Forum:Metagame kills tournaments

UNLESS your'e a tourney net-decker like almost everyone who enters tournaments.

I don't know which was Konami's reason to turn an enjoyable card game into a sophisticated collection of over expensive inked cardboard squares. Perhaps their greed when they found out their game's success. What did they do to make this happen? Of course, META GAME.

I went to a small local tournament last weekend. It was much smaller than the regional I previously went. Oh god, did I have fun? I'll be honest, no. Why? SYNCHROS, LIGHTSWORNS, MONARCHS, BLACKWINGS, DARK MONSTERS, and only ONE Dragon deck. It was no fun. No one there came to have fun, they wanted the damn Dark Armed Dragon that was offered as prize (I HATE THAT CARD). Why some duelists go so down to use popular decks that are provenly broken just to win a card? It's out of my comprehension, but it just kills the interest on a fun game. Now I see gamers taking it like a serious activity and being the best is what matters (wow, this sounds like the anime, except it's now on REAL LIFE), even if that means not being original and using the same strategies and cards that are proven to win. Even if that means to absurdly spend a lot, lot of money on simple cards. And god, do they take it serious? They just don't like others playing non-meta games or cards, and feel pride on their powerful deck. Altough Konami used to discourage it by banning a lot of important cards now it seems to encourage it more than ever by allowing everyone to get them, like if the high rarities will stop them from getting them.

I'm not entering touraments anymore. I honestly have much more fun on causal friendly games, weather I lose or not. It's good when you know you and your opponent have the same possibilites to win. But it's not when someone with no interest on fun and only pride on their rare and powerful cards can beat you as soon as he draws his first hand and feels like god for pwning you. Mind you, there's a difference between Anti-Decks (anti special summon, anti effects, etc.) and Metas. Also, I don't incluide stapples and semi-stapples(Krebons, Mirror Force, Treeborn Frog, Torrential Tribute, Gold Sarcophagus) because I admit even I use a lot of those.

So, where do I come to all this? I wish to know the honest oppinion of everyone who reads this about the Metagame, Net-Decking and Tournaments. Weather you are a Metagamer or not, so long as we can be reasonable and not just shout "YA, METAGAME SUX. METAGAMERS ARE LUSERS" or anything like that. I am sure I'll get mixed responses from everyone. *Doczo 06:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Meta huh?

• Well Konami is a corporation, the main goal of a corporation is to earn money. Basically I think they could care less about "Meta" as long as its something they have directly made in a previous pack. Such as Gladiator Beasts, Which are supposedly getting a new support card in ancient Prophecy. Though whether it is main decked will be seen later. Basically what Konami will do is they will release a good archetype that ppl can Try out, in the case of those who want to build the deck right away with no help from other decks. And if the deck type catches on (Net Deckers) then they will release more support for those cards in later packs regardless of the imbalance they cause. Konami wants to earn money, you as the consumer buy into that. I of course do as well but I just play pickup games as long as I don't play GB's, They favorite them too much and its getting REAAALLY OLD.

• Now in my opinion not all meta-game decks are that cheap/overpowered. For example I will respect Lightsworn/Twilight decks due to the money you need to make that deck. Nearly everything in that type of deck is a type of Holo and the deck easily costs 200$. And if you stall long enough the LS user may actually Mill their whole deck out (Threatenings/Waboku is really funny in the late game where they are milling TONS of cards).

• Also Blackwings are not meta yet, they are good and that is proven. However because of the different play environments in the TCG I believe Twilight/LS will be top along with GB's as usual, The problem with Blackwings is that their support includes some really excellent cards but plenty of cards which fail at life.

• I will say however that Gladiator beasts are cheap because of all the support they have given them. A deck that works with cold wave that has an almost free divine wrath that is recyclable and a toolbox type strategy to respond to whatever the opponent plays. Cheap = Yes. (lots of meta decks love Cold wave, Blackwings cannot use it well enough sadly.)

• Lightsworns on the other hand mill and HOPE to get judgment dragon/Three darks for dark armed. However I believe cost should be factored in, if you have the money for this deck you SHOULD win most of the time. It is very expensive to say the least.

• Also several of the things you mentioned are not metagame decks. Monarchs are not Metagame, Dark monsters in general are not meta anymore even with the support, Synchros really aren't that broken in the TCG. Synchro cat makes a Synchro deck in the TCG look extremely weak. Blackwings probably will be pushed aside for GB's/LS because they lack several things which make meta decks.

• Blackwing Decks are very lacking in terms of "Metagame" power.
• 1) A spell and trap destruction card that CAN kill face ups. Delta crow is not as reliable as it seems, I have tested it and its an epic dead draw sometimes. GB's have Gyzarus and Bestiari, Lightsworns have Lyla. - Includes Sp/tr prevention cards like Cold wave.
• 2) Broken monster effect that can end the game. In the case of GB's, Herk or Gyzarus, In the case of Lightsworns, Dark armed dragon/Judgment/Chaos sorcerer.
• 3) A severe weakness due to the loss of hand advantage. - They swarm the field, you play Lightning vortex...Now what? They have virtually no hand or few cards in their hand to replenish monsters on the field. There is a few ways around this but its hard to recover without cards in your hand.
• 4) A majority of the power of blackwings exists in the synchros+the individual blackwings. Book of moon easily counters synchros, and bouncing the synchros is a very popular counter to them.

• Dark armed is not as much of a threat except in twilight decks now...Sure its unbalanced but the chances of DRAWING the damn thing is tough so other decks have it worse than Twilight which can just mill then reincarnation it.

• And believe me, I dislike some meta decks as well. CURSE YOU GB'S!!!! Because guess what? Everybody here runs meta, there are no "Other decks" The majority is GB's and Lightsworns and unfortunately for me, any time I play I have to fight a GB deck. At least you know some people who don't run meta, those kinds of people have long left the area where I live. And some have even tried to Net deck my blackwings...It took me two months or so to figure out a build that is semi perfect for me. I came up with a lot of the strategies after many weeks of looking at cards and different effects for combos. Unfortunately I think that I may need to put Dark armed in the deck since It just so happens my strategy gets three darks in the grave often. But either way I lose vs most GB decks (Three or four here...out of like six players.) one guy is a collector so his Twilight deck is epic shiny...and my best friend runs Exodia. Also the reason why I run blackwings now is because of the recent ban list that limited Reinforcements. My favorite type has and will always be Warriors. Second is winged beasts since Icarus attack is awesome.--Takuma. 07:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I also dislike meta, the people I regulary duel use one meta- Lightsworns. The rest of the decks are:

• Plant/gear town(my own random build)
• Zombie(my own build)
• WAter
• Crystal Beasts
• Morthtronics
• Six Sam
• CLOUDIANS(most inappropriate deck i own)
• Cyber
• Reactors
• Blackwing
• Aliens
• Dark World
• Gemini/Lycanthrope deck
• Rock Deck
• Ancient Gears

Maybe missed some out lol

I haven't really been to a tournament recently, but the last sneak peak some people broughts decks and I saw 1 GB and 2 Lightsworn, so where I play(England,Yorkshire/Nottinghamshire) isn't under meta. But i agree meta kills tournaments on the whole. If people used their own individual decks it would be more fun(e.g. my cloudians or gemini/lycanthrpe, never seen anything like it, doesn't win atm but can be made better)

Doz Bate 22:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• Yups meta is annoying but it is unlikely they will kill them effectively because more and more people keep looking for the cards in those meta decks, money talks you know? Anything Konami doesn't personally create they want to kill so you have to buy packs for your archetype. In the example of Tele-DaD and Zombies which were absolutely killed in the last ban list because they were player made and not an archetype of some sort...They tried to do something similar to GB's by limiting bestiari to decrease their power. However they instantly made a card which makes up for that loss of two Bestiari, GB samnite which is usable with rescue cat which in turn is able to search out test tiger/Herk materials. Also even though LS is powerful I think it is fair that it is that powerful, a lot of people complain about it but after looking at prices LS decks do run several hundred US Dollars nowadays, if you have the money you should win. Its just that expensive. That's just my take on it but I think its reasonable since they spend tons of money on a deck that is just "On Par" with GB's which costs a lot less. If I had to choose I would make LS though, Their card art is just nice :D.

• And yeah...Blackwings aren't meta because pretty much most meta decks can use Cold wave, and they almost always have a monster that can blow up the back row (Blackwings ALMOST got one in the form of Battlestorm however that card only works if you are winning, if it was Blackwing Battlestorm THEN it would be broken.). Did you know GB's are getting more support in Ancient Prophecy with a field spell? Look it up, Ancient Forest...><.--Takuma. 01:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

• I am an opponent of the meta myself, even though I do use synchros. I don't use 2 of every one out there though, just an updated, modified dragon/piercing beatdown that manipulates battle position to maximize the effects of Red Dragon Archfiend and Explode Wing Dragon. I also use other high ATK monsters with piercing like Mad Archfiend and Twin-Sword Marauder. And by the way, they made cards G.B. Hunter and Mirror of Curse Words to help decrease the use and power of GB's. Proof of Powerlessness is another good card.

Actually....

I hate the meta-game.It totally ruins the card game for me.In recent duels, all I've seen are Zombies(not as cool as they used to be cause they are totally abused), Blackwings, and Gladiator Beasts.I wish people would just use cards that arent so cheap.Or leasts stop centering there decks around a total beatdown.I dont mind Blackwings, but I hate it when they just add tons of cheap cards to make sure that they win.I use a Hero deck, not because it has tons of support, but because I kind of represents me.Just someone who loved super heroes as a kid.I think thats whats wrond with the so called duelists today.They have no connection to there decks at all.They just want to find the quickest way to win instead of actually using skill and cunning to overwhelm your opponents.A deck that totally destroys someone is just totally pointless.The meta-game just sometimes takes the fun out of dueling.Maybe someday people will actually want to have fun dueling instead of just trying to beat their opponent to a pulp.But I somehow doubt that

blackwings

those birds suck.there just every where i went to california 2 weeks ago and just stopped by at the hobby league i dueled 4 blackwing decks and 1 plant deck it didnt make sense.--Airbellum 07:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

First of all, you're going the wrong way by pointing the finger solely at Konami. Konami weren't the guys who originally exploited the explosive combo of Emergency Teleport and Malicious. Konami weren't the guys who went back eons of booster packs to find a way (Beckoning Light) to stop Lightsworns milling their best stuff. It's mostly the player base who perfect the competitive decks, Konami just prints the cards and reprints them in timely fashions.

Yes,its not konami's fault.i agree with the guy above me.--Airbellum 10:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

And how, pray, does the metagame kill tournaments? Tournaments imply a competitive atmosphere, no? It's only natural that people want to win in competitive environments, and they'll do that by having the best chance, be it with Blackwings, Lightsworns, Gladiator Beasts, etc. If anything, the metagame keeps this game afloat, because without this tournament structure, this game would've never held a candle to other CCGs (Though, inversely, there would be no game at all without the casual side, anime and the manga).

I'm not disrespecting the way you enjoy the game, that would probably make my whole argument moot. I don't respect the way you don't take the other side seriously. You're describing a very small, albeit very present pert of the gaming community. My opinion on net-decking? Again, it comes into that idea of 'wanting to win'. I'm alright with it, so long as the person knows what they are doing. If they can't understand the basic combos behind it, that's when it gets it ridiculous. 3-D 10:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Fighting meta a pain in the "?@

Alot of those decks you listed I don't consider Meta but what I do consider Meta I hate to fight. Not because I lose but because its just not fun. GB pulling of Herk on turn 1 after blowing up two cards with Gyz is no fun. Drawing Summon Monk then in one fell swoop swarming the field with two Dark Strike Fighters is no fun. To me Metas are the type of decks that can move so fast that there is little or anything to do to stop them. GBs for instance get a Horuslv8+Jinzo monster thats because riduclasly easy to pull out (not to mention dirt cheap to find thanks to the special edition) And with Chariot theres little to stop them. To be honest I had to create a psuedo Meta deck because I got so sick and tired of Silent Horus or Geartown Crush losing game after game and usually within 2-3 turns. I don't know if Hopeless Dragon is meta or not but at least with it I feel I stand a chance. Cept agaisnt Gravekeepers which my girlfriend runs ironically enough.

i think hopeless is a meta-deck in the ocg. Dont hate on glads, hate blackwings not that i loose its just very hard i like easy wins against thoose starter decks.But it wouldn't be fun either if there where no good cards if konami just banned dad,jd,bestiari,herk,dsf,honest,etc.--Airbellum 07:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Every Deck Should Be

• Every deck should be competitive. That would get more people interested, as their favorite cards wouldn't become out of date. How many people don't even bother going to tournaments because all they see are the same Blackwing, Lightsworn, and Gladiator decks. 3-4 decks run each tournament. Just the cards that make those decks overpowering should be hit. Maybe not banning, but ;imiting could do the trick. Messengerofthedark 09:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)Messengerofthedark

The problem with that

The thing is that the cards in question usually fall in one of two catogerys.

Either A: they are simply part of a combo setup. and as such its diffucult to justify banning since they by themselves are little value.

Or B: They are the pinnacle card of the archtype and without it the deck falls apart and lacks any real value like Judgment Dragon with LS.

Just my thoughts on it not that I'm happy about it68.40.90.250 13:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)