Talk:Requires Synchro Monsters as Synchro Materials

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Rename

Why not just "Requires Synchro Monsters as Synchro Material"? --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 08:46, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Well, would that include monsters such as the Majestic monsters and Power Tool Dragon then? If you want "Requires Synchro Monsters as Synchro Material", you could create that and make this a sub-category to it. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 13:54, February 4, 2017 (UTC))

For the first question, I think yes.

For the second, I think we should just rename this one, since a Synchro that requires multiple other Synchros is almost always an Accel Synchro, making it redundant imo. --XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 14:10, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Well, I can think of at least 8 Synchro Monsters that require other Synchro Monsters as Synchro Material but are not "Accel Synchro Monsters" (I'm using the term here to mean any Synchro Monster that needs at least 1 Tuner Synchro Monster and at least 1 non-Tuner Synchro Monster as Materials, but are not named as such in the 5D's anime, like Crystron Phoenix), and only need at minimum 1 Synchro Monster as a Material. I think we can make "Requires Synchro Monsters as Synchro Material" for those 8 Synchro Monsters, but leave this one as a sub-category for all "Accel Synchro Monsters" for the sake of linking from the Accel Synchro Monster page. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 19:14, February 4, 2017 (UTC))

I'm with XBrain. Lucafriz, I think you're just complicating it.

Just one modification on XBrain's suggestion: "Requires Synchro Monsters as Synchro Materials". Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 19:28, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Really, the only categories I think are necessary are: "Requires (a?) Tuner Synchro Monster as Synchro Material" and "Requires (a?) non-Tuner Synchro Monster as Synchro Material". The lists for each of these categories are very small, and therefore don't justify the existence of this page that merges the 2.

If I had a Deck that was capable of churning out Synchro Monsters with a Tuner and/or Synchro Tuner on the field, I'd be more interested in seeing what Synchro Monsters specifically require non-Tuner Synchro Monsters. If I really wanted to see monsters that needed a Synchro Tuner and non-Tuner Synchro Monsters, the list is small enough that they could be found very easily anyway. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 19:50, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Rewording what I said earlier. We need 2 categories to be used on the card pages:

① Requires a Tuner Synchro Monster as Synchro Material

② Requires a non-Tuner Synchro Monster as Synchro Material

Those would be put on all the appropriate card pages. Then, we rename this category "Requires Synchro Monsters as Tuner and non-Tuner Synchro Materials". The contents of this list would be ① and ②.

We have another new 2 categories as well: "Requires a Synchro Monster as Synchro Material, but only as a non-Tuner" (relevant because of "Goyo King" and "Crystal Wing Synchro Dragon") and "Requires a Synchro Monster as Synchro Material, but only as a Tuner" (this category's creation may be delayed, because I don't think we have any Synchro Monsters that fit that category). The contents of the first list would be ②, excluding any results that fall under ①. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 00:08, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

I think separating into those two properties is excessive and overkill. A Synchro that requires another Synchro is notable from both a gameplay point of view and as a curiosity. Separating them like that is only practical for a limited set of circustances which probably wouldn't be the reason people search those Synchros. They are not too many to be all checked for the exact Materials in more than some minutes anyway, so I see no practical advantage in splitting them that way.--XBrain130™「Ｘ（エックス）ブレーン１３０」 02:47, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

When you have a Deck that relies on Synchro Summons for its power plays, but does not have enough resources to invest in a Synchro Tuner, that difference becomes more important. "D/D" and "Shiranui" are great examples of this, as they can readily bring out "Crystal Wing Synchro Dragon", yet aren't strong enough on their own to invest in Synchro Tuners for bigger plays. So, the interested player wouldn't want to comb through a list of Synchro Monsters that mostly lists "1 Synchro Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner Synchro Monsters" in order to find the viable "Goyo King" and CWSD. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 02:55, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

I have to agree with XBrain here, I don't think a "Requires a Tuner Synchro Monster as Synchro Material" category is necessary at this point unless there's a Synchro Monster that requires a Tuner Synchro Monster as a Synchro Material, while at the same time doesn't require non-Tuner Synchro Monsters as materials. All such monsters that would go into this proposed category have "Accel Syncro" material requirements, which would lead to complete overlap with a "Requires Synchro Monsters as Tuner and non-Tuner Synchro Materials" category (which is a category you're proposing for monsters with "Accel Synchro" material conditions). I think just having this category, for all Synchro Monsters that require at least 1 Synchro Monster as Material, is sufficient. Perhaps we can talk about more specific categories, like what you are proposing, when we get more Synchro Monsters with the described traits. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 03:14, February 5, 2017 (UTC))

However, I do think that there might be some use for a "Requires a Synchro Monster as Synchro Material, but only as a non-Tuner" category, for reasons that UltimateKuriboh mentioned, namely, to find monsters like Goyo King and Crystal Wing, without having to comb through "Accel Synchros", but I think we should reword that proposed name to be less clunky. If there is a need for a category for monsters that need a Tuner Synchro and non-Tuner Synchro Monsters as materials, we could have a "Requires Synchro Monsters as Tuner and non-Tuner Synchro Materials" category, and link to it from the Accel Synchro Monster page (this was the reason I rreat4ed the initial category in the first place). If you want to go thrat route, I propose creating a new category and keeping this one intact as a master category for all Synchros that need at least 1 Synchro Monster as a Material (making the other proposed categories into sub-categories of this one). (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 03:27, February 5, 2017 (UTC))

There is a Synchro that needs a Synchro Tuner but any Non-Tuner. Battlewasp - Hama the Conquering Bow. it's anime only at the moment, but who know's when that will change, especially with a new collectors pack around the corner. I'd Rather keep the lists seperate. If someone is searching for a list of such synchros, they are probably looking more for one type than the other. Similar as they are, I think they are distinct enough to warrant separate listings. Dread (talk • contribs) 03:34, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

Wow, I actually forgot about that one, lol. I'm more concerned about there not being enough such Synchros though, to justify a separate category, as such a category would invariably overlap with one that is designed to list all monsters with "Accel Synchro" materials. Not to mention that given the only example of a Synchro Monster that needs a Tuner Synchro but at the same time, doesn't require non-Tuner Synchro Monsters is anime-only, what are the chances people will be looking for something like that? Typically, as UltimateKuriboh mentioned, you would tend to search for such monsters because you want to know what options your deck has, but if all such monsters IRL are also "Accel Synchro" monsters, your better off searching in a category for "Accel Synchro" monsters rather than a "Requires a Tuner Synchro Monster as Synchro Material" category. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 03:37, February 5, 2017 (UTC))

While true, there is a trend of Synchros requiring a Synchro Non-tuner and a generic tuner (I guess ARC V didn't want to do full Accel Synchro, never made a big deal about Synchro tuners like Rank Up did when it debuted in ARC V)

Even if the lists look redundant, most searches will be for one over the other, so half of it will be irrelevant nearly 100% of the time.

Dread (talk • contribs) 03:46, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

The way I approach things when creating a new category is to wait until there's at least 2 cards that'll fit in the new category without totally overlapping with another related category (unless that other related category is a parent category). That way, I know there's at least some sort of trend for cards with that particular trait the category is made to detail. I make exceptions if the category is something like Cannot be Special Summoned from the Extra Deck or Allows multiple Pendulum Summons, where there is likely a good strategic interest for players in knowing about cards with those traits. I'd wait a bit and see if there are more monsters like Hama before making the category you're proposing, but that's my opinion. (Lucafriz (talk • contribs) 03:54, February 5, 2017 (UTC))