Talk:Lightsworn

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Revision as of 00:30, 3 December 2010 by 98.163.120.145 (talk) (Ok, then i will just remove my posts)
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This is the talk page for discussing the page, Lightsworn.

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Name

I keep hearing that the TCG translates "Lightlords" into "Lightsworns". Does anyone know if that's true? If so, shouldn't the pages be moved? Danny Lilithborne 05:14, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Could some old/coming decks be aided by these? Macro-Lightsworn? Chaos Necromancer? GaiaGate OTK? Lots of deck-thinning OTK/FTK decks could be helped with this set of cards. Opinions?

99.162.122.160 00:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)A. Nonymus

Who uses them?

Who in the Anime uses Lightsworns? 206.113.142.245 18:05, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Nobody in the anime uses Lightsworns. DemonGodAsura 18:19, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Changes?

How can I change the Lightsworn table to include the 2 new TCG Exclusive Lightsworn cards?

Of course. --Dragon Slayer (Contribs • Count) 18:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
By editting Template:Lightsworns -- Deltaneos 18:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Freed the brave wanderer

I edited the section where it's mentioned. It was said that it's rare for someone to have 2300+ ATK monster on the field (2300 ATK has Freed the Matchless General actually) I wasn't sure what to write about Freed the Brave Wanderer, it's really useful that he's 1700 and the weaker is, the more monsters he can destroy.

Also, about Realm of Light: Are shine counters useless if Realm of Light card is sent to the graveyard (by activating another field, for example)? Does the ATK increase that has already been done keep or not, that is.

Removed items from section

I removed a lot of the jank stuff from the suggested cards list. New players to Lightsworn don't need that kind of misleading info. --Lifisali 00:32, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

  • Outstanding Dog Marron it can help prevent Decking out, Pot of Avarice to add cards to your deck and draw power, Blasting Ruins = easy 3000, Gorz is just like Tragoe.Altyrell 00:36, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
...and they're all terrible cards in a Lightsworn deck. --Lifisali 00:44, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
And yet you result to insults. Just because you and your group of friends think that they might be bad, however that doesn't mean that EVERY Lightsworn User thinks that. Again, notice how i can have a discussion without needing to add insults.Altyrell 00:48, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I guess it'd be better to lie then. I removed the "insult" to stop any feelings from being hurt anymore. It's not just my group of friends, it's the rest of the competitive players of YuGiOh. Your opinion doesn't justify putting janky cards on a suggestion of cards in the Lightsworns article. At all. --Lifisali 00:53, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
I think he already knew that you removed them because you believed that they are bad choices. When Altyrell asked you to explain why you were removing them, I think he wanted you to explain why you thought they were bad choices. You've said that they are bad in a "Lightsworn" Deck, but not why. Two people screaming "they're good choices" and "no, they're bad choices" into each others ears isn't going to reach an agreement. Altyrell has said why he though they were good, so you should show the same courtesy and explain why you disagree.
From what I understand "Lightsworn" players typically aren't interested in trying to stop themseves running out of cards. They aim to win before that happens. So "Pot of Avarice" and "Outstanding Dog Marron" would be useless in that situation. They also slow down how quickly you empty out your Deck, defeating the purpose of using "Lightsworns". I think I have seen successful varients run "Pot of Avarice", but I could be wrong. All variants tend to mill more than 1 card a turn, so "Outstanding Dog Marron" isn't really going to save you, if you were trying to avoid Decking out. -- Deltaneos (talk) 01:40, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
  • However, Lightsworns themselves will not cause you to deck out even if you run 3 Marrons. If say you have 3 left and Judgment on the field, then you will mill the 3 and that would be it, they will then return to the deck. Just because JD requires 4 cards doesn't mean that having 3 or less will cause an automatic Deck Out. You only Deck Out if you are not able to Draw a Card. Pot of Avarice can also help add your Lumina's, JD's, Celestia's and other cards back to your deck.

And if not every new player can afford JDs and necros and things like that, then simply tell them to build a budget deck or a cheaper archetype to start. Junkalicious (talk • contribs) 00:24, December 3, 2010 (UTC)Junkalicious

I didn't explain why they're bad because it's common known knowledge among any good players. Gorz is no good in a Lightsworn deck because A) his mechanics are terribly situational which no duelist wants to have to rely on to get advantage from him and B) Why use a lesser card when you know there is a far better alternative? Tragoedia says hiiiiiiiiiii. Gold Sarcophagus is no good in LS either. It's like waving a obnoxously big carrot in front of a horse's face. Having to wait a few turns to get what you want out of it doesn't make it aby better either. You might as well tell you're opponent whats going to happen in the future, so that they can prepare a counter play in time to make your efforts meaninigless. It can and WILL happen. --Lifisali 01:57, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
"Gorz" can be used in "Lightsworn" Decks. You can see two "Lightsworn" Decks that included "Gorz" top 16'd here. That may predate "Tragoedia", but having a better alternative doesn't make something totally unusable. I remember people dissing "Chaos Sorcerer" when it came out, because "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" was better.
The above Decks also used "Pot of Avarice" and "Gold Sarcophagus". -- Deltaneos (talk) 03:00, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Here's a more recent one that also shows them using those three cards. And this is even after "Tragoedia's" release. -- Deltaneos (talk) 03:34, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
I still can't find much evidence of people using "Blasting the Ruins" with "Lightsworns". -- Deltaneos (talk) 03:15, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
They're still not the greatest idea of card choices to use in Lightsworn. Pot of Avarice defeats the purpose of the milling, and only useful late game where Lightsworn would be most at risk of decking out. It's just not good. Gorz was only used because there was no other alternative at the time. With Tragoedia's release, he became obsolete. They began to use Tragoedia instead, because it's simply straight up better then Gorz. The only Lightsworn players that would use Outstanding Dog Marron and Blasting the Ruins are nobodys, because seriously, no one uses them in any deck. Competitive decks, anyways. --Lifisali 03:55, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, I totally forgot; Lightsworn is totally dead this format. That just vanished from the tier radar right after the recent banlist hit. And they are not coming back anytime soon. Heh, to thik all this arguing was for nothing. Oh well. --Lifisali 04:01, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
"Gorz" didn't become obsolete after "Tragoedia's" release. That last link I gave is from a more recent SJC, after "Tragoedia's" release and you can still see people using "Gorz" there. I agree with the removal of "Blasting the Ruins" and "Outstanding Dog Marron", but "Pot of Avarice", "Gorz" and "Gold Sarcophagus" are repeatedly being used by people coming in the top 16 in SJCs. That's enough to call them popular choices.
Whether "Lightsworns" will be popular or not this format isn't an issue. It still an official archetype and deserves an article. This argument discussion wasn't a total waste of time. It should at least be enough to remove 2 cards, which are considered bad choices from the list and (maybe?) establish that "Pot of Avarice", "Gorz" and "Gold Sarcophagus" are noteworthy choices. -- Deltaneos (talk) 04:18, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
"Gorz" is used more than "Tragoedia" sometimes because LS don't exactly have much for hand advantage, what with using "Honest", "Foolish Burial", "Lumina", etc. LS don't use Synchros too often outside of "Plaguespreader Zombie" tunings, so the level manipulation of "Tragoedia" is a little useless. "Gorz" provides a protection from a field nuked by a "Brain Controlled" JD, or any other field nuker. With both "Gorz" and "Trag" being Limited, it's widely considered that you run "Gorz", "Trag", and at the least side "Battle Fader". DemonGodAsura 08:29, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Have a field trip. If you payed any attention to the going ons of the meta, you should've heard that Lightsworns are dead. Like, dead to the bone. They no longer exist as a meta deck. So this "discussion" is moot, as these cards no longer have much use in said Lightsworn deck that no longer is. --Lifisali 04:42, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

In Regards to Outstanding Dog Marron

This is a discussion i had with Fredcat100 a while ago over this issue

"I am curious why you think Marron can outstand all Lightsworn's effect? --FredCat100 18:52, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
Outstanding Dog Marron can help prevent Decking out, through the Lightlord's own effect or if they go up against a Mill Deck. Because whenever Outstanding Dog Marron is sent to the Graveyard, it gets shuffled back into the Deck, even if Judgment Dragon were to mill 4 while only having 3 cards left in the deck (although if it gets to that point, something is wrong). Outstanding Dog Marron can still be useful.Altyrell 19:05, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
So that dog can be very useful against all that effect, include being discarded over and over in one effect? Or do it have to sent along with other cards, like Jain sent 2, and Marron come with one card or Marron come twice? --FredCat100 20:04, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
If it gets discarded, milled, returned from the Remove Play Zone to the Graveyard, it would get reshuffled into the Deck. If say Lumina mills 3 Marrons, all 3 would be returned to the deck. No matter how the Dog is sent to the graveyard, it would be reshuffled into the Deck (unless removed from the game). Even if you discard the Dog due to too many cards in hand, it would be reshuffled into the Deck.Altyrell 23:21, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
Lemme get this straight, Marron can return as many time as it had been discarded, and is affected to stop almost each Lightsworn's effect (included Judgment Dragon)? --FredCat100 23:28, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
Yes and No, say 2 Outstanding Dog Marrons and Wulf got milled, the 3 cards would be milled by Lumina. Wulf would get Special Summoned, and then the 2 Marrons will begin separate Chains to return themselves to the Deck. OR say Card Destruction happened and you milled an outstanding Dog Marron and several other cards, the Outstanding Dog would return to the Deck. IF you have Lumina, Judgment Dragon, Jain and Lyla on the field and you only have 3 cards in your Deck (all 3 being Outstanding Dog Marron's then Lumina's effect will activate milling the 3 and then they return. Lyla's effect goes off milling the 3 Marrons which will then each return to the Deck. Jain's effect goes off and then mills 2 of the 3 Marrons, whom will then return to the Deck. Judgment Dragon's effect will go off milling all 3 Marrons however you cannot Deck out from a Lightsworn's Milling Effect (including JD) due to lack of cards, then the 3 Marrons will then go back to the Deck. Now if a Marron gets removed due to the effect of either Disappear/D.D. Crow or something similar then they would get removed from the graveyard and thus can no longer return to the Graveyard. Card Rulings: Outstanding Dog Marron = "When "Outstanding Dog Marron" is sent to the Graveyard during a chain, its effect is activated after the current chain resolves (just like "Witch of the Black Forest")." and Card Tips: Outstanding Dog Marron = "If used in a Lightsworn deck,its effect makes it less likely for the player to Deck Out." I hope that cleared things up.Altyrell 01:54, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
So now I understand, since you said that Marron can be using once, not at the minute it hit the graveyard. Thanks for information. --FredCat100 01:58, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
Welcome and that is correct. They will return after any current Chain(s) that placed them into the Graveyard Resolves. Like if Celestia milled any number of Marron's then before the Marrons are able to return to the Deck, Celestia's effect must resolve.Altyrell 02:03, March 3, 2010 (UTC)"

That is why Outstanding Dog Marron actually can help. Also, why in the blue blazing skies does every Duelist have to defeat their opponent's as fast and quickly as possible. Why can't Duelist just duel for fun and have a nice slow relaxing Duel?Altyrell 03:01, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

That's for Pro, Altyrell, and leave the general list alone, the fun duelist can add that for their own decide, not Pro. So stop revive the list or we will report you to admin and maybe result in banning your account depend on admin's decide. --FredCat100 03:06, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Because Lightsworn decks are meant to be fast-paced. If they were created with the intention of playing slowly, then they wouldn't mill your deck to the extent that they do. Besides, a duel doesn't have to be slow in order to be enjoyable. --Blue (Talk) 03:10, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, thanks, Blue... I like that thought. --FredCat100 03:07, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
These "Suggested Cards" sections aren't netdecks. Entry level players getting acclimated to the archetype may find them useful while they build experience and refine their play. I know that I would run "Marron" if I were beginning to run LS, as I've never used them before and I'm not used to milling my deck away. "Marron" allows entry level duelists to get used to milling without running through their decks entirely. DemonGodAsura 08:23, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Fine, report me all you want FredCat. I no longer care. For the record, i could care less about "Pro Duelists" as i am actually LOOKING OUT FOR THE ROOKIE DUELISTS. You know, the ones that cannot afford Judgment's, Celestia's, etc for their Lightsworn Decks as they are STARTING and LEARNING to use their Lightsworn Decks. One last question that i will attempt to ask while attempting to remain calm: "When did this SITE become "caterers" to PROFESSIONAL DUELISTS ONLY?Altyrell 13:11, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
  • if you want to build poorly built decks, then thats fine. Anyways, I take back what I said abotu Gorz. As it seems, this format, since Trag is limited, it might not hurt to use a Gorz. Heard this from a reliable source. :P --Lifisali 23:59, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
  • Seriously you guy's are arguing about how fast or slow or fun the duel is? It is what it is, just because someone is faster or slower, doesn't mean they are pro or not, and if we adopt that mindset how can we tell who really is good and who isn't? - Soundeffex 14:04, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • ...You're asking THAT question? Obviously, it's the people who win. The people who decide not to use terrible cards in their decks because they know better then to do that. A good Lightsworn player would know not to use Outstanding Dog Marron in their deck because, well, it's down right bad. It doesn't contribute to the rest of the deck synergy wise and is a terrible card to draw into. Blasting the Ruins, more or less the same reasons, except LS don't need to win with Burning. --Lifisali 17:03, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Archlord Kristya

Wouldn't the Archlord stop players from using Judgment Dragon when they need it? Neither player can Special Summon monsters while Kristya is up and JD is a good Special Summon. --Narutoheroes12 23:18, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well, the strategy is to SS what you need to, then summon "Kristya". DemonGodAsura 02:09, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Other Cards

Shouldn't these cards be in?

  • Light Spiral - It fits with the Lightsworn theme and also hurts the opponent.

Odd Strategist 22:29, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Taking out the trash

It is my belief that the Lightsworn article contains many surperfluous, unnecessary, and useless card recommendations. In addition, large sections of the strategy articles give out advice of a most n00bish variety. Despite my efforts to fix these issues, my edits have been repeatedly reverted. Who thinks the Lightsworns article needs clean-up, and that bad recommendations should be removed?

Nobody- (talk • contribs) 00:09, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

There ARE just bad cards. Very few people would recommend Shapesnatch for this page, and some of the cards currently occupying it rival it in magnitude of uselessness.

Nobody- (talk • contribs) 00:09, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

  • No offence, but you being the sole defender for the information on this page doesn't really do it any favors considering your track record and... well, way of thinking. But, anyway, most of Nobody-'s edits are from a competitive point-of-view which supports deck strategy. I don't think random cards should be displayed as "optional support" just because they happen to be part of the archetype. Either argue a valid use of the cards you're in favor of, or leave it alone.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 00:17, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

The cards in the optional support section are a laughing stock, and deserve to be removed. Simply because you opt to run an inefficient 50 card monstrosity, you are not entitled to inflict your bad opinion upon others. The goal is to help anyone making a Lightsworn deck make a good one. Not make some sloppy trash.

Nobody- (talk • contribs) 00:16, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Still Deck Lists needs decent cards written on them. If we have some newbie player playing Jenis, they will be pissed off because it isn't good or isn't helping them. List needs changing to actually good cards so new players don't waste their money on unneeded cards. IonCharge (talk • contribs) 00:17, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

  • The only one whose insulted anyone so far is you, at Nobody-. You can't have your way just by whining and crying about it. If you have a valid opinion, argue it. If people can't afford it, well, that's too bad, but there's YVD and other such ways to get around it, and if you're going to use that argument, then you should at least use suitable examples that can be replacements for these "hard-to-get" cards. Not any random shit you feel like putting up. By the way, we already saw your nerdrage, so changing it doesn't help much now.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 00:25, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, lets learn the archetype. Lightsworn revolve around milling cards. Jenis does not mill cards herself, and does minor burn damage. Not needed. Rinyan returns cards from the grave to the deck, defies the point. The equip card needs an elidgilbe target and the gain is neglible. LS are about dropping their boss as quickly and as fast as possible. Jenis, Rinyan and Sabre slow the concept down. If new players waste their cash and time on this they will basically be ripped off. They will also complain about the wikia being trash and say how that it suggests bad things. List the right damn cards. IonCharge (talk • contribs) 00:25, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

I find it very interesting that you feel the need to erase things other people have written. People agree with me, most of the recommendations in that article are pointless. GTFO.


Nobody- (talk • contribs) 00:29, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Nobody sums it up. Junkalicious (talk • contribs) 00:30, December 3, 2010 (UTC)Junkalicious

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