Forum:Is Maxx C an overrated card?

Out of curiosity, do you think Maxx C is an overrated card? Someone on Pojo was telling me it is not really that good of a card, as Effect Veiler and DD Crow are far superior cards and anyone using Maxx C in their decks are wasting card space. What do you think?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 23:43, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

No it is a good card. Why wouldn't it be? Your opponent either stops what they are doing, or You build up massive hand advantage. Almost every deck that tops YSC runs it if that counts for anything.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 23:50, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

The card has dropped in price by like $10. It didn't see much play at Long Beach. Veiler and Crow are better since they can stop plays. Even though you are -1, at the right time, those cards can completely break up a combo, especially if you capitalize off it next turn.

Maxx C is good, BUT it doesn't really STOP oppenents like Veiler or Crow does. A lot of decks can do like massive summons each turn, but if you use MAxx C, they will just xyz into Leviathan Dragon or something and end. All you did was redirect the summon, instead of stop it. 148.100.224.97 (talk) 15:48, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't that the point though, to get them to stop massive amounts of summoning? I wish I had a Maxx C in hand when I was playing against an Infernity deck player who special summoned about 12 times on his first turn.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 23:56, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

lol, well infernities are different. If you drop Maxx C against a good infernity player, they'll make you draw through your whole deck, resulting in a Deck Out. Also, you're talking about wishing you had Maxx "C" in your hand on the FIRST TURN against an infernity deck THIS ONE TIME. Even if you ran 3 copies of Maxx C, that's like a 13% chance of drawing it, meaning you might draw it 1/5 duels first turn.

Also, wouldn't it be better, to just drop the veiler on their Infernity Mirage? I think that veiler would be a lot more useful in a lot more situations.Trak0don (talk • contribs) 01:55, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

no mirage tributing itself is a cost and the effect resolve off the field LG talk My own Guides 03:40, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Then I just simply wouldn't draw my entire deck.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:37, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

You have no choice to draw with Maxx "C", it's not optional.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 07:39, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Maxx "C" isn't overrated. It's a nice card to have in the right situation, which happens quite a lot in today's game. However, it cannot stop the opponent unlike Effect Veiler or D.D. Crow, meaning it's not quite as good. yes, you generate lots of hand advantage but the massive combo the opponent makes may just be enough to OTK you. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 10:12, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

^upvote. also thanks for the clarifiication on mirage, i had no idea. The "C" is good, but not worth $100 a pop. Might as well invest in tour guides. Trak0don (talk • contribs) 13:19, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

So would you say that instead of having 3x Maxx C in a deck, it would be better to have 1 Maxx C and 2x Swift Scarecrows?

Oh, this is already counting one Veiler in the deck.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:53, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

How about 2-3x veiler? 1 MAxx C and maybe one swift scarecrow? 69.124.240.127 (talk) 19:40, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

See, I've had Veiler become dead draws at more than 1. Plus, his effect cannot help on guards that activate their effects in the graveyard, nor can he disable Dokka's or Rabbit's effects due to that priority shit.

Scarecrow can at least stop my opponent from attacking me.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 22:52, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

LP is one of the biggest most useless resources in this game. The only time LP damage matters is when it'd reduce yours to 0.
Maxx "C" is very useful, it stops TGU plays as well as many other plays because the opponent doesn't want you to draw, if they continue then you get some card advantage over them.
Effect Veiler is also useful, instead of relying on your opponents ability to understand card advantage it just stops plays altogether.
Swift Scarecrow should only be used in stall decks and maybe Piper decks. All it does is negates a single attack, nothing happens to the monster and the opponent will still be in control of the field. Topdecking it isn't that useful, neither is drawing it while you're in control of the field. What good is a negate direct attack going to do when you have a strong field and they summon something to get rid of that? Not to mention most of the time activating its effect would be the same as setting it, and you can do that to Veiler and Maxx "C" too.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 01:21, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but if you have absolutely no cards on the field and a Swift Scarecrow in your hand, you can at least stop your opponent from attacking you for one turn. Effect Veiler and Maxx C cannot do that.

Let me ask you this then, for a Samurai deck, which would you say is more effective, Swift Scarecrow or Gorz?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 03:59, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

You can stop your opponent from attacking with Maxx "C" and Veiler too, it's called Set.
And Gorz without a doubt, there's not even any competition there.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 04:12, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Swift Scarecrow is useful, I won't deny that. But in most decks (save stall/burn) it's a waste of valuable space. Hell, with how fast Six Samurai move, Scarecrow is a wasted draw. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 05:08, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Here is the thing though, the other day, my opening hand was United, Dojo, Reborn, 2x Maxx C, and Double-Edged Sword. As such, Maxx C did me absolutely no good. Even Effect Veiler would not have been able to do anything. Had I had Scarecrow, I could have at least stopped my opponent from attacking me that turn.

And the video I was watching said Hand Traps are becoming outdated, a thing of the pass. Is that true?

I guess while we are at it though, the video said Skill Drain is a better card than Maxx. Is that true? My only problem is, even if it is true, I don't think it would suit a samurai deck due to my monster's effects. What do you think?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:19, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. You are considering skill drain in a Sam deck, but not dark hole?--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 15:27, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

wait what? skill drain SUCKS in sams. wanna replace maxx? Crow it up LG talk My own Guides 15:36, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

SMH, Dr. Kain, don't use skill drain in your samurai deck. I can see why you might want to run 1 copy of swift scarecrow. If your opponent somehow blasts through your set up of shien or whatever else you run, maybe scarecrow will be good. I doubt it though.

You have this tendency of basing the usefulness of a card on this one situation that happened one time, you shouldn't do that. Honestly, Maxx C could be a +1 with a tour guide play, yeah, great.

I have a question, what type of yu-gi-oh do you play? Do you just play on DN? Do you play at locals? Regionals? YCS? I would seriously only main deck one copy of Maxx C right now, and side deck the second one as a rule of thumb.

I still stand by my idea that Effect Veiler is better. As mentioned above D.D. Crow is really good too, and super cheap!

Of all the cards mentioned, Gorz is still the best choice. Yeah you run your continuous spell cards in Samurais, but Gorz is still the best OTK stopper, which seems to be what you're trying to counteract.

Maxx C would be second best, but ONLY if you are able to draw an out to whatever your opponent is doing, if you don't draw an out to whatever your opponent is doing, it's nearly useless.

I kind of like the idea of running Bottomless Trap Hole over Maxx "C" or Effect Veiler. It's a great way to break up plays, and is almost never dead, unlike Maxx "C". Trak0don (talk • contribs) 17:28, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]I have a question, what type of yu-gi-oh do you play? Do you just play on DN? Do you play at locals? Regionals? YCS? I would seriously only main deck one copy of Maxx C right now, and side deck the second one as a rule of thumb.[/quote]

My goal is to one day play in a tournament, but first I would need to find one around me, find the time to do one, and also, be able to replace my proxies with actual cards. I doubt it would ever be a YCS though, unless one happens to come to Colorado.

I did play on DN, but I stopped due to getting too frustrated with the people on there (see my discussion topic on it if you want details).

I'm trying to make my deck be competable against everything and anything, but also not trying to down right copy someone else's.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 18:15, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

You will NEVER be able to make a deck that counteracts everything and anything. If you could that deck would be instantly Tier 0 and it'd be rare to see someone play another deck.
Stick to the strengths of the deck, spamming and whatnot. For a six sam deck I would say Effect Veiler is better than Maxx "C" since stopping your opponent from using their effects (one of the Six Sams weaknesses since they can't negate them... yet) would be better than drawing a few cards.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 01:53, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]You will NEVER be able to make a deck that counteracts everything and anything. If you could that deck would be instantly Tier 0 and it'd be rare to see someone play another deck.

Stick to the strengths of the deck, spamming and whatnot. For a six sam deck I would say Effect Veiler is better than Maxx "C" since stopping your opponent from using their effects (one of the Six Sams weaknesses since they can't negate them... yet) would be better than drawing a few cards.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 01:53, April 7, 2012 (UTC) [/quote]

I know, it's just that I see some of these decks on DN that seem to be unbeatable because they can destroy you in one or two turns, but even when I try to copy their decks, I am unable to repeat that process. In fact, it seems that no matter what deck I build, Samurais are the only ones that are not destroyed instantlty. Like, I created this Shinato centered deck today, it has Shinato, Djinn, Tour Guide, Agents, Hyperion, the staples for magic and trap, but it is way too slow, even with Pot of Duality, Manju, and Advanced Ritual Art in it. It took me way too long to defeat my opponent (oh yeah, yeah, I decided to go to DN to try this out) in the first match, and then the second match up was against someone using a Macro Cosmos deck and it was worthless against it.

You might be right, so I'm going to try my Samurai deck with 2x Veiler, 1 Scarecrow, and 1 Maxx and see how it fairs. I want to be able to at least get the $1 I spent on ebay out of Scarecrow.

As for Samurai's weaknesses against monster effects, that is why I have both Landoise and Stardust (with Starlight Road) in my extra deck.

I'm also trying to figure out ways to effectively use Invoker, which is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 03:34, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Well, if you could special summon 3 lvl 3's, one being a tuner it'd be possible, but considering what it uses it'd barely be worth it.br> 121.222.170.239 (talk) 14:25, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Dueling Network is the breeding ground of random decks. I remember you ranting about people using these total troll decks (like reversal quiz OTK lol) and really annoying you. I suggested you get some people you knew and dueled over Dueling Network. Maybe we should make a forum page where we post our DN account names on there, so we would have actual people to look for when we're on DN. Good idea? IDK.

Also, you are setting a paradox for yourself by making a deck that is entirely unbeatable and at the same time not used by anyone else. If it's unbeatable, everyone will use it.

Also, that Shinato deck sounds really cool! I know that I go through deck building cycles, where some days I have really good ideas for decks, and other days my builds are complete garbage. Stick with it! It takes more than testing in two games to figure out the kinks in a deck. Play the deck over and over and over until you figure out its exact weaknesses.

If you really want to make a competitive deck, you need to see what the metagame really is and have cards in there that counteract it as well.

It's very complicated but it all starts with not giving up and testing to see what is better. If I were you, considering to buy cards in real life, I would test them out A LOT on dueling network before you made any decisions to purchase them.

And you'll only get quality play testing in IF you have a solid group of people to test against, so you can accurately figure out the strengths and weaknesses of your deck.

If anybody on the wikia wants to add me on DN to playtest, I'd be down for it. My screename is arroganceclause Trak0don (talk • contribs) 16:07, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

cool idea, my name is Lazer01 but i wont be on for some time. also, what do people here think about x-sabers? and especially that frigging awesome 1 for 1 they have access to? LG talk My own Guides 17:14, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]If I were you, considering to buy cards in real life, I would test them out A LOT on dueling network before you made any decisions to purchase them. [/quote]

Fortunately, for this deck, except for Tour Guide, I physically have everything I put in it.  :-)

BTW, I like your idea about DN. My user name is Dr Kain.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 17:23, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

X-Sabers are an interesting deck, they can synchro spam, get infinite LP or kill your hand. It's strange that we don't see them much now days.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 03:15, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

coolz what about blackwings? LG talk My own Guides 03:50, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

BW aren't as versatile, all they can really do is synchro spam or Icarus Attack, they don't have many BW specific synchros either which doesn't help especially since they have a card that can banish from their grave to SS a BW synchro.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 04:18, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

errm no. BWs can really hate backrows. they can be surprisingly destructive thanks to DAD and icarus attack. also 3 BW synchros IS enough ,though Blackwing - Gram the Shining Star WILL be AWESOME if released. LG talk My own Guides 12:51, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Back to Maxx "C" reasoning.

The 'top 3' decks main D-Fissure.

D-Fissure stops Effect Veiler.

Maxx "C" can be chained to D-Fissure, giving a turn to set hand etc.

Against Rabbit, D.D. Crow does nothing, as does Veiler, while 'C' still works as normal.

Against Inzektors, they don't target, so D.D.Crow 'might' hit them, while Fissure stops veiler.

Against Wind-Ups, they are vulranble to Crow, but can make Leviar really easily :3,

-Resk (✩)( ☯) 16:07, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

what do you guys think of wind-ups with no loop? i curruntly play them and open with 2-3 xyz first turn LG talk My own Guides 16:32, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

If by no loop you mean no hand loop chances are you're still using the basic zenmaighty loop just without Hunter.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 07:59, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

So let me ask this, if you have Veiler in your hand what card do you use him on when it comes to a Wind-Up deck? Do you use it on Hunter, or do you wait until your opponent has summond Zenmaity? Also, I'm assuming the moment your opponent summons a Hunter is when to toss Maxx C into the graveyard, right?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:50, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Unless they normal summon hunter I would use it on the Wind-Up Zenmaighty that gets hunter out. Maxx "C" at the same time to make sure that it's at least a 1 for 1.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 21:52, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

All right, new question, is Maxx C obsolete now? Or is it still worth having 2-3 in a deck?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:47, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

No, it is not obsolete.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 15:58, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

But isn't it better to have 3 Veilers in your deck now instead of 2 Veilers and a Maxx C?

It's funny how the responses on this board are the opposite to what those on Pojo's boards say.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 01:07, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

I run both. And I don't see how it better NOW. Veiler is no better now than before the loss of priority. But now that Dragons are gonna be seen more in the meta, and since veiler doens't hurt them as bad, I would stick with C.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 03:16, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

How does Maxx C do anything against the new dragons? Sure, if they use REDD's effect, but that can be done in any dragon deck. I do not see how Hieratics make any difference.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:13, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

It lets you (hopefully) get to cards that DO stop them, like Trag, gorz, fader, or scarecrow if you run them. And I never said Hieratics specifically, I was talking about Dragon chaos decks. (I've bean seeing alot lately)--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 10:26, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Kain, pojo is seen as one of the worst places to go for advice on this game. Most of the players there don't know shit.
As for Veiler vs Maxx "C", Maxx "C" is not dead nor will it ever be unless something better comes out, sometimes a +1-2... is better than a -1 that stops a small play.
And then there's decks where Veiler is almost completely useless like Heros, Chaos Dragons, Lavals (although it does stop librarian), Dark Worlds, etc.
Either way I prefer to main 2 of both with 1 of each sided OR 3 veiler and 2 Maxx "C" with 1 sided (depending on the deck), this way I can have the best shot of getting a useful one.
121.222.167.78 (talk) 15:23, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, Pojo users say the same about here.  :-p

Anyway, so you think if you could only use 3 cards, it should just be 2 Veilers and one Maxx C? What about Card Car D though? Would that be better than either of those?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:41, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

It depends on the deck, some decks need guarenteed draw power over negation, I know Lavals and Hieratics all run triple Cardcar D because they need to get their combo off. Most also use 2-2 of Maxx "C"'s-Veilers, I guess since prio is gone for the moment 2 Veilers 1 Maxx "C" would be better but then you've got to think the meta will change to reflect that more people are using it and veiler will likely be less useful.
So to answer your question:
For now 2 Veilers and 1 Maxx "C" or 3 Veilers (I don't like only running 1 of a card unless I have to), this will possibly change as more decks start swarming without the worry of Maxx "C" and without being hurt too much by Veiler.
And those two are more cards to stop plays where Cardcar D is more to start yours.
121.222.167.78 (talk) 08:09, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Honestly, if you aren't sure of the utility of a card, check out the decklists of the winners of YCS's. Most players who are top 32 are maining 2-3 veiler and maybe side decking one Maxx C, but most players dont side it anymore.

Obviously, having the potential to get tons of draws off of your opponents special summoning, but it isn't that great of a meta call. Many people are saying that veiler got a lot better since the ignition effect ruling was changed.

It's not any better, You could veiler when they called priority, and you can vieler now. Either way they lot their effect.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 18:55, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Also, I'd like to point out that neither of these hand-traps actually solve the problem of your opponent having field presence. Veiler is a -1 to stop an effect and Maxx C just lets you draw. You need an answer to what your opponent is doing in your hand or on the field REGARDLESS. Effect Veiler is more versatile in a lot of matchups which is why people will either be running 2-3 veiler and 1 or zero maxx c. Trak0don (talk • contribs) 14:36, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Card Car D isn't as good. Remember Kain, he point isn't Advantage, it's survival. Card car D won't save you from a potential OTK. And Trakodon, Maxx C doesn't remove field precents, but it cal let you draw cards that can, like Gorz and Trag. --Helix-king (talk • contribs) 18:53, May 5, 2012 (UTC)