Forum:Mass Driver

Who else agrees with me that the root cause of popular burn ftk/otks is Mass Driver, not Substitoad? I agree that Substitoad is a powerful card, but it only has a few ftk/otks to its name (by my estimate, 2, and one involving said Mass Driver). Please post your thoughts and comments. I believe that the banlist should be revised to either limit or semi-limit Substitoad, and ban Mass Driver altogether NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 23:42, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I would have preferred a ban on Ronintoadin. That way, frog decks would still work. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:45, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

...ok but my question was people's opinion on Mass Driver. That is a good point though, that would have removed the ftk potential of frogs at a minimal cost to strategy NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 23:48, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

well, I'm sure the question was answered in Forum:Mass Driver or Toad. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:52, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

well it sort of was, but i was thinking more of trying to get support for a less unreasonable banlist NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 23:55, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

If I told you I agreed with you, would it change Konami's banlist? No.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 00:39, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

First of all, I support their decision to ban the Toad. A monster with an effect like that should really say 'once per turn'. However, Mass Driver is a huge problem. By my count, there are nearly a dozen OTKs/FTKs associated with it, maybe more. Unless it is hit, more and more OTKs will just keep popping up. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 00:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Driver isn't that threatening yet in my opinion but I'll wait and see. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 00:50, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, not threatening, but yet Dimension Fusion and DMoC are banned because of it (though the REAL problem there was Spell Economics). Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 00:54, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Spell Economics is fine. There isn't really a lot of spell cards that pays life points. Now someone prove me wrong. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 00:55, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm not saying they should have hit it. I'm just trying to point out that it was the only reason the loop worked. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 00:59, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. Now that makes sense. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 01:01, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

It really is a gross loop, isn't it? Tryed it out on WC2008 and it took like 20 minutes to do 8000 damage, lol. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 01:03, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't that much gross but it's really long just to pull it off. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 01:20, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it does take forever. Like 20 minutes to be exact. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:05, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I wish the computer had a concept of quitting, i did the Athena-Darklord loop and it took like a hour >X( --Helix-king (talk • contribs) 05:13, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the computer has only quit against me once: when I completely Yata-locked it. Even right now it won't quit. I removed it's Exodia peices, it has no way of getting them back, I keep play Fiber Jar, I have 7650 LP while it has 800 LP, and none of his monsters have over 1400ATK. The duel has gone on for over 200 turns. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, isn't Diamond Dude the reason Dimension Fusion was hit :/. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:19, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe. I assumed it was the DMoC loop since it's more dangerous. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:21, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think DMaC and Dude were both involved. Because it isn't exactly easy to gain 2000 Life Points. Not sure... Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:22, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

It may have been both for both reasons, but I think the loop was the main reason. I always hear about how Konami hates OTKs. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:25, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I doubt they hate all OTK's. Otherwise it would have been Mass Driver that got hit and not the toad >.> Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:27, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Why wouldn't they hate all OTKs? They all do the same thing: make the game too fast and less enjoyable. Konami doesn't go for Mass Driver because the things used with it are good on there own. Mass Driver has only one use: OTKs. but, I still say it should be banned too because more OTKs are sure to come. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:33, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

They really hate DSF. He got hit like that.Err, I can't show you what "that" is. Use your imagination. :p Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and they hate him because he's a Mass Driver that puts up a fight! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Easy 4000 damage. That can make or break the game. Seriously, who thought that card was balanced???? Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

No idea. That's the one card I never want to see come back. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:43, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind if Pot of Greed came back. Then the archetype wouldn't suck so much. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:45, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I want Fiber Jar back. Too awesome to be banned. Trade it for Mass Driver! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

A card that can easily re-set the game. Yeah, because that's SO not broken :/ Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:49, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

There are many ways to stop it. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 05:56, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Not enough.. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 05:57, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

O RLY? Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:01, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:02, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Not convinced? Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:06, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:07, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

... Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:09, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

:/ Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:10, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Stardust Dragon thinks your MST is not a threat! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:13, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Macro Cosmos says otherwise! Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:13, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

What's this?! Betrayed by your very own Imperial Iron Wall! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:15, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

It's too bad Jinzo ruins all the fun! (Fun Fact: Macro Cosmos and Imperial Iron Wall can wreck Froggy FTK decks. Irony or conspiracy?) Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Conspiracy. Also, I beat one with Necroface and D.D. Dynamite. Proved that you don't mess with Macro decks! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:20, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

That's epic. MACRO FTW Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:21, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Possibly the only deck that can stop all of the current meta! Except for those darn Glads, nothing seems to hurt them! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:24, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah IKR?!?! G.B. Hunter isn't much help when you're Gyzarus spammed... Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:25, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah that's why Prime Material Dragon is GREAT! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:27, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I'll tell you what man, that dang ol' Rainbow Life, man just discard a card and BOOM, wombo combo man gain life points for that turn man combo with Battle Mania dang ol' wombo combo man. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:29, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Whoa, Boomhauer plays children's card games! lol, that combo is win! Rainbow Life is also very helpful against that pesky Mass Driver. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:34, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Too bad it isn't really main decked. And yay, someone liked my Boomhauer impression! :D Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:35, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a decent side-deck card. Stops OTKs and you can chain it to Giant Trunade/Cold Wave/Heavy Storm. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:38, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

But that Effect Veiler I'll tell you hwat.(not a typo). It is the future of anti-meta IMO. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Someone sure likes King of the Hill! But, yes, EV ruins most OTKs. I shoulda kept the one I pulled. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:45, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well yah the show was very underrated :( And I actually traded for mine :p Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:46, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I traded mine because I decided that I wanted an Ultimate Rare Allure of Darkness instead. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:49, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Not too bad of a trade(BTW im going to sleep I'll cont. this tommorow.) Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 06:52, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if we SHOULD continue! We've completely strayed off of the topic lmao! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 06:56, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

K back to Mass Driver. So we know Mass Driver can be an OTK and an FTK. What other advantages does it have? Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 13:28, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well....

The only thing I can think of is that it can possibly set up your Graveyard or allow to tribute a monster that you really need to get to the Graveyard. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 16:29, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Decent burn damage I guess. Although Cannon Soldier may have been substituted if Mass Driver was hit. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 19:02, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Cannon Soldier is not a pefect substitute. It's another monster that has to be brought out. It's easier to play Mass Driver than to summon all the monsters you need AND Cannon Soldier. Regardless, that's what people would use it MD was hit. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 19:06, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Cannon Soldier MK-2 could be used in a Frognarch Burn build.... But anyways, Mass Driver itself is pretty balanced. You lose field advantage with small burn damage. I think Ronintoadin should have been hit instead of toad. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 19:09, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

No, I went against a non-OTK frog deck before Ronintaodin came out, and Substitoad was a HUGE problem! Though interestingly enough, I always had the chance to use Divine Wrath on him but always forgot! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 19:15, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think Mass Driver needs to stay where it is, I agree it is somewhat balanced. And sure it can create many many OTK's, but with the exception of the Frog F/OTK, you don't really see them too often...--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 19:17, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Oh noes here we go again :P

• He isn't exactly broken because he's frog support. It's called Lightning Vortex in case you find yourself in that lock. And Divine Wrath should be main decked. It's highly overlooked.

Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 19:19, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well, this is why it should be Mass Driver that gets banned! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 21:23, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

And I wholeheartedly agree with you. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 22:10, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Now, if we could get some more opinions going... Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:22, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

lul Yeah. Like how Judgement Dragon should be at 1. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 22:42, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

No........ more opinions about Mass Driver. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:45, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well I doubt anyone else cares. What's done is done. Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 22:46, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I guess the debate is pointless now. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

If only people cared... Megadeth9887 (talk • contribs) 23:01, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well it's only one spell card that's kind of pointless a little bit now. Let's let the conversation retire. Fallensilence (talk • contribs) 01:19, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

I really needed that input from people without a personal bias towards/against me this has been a great chance to see how others feel about this situation NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 02:47, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Mass Driver has stubbed many FTKs, so it should be banned. Substitoad helped Frogs a lot, but it wasn't essential for Frogs. That way, the Frog FTK/OTK could still be played with cards like Cannon Soldier, but it's consistency would be way down. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:05, August 28, 2010 (UTC)