Forum:Translated card names not part of archetypes

I've meant to post this for a while. There was a conversation at Talk:Machine Divine Emperor Machinecle Infinity Cubic about censoring card names in card pages based on what is previously done with similar words. This makes sense with cards part of an archetype, such as moving all the "Sin" monsters to "Malefic" once the first English name was confirmed, since Konami seems to have learned from the "Archfiend" naming debacle. However, other cards not part of an archetype have made-up article titles based on previous decisions. There's no guarantee that "God" will be changed to "Divine" in the above mentioned article. Similar issues exist with "Vision Polymerization", "Fiendish Trap Hole" and presumably other cards as well. I believe that these cards should be moved to their translated Japanese names until real English names are confirmed. Thoughts? Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 19:55, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

One thing I took away from my time spent on Wikipedia is that generally, a direct translation or transliteration is always preferred unless there's a really good reason to use a more loose translation. On Wikipedia, that "really good reason" is a preponderance of reliable sources using the name in question. Here, on the other hand, I could definitely see the argument for "syncing" cards in an archetype when one gets an official translation. I fully agree with your assessment, Cheesedude. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · ☎ Dinoguy1000} 06:27, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

I agree too. I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. A direct translation is more official than us trying to guess how Konami will change it. Archetype portions of names being an exception, because we know exactly how they'll be changed and it affects gameplay.

Slightly off-topic, but the translation given on "Fiendish Trap Hole", "Trap Hole of the Devil", is incorrect. I'll post on its talk page. -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:11, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you guys, sounds like a good idea, take semi-random guessing out, if people insist on using a different name, we do have talk pages...BassNettoHikari2...Talk to me... 19:18, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

• I agree for the most part, but I do feel that in some cases, past translations should be taken into account. I had an issue with this with someone else with the translation for "God." In the TCG, if the Japanese name contains the word "kami", it seems to always be translated as "Solemn", meanwhile cards that use "shin" or "ten" are translated as "Divine." Solemn Warning and Divine Wrath are good examples of this. I think the precedent set by these cards shouldn't be ignored. A part from that though, I agree that the original Japanese names should be kept until English versions are released, if no precedent has been set.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 20:34, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

"Kami" holds true for the series of Counter Traps, but not in general. "Altar of the Bound Deity", "Breath of Light", "Dian Keto the Cure Master", "Divine Chalice", "Gleipnir, the Fetters of Fenrir", "Gotterdammerung", "Lightning Crash", "Lord of Zemia", "Mound of the Bound Creator", "Orion the Battle King" and "Valhalla, Hall of the Fallen" all use "Kami" and are not changed to "Solemn".

"Aesir", "Earthbound Immortal", "Fabled", "Embodiment of Apophis", "Exodius the Ultimate Forbidden Lord", "Obelisk the Tormentor", "Sacred Spirit of the Ice Barrier", "The Winged Dragon of Ra" and "Uria, Lord of Searing Flames" all use "Shin" and are not changed to "Divine".

"Ten" seems to be used to refer to "Heaven", "Angel" or "Sky" more often than "God". I think it's used as "God" in "Sky Scourge", which doesn't use "Divine". -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:46, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

• First of all, anime-only cards obviously don't count, because Konami aren't the ones naming them and 4Kids don't need to worry about precedent since it holds no consequence to the game. Second of all, some of those cards are ones that have yet to be released in the TCG, and their names could change at any time. Not only that, but they are also cards that were named in video games before a precedent was set. This applies to "Breath of Light" and "Dian Keto the Cure Master" as well. The Nordic cards can be explained by Konami wanting to keep to a mythological theme among the cards, and Valhalla could have been named such as to stay accurate to mythology as well. As for "divine", several of those examples are archetype names, which obviously can't all be named "Divine", but that argument holds up better than the "kami" one. It should be noted, though, that all of those are Monster Cards.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 22:10, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Not previously mentioned for "Kami" is "Testudo erat Numen" and a non-TCG one: "Divine Evolution".

Not previously mentioned for "Shin" are "Aegis of the Ocean Dragon Lord", "A Feather of the Phoenix", "Alector, Sovereign of Birds ", "Avatar of The Pot", "Beast King Barbaros", "Beast Machine King Barbaros Ür", "Chimaera, the Master of Beasts", "Endymion, the Master Magician", "Final Ritual of the Ancients", "Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World", "Lineage of Destruction", "Machine Lord Ür", "Malevolent Catastrophe", "Maniacal Servant", "Mist Valley Apex Avian", "Ocean Dragon Lord - Neo-Daedalus", "Rainbow Dragon", "Rainbow Dark Dragon", "Reign-Beaux, Overlord of Dark World", "Reshef the Dark Being"", "Rise of the Snake Deity", "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys", "Sea Dragon Lord Gishilnodon", "Sillva, Warlord of Dark World", "Snake Deity's Command", "Statue of the Wicked" (and its "Wicked Token"), "Swiftstrike Armor", "Tethys, Goddess of Light", "Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes", "The Wicked" and ones you've discredited "Aeris", "Bacchus", "Bottom Dweller", "Eradicating Aerosol", "Fengsheng Mirror", "Guardian Treasure", "Kazejin", "Nuvia the Wicked", "Sanga of the Thunder", "Silver Spirit Redirection", "Suijin", "Sword of Dark Destruction", "Temple of the Kings". I think there's still more that I haven't listed. -- Deltaneos (talk) 00:31, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

• Honestly, you need something better to do with your time, Del. Fine. So, from your examples, "shin" and "ten" aren't always translated as "Divine", but they are usually translated as "Divine" when referencing God himself, rather than "a" particular God. As for "kami", I think my argument is still relevant. It's still a mystery as to why the Turtle was renamed in such a way, but it's pretty much a one-off hard-to-translate card.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 03:13, January 7, 2011 (UTC)