Forum:Illegal side decking

My question is more of a tournament penalty question than a rulings question, so I put it here. I would appreciate only active Konami certified judges answer this question, as only they would have the proper knowledge to answer this question.

Before I ask the actual question, I need to set up the situation a little bit. I know that according to the official Konami tournament penalty rules, a player gets a game loss if they unintentionally leave side deck cards in their main deck and the error is not caught until after the start of the match and that players deck has already been presented to their opponent for randomization. During a local tournament, my opponents during the semifinals admitted at the end of the match, after he had beat me 2-0, that he had sided in a few cards against me since he knew I was playing removal. Since I had not seen him touch his side deck (I know he hadn't because I had not either and as soon as game 1 was done we immediately started game 2), I asked him when he had sided the cards in as I had not seen him do it. He said that he had done so before the start of the round. Th tournament organizer gave my opponent a game loss and had us play a third game to determine the winner of the match. I obviously do not agree with this decision. I think my opponent should have been given a match loss, given that he intentionally sided in against me before the start of the match and that this fact was not discovered until after the supposed end of the match.

My question is this; what is the appropriate minimum penalty if a player purposefully sides in against their opponents deck prior to the start of the round, both during swiss rounds and top single elimination rounds?Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Macroman2011 (talk • contribs) 15:06, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not an official judge, however, according to the 'Penalty Guidlines feb 2011' http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/gameplay/penalty_guide/KDE_Penalty_Feb2010.pdf

"Game loss:"This penalty is given if the judge believesthe infraction was >unintentional (See Unsporting Conduct for Exception)." where a Game state is irreparable", Though depending on case, a Match loss can happen too.

However "Disqualification:

A Disqualification is the most severe penalty that can be given. A Disqualification is merited for severe infractions that require the player to be removed from the event or the venue. A Disqualification is usually given when a player intentionally> breaks tournament rules, or as an upgrade from previous penalties. Judges will need to investigate carefully to determine whether or not a player is intentionally breaking a rule."

Thus Disqualification seems the correct response.-Resk (Talk) 16:04, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

I am also not an official judge, but if it was intentional he should be DQ'd according to Resk's post. However, the fact that he Side Decked beforehand would only affect the outcome the first game, since in the second game he would have been allowed to side deck anyway. Since his infraction really only broke the rules for the first game, I feel that a Game Loss is appropriate, if not correct. I agree with Resk though that Disqualification would have been the correct response.

Out of curiosity, how did the third game go? Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 16:47, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

that is what I believe should have been given, but I really need to know from an active judge if that truly is the appropriate penalty for the situation or not. it would mean a difference between a $5 prize for third place and a $15 prize for second place in the local tournament I participated in last night.

Macroman2011 (talk • contribs) 16:50, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

He ended up winning the third game as well, but I was not really doing my best as it was late and I was just trying to end the game as quickly as possible either way. by the time the third game started, the store had already closed and we were being pressured to end things quickly so the store owner could go home. And while technically only the first game of the match was affected, the fact that he did not use his side deck in game two means the same error that affected game one would also have affect game two. Besides, from my understanding of the tournament penalty policies, intentional disruption of the game state via cheating (in this case siding in cards against a deck before the start of the round) should result in a disqualification. But I really need to have an active judge answer this question to know for sure if I am right or not. As I said, if I am right, then I placed second not third, which means that I won not $5 but $15 instead.

Macroman2011 (talk • contribs) 16:57, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

Okay local tournaments aren't held to same standards as an official Konami tournament. Unless you attend YCS, Shonen Jump, or Regionals these standards aren't really upheld. You have a better chance of calling someone out on unintentionally leaving cards from their side deck to their main deck in upper division tournaments. Local tournaments don't EXACTLY follow these official rules. Those rules are mostly reserved for official tournaments NOT local tournaments as many would have you believe. While it was wrong of the person, there isn't anything you can do about it. Next time say something to whoever is in charge, otherwise there is nothing you can do. Automation44 (talk • contribs) 08:08, March 21, 2011 (UTC)Automation44

@auto: while it was a local, it was still a sanctioned event and therefore still held to the same standards as a regular event. so you are wrong to say that there is nothing I can do, since there was a judge present for most of the tourney, just not towards the end where he was really needed. And if you had been cheated out of money as I was, I am sure you wold be raising all sorts of hell to try and get that money back, as I am sure anyone would. if you read the tournament penalty policy, no where in the deck error section (the section relevant to this situation) does it say that these rules only apply to larger tournaments. Besides, unless you are an active Konami judge, you really have no say in what recourse I do or do not have.

Macroman2011 (talk • contribs) 10:35, March 21, 2011 (UTC)