31, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

After all, who could possibly be clueless in our place? =D

Done, along with a bunch of other tweaks and cleanup... Now, sleep for me. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 08:15, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I just remembered this. Definitely support for an archetype we don't document. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 01:27, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, good find. Judging by the first few revisions, it looks like it's support for a "Seal" (封（ふう）じ) archetype. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 02:10, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I was hoping you'd respond by saying you isolated the archetype name text. I couldn't. Now I can create the page (unless you want to; either way). Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:16, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Go for it. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 02:20, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, done. I have to wonder if there are any other members that the edit history didn't reveal. Tried checking several other cards that actually do have "Seal" in their English names, but no dice. This is great. This archetype has literally no known members who have the English archetype name in their card name. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:41, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Outliers FTW? =3 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 03:03, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Stubborn User

This user just ignored my warning and shoved in different images in Yugi Muto and Maximillion Pegasus in their informbox, repeat... I revived them back to normal twice and just got frustrated with him. So go ahead, tear him apart and it would all be good. --FredCat 22:55, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Spell Card activation in future PSCT/Errata

I am sure that Konami would may reprint all those cards that involved "Spell Cards" being activated in the past; into "resolves successful" as following of "Bountiful Artemis". Since most of them can't triggering if the Spell Card is negated and destroyed, like "Spell Absorption" and many Spellcaster monsters, like "Skilled Dark Magician", etc. It once confused one of my sister's opponents when she used Horus Lockdown back in her time as he tried to recover from his suffer loss by playing Spell Cards and hoped to gain Life Points while "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" was face-up. Do you think Konami should to do that way? Or just ignored and shit up those oddly PSCT stuffs around? --FredCat 15:43, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

I dunno; I'm still not much good with card effects. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:47, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Ah alright... I can't blame you ever if you're great with article designation... I only brought this theory up because of many conflict that other players/users whined that they should gain 500 LP or get a counter on certain card whenever Spell Card was "activate". Konami should think twice about their grammar... I found "resolves successful" suit them better than "activate", since negated the activate and effect of the Spell Cards would making them still think they still gained whatever. Since with "Bountiful Artemis" being updated, I would be happy to approve them same as her. --FredCat 16:54, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Query: Attack, Defense problem

Hello, I have been talking to you a lot lately about queries and I was wondering if you may be able to help me with something I just noticed. On pages with a query, such as Rank 1 Monster Cards and Card Tips:Wetlands, for some reason the Att and Defense values are doubling. For example, if the Monster's Attack is 300, it appears as 300300. If it is 1,100 it instead appears as 11001,100. Do you know what is happening? How can we stop this? --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 18:16, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Same, it was when I went to check Gigo monster lists... saw them being double in same space. Either it's sysadmins' fault for not watch them careful or that's just Wikia glitch. --FredCat 18:23, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

We have to play the waiting game. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 18:24, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Cost

Check it out, I just notice the whole mess up so I went ahead and arranged it whole up. Think it look better? --FredCat 19:00, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, as far as I can tell, it looks pretty good. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 01:09, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Glad I worked it out. And sorry I didn't able to respond for a day - was too busy dropping my ball all over the shine new iMac as a present :\ --FredCat 16:26, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Magical + Book of Spell

Hey, can you help me with this problem. I put this problem in the talk page, but no one is responding. In both archetypes/series, Magical and Book of Spell have 魔(ま)導(どう) + 書 (Book, Sho). so, what should we do with this? 24.83.215.20 (talk) 06:25, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Nothing, I think. "Book of Spell" is technically a sub-archetype of "Magical", but since the latter doesn't have any support yet, that doesn't really mean much. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:57, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Counters in CardTable2

In addition to the anime/manga archsupport but not TCG/OCG/video game archsupport issue, I've also been leaving "counters" categories in card pages if removal of them would result in no cards having that counter category ("Fog Castle" with Beacon Counters for example). I modify the card search cats to use the video game effects in such cases, though need to leave the counter cat (which is anime/manga only) in I have the feeling I'm going to find a few more things that we may need to leave in like that, so perhaps we should add it to the {{CardTable2}} documentation (or perhaps you should since my wording sucks). Actually, I'm not even sure if we document that vg lores take precedence over anime/manga. That is the consensus though. On a related note, why is the category "counters" instead of "counter"? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 16:22, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

The card search categories in general are largely undocumented; this is just a symptom of the larger problem that CardTable2's documentation sucks, and always has. Documentation is not easy to write, especially when you're doing so after the fact, and particularly when you weren't the one who wrote the code you're attempting to document and thus don't fully understand how it's supposed to work or how it was meant to be used. Counters, and the rest of the card search categories, are one such case for me; I don't really know much about how they're used, or how they were meant to be used, aside from the archetypeN / archsupportN / (to a lesser extent) archrelatedN parameters. Because of that, there are all sorts of intricacies and details like the precedence issue you pointed out that aren't documented.

Not that I'm arguing against bothering with documentation - after all, I'm the one who originally started getting CardTable2 properly documented, after all - it's just that writing documentation is never very easy, and this is no exception. I'll see what I can do, but first I'll have to get the hang of how the "counters" category is used and where best to document it.

As for "counters" versus "counter", I have no idea, since I had nothing to do with its addition.

Circling back around for a moment, I think it'd be better to separately document the search categories for each medium with a unique effect, though I have no idea how the parameters would work, or how the information would be best displayed, and I also realize I'd probably be the one doing all the coding. =D

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to finish my little stroll down memory lane. XD 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:19, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Most of the card search cats are fairly self-explanatory, though there a few I myself don't get either. The knowledge I have from when I did used to play the game suffices for most of them. If you like, I can attempt to go through them (eventually; +1 to absurdly long mental "to-do" list) and try to document how they're to be used (then check with Delt, Falzar and ATEM so they can fix the mistakes I'm sure I will make).

The counters category is just for any card that uses a specific type of counter. That's really it. If the card uses that counter, then it should be added to that page.

Good idea, but yeah, that sounds overly complicated.

I've looked through that before myself. I may not understand most of it, but looking through it did help me grasp some of it better and it was interesting to see when certain functionalities were added. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 20:09, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

If you want to, go ahead. ;) A lot of the stuff actually is fairly obvious in hindsight, especially when you have the added benefit of knowing what the template was like when it was first added - what functionality was already there, what functionality was added alongside it, associated edit summaries, etc.

What I find really interesting is the fact that my first edit to the template happened the same day Delt started updating and extending Dantman's initial version; I have no idea how I managed to find the template so early. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:16, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Look at this, you bugged me to do it myself about Discussion article and now you're bugging DinoGuy off for his permission to post your stuffs or begged him to post those stuffs up on the certain articles... Why not just go and do it yourself then wait and see if other admins approved, beside this dude. --FredCat 20:28, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Don't really want to, but I still might. Actually, I probably should, since I don't even think those pages have an actual category. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 20:42, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

In this case, it wasn't something I was sure needed to be done, FredCat. And at this point, Dinoguy is the primary maintainer of the template I'd be messing with - a template I'm not familiar enough with to do any major work to. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 20:42, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Speak of that "template"; I just received a message from Goldy that there is a glitch in one gallery article... "Hero Flash!!" has that kind of glitch on top of the recipe... --FredCat 20:46, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Awesome, looks like you got it, Dinoguy. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 21:22, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, Fred, working with templates is quite a bit different from working with other types of pages, since a single edit to a template can affect many many pages. In addition, templates are currently only one degree removed from straight-up programming (if even that), and in many respects, are actually harder to write and edit than actual program/application code. Because of these (and how they interact with various behaviors of MediaWiki), editing a template isn't something you should generally do unless you have a reasonable idea of what's going on in the code you edit; CardTable2 uses some fairly intricate code in places (there is some of it that even I don't fully understand), so it's perfectly reasonable for Cheesedude to ask someone else to edit the template instead of trying to do so himself and potentially breaking stuff or introducing subtle bugs. ;)

I fixed the problem with the gallery header; the issue was that double exclamation points (!!) are wikicode for a new header cell when used inside a wikicode table, which is what {{GalleryHeader}} uses. It wouldn't be an issue if the template was converted to instead use an HTML table, but doing that would require updating literally every transclusion on the site (since you can't mix HTML and wikicode for a table's markup), and I don't have the patience for that. ;) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 21:27, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, they do have a category. I just somehow never noticed it. I've been thinking about this more. The whole thing needs some restructuring, I think. One thing I've been doing is taking out redundant search cats (i.e. Destroys Monster Cards, Destroys your opponent's face-up Attack Position Monster Cards; the second is pointless if the first is already there). Is there any way to make a page show up in the list shown on two search cat pages while only listing it on one. i.e., anything listed at Destroys your opponent's Trap Cards would also be listed at Destroys Trap Cards by default?

There's also no clear definitions for which parameters are used for each cat. I've seen Tributes for cost listed as both "action" and "mst". Generally, I use "action" for that one.

There's also other stuff about this I wanted to point out that I have gone and forgotten between beginning to type this out and now. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:28, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Definitely; a systematic codification (and, where necessary, restructuring/overhaul) of the card search categories is long overdue.

That's pretty simple; just include e.g. "Destroys your opponent's face-up Attack Position Monster Cards" in the query on "Destroys Monster Cards". There's a potential issue with the sheer size of the query (or, more specifically, the number of conditions in the query) once you start getting to the more generic properties, but concepts should help mitigate that.

I've noticed that type of confusion occasionally myself. In the specific case of "Tributes for cost", action does seem the more appropriate category. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 00:05, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Image

Hey Dinoguy, could you delete File:MahaVailo-DT05-EN-DNPR-DT.jpg and then move File:MahaVailoDT05-EN-DNPR-DT.jpg there, please? Blackwings0605 corrected all of the links on Set Card Galleries:Duel Terminal 5 (TCG-EN-DT) to the proper format, but only renamed a few of the images, so I assumed all the red-links were images we didn't have. >_> --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 23:52, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Done (more or less; instead of explicitly deleting the first image, I just moved the second over it). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:07, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Well the result appears to be the same, I just can't move over existing things, as you know. :) --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 12:48, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Xentax

http://forum.xentax.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7144&view=next I guess no one's interested in looking at this. =D The download link's expired by now; if someone does want to have a look, let me know and I'll reupload the files. Mail：[email protected] I hope you can provide theThank you! ! ! —This unsigned comment was made by 67.158.60.98 (talk • contribs) 07:56, April 11, 2012

Hey, can you remind me by posting on that thread? Thanks! 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 00:08, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Other Glitch

Hello, Me thought you would to be aware of this same error as before. Have a nice evening! --FredCat 16:17, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 23:33, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

New article, yet agaaaain!

What do you think? If you think it's not quite good - just inform me of what to change and take out. Anything is allow! --FredCat 22:28, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Looks decent to me. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 00:10, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I am glad it's in good shape. This user was in bad shape, so I just went ahead and create it to prevent the further troublesome. And yes, I put that image in correct address just for her and I gave it to her. Other three she found already belong to this site... --FredCat 12:26, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

A little long; the average new user may not take the time to read that through, especially the younger ones, who cause the most trouble. Grammar could be cleaned up as well. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 12:38, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

To remind ya, Goldy... she's in Europe, maybe further than where Dino living in and she was very tired at that time when I explained the details to her. At least she did realizing that she had done wrong and just let the stuffs go, while I passed the one she found that don't belong to this site into her profile. Lighten up the mood, please. --FredCat 12:43, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Blaze Accelerator archetype

"Wild Fire" may be support. Can you check the jplore? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 15:53, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Either you peeked and went to checking "Wild Fire" or that was just coincidence; I was just mentioned "Blaze Accelerator" in ATEM's talk page about the error that I had done in my story I wrote so ancient-age ago. --FredCat 16:07, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Looks like archsupport to me. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:43, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Mover

In the future, please be sure to let anyone know about their right to be a Mover - I didn't know about that till Goldy told me about that. Hell, he ever showed me a link to that article where my name was listed. It's like leaving the message without a signature in each forum/talk page, a bad habit, I am tell ya; Dino. And I never ask to have the title of mover but I do deserve that since I confirm to Goldy and you about this. Thank you, and please be sure to information other if they get it, alright? --FredCat 19:00, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I thought I did tell you about it, though, albeit rather obliquely. Sorry about that. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 19:07, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

No need to sorry - only matter is to keep the inform on high alert. Btw, as my instinct break-up the sound rhyme of your comment, it turned out little funny (not mean funny, just feel-funny-ish) to think of how to "speak" it out. (Yes, our roles are complete oppose, you curious'd about my language, I am curious about your oddly way of typing down those comments.) --FredCat 19:10, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I find it hilarious you've had the ability for over 2 weeks and didn't realize it. That explains your confusion the time I told you to suppress redirects; you didn't know you could! --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 19:31, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, I was pointing to "Delete" mark (which why I said dump), but that was not clearly when I was in that state back then. But now, it's all clearly! >:( --FredCat 21:42, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

RE: 1st Ed. Inzektor Dragonfly

It needs to be looked at as it is saying the proper version for that card is a Common when the Image and the Info on the Gallery Page clearly shows it as a Rare card. Thank you for diverting your attention to this matter. Glittersword ^{Talk • Contributions} 23:25, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Was this message meant for Look234? It looks like he helped you out with it already on your talk page. If not, could you link me to the image you're talking about? You can link to an image instead of embedding it by adding a colon at the beginning of the filename, e.g. [[:File:Example.jpg]] results in File:Example.jpg. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 08:48, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

May have another one.

"Harpie Lady Sparrow Formation" and "Harpie Lady Phoenix Formation" call for a "Harpie Lady monster" Not a "Harpie", a "Harpie Lady". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:34, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Their Japanese lores don't have the normal "with X in its name" text; what does Ryusui say about them? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:12, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Then it's not an archetype then. Yay. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:04, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed another two. You said you were interesed to see how my undocumented ones we had, so that's why I'm telling you everytime I find one. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 18:54, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

That's fine, it gives me an excuse to stuff my watchlist. =D 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:47, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Mover Helps!

May you point out of how to delete the images; you also forgot to show me how.... --FredCat 20:40, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

The mover right doesn't allow you to delete existing pages; are you referring instead to being able to suppress redirects? If so, you can do that when moving a page by unchecking the "Leave a redirect behind" checkbox. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 04:58, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Fred's got it down now, actually. Delta and I helped him out. :) --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 05:01, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Cool, sorry I'm so late to the party. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:16, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

In future, give someone their power and forget to teach them again, you're dump down in the rank! --FredCat 20:52, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of moving

Now that bots can be given mover rights as well, would it be possible to use them to fix all of the images in galleries without the hyphen before the set abbreviation? --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 00:44, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Kind of... In most cases, it can be done by inserting a hyphen after the last lowercase letter before the first hyphen in the card's name (if that makes sense), but there are cases where that would separate part of the card's name as part of the set ID, and there are also cases where the gallery contains images with a mixture of old and new-style names. It would help automate the actual change, but each edit would still need to be manually reviewed. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:04, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

So it's as similar to doing a find and replace in Microsoft Word as I imagined it to be? ie., a bot could be set to change tDB1 to t-DB1, thus fixing File:PenguinKnightDB1-EN-C-UE.jpg, File:BlackPendantDB1-EN-R-UE.jpg, etc.? Galleries seem pretty easy to review: just look for the redlinks. The time it would take to fix any errors would probably be far less than the time it would take for someone to go through a gallery manually to make the changes. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 15:43, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Kind of (I'm saying that a lot all of a sudden, aren't I? ;P ). A bot could make full use of regexes, meaning we could use something like (?:File\:|Image\:)?(.+?)([A-Z0-9]{2,5})- (don't worry if you can't understand that, regex is just a stone's throw from being a write-only language (and is already there for many people)). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:39, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Magic. Gotcha.

Just thought I'd propose it as a way to speed up what would otherwise be a long and tedious process. While I was fixing the Duel Terminal 6 (TCG) images I though of it, but maybe you've all had this in mind already. :) --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 17:01, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, yeah, I have had the thought, but I've been leery of doing it myself because I feel it would be best for all the images to be properly renamed first, and there are also other issues that have to be handled, in particular with punctuation in image names that should be removed (dashes in card names, in particular), but that's just me, and Falzar would probably be willing to go ahead with a bot run. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:34, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I was talking about using the bots to properly rename the images, then having them fix the gallery pages. We could look at the galleries beforehand to rename and images with dashes so that they don't get messed up. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 17:56, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Aha, that's what I thought at first, but your wording in your opening comment didn't seem to support that. =)

It would be possible, but not with our currently active bots; they all use AWB, and so far as I've been able to tell, there is no way to automate page renames in AWB. That means we'd need someone to write a bot for us specifically for that purpose. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 18:01, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

You should see me try to explain things to people out loud. >_>

But anyway, hopefully someone will write such a bot someday. It's time consuming moving so many images. Probably why Blackwings0605 only changed the Duel Terminal 5 page links, but didn't bother to rename the images (I've since fixed them all). --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 18:28, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm open to making "rename all images that have punctuation in the image name" my next project, if that would help. Though it would certainly be quite a while until I finish my current one. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 19:20, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

That was part of my motivation for creating {{OCG-TCG card image}} - it still requires work to deploy, but that work is more amenable to AWB, and after the template is added, it allows any admin (or, now, any editor with the mover user right) to rename the image in one click, with zero typing and zero work in determining the correct file name (though uses of the image still have to be updated manually).

Cheesedude: If you want to, I'd say go for it. =) 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:55, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Token issue

There is at least one token that can be Summoned by more than one card. In this case, "Ecole de Zone and "Imitation". Using a comma in the "summon" parameter just gives a read link. Can you change it to be a parameter that can use commas? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 03:28, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Done, though it's currently just hardcoded to allow one extra card (and it'll break on any card names with a comma). 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 05:16, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. For now, that won't be a problem. That may be an isolated case anyway. I can't think of any more off the top of my head, at least. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 12:07, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

RE: Mover

• Oh, wow... Hey, pal, thanks a bunch!--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 23:09, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

ins and Duel summaries

The Oasis CSS includes an ins{text-decoration:none}. Have you any idea why they've done that? I was considering just undoing it in the MediaWiki:Wikia.css. -- Deltaneos (talk) 12:05, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure... The only place the corresponding del element is mentioned in the file is in the code a, abbr, address, article, aside, audio, b, blockquote, body, canvas, caption, cite, code, dd, del, details, dfn, div, dl, dt, em, embed, fieldset, figcaption, figure, footer, form, h1, .WikiaRail .module h2, .WikiaRail #RIGHT_SKYSCRAPER h2,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,header,hgroup,html,i,iframe,img,ins,kbd,label,legend,li,mark,menu,nav,object,ol,p,pre,q,samp,section,#LEFT_SKYSCRAPER_2,small,span,strong,sub,summary,sup,time,ul,var,video{border:0;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0;padding:0;vertical-align:baseline} (which does reset some of its attributes, but not its text-decoration, which defaults to a strike-through in many browsers).

Keep in mind, though, that ins (and del) has a very specific semantic meaning - specifically, to mark text that has been deleted (del) and inserted (ins) at some point. I'm not sure how useful these elements could be for us, unless we found text we wanted to quote that used them or something. Did you have some use in mind? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:06, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I see. That makes a lot more sense. I've just been using ins as a non-deprecated alternative to u for all purpose underlining. I should have really known it wasn't that straightforward. I'll clean-up after myself. It seems weird that they removed the underline, but no, I don't have any legitimate use in mind, so it doesn't matter for now. Thanks. -- Deltaneos (talk) 18:15, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

These turn headings had been where I was using it. Would you say they're better without the underlines or should we throw in some extra work to add the underline CSS? -- Deltaneos (talk) 18:27, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I have to ask (or rather, I've been wondering for some time and never bothered to mention it until now) whether there's any reason for us not to use definition lists for Duel summaries like that - dt (;) for the headings, and dd (:) for the descriptions. This would provide appropriate visual emphasis and semantic meaning to boot. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 18:31, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

What about when there's more than one paragraph per turn summary? -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:39, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Use a : on each. It should work the same way as the "other_names" parameter in {{Infobox archetype}}, or as {{Yu-Gi-Oh! volumes}}. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:07, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

This is what it's like, side thumbnails and all. Any chance we could do something simple to get padding around the paragraphs? A bit like before? -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:34, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

You mean top/bottom padding? We could wrap it in a div with a unique class (we'd probably want to template the div) and do .classname dd { padding: ...; } in MediaWiki:Common.css... 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 20:49, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

That'd also let us add underlines to .classname dt, if necessary. Templating the div sounds good. I'd worry about using tags that open and close that far apart on not-so-technical pages, where newer users are likely to get confused. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:22, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

If necessary, yes, but ideally the bolding and the difference in indentation should be enough emphasis. ;)

One note on the CSS: to prevent us from having to reset the left and right padding (and thus end up with all the potential issues associated with doing so), we would want to specify padding-top and padding-bottom individually. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 06:02, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) If we are making a template, what if we took the next step and set it, so that each turn is a parameter and used something like:

<dl>
<dt>{{{turn1}}}</dt>
<dd>
{{{turnsummary1}}}
</dd>
<dt>{{{turn2}}}</dt>
<dd>
{{{turnsummary2}}}
</dd>
</dl>

That way we'd only have one dd per dt and by just typing each turnsummary like regular paragraphs, they'd get their p tags and associated padding. -- Deltaneos (talk) 10:07, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

In that case, I'd suggest using one outer template for the dl (since we'd be using HTML instead of wikimarkup to generate the list, we could also ditch the outer div and apply the class directly to the dl) and an inner template for each dt/dd pair. That way if a duel in a given setting has a zillion turns, that can be supported without having a zillion parameter pairs in the template. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:44, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Template:Duel summary and Template:Duel summary/turn maybe? Same example. -- Deltaneos (talk) 13:00, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. I can see there being a bit of confusion on exactly how it's supposed to work, but I think that's probably unavoidable. Are you still wanting the extra padding, and if so, do you have a class name in mind? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 16:59, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Er sorry, I meant margin, not padding. Now that the paragraphs are in their p tags, that's no longer a problem. -- Deltaneos (talk) 17:03, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Aah, all right, then. So it should be ready to be deployed more widely, right? 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:05, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

I guess so. Unless there's anything else that might need changing? -- Deltaneos (talk) 17:11, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Nothing that I know of, but then I don't do much with Duel summaries. The most likely thing would be the addition of a class name for whatever purpose, and that can be done at any time. 「ディノ奴千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 17:13, April 28, 2012 (UTC)