Forum:Alector, Sovereign of Birds Q

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Does Alector, Sovereign of Birds's effect negate all effects, even effects that activate in the graveyard? For example, if I special summon Alector from my hand, negate Sangan's effect, and destroy it, would it's effect still be negated in the graveyard? Tmcmullen08 (talkcontribs) 23:50, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

It's the same as Forbidden Chalice, Sangan activates in the Graveyard, so it doesn't get negated. See also: Card Rulings:Forbidden Chalice. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:58, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Same idea with "Skill Drain". --FredCat 23:58, March 15, 2011 (UTC)
Not really; Alector will negate Exiled Force (Activates on the field), but Skill Drain will not. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:00, March 16, 2011 (UTC)


Exiled Force's tribute is cost, so Cost first won, THEN effect activate, which is in Graveyard, you failed. --FredCat 00:05, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
Exiled Force's effect Activates on the field and Resolves on the field, even though the card is in the Graveyard.
Sangan's effect Activates in the Graveyard, and Resolves in the Graveyard. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:34, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

@falzar: read the ruling on Exiled Force in relation to Skill Drain. Exiled Force does not resolve on the field, it resolves in the grave. So effects like Skill Drain, Alector, Sovereign of Birds, and Destiny Hero - Plasma DO NOT negate Exiled Force. you failed on this one.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 10:26, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Skill Drain and Plasma look at where the Card is during resolution, not the effect. This is why they both don't negate Exiled Force.
I've already explained it once, and Deus agrees with it, so see Forum:Debris dragon and lonefire.
@Both: Don't worry about failing this one; even HHT got it wrong. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:29, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

but you are incorrect. this is an official judge ruling on any effect, with the exception of effect vieler, that negates monster effects on the field. it is even on the rulings page for exiled force here, as well as in the rulings for exiled force on netrep. you are wrong, so stop trying to argue the point. you are nothing more than a troll that thinks he knows everything and has a right to dispense incorrect information whenever he wants just because he somehow has become respected on this site. however you are still wrong on this so just give up.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 10:33, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Quote the rulings, and have a link to the source.
I said Skill Drain and Plasma will NOT negate Exiled Force.
If Alector's effect is used on your own Exiled force, and then after that, you activate your Exiled Force's effect, it WILL be negated on resolution. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:35, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

alright then.

from the rulings page on exiled force, under mentioned in other rulings:

  • Skill Drain: "Skill Drain" does not stop you from activating Ignition Effects, but it does negate their effects as long as the Effect Monster remains on the field...If you activate "Exiled Force"'s effect while "Skill Drain" is active, "Exiled Force" is no longer on the field and you can select and destroy 1 monster on the field...

also from netrep.net[1], a database of all official rulings:

  • [Re: Skill Drain] "Skill Drain" does not stop you from activating Ignition Effects, but it does negate their effects as long as the Effect Monster remains on the field. If you Tribute "Cannon Soldier" to itself while "Skill Drain" is active, "Cannon Soldier"'s effect is not negated because "Cannon Soldier" is in the Graveyard, but if you Tribute a different monster for "Cannon Soldier"'s effect, then the effect is negated and your opponent takes no damage. Likewise, if you activate "Winged Minion"'s effect while "Skill Drain" is active, "Winged Minion" is no longer on the field and its effect resolves. If you activate "Exiled Force"'s effect while "Skill Drain" is active, "Exiled Force" is no longer on the field and you can select and destroy 1 monster on the field. If you Tribute "Paladin of White Dragon" to activate its effect while "Skill Drain" is active, it is no longer on the field and you can Special Summon "Blue-Eyes White Dragon". If you Tribute "Great Dezard" while "Skill Drain" is active, it is no longer on the field and you can Special Summon "Fushioh Richie".

That is the best I can do for now. it will take some time to get the official ruling from the US Judge Support staff, as I will have to email this query to them and wait for a response, but I can tell you right now that they will agree with me on this.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 10:40, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, that proves my comment on "Skill Drain and Plasma will NOT negate Exiled Force."
Now try disprove my comment on : "Alector's effect is used on your own Exiled force, and then after that, you activate your Exiled Force's effect, it WILL be negated on resolution." -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:43, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

alright, in that respect you are correct, because Alector is acting in the same way as effect veiler. but you were wrong to say that exiled force resolves on the field. it does not. and only effects that specifically target a monster to negate its effects can negate exiled force, not braod spectrum effects like drain and plasma that do not target. so in this one instance, as well as plasma and any other effect that would specifically choose exiled to negate, exiled force is negated. that still does not change the fact that exiled force resolves in the grave, not on the field.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 10:52, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Minor correction. I said:
Exiled Force's {effect Activates on the field and Resolves on the field}, even though the {card is in the Graveyard}.
I didn't say Exiled Force itself (card) resolves on the field.
-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:55, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
So you're saying that the bird is little advanced than those two that negated on the field in general? --FredCat 10:57, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
Alector, Sovereign of Birds, Forbidden Chalice, Effect Veiler and Debris Dragon negates effects that activate/resolve on the field.
Skill Drain and Destiny Hero - Plasma negates effects ONLY IF the card is face-up on the field during resolution. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:58, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

upon further study of exiled force in this situation, alector would not b e able to negate exiled force, as alector only negates an effect until the end of that turn, and since alector's negate effect can only be activated on your turn, and exiled force is activated on your opponent's turn, I am still right and you are still wrong that alector can negate exiled force. and on another note, as I am writing this, I have already sent an email to US Judge Support for a clarification on where Exiled Force resolves from, which I am still confident that they will agree with me that Eiled Force resolves in the grave, not on the field.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 12:30, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

I said: "If Alector's effect is used on your own Exiled force, and then after that, you activate your Exiled Force's effect, it WILL be negated on resolution."
Though, we could have just asked ATEM to check this.
As I corrected from above, ask for "where Exiled Force's effect resolves from", not "where Exiled Force resolves from". -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 12:32, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

dude, you are an idiot. Exiled Force and its effect, for the purposes of where it resolves, are on and the same. There is no difference as to where the effect resolves and where the monster is located. If a card has an effect that resolves, that effect resolves from where ever the card is currently located. If said card is in the graveyard, then its effect, if appropriate, resolves from the graveyard. Every certified judge, whether certified under UDE or Konami, knows this. It is a given fact. For you and your cronies to say that Exiled Force resolves on the field and not the grave not only proves that you are not, nor have you ever been, a judge, but also that your rulings knowledge is flawed and therefore no one should be taking what you say as absolute truth. The only reason that any one respects you around here is that you post so often to these forums that people who do not know any better assume that you know what you are talking about. Therefore, you should stop your posing and leave the answering of rulings questions to actual certified judges. As for the email that I sent to the judge support program, I will be sure to not only post a copy of it here, but also pass along a copy of it to the administrators of this site so that they can add it to the rulings page.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 12:56, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

You've gone too far. I'll leave ATEM to continue this. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:01, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

I've gone too far? You are the one perpetrating fraud here, and then continuing to argue the point that you are right and I am wrong, which is clearly not the case. You are just upset that someone finally had the guts to stand up to you and call you on being the fraud you are.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 13:08, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

"Effects always activate and resolve in the same place. It doesn't matter where the monster is. " QUOTE from Deus Ex Machina, from Forum:Debris dragon and lonefire. Exactly what I said above. If you don't believe me, you don't believe Deus either. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:11, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

If that were the case, then every judge ruling at every tournament since the game came out is wrong, which I highly doubt. When I get a response on that email I sent, we will see who is wrong here (which I fully expect to be you.)

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 13:13, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Just ask for "where Exiled Force's effect resolves from", not "where Exiled Force resolves from"
or both; just be sure to ask if they are separate.
And what if I'm right? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:17, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

The effect of Exiled Force and the card itself are not separate, and there is no point in asking what if you are right, because you are wrong.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 13:24, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Quick google search gives me: [2], [3], [4]. So... you said something about, if I'm right (along with those 3 links), then "every judge ruling at every tournament since the game came out is wrong", or did I misread it. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:26, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

and not one of those can be confirmed, as they are merely posts to forums such as this. and none of the people creating those post can be confirmed as certified judges. The official ruling I was given, as a judge at a regional qualifier (as well as a few of the side events at the 75th sjc), is that Exiled Force's effect resolves from the graveyard. I will have absolute proof of this once I get my response back from US Judge support. You know, people like you really piss me off. You act like you know what you are talking about, but when some one comes along who actually does know what they are talking about, you fight and fight and fight to prove yourself right, even bringing up manufactured evidence to try and prove your point. How do we know that those forum posts you linked to where not ones you yourself put up? Just give up and accept the fact that you are wrong and drop the issue already.

Macroman2011 (talkcontribs) 14:02, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Effects are not attached to the cards that created them. If a card activates its effect and then it is moved to another zone before the effect's resolution, the effect is not moved with it. It remains in the same zone that it was activated. So it resolves there. This is the reason why we say that effects activate and resolve in the same place. You cannot move an activated effect to another zone whatever you're doing to the card that created it.
So if you activate the effect of a face-up card on the field, and that card is then moved to another zone (either by its effect's cost or by the effect of another card that was chained to it) the effect stays and resolves on the field.
Now the effect negation of Skill Drain and pals is different from the effect negation of Effect Veiler and pals.
The effects of Skill Drain, Destiny Hero - Plasma, Brain Golem, ect all read that they negate the effects of face-up Effect Monsters. This means that they only negate effects that activate on the field but the card is also on the field as well when the effect resolves. Something like Lightsworns, ect. If the card is removed from the field the effect is not negated, even if it resolves on the field.
The effects of Effect Veiler, Alector, Sovereign of Birds, Debris Dragon, ect read that they negate the effects of Effect Monsters on the field. This doesn't mean that the card must be on the field but the effect. So even if the card is removed from the field, the effect is still negated. So the effects of Exiled Force, Lonefire Blossom, ect that activate on the field but the card is not on the field when its effect resolves (on the field), the effect is still negated.
And for official proof, this Ruling explains how the effect is separated from the card that created it after its activation: "After "Trap Stun" has resolved, if a Trap Card is activated and "Emergency Provisions" is chained and sends that Trap Card to the Graveyard, then the Trap Card will still be negated. This is because the effect of the Trap Card is still on the field, even though the Trap Card itself is not."
ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 16:40, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

falzar is absolutely right about that. Cards like exiled force/stardust/lonefire(if cost on self) just activate on the field, tribute itself. They also resolve on the field. It doesn't matter that the card is in the graveyard by now. And every card like that works the same way, not only alector and veiler, also forbidden challice, black salvo and debris dragon, it is all the same. (at least the last 2 mentioned even have that also in their rulings) -dest- (talkcontribs) 16:53, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

Therefore, that bird has same type-halt effect as "Mask of Restrict", only added the effect negative. As I pointed it out earlier in this article, Alector stripped the power and memory out of that card as soon as his owner declared a choice. So all the card that was activate only remembered to be sending into the Graveyard and dead with no true purposes (as effect negated completely). Exiled Force failed to take down a massive monster (IE; Blue-Eyes White Dragon) as well as many other cards that required to going to Graveyard in order to fulfill it effect's requirements. --FredCat 19:04, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
Not really, Mask of Restrict prevents the Activation tributing in the first place, this prevents the initial Activation. These cards just negate effects.
Anyways, I just noticed something. The only thing he said was just stuff like "Every certified judge, whether certified under UDE or Konami, knows this. It is a given fact." and "If that were the case, then every judge ruling at every tournament since the game came out is wrong"; he didn't even provide proof/source. It's not even a quote, it's all made up, from his own 'logic'.
Whereas I have Deus, ATEM, -dest-, pojo, tcg player, Card Rulings:Trap Stun, WC10, WC11, TF04, etc. all backing it up.
Hence, it is obvious who the "troll/idiot" that is "perpetrating fraud" really is. "Therefore, you should stop posting" and leave the answering of rulings questions to others who actually know what they are talking about.
-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 03:25, March 17, 2011 (UTC)