Difference between revisions of "Talk:Attack and effect names"

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(OCG names: not that I'm arguing against another column or anything =) )
(OCG names: wow, how did I manage that? o_O )
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===OCG names===
 
===OCG names===
 
Is there any reason there is not a row for that? Some of the attack names for the Japanese version make perfect sense when you consider the card's ''OCG'' name, but no sense when you consider the card's ''TCG'' name. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 13:14, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
 
Is there any reason there is not a row for that? Some of the attack names for the Japanese version make perfect sense when you consider the card's ''OCG'' name, but no sense when you consider the card's ''TCG'' name. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 13:14, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
We don't necessarily need another column for that; it could go in the same table cell as the ''TCG'' name, though we'd have to come up with some good separator. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ダイノ</span><span style="color:#080;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千?!</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 23:29, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
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:We don't necessarily need another column for that; it could go in the same table cell as the ''TCG'' name, though we'd have to come up with some good separator. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ダイノ</span><span style="color:#080;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千?!</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 23:29, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:29, 10 August 2011

This is the talk page for discussing the page, Attack and effect names.

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Bolding

Seems like Pendulum Machine's attack name just doesn't wants to be bolded for whatever reason.... —This unsigned comment was made by 118.137.217.125 (talkcontribs) 17:18, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

That's because "Pendulum Machine" is missing the ''' at the end of its name. Why are both attack and monster names being bolded anyway? Bolding is used to add emphasis. Bolding almost every term on the page defeats that purpose. -- Deltaneos (talk) 18:08, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Overuse of bolding

When nearly the entire page is bolded, the bolding loses it's effect. Sure, we bold attack names on Card Appearances pages, but I don't see a reason to here. At the very least, we should unbold either the monster or attack names. Does anyone object? Cheesedude 18:20, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

No objections were raised, so I unbolded everything. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:18, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Separate Japanese and English sections?

What is the point to having separate sections for translated Japanese versus official English attack names? It would make far more sense to have a single combined list, with each attack name having 1) the official English name, 2) the original Japanese name, 3) romaji Japanese name, and 4) translated Japanese name (if different from official English name), just as we do currently on card articles for card names. This would eliminate a *lot* of duplication (and, therefore, omissions from people being too lazy to keep both lists in sync) and make the list more maintainable in general.

Or, perhaps, better support should be added to {{CardTable2}}, all of this info should be moved to individual card pages, and this page should be converted to an SMW-based auto-list? ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:42, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

It's more complicated than it seems, actually. First off, many monsters have multiple attack names in both versions. "Elemental Hero Avian", for example. I can list at least six attack names for him off the top of my head. Each of those names does not necessarily correlate to another in the other language. One of his English attack names is "Talon Tear". There is not one Japanese attack name is that consistently becomes "Talon Tear". There are other instances in which one version may use an attack name and the other does not, for whatever reason. Then there's attack names listed in the real-world card lore, which aren't always present in the anime. As for actual reasoning as to why its this, I'd say it's simply because whoever created the page set it up that way and no one questioned it until now.
The Japanese section of this page is using the Japanese/OCG monster names, which would sort of be lost if transferred to CardTable2, "trans" parameter or not. On that note, can we get that "attackname" parameter changed to accept multiple attack names without using commas (perhaps using the same system as the "action" parameter and such). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:32, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I was aware of the fact that many monsters have multiple attack names. =) I didn't know the Japanese vs. English names so often don't match up at all, but in retrospect, I suppose it's not all that surprising. And yeah, no matter what, the CardTable2 support needs to be improved *somehow* (for starters, like you said, built-in support for multiple attack names, and getting them into a property would also be nice). ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:59, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah. We do have that parameter being added by an IP. I noticed at least ten instance popping up on my watchlist. I also do like the idea of adding the romaji attack names, since some of them are very fun to say. We could do a combined list in table format, as long each section allowed for multiple names, and the English section was at the far right (to ensure that the it's understood which name the romaji and translations are for). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:04, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
I briefly considered a table format as well, but didn't spend much time thinking about it once I thought we'd need to handle the multiple attack names case carefully-ish. I think, reflecting on it more now, our best bet would be for each individual attack name to have its own row, and have the monster name rowspanned across the relevant rows. Unfortunately, though, that leads to somewhat confusing markup (since we're omitting a column in a lot of rows). I can make a mockup if I wasn't clear enough to be understandable. ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:08, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
No, it's clear enough, I think. But wouldn't that make for one big-ass table, since every monster would essentially be taking up two rows? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:19, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
No bigger than it would be otherwise; the spanned cells would just be serving to reduce redundancy in the table. Consider:
Monster Attack 1
Monster Attack 2
versus
Monster Attack 1
Attack 2
ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:24, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I misinterpreted what you meant. I thought it would look like this.
Monster
Attack 1 Attack 2
Having said that, what you have up there looks fine. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:31, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
Nope, I took care to specify rowspanning in my above comment. ;) ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:34, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
See, this is one of the situations where you should have assumed I had no idea what I was talking about, unlike here. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:42, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm late. What if we only applied the rows to the three Japanese sections. This way it's clear which Japanese, rōmaji and translation correspond and that the English name doesn't necessarily relate:
Card/spirit English Japanese Rōmaji Japanese translated
Blue-Eyes White Dragon White Lightning ほろびの爆裂疾風弾バーストストリーム Horobi no Bāsuto Sutorīmu Burst Stream of Destruction
ホーリー爆裂疾風弾バーストストリーム Hōrī Bāsuto Sutorīmu Holy Burst Stream (with Mystical Elf)
Elemental Hero Avian
  • Quill Cascade
  • Wind Storm Strike
  • Talon Tear
  • Electric Orb
フェザー・ブレイク Fezā Bureiku Feather Break
Feather Slash
Feather Flash
フェザー・ショット Fezā Shotto Feather Shot (with Feather Shot)
Winged Dragon, Guardian of the Fortress #1 Fireball 火球の飛礫 Fiery Cannonballs
Although the syntax is a lot more complicated that what most editors are used to and this is what it looks like in the default skin:
Card/spirit English Japanese Rōmaji Japanese translated
Blue-Eyes White Dragon White Lightning ほろびの爆裂疾風弾バーストストリーム Horobi no Bāsuto Sutorīmu Burst Stream of Destruction
ホーリー爆裂疾風弾バーストストリーム Hōrī Bāsuto Sutorīmu Holy Burst Stream (with Mystical Elf)
Elemental Hero Avian
  • Quill Cascade
  • Wind Storm Strike
  • Talon Tear
  • Electric Orb
フェザー・ブレイク Fezā Bureiku Feather Break
Feather Slash
Feather Flash
フェザー・ショット Fezā Shotto Feather Shot (with Feather Shot)
Winged Dragon, Guardian of the Fortress #1 Fireball 火球の飛礫 Fiery Cannonballs
-- Deltaneos (talk) 23:09, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Looks good to me. I actually like how condensed it looks in the default skin better, oddly enough (that's a first). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 23:28, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Dinoguy approves, too. =) I'm trying to decide if a row template allowing an arbitrary number of Japanese attack names would be possible through some abuse of #arraymap (though that hinges on no attack names using some common character that we can use as a delimiter =/ )... ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:40, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
I've started converting to table format. I think it would improve readability if we could make every second card's row(s) be a second colour, like on wikipedia:Template:Track listing. -- Deltaneos (talk) 01:51, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
It would improve readability, I think, but it'd also be hard as hell to keep correctly zebra-striped. On the other hand, we could assign a unique class name to the tables and use the CSS3 selector :nth-child(even) (or :nth-child(odd), if we want o color odd rows instead), though that will obviously only work in browsers with support for CSS3 selectors (meaning, immediately, every version of IE pre-9 is right out). ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:55, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
Though on the other hand, I'm not sure how :nth-child() and rowspan get along; I've never played around much with :nth-child(). =/ ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 03:57, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

OCG names

Is there any reason there is not a row for that? Some of the attack names for the Japanese version make perfect sense when you consider the card's OCG name, but no sense when you consider the card's TCG name. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 13:14, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

We don't necessarily need another column for that; it could go in the same table cell as the TCG name, though we'd have to come up with some good separator. ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 23:29, August 10, 2011 (UTC)