Forum:Earthbound Gods

What does it mean exactly if you can't select Earthbound Gods as attack targets? (also if it's the only monster you control) EHeroFlareNeos 00:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

we'll just have to wait till they come out and get a ruleing... till then i think if thats all u have and i can't pick it, then i can attack ur LP stair on, but thats just me... other wise thats kind of unfair... cuz u can have just that out and have a ton of cards so we can't knock ur field spell out is a cheat move i think

--Dark Stardust 06:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Can't be slected as an attack target, obviously means they can't be attacked. And correct the opponent can attack the controller of an Earthbound Immortal directly, if it's their only monster. It's the same case with "The Legendary Fisherman", while "Umi" is active. -- Deltaneos (talk) 11:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Officially, your opponent cannot attack directly. The "Earthbound Immortal"s and "The Legendary Fisherman" are different:

• The "Earthbound Immortal" cards read, "Your opponent cannot select this card as an attack target.", which is like "Marauding Captain" or "Command Knight". He is still there, but he cannot be selected. If he is the only monster on the field, then there is still a monster, so your opponent cannot attack directly.
• "The Legendary Fisherman"'s OCG text reads, "This card cannot be attacked.". This means that he is (effectively) removed from the field when considering attack targets. When your opponent is attacking, there are (effectively) no monsters, so he can attack directly.

--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 20:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

really?

isn't that that same thing, i can't attack it, so what can i attack? thank about how u say that... cuz thats kind of a cheap shoot with a 3000 atk straight at u, but u can't do a thing about it? come on!

--Dark Stardust 01:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

When an Earthbound Immortal is the only monster on their field, you can attack directly. It was even shown on the anime... — This unsigned comment was made by Akyrix (talk • contribs) 05:10, 22 March 2009

If a monster needs another monster on the field for it's effect to work, like: Solar Flare Dragon, Marauding Captain, Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder, Soul-Absorbing Bone Tower, Magician's Valkyria, Command Knight, and there the player controls only 2 of those monsters (of the same kind), then the opponent cannot declare an attack. (But he can still attack to player's LP with cards like Rainbow Flower, Crystal Beast Amethyst Cat, ect).

If a monster cannot be attacked by itself (without needing another same monster), The Legendary Fisherman, Earthbound Immortals, Guardian Kay'est, ect, and the player has only that monster on the field, then the opponent can attack to player's LP directly.

It doesn't matter how a cards lore reads. "Your opponent cannot select this card as an attack target", it's the same as, "This card cannot be attacked".

ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 07:23, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Konami has officially ruled that you cannot attack directly.

Of course there is a difference between the two texts. Otherwise, "The Legendary Fisherman" and two copies of "Command Knight" would work the same way.

Akyrix, the anime is a HORRIBLE source of rulings. Never use the anime.

--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 14:27, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Since I'm not familiar with the Japanese language (lol), if I understood correct, Konami has ruled that the opponent cannot attack if the Earthbound Immortal is the only monster on the player's field. Correct?

If that's so, then it must be an BKSS rule (according to me).

(According to you):

You say that the the rules of the Earthbound Immortals and The Legendary Fisherman are different because have different lores. Which means that if the player controls only monsters with lores same as The Legendary Fisherman's ("This card cannot be attacked"), then the player can attack directly.

Then why if you have only 2 copies of Catnipped Kitty on the field, your opponent cannot declare an attack? According to what you said, since Catnipped Kitty reads the same lore as The Legendary Fisherman ("This card cannot be attacked"), then the player should be able to attack directly.

The same with Solar Flare Dragon.

....And I agree that the anime is a HORRIBLE source of rulings!

ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 16:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh. Interesting.

An hour of searching later, and I think I found a much more subtle difference:

• The "Earthbound Immortal", "Marauding Captain", and "Command Knight" all mention the opponent, not the opponent's monsters.
• "The Legendary Fisherman" and "Guardian Kay'est" mention the opponent's monsters, not the opponent.
• "Catnipped Kitty" and "Solar Flare Dragon" do not mention either, so it is implied to be the opponent, not the opponent's monsters.

This wouldn't be the first time that the opponent is not the same as the opponent's monsters. For example, on the old Judge List it was ruled that "Threatening Roar" ("Your opponent cannot declare an attack this turn.") prevents "Elemental Hero Wildheart" from attacking, but "Swords of Revealing Light" ("...monsters your opponent controls cannot declare an attack.") will not stop "Silent Swordsman LV5" from attacking.

--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 21:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

• This division of the monsters, according to their rulings, is the best logical explanation. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 05:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Pardon? --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 19:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
    • I'm not asking something! :S ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 20:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
      • I know, but I don't know what you mean. Do you mean you agree with me? Or do you mean that the rulings determine how the effect works, not the text? I could honestly read it either way. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 20:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
        • I mean that it has to do with the difference if a card affects "the opponent" or "the opponent's monsters" (as you said last). It hasn't to do something with "the number of monsters needed for the effect to work" (as I said first), nor with how a card's lore reads the effect (as you said first). In other words I agree with your last opinion. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 21:33, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

• pardon, but what if your opponent uses Patrician of Darkness' effect to redirect your attack to a "non-declarable attack target"? Are you still considered to have chosen the "non-declarable attack target" as an attack target? Or did you do the attacking and your opponent did the declaring of a target?
• specifically, with the Earthbound God, it reads "Your opponent cannot select this card as an attack target." so does that mean if you attack, and your opponent (for whatever reason) redirects your attack to the Earthbound God, will the attack follow through? I think technically you're not selecting this card as an attack target, you're opponent is. Is that correct? or am I preaching jibberish? xD

~Specter (cow_pi) 22:17, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

The rulings for Patrician state that you can't override the effects of The Legendary Fisherman / Solar Flare Dragon etc. and redirect the attack to them when their effects won't allow it. Aserik 22:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

• but those cards specifically prohibit attacking by the opponent's monster. Would it still work for a card that prevents an opponent from selecting an attack target? is the opponent still considered to have selected the target? or is the controller of the Patrican considered to have selected the target?

~Specter (cow_pi) 22:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

• • If a card prevents player B from selecting a monster on player's A's side as an attack target, and player A has Patrician of Darkness in play, then when player B attacks, player A chooses the attack target but he cannot choose the monster that cannot be attacked. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 22:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

The opponent and his monster are the ones who are attacking, so it's always considered to be the opponent who chooses the attack target, regardless of who actually chooses. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 02:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

• okay, thanks :D that's what I was asking.

~Specter (cow_pi) 17:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)