Forum:September 2010 Forbidden & Limited Lists

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Banned:

Limited:

Semi-Limited:

Unlimited:


http://www.yuginewz.com/2010/08/yu-gi-oh-september-1st-2010-banlist_13.html http://manjyomethunder.twoday.net/topics/Bannlists/


I lol 69.181.56.39 (talk) 08:12, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Should we keep this thread for further discussion of this banlist? Anyway, I'm not really sure what Konami's trying to pull here. Probably introduce much more monster destruction since in the current day, Effect Monsters are king. I can see that they're trying out Magic Cylinder at 2 to give people a better chance at turning a potential OTK (*coughCydracough*) on themselves. All this nuking is likely to result in more people using Starlight Road to protect themselves. But who knows. Now we just need to sit tight for a week and see what happens. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 09:09, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


Maybe I'm reading the card wrong..But it does say cards you control. Which I always thought that meant that they already had to be face up on the field..so set traps or monster wouldn't trigger it's effect?. DragonWater (talk • contribs) 21:32, August 29, 2010 (UTC)DragonWaterDragonWater (talk • contribs) 21:32, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Face-up or face-down, cards on your field are still cards you control. Thus they'll be valid if they're about to be destroyed by a card effect. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 02:16, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Infernity and Frog have only about 10 days to laugh. ^_^ Wynnda (talk • contribs) 12:53, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

wow I didnt expect this monster reborn and dark hole at 1 and cyber dragon treeborn and black rose at 3 Is konami insane or something?!? well at least they banned the cat

  • How did I know all the other banlists were fake? Well, they didn't have Trish. This has Trish, therefore REAL!
However, why Pot of Greederosity wasn't hit, I'm not too sure about. It was a favourite in the prediction list. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 13:10, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

SAD LIST

What was Konami thinking. I understand Brain Control and Rescue Cat, but Heavy Storm? And on top of that they bring back Dark Hole. And happened to all the Lightsworn stuff and Mezuki? At least we have two Mystical Space Typhoon. X-Sabers may rule for another format, but we'll see.

--173.2.33.70 (talk) 13:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


Brain Control?! WHY?! What am supposed to use instead in my Macro Monarchs deck? Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 15:42, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


Dark Hole does make a whole lot of sense when you think about, though, especially with MST going to two. The addition of Dark Hole to Lightening Vortex and Mirror Force AND bringing Black Rose Dragon to three makes for a ton of monster destruction, which means people are more likely to run Starlight Road. They gave us another MST likely for the specific purpose of countering your opponent's Star Road, or at least sneaking around the protection it provides. This balances out decently with banning Heavy Storm. As it would have been made useless by so many Star Roads anyway, they traded it for another MST to give us the better Spell and Trap destruction for this new format they're trying. As for Monster Reborn, I suppose they just thought a little more Special Summoning from the grave all around would help balance the added monster destruction. I'm quite impressed by Konami's tactfulness, going on the assumption that this is the real list. --Mirage --173.57.29.211 (talk) 16:43, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about y'all, but...


DARK HOLE AND MONSTER REBORN!!!! YES I HAVE NOT PLAYED THOSE CARDS IN LIKE 2 YEARS!!!! WOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 17:43, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

- Woooooooooooowwwwwww..... If this is the rel Banlist (I'll believe when its officially put out), then wow. This changes things. Cat was hit, Infernity hit (yay!), Frogs hit, and Trishula hit. With Heavy Storm gone, and MST at two, and with Dark Hole and Snipe Hunter went down, Destruction just got its head turned upside down. Starlight Road just earned itself another copy in my deck, along with another Stardust. I think they banned Heavy so they could Limit Dark Hole because Hole + Storm = evil. Monster Reborn is interesting, there goes my Call of the Haunted. In this next format I predict...X-Sabers (not hit at all, maybe when the OCG experences our exclusives), Monarchs (3 Treeborn should make them happy), Chimaratech OTK (Cyber at 3 is kinda wrong), Blackwings (Whirlwind wasn't too bad of a hit), something that revolves around Black Rose (Debris-Hime, Plants or something), mayyybe Twilight (Chaos at 2 now), and LOTS OF NUKING AND STARLIGHT ROAD!!! of course, assuming this is real...--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:07, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts, please. I really believe that they're trying to bring plants and other things up, and by hurting Frogs and Sabers, I think they really helped the meta. Now there's going to be 3x more destruction, Drew likey! --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 18:04, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout that, forgot to hit the button, it is signed now. Sabers aren't really hit, Rescue Cat was just a bonus--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:07, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Royal Oppression to 1? Lame. Looks like I have to obtain a second Mystical Space Typhoon now though, I don't know anyone with more than one... --Hozu (talk • contribs) 18:14, August 18, 2010 (UTC)


If this would be the new list, I could live with it. In an other topic, they were talking about sirocco limited and kalut semi!!! Anyway, I didn't see the bannning of Heavy Storm, and Brain Control coming. I wait till the official list. Jens (talk • contribs) 18:53, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see Brain Control but not Heavy Storm. But they had to kill Heavy Storm if they were to ever bring back Dark Hole. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 20:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Issues with List

IMO here are the biggest problems with the list:

  • Heavy Storm getting banned wasn't necessary IMO. It was one of the cards that kept multi-setting in check, and while multi-setting still isn't a good idea we now have to rely mostly on Monster effects to disrupt it. Mystical Space Typhoon to two doesn't really offset a ban to Heavy.
  • Royal Oppression getting limited was a pretty big mistake too. I realize Konami wants to push Divine Warning, but oppression was perhaps the best counter to the rampant special summoning that we see today. There was nothing wrong with this card at two or even three IMO.
  • Monster Reborn coming back. You get rid of one oppression, then bring back one of the most "HERP DERP I have game!" cards in existence? Good job on failing Konami.
  • Dark Hole coming back. Dark Hole is my favorite card, but it deserves no place in the game. Putting Torrential Tribute to two makes much more sense because it's slower, and requires more skill. Now we're going to have people go Dark Hole into an OTK. Don't forget that this helps out Machine Emperors greatly, especially Grannel.
  • Black Rose Dragon hitting the unlimited section. BRD was limited because it's an entire field nuke at your disposal, and it's quite easy to make. SalvoDAD, Debris Dragon/Dandylion, X-Sabers, etc. all make this synchro too easy summon, and it takes no skill in nuking an entire field when you are at a disadvantage.

Black Rose Dragon might be easy to make, but try coming back after doing it. If you play it wrong, you get the crap beaten out of you. I've seen players who are usually quite skilled pull BRD and lose shortly after because they failed to bounce back.

As of right now I see the top decks being (in no particular order) Machina Gadgets, Herald of Perfection, SalvoDAD, Gladiator Beasts (it's a shame they didn't limit Gladiator Beast War Chariot), X-Sabers (if the TCG gets the same list), and Quickdraw. What do you all think of the list? --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 21:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Overall, epic WIN! This has got to be the best list we've had in a loooooong time. Pros and cons with this list, as with ALL lists, but I think the Pros far out-weigh the cons.

  • 1. Heavy Storm- I Both like and dislike this. It is a far stretch when Heavy nukes an entire backfield against a deck that relies on one, as it is too easy with no cost. However, with Starlight Road out and unlimited, there was an answer to this, so it probably wasn't ban-worthy. I would have preferred that they hit Cold Wave instead.
  • 2. Rescue Cat- I think most people saw this coming. Glads no longer have a card that provides instantaneous large advantages, and X-Sabers get hit big time with this.
  • 3. Substitoad- Frog OTK was too crazy and consistent for this to stay around. Frog Monarch was also a problem. Although Frog OTK is probably dead now, frog monarch can kind of still work, though it obviously won't be as potent as it was.
  • 4. Brain Control- Thank goodness they finally got rid of this. 800 Life Points to change the course of a game, and possibly an entire match? Definitely not that much of a cost. This needed to go.
  • 5.Infernity Launcher- Thank goodness Konami got this right and didn't limit Archfiend instead. Infernities can still fight, especially with street patrol out in TCG now, but they are not much of an OTK threat anymore.
  • 6. Monster Reborn- I dunno about this one... They took away Brain Control and decided to give us an even bigger game changer in it's place. Imo, they should've kept this where it was on the banlist.
  • 7. Dark Hole- this format just became a lot faster thanks to this card, MR, and 3 Black Roses coming back all at the same time. Be prepared to start running multiple starlights in your main/side deck.
  • 8. Black Whirlwind- I don't really have a problem with this, I just wonder why... It's not like Blackwings were very dangerous in the last format, and this pretty much guarantees that blackwings won't challenge for tier 1 status unless they receive excellent support soon.
  • 9. Royal Oppression- With Solemn Warning out, it's definitely time that Oppression got hit to 1. Regardless of whether or not Warning is not as effective in stopping mass special summoning decks, 800 to stop virtually any special summon (not in Damage cal, of course) is almost insanely powerful, especially when run in gadgets or other decks that never or almost never special summon. Too strong once someone uses it when they've already gotten their field set-up. This to 1 pretty much makes it a staple.
  • 10. Trishula- Of course, like Brionac, this needs to go to 1. Way too broken, especially with decks that can bring 1 or even more of this out first turn.
  • 11. MST- Of course, with Heavy being banned, this was going to be upped. I like this a lot, though with heavy banned, I wish they had this at 3.
  • 12. Chaos Sorcerer- Slowly but surely, it seems that Chaos decks have been beginning to creep back into playable status over the past 2 years. While BLS Envoy didn't return (I know, probably won't happen, but it should), this being brought back to 2 where it belongs is a nice touch. Expect to see a lot of this card this format.
  • 13. Snipe Hunter- Not too happy with this. Doesn't really take much skill to play, and can pop any card by discarding and relying on a not so risky dice roll. Should've stayed at 1.
  • 14. Ojama Trio- So Ojama OTK and field lock decks are now possible again. Not that either will be particularly good, but still.
  • 15. Magic Cylinder- Helps Burn decks now that they can survive (kinda) with Heavy gone. Also turns potential Chimeratech or big attack otks back at the opponent and also punishes decks that pay lots of life points.
  • 16. Black Rose Dragon- Insane. I love it, but at the same time, with dandywarrior running around and getting 2 more BRDs to use at their disposal on TOP of getting Dark Hole.... Start stocking up on Starlights now.
  • 17. Goblin Zombie- Not that this tremendously helps zombies, but they are that much more viable now with this at 3 and Monster Reborn back.
  • 18. Cyber Dragon- Finally, this is back where it should be. I personally like this, though I know many don't. Easy synchro/tribute material or just simple beatdown power. Instant 2100 attacker. Chimeratech Fortress dragon FTW
  • 19. Treeborn Frog- I don't think this really helps frogs out all THAT much, but I guess they had to do something with Substitoad being banned.
  • 20. Royal Decree- Only thing I don't like about this is that Heralds will be extremely hard to deal with now. Royal decree shuts down the 1 current way to down them once they hit the field which would be counter traps, and 3 of these pretty much guarantees that they will have one to set early.
  • 21. United We Stand- I think this helps keep machines alive, and also makes beatdown decks semi-possible again.

Top Decks early this format should pretty much be Dandywarrior, Gladiators and Heralds, with Naturias and Scraps coming on late once Starstrike Blast arrives. SalvoDad can live a bit, but I don't see it winning any YCS, and don't think it will top all that much if it does at all. X Sabers will kind of compete, but not having rescue cat is going to hurt a bit, and it takes that extra bit of firepower they had that kept them on top away from them. Though they may not top, expect to see competitive zombie builds more frequently. --Phoenix25 (talk • contribs) 16:55, August 19, 2010 (UTC)98.195.180.222 (talk) 21:56, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

^ I edited your post because it was just a wall of text before =\. --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 23:08, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
Somehow Konami had the wonderful idea of chucking at us:
  1. Reborn and Call on the same list. Absolutely ridiculous, not to mention how game-changing a Reborn is.
  2. Dark Hole back on the list when we already have Torrential.
  3. Eating up Heavy Storm. I guess they decided everyone apparently ran Hyunlei or something. Trunade cannot fill the niche Heavy left behind.
As for the rest, we probably just have to wait and see. Ascriptmaster (talk • contribs) 04:16, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Substitoad being banned won't effect Frognarchs as much as unlimiting Treeborn Frog will, and the frog otk was the result of duelists abusing Mass Driver NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 17:08, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

why?

I can understand all the stuff they have just banned and limited...except Dark Hole..... the only reason I could think of this is because Dark Hole is a suckers target for Starlight Road. but then again, if you have Giant Trunade and Dark hole in your hand...its safe to say you can change the whole damn game around. i figure that this is going to be an interesting year but I wouldnt worry. oh and since Monster Reborn is back in play, this might mean a comeback in Zombies (doubtful)or this could be a great time to pick up those Gravekeepers and tell them what for. this is at least what I see on this list. if anyone would like to point out my complete stupidity please don't hesitate. I like being corrected on personal opinions. does anyone agree with my "insight". because I am about as confused as the other guy about this change in the banned list.

So you want to be corrected? How about I correct you with signing your posts, okay? Though you're right with the Dark Hole + Giant Trunade part. COuld mean some nasty FTK/OTKs. I don't know what you mean by the Gravekeeper's, though. It's not like there's going to be an entire Deck based around it. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Machines

I think Cyber Machina could be intense this time. The search and abilities of machina, the aggro and draw power of cyber, and increase the speed with draw spells. You can splash in Wisel really well if we get it. Even with overload fusion at 1, theres still future fusion and power bond. You can even throw in oilman for a draw boost. Rollout to support the unions. If you dont include solidarity you can even run dekoichi and black salvo to nuke with black rose dragon. --Joshuamaru (talk • contribs) 05:29, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I like this list lot

I think everything was hit just right. I'm already starting to play with this format; Dark Hole'd 3 Frogs on my opponent's field, which of course he deserved for putting such on the field. Monster Reborn. Oh man, Monster Reborn. This banlist REALLY is going to make things fun, although I do believe Frognarchs and X-Sabers will stay at Tier 1. I mean, now that Substitoad's out, it's time for his handy comrad to be the star of speeding the deck: Swap Frooog.---Yugioh DED (talk • contribs) 07:08, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

  • Limiting Dark Hole and MR are bad choices. Gladiator Beasts, X-Sabers, Heralds, Gadgets, Anti Meta are still in action. The rest of the decks (not including any new Archetypes) are suffering. "Synchro Cat" decks will now be called "Synchro" decks, for obvious reasons. Beasts (inc. Naturia) should still work without Cat. Frogs got OWNED! No Brain Control, No Heavy is pure WIN! Fortune Lady decks gained quite a lot in this list (e.g. Cydra, Sorc, MR, Dark Hole, MST, -Oppression). -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:23, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • Frogs most in fact DO NOT get owned...minus the "Frog"TK haha....okayanyways, Swap Frog is now the new leader of starting the flow of a Frognarch deck. I actually was just dueling my brother, who uses Frognarchs, and it still does really good. Fishborg Blaster isn't the worst choice for the deck, but then that means people will start freaking out that they need an Extra Deck for their Frognarchs. Monster Reborn is a bad move, ESPECIALLY WITH THE RANDOM UNLIMITED BRD...AND DARK HOLE! Yes, Limiting Heavy is pure win. Oh my goodness, now I can....now I can....use my spells and traps O______O, thought I'd never see that day.---Yugioh DED (talk • contribs) 07:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
  • I friggin' agree with ya DED, finally our Spells and Traps are safe to see another day... except when put against Giant Trunade and all that stuff, but still, we've got our Spell/Trap Zone more safer than how it was in the previous/current-ish format. Only thing that's not safe is the Unlimited Black Rose Dragon......... Ouch. Raining Stars (talk • contribs) 13:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC) ((Damnit, forgot to sign!))
Although with Heavy gone, and the only main S/T Removal being Giant Trunade, double MST, and the slower Dust Tornado, my Crystal Beast Deck looks like it could be doing a bit better, Dark Hole works nice for it too...--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:09, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I know what you mean. I'm actually using more continuous traps, and I'm not afraid to set 3 or Traps on my first turn. I think they're releasing more S/T / easing up on certain removal cards. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 05:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sad

That they are still limiting D-Draw. From what it seems like none of the top decks are using it. I'm fine with Allure of Darkness at one Because it is way more abusable then D-Draw, but these lists are killin me. also its been over a year since they limited RotA, they really need to give my warriors a break..... and come out with some more warrior cards..... DestinyWarrior (talk • contribs) 08:13, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


Reborn & Call

Sorry, do Konami not remember how annoying double revival is? When Burial and Call were limited, don't you remember how irritating it was to get rid of an annyoing to kill monster (a modern day example of which would probably be Heraklinos or Armor Master), then to have it revived, use up your remaining cards killing it again and then having it revived again? Seriously, double revival is going to make the two aforementioned cards really, really annoying.

Also, what's the deal with semi-ing Snipe Hunter? I thought we wanted to hit Infernities. and unlimiting Treeborn and Cyber Dragon just made Monarchs rise again. Finally, there is no way Dark Hole should be in over Heavy. Decks which need monsters in the Graveyard (Lightsworns and Zombies, for example) just got a whole lot better. Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 09:29, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

NO! Not "Heavy Storm"!

"Heavy Storm" on the Forbidden List?! How could they do that?! That is one of my favorite cards to use in a Deck, and it gets banned!
What were they thinking?! --1exodiafan1 (talk • contribs) 11:46, August 19, 2010 (UTC)1exodiafan1

From what I know, they locked this card to prevent from easily "Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode" combine, as you set two traps - Assault Mode Activate and Starlight Road, then wait a turn, activate Heavy Storm and counter with SLR, summon Stardust Dragon, and lastly, activate the Assault Mode Activate to put the dragon on the field faster than tried to Tuning some random Materials into Stardust Dragon, only being Book'f Moon. That also required less cards; 2 or more Materials (depend on level numbers) and Synchro Monster plus Assault Mode Activate while this combine required only three, well, four (two traps, 1 Synchro Monster, 1 Effect Monster). --FredCat T.P. • F.R. • J.R. • W.S. 13:06, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

But it's heavy storm! It's a staple (I think) and is so usefull! I mean, one group may abuse it, but many groups can now abuse the lack of it! In my mind, two mystical space typhoons can't take the place of a heavy storm. Kwame120 (talk • contribs) 20:04, August 20, 2010 (UTC)


Yes, it is definetely the thing that has upset me the most. I use heavy storm in all of my decks. Limited was a good place for him but banned, 2 mst's are not enough to clear all Royal Decrees and other annoying continous spells and traps. And to play not only 2 mst's but also 2 dust tornado's in a deck is just overkill. Before you know it, You get a starting hand with 4 cards that have replaced one single card. And the strangest thing is, they stop s/t destruction, but they unban Dark Hole?!?! Really what were they thinking? Jens (talk • contribs) 09:39, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Hope for reptilliannes

Maybe with 2 Ojama Trios Reptiliannes will be better. They are one of my favorite kind of decks, even though they were bad. Now one of the most important cards in the deck is semi limited, and Heavy Storm is banned, making it harder to get around those long lasting spells and traps, like Final Attack Orders and Savage Colosseum. With Dark Bribe still at 3, you can further protect those spells and traps. UshiOni (talk • contribs) 18:22, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I'm content.

There are pro's and cons to this ban list.

Pro's

Con's

  • 1. Rescue Cat has to say goodbye
  • 2. Brain Control. Should of just stayed limited.
  • 3. Black Whirlwind. What are my odds of this staying on the field with MST semi and DT at 3 and Black Whirlwind is limited to one copy?
  • 4. Magic Cylinder = getting angry when I OTK myself.
  • 5. Cyber Dragon means my friend gets his Cyber Dragon deck back for another day.

Like I said, I'm content with this new ban list. Cards like Dark Hole and Monster Reborn can finally gain some use in my competitve decks. I myself won't be using Debris-Hime and Cyber Dragon, but have a hunch this ban list might have affect them in a good way? Also mad that I have to go get Starlight Road now.

Anyone also mad that they have to get Starlight Road for their decks too? --184.96.231.210 (talk) 07:22, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I should probably grab a second, with all this destruction out here--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 07:37, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Banlist is now official, even though we already knew it was going to be... http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/ --Hozu (talk • contribs) 13:00, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Damn, it is real, but since Trishula isn't out in America yet, we can play around with three of them when they come out--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 17:21, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm pretty sure we will have to use only one. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 17:27, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

No, unless Konami decides to Limit it outside of the Banlists, and it comes out before March (which it might, since HA2 and HA3, are only a couple of months apart), than we will be able to play it at three because it is not on the Banlist, you can look yourself--BassNettoHikari2 (talk • contribs) 18:47, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

We use the same list as the OCG. Konami just doesn't put up the OCG exclusives on the TCG version of the list. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 18:53, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily, we had Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier at 3 for one whole format before he was limited...I believe Trishula will be at 3 for a format...but it won't matter because Infernity Launcher will be at 1 by then [[User:Goblinpunch787|Goblinpunch787)

Substitoad

Can someone please explain to me why Substitoad was banned? I wouldn't mind it being limited or semi-limited, but from unlimited to banned seems too drastic for me NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 23:19, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't say 'Once per turn'. He's broken beyond belief. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 23:23, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

That, and he also has a solid 2000 DEF, making him hard to kill, with an ability that makes other Frogs also unkillable. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 01:36, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Think: Substitoad + Dupe Frog + Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lord = unbreakable lock. Also, think: Swap Frog + Substitoad + Mass Driver + Ronintoadin = FTK. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 01:43, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I used both of those. I know how substitoad works. you can only have 3 Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lords, and I was never a fan of the Mass Driver version of the OTK. In my local metagame, my substitoad rarely lasted longer than a few turns, because of all of the destruction effects used NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 02:40, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

It's not meant to. That's why they call it "FTK" FIRST Turn Kill. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 02:47, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I know why it's called an FTK, because I pulled it off with Witch Doctor of Sparta and Pot of Avarice. I doubt i was the 1st person to think of making a Substitoad burn loop, but people who use it are abusing Mass Driver and Ronintoadin not Substitoad NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:17, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well said, sir. NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:51, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, if they banned Mass Driver, then Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier wouldn't have to be semi'd either. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 19:08, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Point of View

Banned:

Limited:

Semi-Limited:

Unlimited:

Jampong (talk • contribs) 03:22, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'll tell you what jampong meant when he said "no comment".

--Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 03:51, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I can see that Semi'ing Magic Cylinder is 100% Konami being selfish about their hate on OTKs. Future Fusion + Overload Fusion. "Bam, now I attack with my 9000 ATK Chimeratech Overdragon! *Magic Cylinder* "........................" "Sorry man, you shouldn't have disrespected Konami like that."---Yugioh DED (talk • contribs) 06:35, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
Which is possibly why they let Royal Decree come back to 3. They probably Semi'd Magic Cylinder to counter the clear comeback of Cyber Style, and foresaw that this will result in duelists abusing them for massive damage, particularly with Heavy Storm Limited, and so Decree came back to stop excessive burn being hurled around. Besides, don't we have some ways to nullify or reflect burn damage? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 09:38, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

How is Substitoad useless at one? NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:21, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

  • It's not "useless" at 1, but what he means is that it can do the same exact thing at 1 if they kept Mass Driver. All that's affected is consistency.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 18:23, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Oh you meant it would be pointless for konami to limit substitoad since you only need one. Well i'm against Mass Driver because of the Frog FTK. Mass Driver makes that combo a sure thing, not something that has to be set up NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 18:42, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Driver should've been banned in Substitoad's place. Mass Driver disrespected Frogs, so it replaces Substitoad, next. Atleast there's still Swap Frog and Ronintoadin. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 19:10, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

True, but those cards work best with Substitoad's effect to summon frogs NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 19:14, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't get that. They didn't even touch Mass Driver, but Substitoad. I mean, Substitoad down to 1 would slow down OTK//FTKs a lot, and banning Mass Driver is, obviously, is the smart thing to do. Mass Driver has a lot of FTKs/OTKs so, why the hell would they keep the card? If you can get an infinite amount of Summons, Mass Driver will be there, so just get RID OF IT E___E.---Yugioh DED (talk • contribs) 02:02, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's incredibly easy to pull off. Here's a simple one: First Turn set Sangan and ultimate Offering and any other traps. Sangan goes boom, adding mysterious puppeteer/gadget/fire princess to your hand. Your turn. normal summon Puppeteer, activate ultimate offering, summon fire princess, then keep on summoning until you get out all 9 gadgets and use the previously summoned ones as tribute for mass driver. Boom OTK. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:23, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

-What I meant from Substitoad being useless if they limit it to 1, is because the deck almost need only 1 to make the loop. So if it is Limited, it'll slow down the deck, but still, it can kill.

Jampong (talk • contribs) 04:52, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

A dream came true.

I was hoping I could get that pesky third copy of Ultimate Offering this list, but reality was far better and far beyond my spectations, giving up Brain Control was such a small prize to get rid of Heavy Storm (I trully despise that card) and get back Monster Reborn and Dark Hole in return. And CAT is dead!!!!, and Blackwings are even slower!!!. No doubt my spirits are going to fare better in this format, specially after Halloween and Christmas . I'M SO HAPPY!!!!!!!HouseholdCatDeity (talk • contribs) 03:41, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Please don't count on your Christmas card to be a common when it hits TCG.---Yugioh DED (talk • contribs) 06:44, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I'm with DED on this one, Battle Fader in the OCG and so was Solemn Warning and we all saw how that went.Goblinpunch787

I mean it's obvious. Hopefully Konami got too much hate from their mail and decide to listen to us TCGers. Swift Attacking Scarecrow is better than Battle Fader (unless we're talking about Frognarchs). No doubt it'll be at least Ultra/Ultimate.---Yugioh DED (talk • contribs) 08:33, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a drag when they screw up rarities, I hope they don't make it a super rare or ultra rare like they did with Battle Fader, but again starstrike blast is a booster full of shinny synchros and synchro fusions so I hope they will leave the card alone (or at least make it just a rare or a short print), if they want to even the field (and make a profit out of it) they have to make it easy to find, otherwise all they'd be boing would be stuffing retailers pockets with cash.HouseholdCatDeity (talk • contribs) 15:38, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I'm not a big fan of Staple Synchros, but I think it's time they start bringing a little more out, for variety and stuff. Also, I started a discussion on Starstrike Blast on the Forum:General Yu-Gi-Oh! Discussion page. See Forum:Booster Set Discussion:Starstrike Blast.-DED Light((Leave Me A Message?) 19:05, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't too surprised by the banlist, however Monster Reborn & Dark Hole was a bit unexpected. Ya people bitch about Heavy Storm & Brain Control all the time it really never ends, so now they can shut up since they're banned. To be quite honest, i'm pretty satisfied with new lists, not really mad since i don't use meta decks, maybe Machina, but that wasn't affected at all. But, ya this new format is gonna piss people, but thats all part of yugioh. Automation44 (talk • contribs) 03:43, August 24, 2010 (UTC)Automation44

Then you get the other side of the argument now bitching about Brain Control and Heavy Storm getting banned... Really, unless there's a phenomenon where everyone decide that a card is really breaking games in two, Konami'll get flak from at least someone when they make any change. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 11:11, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Automation, stop using poor grammar, I'm sure not many people like it, like me. Nobody "bitches" about Heavy Storm and Brain Control. Both come from Structure Decks as commons, so if those people are "bitching", then spend a couple of cents on them huh. I really don't know where you live if the people around you complain about Heavy Storm an Brain Control.---DED((Here's my page of messages and the such) 04:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

They were used in just about every Deck before August. I guess you'll never appreciate something 'till it's gone. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 04:36, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Besides, I KNOW now that Dust Tornado will be Mained more often. I run three in my DED deck now.---DED((Talk Page!!) 01:25, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Pretty good list for most people... I think...

For me personally, this list has helpped me more than hurt me. The worst that happened was the banning of Heavy Storm, and maybe the limitation of Dark Hole but other than that, the list is great. Cyber Dragon being ejected from the list completely has opened up new idea's for Cyber Decks for the first time in years as well as other assorted Machine Decks. Having three copies of United We Stand makes aggro decks and Power Tool Dragon more powerful. The banning of Rescue Cat was already obvious plus the banning of Substitoad was necessary. Monster Reborn was brought back to help even out the decks that need a boost as well as strengthen other tier 2 decks. Infernities NEEDED to get put down, but since Launcher was the only card to get hit it doesn't completely destroy the deck. Infernities will never be able to OTK of course, but it does open possibilities for Infernity Control Decks since you can still run three copies of Infernity Barrier. Royal Oppression getting hit was also a good thing since Anti-Meta was only ment for what it was designed for vs. all other decks being built for all kinds of purposes, so we can say goodbye to that for awhile. I'm not sure why Dewloren was semi'd, but I'm pretty sure there's a reason for it. I'm also not sure why Snipe Hunter was Semi'd, but as long as people like it then its ok. Since Heavy Storm was banned, Semi-limiting MST was a good move. However, with the unlimiting of BRD and the limitation of Dark Hole, we can expect alot of people to start running a second copy of Starlight Road so most people will be more cautious using BRD nowadays. Overall, the list was pretty good although somewhat confusing. With this list out, I expect the following decks to be played:

  • X-Sabers (Rescue Cat was just a bonus, so they're still playable)
  • Gladiator Beasts (Same reason as X-Sabers)
  • Herald of Perfection (Wasn't touched by the list)
  • Quickdraw Plant (BRD is at three now)
  • Quickdraw Flamvell (Justy a personal opinion...)
  • SalvoDAD (Same reason as Quickdraw, plus it has a new Synchro. Scrap Archfiend)
  • Cyber Style OTK (Cyber Dragon at three plus it has more support)
  • Machina Decks (Were already decent and are now more powerful with three Cybers. Can be converted into Cyber Machina's)

Other decks that might see more play:

  • Disaster/Hopeless Dragon (Were already decent, and new stuff comes out for them all the time AKA Dragunity Structure)
  • Morphtronics (Same reason as Machina's. Can be converted into Cybertronics)
  • Infernity Control (Barrier is still at three along with Archfiend)
  • Six Samurai Decks (Possibly, new support is coming out and its already decent)
  • Scrap Decks (Haven't heard too much about them, but they look pretty good so far)
  • Naturia Decks (Same reason as Scrap Decks. Tend to have lots of control AKA Bamboo Shoot)

Decks I will try to play with:

  • Cybertronic Synchro (My main deck. Is quick to Synchro and can fuse for Overdragon at the last minute. Very consistent.)
  • Disaster Dragon (Pretty decent, plus I've always played Dragon Decks)
  • Quickdraw Flamvell (Similar to Quickdraw Plant, but with Flamvell techs. Highly abuses Rekindling)

Feel free to express your comments and opinions on my answer to this list. :)

--Sky Scourge God (talk • contribs) 01:02, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

There was a loop you could abuse with 3 Dewlorens and Symbols of Duty. Hence Dewloren got Semi'd to break the loop. This occurred way before Dewloren hit the TCG, so it'd make sense for the TCG to Synchronise with OCG once the card made it there. The same would happen with Trishula's Limit status, unless it somehow moves out of that state before that time arrives. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 05:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • A loop huh? I know its probably irrelevant now, but just out of curiosity how did it work? btw, anyone find it hilarious how most Ice

barrier synchros turn out to be super broken? lolz --Sky Scourge God (talk • contribs) 16:36, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Can you explain why it was necessary to take Substitoad from unlimited to banned? don't give me bs about the FTK it was Mass Driver that should have been hit NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 01:36, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Here is the reason:

  • Frognarchs are very powerful, so they needed to Limit Substitoad.
  • Frog Driver was beyond broken, so either Mass Driver (the gun) or Substitoad (the bullets).

Konami got lazy, so instead of Limiting Substitoad and banning Mass Driver, they banned Substitoad. This was mentioned a few times, but it's practically buried now. Ascriptmaster (talk • contribs) 02:50, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

i know alot of you guys play by themed decks but if you play with not themed but good tactics it makes your deck very changeable that how i have mine.-collin

Well even themed decks can be changeable. In fact, some of the most poserful decks in the world are themed decks. For example, G-Beasts have been around for at least a year and a half and have been hit by the ban list at least twice, but they're still powerful. Any denial there? --Sky Scourge God (talk • contribs) 16:36, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

This list is excellent for my Chain Burn deck actually, now Heavy Storm is gone and Ojama Trio and Magic Cylinder are semi-limited. They hit Infernities and Blackwings too so I'm very happy with the list. The Horror'Speak if you dare 19:05, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah i was one of the people who brought up the potential of banning Mass Driver, and i certainly agree that for the purpose of Frognarchs, substitoad should be limited. I'm just tired of people saying how broken Substitoad is just because of the Frog Burn FTK NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 21:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

But, it IS broken. It effect is not limited to once per turn. You can summon as may frogs as you feel like. If you have out 3 Solidarities and a Wetlands, that kind of swarming is devastating. If you have out Ultimate Offering and you have a few Monarchs in your hand and a Ronintoadin, it's ridiculous. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:30, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Substitoad does have a very powerful effect, and it should be limited. However, using Ronintoadin to summon frogs from your deck and tributing them for monarchs is dependent on the number of frogs in your deck, and would cost a lot of life points to swarm in one turn. But saying that frognarchs are broken because of the way they summon monarchs is like saying that Junk Synchron is cheap because it automatically lets you summon Junk Warrior, and can make summoning Junk Archer and Junk Destroyer that much easier. Don't forget that the monarchs' effects are also being abused here because of their field and hand control being compounded in one turn. NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 22:47, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

The only thing that I'm saying is broken is Substitoad. He's BEYOND broken. He's just plain evil and unfair. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:50, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Without Ronintoadin, Substitoad can't fill the field with tribute fodder. Before Ronintoadin, no one had any problems with Substitoad. Substitoad is completely fair. Ronintoadin, Mass Driver, and the Monarchs ruined the fun playing style for Frog duelists and replaced the playing style to please a more meta crowd who has no originality or sense of when they're abusing a card's effect. With Substitoad, you can switch any monster on your field for a frog monster. Are frog monsters themselves really the threat? it's the fact that, with Ronintoadin and Ultimate Offering, you can get as many tribute summons in one turn as you want, and keep all of the monsters you summoned. Substitoad should be limited, Mass Driver and Ronintoadin should be banned. I've dueled with my own version of the Frog Burn FTK, and unlike the Mass Driver version, it took luck and skill to pull off, because my burn card was Witch Doctor of Sparta, so i had to use Substitoad's effect 20 times, with 16 frogs in my deck. My opponent was impressed, not pissed. Your only experience of Substitoad seems to be limited to meta playing styles that abuse his effect, instead of using it to get the frog monster you want. When you use it the way it was intended, you have to think carefully about which monsters you want to summon, or else you'll end up with half of your monsters in the grave or RFP just to suit your fancy. THAT is a strategy. NOT flooding the grave and abusing the effect of another monster just to abuse the effect of another monster. Before Ronintoadin, you probably only saw Treeborn Frog from the archetype, and probably never saw a dedicated frog deck. If you did, it was probably just something that slowed you down on your way to an "impressive" victory. Frogs are supposed to be about timing when to use each one's effect, not throwing them away for "better" monsters. Using Frognarchs, or the Mass Driver Frog Burn FTK is disrespectful to frog monsters and dueling in general. NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 23:17, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

No, MY only experience with Substitoad is regular frog decks with Wetlands and 3 Solidarities out. With Sustitoad, they can get any frog they want. They can get Unifrog to attack directly, or Submarine Frog to do trample. Massive damage when you add in the Wetlands and Solidarities. Before Ronintoadin, there was still a way to abuse Substitoad, I just can't for the life of me remember how to do it. If not for Ronintoadin and Mass Driver, I'd say limit Substitoad. But, because of Frognarchs and the FTK, I say he definitely needs to be banned. But, what would have REALLY fixed this problem is if they would have just errata'd him to say 'once per turn'. By the way, everyone I know brought out two copies of Witch Doctor of Sparta to do it with less frogs. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 23:28, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Substitoad is like Cold Wave - nobody really gives a hoot about it until something exploits it to its maximum potential and breaks it. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:02, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Excellent point! Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 04:34, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Before Ronintoadin, the way to abuse Substitoad took a little longer because you needed to actually summon monsters on your own to get the frogs you wanted, provided they weren't in the graveyard. Like Gadjiltron said, nobody cared until it was taken from its original irritation status to "game-breaking supercard" i.e. when Ronintoadin was released and people made loops. NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 00:13, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Along those same lines, unless you got a few special summons, there used to be little reason to use Substitoad's effect more than a few times in one turn, because Frogs didn't have the graveyard power they do now. Using Substitoad more than a few times in one turn was just thinning your deck and throwing away monsters. NOT FrogtheJam (talk • contribs) 15:36, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Question!

With the banning of Heavy Storm, the limiting of Dark Hole and semi-limitng of Mystical Space Typhoon, why wasn't Gladiator Beast Bestiari brought down to semi-limited status? --184.96.223.211 (talk) 23:26, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You've obviously never played a GB Deck.

But if you say you have, then here's the problemo: GYZARUS SPAM. Since he destroys 2 cards, then attacks, tags out, then contacts fuses again during MP2. I'd be happy if they limited him too, since you can still retrieve Bestiari with Darius. Heck, I'd be happy if they semi'd Heraklinos! But seriously, folks. The only thing keeping GBs together is the Chariot. 71.227.210.235 (talk) 23:38, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Blackwings

It was fairly unnecessary, the way they were hit. Black Whirlwind to 1? Royal Oppression tp 1? Well, either Konami was scared that they would dominate the metagame soon, or maybe people will find something to do with the new BWs in STBL. Just my thoughts.DED Dragoon((Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 02:35, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

the blackwings appreciate your sympathy. unfortunately blackwings were apparently dominating the japanese metagame. eh its just life--bwinggale(talk • contribs) 03:46, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

The presence of Blackwing Oppression is proof that the Blackwing archetype is meta that can also incorporate anti-meta elements. That wouldn't be too good for the metagame, would it? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:16, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Archetypes are made to use different elements. Although I agree that the two elements that Blackwings originally held are in the A-list in today's metagame (Special Summon and anti-meta), they were never in top tier (yeah I know..."pretty darn close"). Like I said, maybe some new Blackwings will bring them back to tier 2.|DED Dragoon((Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 19:27, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

If Black Sonic ever came out, then yes, they would. The banlist would also have to be EXTREMELY sympathetic to them. --Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 00:31, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Monster Reborn

I think this card should still be banned but if they want a revival card they should bring back Premature Burial. Monster Reborn has no cost and it can summon monsters in either graveyard, where as Premature Burial, well its like a Call of the Haunted.

I would like to object to that. These cards are good enough evidence that Premature Burial is something that won't be coming back to us. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 08:45, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Plus -like I've posted before- Monster Reborn is more helpfull for lower tiers than upper tiers, for example my spirits deck was killed when they banned Monster Reborn but is faring better as of now, since none of my spirits can be special summoned a top tier would get nothing to revive on my Graveyard, but I get to revive one on their's and punishing them for using such strong cards.HouseholdCatDeity (talk • contribs) 15:29, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Recently found this out...

I noticed Dewloren is Semi and Trishula is off. Is Dewloren being abused in OCG?|DED((Leaving Me Messages Are Often Left Here) 23:17, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

There's a loop with Mass Driver and Symbol of Heritage. I don't understand what you mean by, "Trishula is off"

--Drew-Gi-Oh! (talk) 23:21, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Sporcle Quiz

If you think you know this list, try this out.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/SuperPlayer/YGO_Forbidden

I tried it. I failed it. --GoldenSandslash15 (talk • contribs) 04:56, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Mirror Force...??

Mirror Force is a cards that should be Forbidden, cuz it can destroy a complete line of monsters. In some cases, we have a chance to summon 3-5 monsters in one turn, discading cards, paying LP, tributing..., to later on be destroyed by Mirror Force. I think this isn't fair. One card (Mirror Force) can finish with your strategy of 3-5 cards, considering that is to dificult to draw those 3-5 cards.

Necro Gardna, that is Limited, is one card that could be unlimited, cuz, removing itself from play, it just block one attack. Finish.

Magic Cylinder is Semi-Limited, and I ask: WHY? > this card, in my opinion, must be Limited, cuz it also block an attack, but it reduce the opponent's LP, without being removed from play, we just have to active it.

Exemple: You active "Power Bond" to Special Summon "Cyber End Dragon" (-4000 to you, in the End Phase), and then, when you attack, your opponent active "Magic Cylinder" (Total = -12000 to you), or "Mirror Force" to destroy Cyber End. OR much more simple: You active Polymerization to Special Summon "Cyber Twin Dragon", and attack with it. What does your opponent do? YES, active "Magic Cylinder", or 2, blocking the 2 attackS of Cyber, reducing your LP by 5600, it can finish the duel.

sorry for teh big text,

DeMoNDeH

Mirror Force still can be destroy by MST, Dust Tornado, Heavy Storm and it latter, and few monsters with s/t destruction effects. And also it can be negated by Trap Stun and Royal Decree, so it's still limited. Konami are just smoke their lungs off when coming to banlist. --FredCat Ta.P. • F.P. • J.R. • W.S. • Th.P. • S.C. 01:34, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

And more and more people are using Starlight Road, so Mirror Force isn't that much of a threat.HouseholdCatDeity (talk • contribs) 17:33, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Monster Reborn, not Forbidden?

I have a question for everybody. Why is it somehow Monster Reborn is not Forbidden but Premature Burial is Forbidden? There's something wrong in here.

Premature Burial is ridiculously easy to loop with cards like Brionac. 99.245.182.208 (talk) 04:36, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

The point in there is that Monster Reborn could Special Summon 1 monster from either's Graveyard. If your opponent's strong monster was sent to the Graveyard and if you activate Monster Reborn, you could Special Summon it and that monster lasts until it is destroyed. Premature Burial could allow you to Special Summon 1 monster from your Graveyard only. Also, Premature Burial is an Equip Spell Card, which means that if that card is destroyed, the monster is also destroyed.

Return Premature Burial to the hand and the monster stays. Loop it as many times as you can. Combine with Spell Economics for near infinite summoning from the graveyard with no cost (other than what's needed to return it in the first place). Premature Burial is very easily abused in comparison to Monster Reborn which is why it remains banned. 99.245.182.208 (talk) 07:39, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

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