Talk:Bakura Ryou

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Rewrite

Once I have finished this, I plan to rewrite it in the future to give it a more unique feeling (its currently based heavily on the wikipedia article on Ryo Bakura). I was thinking perhaps to make if more biographical, but to do that I would need a specific source, not multiple sources. I think believe the Anime, from series two and onwards (the English anime began from series two), would be a good choice for that source. TwoTailedFox, what would you suggest? Thank you - Arctic Wolf

Bakura's Fate

The bio doesn't really explain what happened to Dark Bakura in the end. As I recall, there was Thief Bakura, Dark Bakura who duelled Little Yugi, and in the magna I believe there was a third Dark Bakura who was the overall mastermind behind Memory World, which proved to merely be a TTRPG. From memory anyway. So I think it'd be beneficial to mention what happened to Dark Bakura at the end of the series in both formats. I don't actually know what happened though.

Additionally, does Bakura show up at all in the DOMA Arc? Even if it's brief, it's worth mentioning if he does anything even somewhat plot related. Vagrant Lustoid 23:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Umm....Bakura is this one, okay? -_-^^ 82.38.16.182 09:25, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

All right, I'm going to try and explain this in the least confusing way as possible. Dark Bakura (Yami Bakura) was a fragment of Zorc the Dark One's soul and took control of the good Bakura. Also, in the Shadow RPG, he took control of Thief Bakura to achieve his evil goals. When Atem summoned The Creator of Light to relinquish Zorc, Yami Bakura's spirit was destroyed as well. (as they was revealed to be the same person). As for mentioning the fates of the characters, they should be mentioned that his spirit was destroyed, but it does not need to go into great detail into it because that is more for the Yami Bakura/Zorc Necrophades pages.--Qim1 23:54, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Edit: After looking at the article, it is actually mentioned under the "Millenium World" section, so you can refer to that, though I just realized that you wrote that over 2 years ago... I guess I wrote all that for nothing.--Qim1 00:02, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, when is it ever said that the spirit of Thief King Bakura...is Zorc?

...Because that makes no sense. We know Thief King Bakura existed as a child and wanted revenge on the Pharaoh because he witnessed the slaughter of the village of Kul Elna. Thief King Bakura is a seperate individual from the demon Zorc.

Saying Thief King Bakura is Zorc is the same as saying Priest Aknadin is really Zorc too when he becomes Shadow Magus. They become connected to Zorc but they're still individuals.

I just wanted to ask and discuss this before taking it upon myself to edit this article. Any thoughts about this?66.76.60.163 07:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)Makoeyes987

Exactly, when is it said that Thief Bakura is Zorc? It doesn't say he is in this article. -- Deltaneos 09:00, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm referring to the article stating that Dark Bakura....the spirit within the Millennium Ring, is just Zorc. However, I forgot that in the anime, it shows Bakura in the Dark RPG saying he is Zorc. So I guess that's where that comes from. However, I think it should be noted that in the manga, Dark Bakura never says such a thing, since Dark Bakura...the spirit within the Millennium Ring, is Thief King Bakura. Does that make sense?66.76.60.163 22:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)Makoeyes987

They are different people 82.38.16.182 09:27, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the spirit is actually Zorc, wasn't it more like Thief Bakura put his soul into the Ring but Zorc also but a part of his soul (somehow O.o) and so the spirit is some kind of fusion of both?

In the Millenuim World manga, Yami Bakura loudly announces that he is Zorc. It was also pretty blatantly hinted at in the last arc of the first manga.

Connections to the Thief King

What exactly are Ryo's (not Yami Bakura's) connections with Thief King Bakura? Is he supposed to be his reincarnation? That makes absolutely no sense unless Thief King Bakura had only part of his soul sealed in the Millennium Ring (I don't remember that ever being specified). Forgive me if this has been clarified before, but I actually could find next to nothing on their link.

Yami Bakura had his spirit sealed in the M. Ring, not Thief King Bakura. Thief King Bakura is a separate person who was possessed by the evil spirit of the Ring. (See my explanation above). As for good Bakura's connection to the Thief Bakura, I don't think there really is a connection between the two, though I may be wrong.--Qim1 00:39, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Deck

where does it say that Ryo made his deck(s)?--204.228.23.204 (talk) 16:18, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

His name

Isn't his name "Ryou" not "Ryo"? That extra U makes a difference in names and meanings, including pronunciation. That one of the very first things you learn in Japanese.

Tnlplus3 (talk • contribs) 14:45, March 19, 2011 (UTC)tnlplus3Tnlplus3 (talk • contribs) 14:45, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

"Ryou", "Ryō", "Ryô" and "Ryo" are all acceptable English spellings, even though the latter may have a different sound in Japanese. "Ryo" is the one used in the English manga. In most English Yu-Gi-Oh! media, it's more common to drop the "u". e.g. Mutou → Muto, Fudou → Fudo, Itou → Ito. Rōmaji spellings however favour the macron (ō). -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:12, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

English name

Was the name "Ryo" ever used in the dub? I can't recall ever hearing that name in the dub. They just always called him Bakura, which in English, implies its his first name. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 21:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it ever was. Although I don't think that necessarily means Bakura is his first name in the dub. People like Kaiba and Pegasus are nearly always called by their surname in the dub. However he is called Bakura Ryou (given name, surname) in Yu-Gi-Oh! Worldwide Edition: Stairway to the Destined Duel, while other English language video games have called him Ryou Bakura and Bakura. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:46, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Like Delta said, it's common using to put their last name in honor - usually in Japan, which again referred to my word define of "Sensei" as father from Jack Altas to Rex Godwin. "Sensei" can be also using as "Doctor", "Teacher", etc. So it's just the way Anime adapted to respect the older character with their last name instead. --iFredCat 15:49, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

But we're talking about the English dub, where they don't necessarily follow Japanese manners. And the people who call him Bakura are usually around the same age as him. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:53, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

I am aware of that - if that's true, then why can't Kaiba's first name being "Seto" since his little brother was repeat called "Mokuba Kaiba" oppose to "Little Kaiba" or something. --iFredCat 16:03, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

I have read before in a Yu-Gi-Oh! trivia book that I have that the character's name is Bakura Ryou. THAT is his dub name. Ryo Bakura is his manga name, and Ryou Bakura is his name in one of the games. However, this page is mainly about his anime self. I recommend that this article be renamed. I would be quite grateful. I've never heard the word "Ryou" in his name in the dub. If this article doesn't get renamed to "Bakura Ryou", then at least change it to Bakura.

NC Duelist (talk • contribs) 01:48, January 26, 2016 (UTC)

Bakura lineart

Does anyone know where I can find the lineart for normal Bakura (& Shadi & Shizuka & Atem)? Where was the source for all the other character lineart drawings?

Nevermind, found lineart for all Yugioh characters here, well not GX, 5Ds, or Zexal. Perhaps if permission were asked, the owner would allow them to be uploaded here: http://pegsanct.rubberslug.com/gallery/home.asp

Name Needs to be Changed

His name should be changed to Bakura Ryou, since it's his name from the English anime, with proof being here on the official website. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 14:26, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

Except it's directly listed as "Yami Bakura" so Bakura Ryou is probably a typo.--MasterMarik (talk • contribs) 14:45, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

"Yugi thought that his classmate Bakura Ryou was a sweet and good-natured kid. Yugi was right about that, until the evil of the Millenium Ring took over Bakura Ryou's mind and transformed him into the nefarios Yami Bakura. Unfortunately for Yugi and his friends, Bakura kept the sinister Millenium Ring close at all times." Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 15:56, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

I know that description is there, hence why I said "Bakura Ryou" is probably a typo because both can't be his name.--MasterMarik (talk • contribs) 17:11, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

"Bakura" is his first name, wheras "Ryou" is his last name, so "Bakura Ryou" is his full name. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 17:38, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

Bakura is his LAST name. Ryou is his FIRST name. Why else does everyone in the anime refer to them by their last name? Besides it's not like that site hasn't made typos before. In fact, their card database is filled with them. --MasterMarik (talk • contribs) 17:49, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

The dub takes place in the U.S and the people there are American, so people call others by their first name, in contrast to how in Japan people call others by their last name (except Seto Kaiba, but since he's an enemy of Yugi and co. they would call him by his last name, since they hate him). And it's most likely for it to not be a typo; we have no other evidence to support Bakura's full name, since they never said it in the show, and we must call them by their names from the 4Kids dub, since all the anime character articles are named after their names from the dub (such as Yami Marik, Bandit King Bakura, Joey Wheeler, etc.) Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 13:46, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

Also, I don't know why the name Ryo Bakura is here. That's only his name in the English manga, not the anime. We should at least do just Bakura. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 08:21, August 30, 2015 (UTC)

Also, there is no proof that his first name is Ryo. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 14:25, September 10, 2015 (UTC)

Then you have CLEARLY never read the manga

Dread (talk • contribs) 14:30, September 10, 2015 (UTC)

This page is for the anime version of the character, and yes I have read the manga. There is a separate article for him in the manga. Only in the manga his first name is Ryo, but not in the English anime, and I've been talking about the English anime the whole time. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 14:38, September 10, 2015 (UTC)

Then you should know that his first name doesn't magically disappear because no one in the 4Kids dub mentioned it. thats simple logic there.

Kaiba, did not have his name changed, Yugi did not have his name changed, Mokuba did not have his name changed, plenty of characters did not have their name changed. "Bakura" was not Localized by 4Kids, its a safe enough assumption that his first name wasn't either.

the fact that the OFFICAL database you linked had a first name there, even if they forgot to swtich the order, is proof enough.

Honestly I just don't think you know how naming conventions work after reading all this crap.

If "What was mentioned on-screen" is the only qualification, then throw a Deletion notice on Gurimo because his name was NEVER mentioned.

Dread (talk • contribs) 15:31, September 10, 2015 (UTC)

If that was a typo and the names were switched around, then it should be changed from Ryo to Ryou Bakura and make this article a redirect page. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 21:16, September 11, 2015 (UTC)

But, why would every character call him "Bakura", when he's a friend of Yugi's, so it makes sense for them to call him by his first name; they don't just call Joey "Wheeler", or Yugi "Muto". Why would they just call him by his last name? Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 22:24, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

By that logic, Seto is Kaiba's last name and we need to move it to "Kaiba Seto."

Your arguments are falling apart like a stack of Jenga blocks. DrakeyC (talk • contribs) 23:47, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, my point is this: So, in the English anime, his full name was never mentioned on-screen before, so since over here it said "Bakura Ryou", so we can only rely on that page, since it was never mentioned. And why do you think that was a typo? There is nowhere to prove in the dub of the anime that his first name is Ryou, especially since they call him "Bakura" (about the Kaiba thing, probably because he wants to be called "Kaiba", to "remind" himself of the time when he was successful in taking over KaibaCorp). Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 20:40, September 23, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, shut up about the names. They're the SAME THING. I suppose "The red car" isn't the same thing as "the car that is red" in your case. --MasterMarik (talk • contribs) 20:53, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Damnit I thought this stupid shit was done...

Learn your naming conventions. His full name is Bakura Ryo, Last name, First Name. in the west that is switched around to First, Last. Even then People are usually referred to by their family names, even in the Original he was referred to as "Bakura". In other words 4Kids actually got it right by NOT having them call him "Ryo". This does not mean that his First Name disappears because it was never mentioned. Even in that official link, it was probably just a straight translation and they forgot to switch the naming order to Western Style.

And as I pointed out before "What 4Kids said on screen" means Exactly Nothing. Remember Gurimo? he wasn't named in the 4Kids dub. Remember "Reborn The Monster"? They said it, guess we need to make a page for that too (actually I wonder if that has a redirect.... oh it does. someone needs a medal for that)

Since you seem to have trouble with this part too, I'll make it simple and in Big bold letters for you:

RYOU AND RYO ARE THE EXACT SAME THING

Translationwise, they are both perfectly valid and are pronounced the exact same. Even if the English dub HAD mentioned his name it would not matter for that reason.

Meanwhile your arguments are shit and are clearly not convincing anyone. Names won't get changed here unless you can convince people. you are clearly not going to be able to do that so take my advice and Drop it before you look like an idiot or this starts turning ugly.

Dread (talk • contribs) 22:14, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Calm heads, everyone. I don't quite see why this seems to be so difficult. As Scheeps has pointed out, the official site refers to Bakura as "Bakura Ryou" in Yami Bakura's bio (though anywhere else they refer to him as "Bakura".) Sadly, even the official site seems to be giving poor Bakura the short stick in terms of prominence, so it's difficult to check.

We have a dub name that is different from the name that is listed here. Does this not warrant a rename? There doesn't seem to be any convincing argument against it beyond insulting poor Scheeps. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 23:04, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Given the names are basically Identical, I simply don't see any point in it. Now I wasn't here for it but I assume some source had us name it as "Ryo" for a reason and I see little reason to actually change it. Given the names are basically the same and that site already made 1 error on the name it could still be "Ryo". besides, he needs to convince us to change it, not us convince him to leave it be so no one has been bothering to argue on why it should stay.

That, and for some reason I haven't quite figured out yet, I don't like this guy for constantly asking "Why is X named X" on a bunch of pages.

Dread (talk • contribs) 00:55, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but I admit that I see your last point, it minorly irritates me myself.

Presumably, I'd assume that with no source that said otherwise until otherwise brought up, we assumed that it was the same as the Japanese name. Whether it's "Ryou" or "Ryo" doesn't really matter to me, more the order, but I haven't seen any arguments otherwise that boil down to anything other than insults; it all just addresses "Ryou" and Ryo". But hey, let's see what happens. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 04:52, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

I'll just toss out that, coming from the Inuyasha fandom, we had Koga, Kikyo, and Sesshomaru. Or, Kouga, Kikyou, and Sesshoumaru. It seems to just be a quirk of the romanization, that stray "U". It's ultimately irrelevant because the name is pronounced the same. It's like arguing that "Mrs. Muto" should be moved to "Mrs Muto" without the period because the official website left it out, too. DrakeyC (talk • contribs) 06:19, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

As I said on Ra's manga talk page, the reason why I constantly ask for page renames is because I can't rename pages myself. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 19:31, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

For a damn good reason might I add.

Dread (talk • contribs) 20:52, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

Especially since the changes aren't even necessary. You're the only one to see a problem with the page names, Sheepybird.

Cool it, please.

He is not the only one. That being said, I ultimately prefer that this is resolved peacefully. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 23:36, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

I don't want to reopen a fight, but I also think that we should use "Bakura Ryou".

• Japanese names list the surname first. Both forms "Ryou Bakura" and "Bakura Ryou" are acceptable renditions.
  • But we title articles using names in Western order or the order used in official sources.
• "Bakura" is his surname in the Japanese version and the English manga.
  • In the English anime, unless I'm mistaken, he's only ever called "Bakura" and it never clarifies if that's the surname or first name. In cases like that, I think it's fine to assume the full name is the same as the Japanese. Unless there is an official source that says otherwise. We have an official source now. It's unlikely to be a mistake, as it's also what he's called in Yu-Gi-Oh! Worldwide Edition: Stairway to the Destined Duel, Yu-Gi-Oh! Nightmare Troubadour and Yu-Gi-Oh! Millennium Duels.
• "Ryo", "Ryou" and "Ryō are all acceptable ways of romanising 了（りょう）.
  • In cases like that we nearly always use the unmacroned (Ryo) for the English name. But if an official source uses another method, we use that. e.g. Yugi Mutou (manga).

-- Deltaneos (talk) 22:11, October 19, 2015 (UTC)

Ohhhhh, where have you been all this time? Thank you Delt. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 22:51, October 19, 2015 (UTC)

So, does this mean that a rename tag will be put on this page? Scheepybird (talk • contribs)

I don't think there's any problem with the rename tag being on the page. It should just draw people's attention that there's a discussion on the matter.

Does anyone who originally opposed still maintain that the page should be left at "Ryo Bakura"? -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:10, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

I still think it should be left as is. --MasterMarik (talk • contribs) 22:24, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

Rename - Arbitrary break

Since it's a long discussion above, I'll try and quickly summarise the points. In favour items marked with "+" Against items marked with "-".

• + The official English anime website gives his name as "Bakura Ryou".
  • - This contradicts the manga and the Japanese anime, where Bakura is his surname.
    • + A lot of characters have different names in the English anime than the manga and Japanese anime. We title articles on anime characters using their English anime name.
  • - Japanese names list surnames first. This order is often maintained when doing so in English.
    • + Every other character on the site gives their name in Western order (first name, surname). It's unlikely they're using Eastern order for just one character.
      • - It's a once off that could be a mistake.
        • + He is also called this in numerous video games.
  • - "Ryo" and "Ryou" are both acceptable romanisations of his Japanese name. The difference is trivial.
    • + "Ryou" is the one being used officially.

I won't outrule that there's a chance it could still be a mistake, but while we have no evidence for that, I think we should go with the official site. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:39, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

At Deltas Request (Nice to meet you BTW), here I am to give my final 2 cents on the matter.

My opinion has not Changed, I think it should stay as is to keep consistency with the Manga and Japanese Anime, given the "Official" name basically flips all of that on its head, only getting away with it because "Ryo/Ryou" was never mentioned. Also I wouldn't exactly call the Video Games "official".

Dread (talk • contribs) 00:09, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure what he meant is that if "Bakura Ryou" wasn't a name in any version and that it was just a typo, they wouldn't have used that name in the video games. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 01:16, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

I say rename it. Not entirely sure what your point is with consistency there Dreads. Don't really see why the games shouldn't be official. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 01:24, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

Consistency with the most used name on the wikia, that being "Ryo"

As for Video games, which one is official? Tag force uses "Ryo" and World Championship uses "Ryou", Nightmare Troubadour uses "Bakura Ryou" etc. they are inconsistent. Besides the Video game versions already have their own versions (well most of them, see the disabiguation page) and this is for the anime version of the character, so they are irrelevant for several reasons there.

If we do count Video games, then It'd probably be the most recent entry, Tag force, which uses "Ryo"

Dread (talk • contribs) 23:03, November 8, 2015 (UTC)

It's true video games are not really a source of canon for the anime. They were mentioned because it was suggested that the mention of "Bakura Ryou" on yugioh.com was a typo. I just thought its usage in other official media made it less likely to have been typo.

Incidentally, the Tag Force game that Bakura appears in, Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V Tag Force Special, has not been released in English. So he doesn't have an English version name in that game. I don't think he's called "Ryo Bakura" in any English video game. Although I could be wrong.

-- Deltaneos (talk) 22:06, November 12, 2015 (UTC)

This is similar to "Yugi's mother" and "Mrs. Muto". True, they are practically the same, but since an official source used "Yugi's mother", it was renamed. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 21:31, January 4, 2016 (UTC)

Since the trivia book as well as the official site called him "Bakura Ryou", it is not likely for it to be a typo. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 23:46, January 27, 2016 (UTC)

I'm not a regular contributor, but I refer to this wiki on a regular basis. Everywhere else I've seen, fans refer to Bakura as "Ryou," with "Ryo" being used very rarely. I've always seen "Ryou" and only "Ryou" accepted as the official romanization of the name. From what I know about Japanese, the romanization would usually either be Ryou or Ryō because of the う in 了（りょう） (though I'm not accusing "Ryo" of being an invalid romanization). I'd very much agree with changing the page name to "Ryou Bakura." Donteatacowman (talk • contribs) 21:25, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Both the trivia book and the official website use "Bakura Ryou". Since we can't confirm whether or not "Bakura Ryou" is a typo, it's best we use that. The trivia book also supports the fact that it may not be a typo. About consistency on this Wikia, it's still possible to change it if it gets renamed. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 15:54, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

Now that I know that there's another source I'm far more for it than I was. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 21:51, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

I long since stopped giving a shit, its up to the Admins

Dread (talk • contribs) 22:20, May 15, 2016 (UTC)

Ryo or Ryou?

I just want to confirm which one is his first name, so which one is it? Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 19:55, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

Both are acceptable, it makes little to no difference. Translation to english isn't a smooth thing, you will find there are usually multiple different English spellings. there is a reason we list the alternate names in the header and infoboxes.

Dread (talk • contribs) 19:58, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

Dub name revisited

Copied from my talk page:

One of the arguments that was originally used to incite the name change is that the name Ryou wasn't used in the English dub. While that's true, that claim is slightly hypocritical in itself. The name Ryou is never mentioned in the English version as his first name, but it was absolutely never mentioned as the last name; Yugi and company always refer to him as simply "Bakura". It's also important to note that the original manga and pre-dub anime also don't have people address him by his first name; Yugi and company never call him Ryou in any continuity. This trait was one thing they didn't change when dubbing the English version, the same way Kaiba is always called "Kaiba" by everyone except for Mokuba Kaiba, Gozaburo Kaiba, and Noah Kaiba from the anime, who call him "Seto" in English and Japanese because they're his family. A person who continuously addresses the first name is the only difference between the situation with Kaiba and the situation with Bakura; it's the same situation otherwise and honestly should be treated as such.

Another severe issue I noticed in the discussion was the evidence put forth by certain fans looking to get the name changed. From what I gathered from the discussions, the main two things submitted as evidence were a trivia book that apparently used the name "Bakura Ryou" and the Yami Bakura profile on the official site. But after consideration, I've found that these examples aren't nearly reliable enough to warrant the change that was made, especially since the apparent "proof" is either inaccurate or most likely simple error.

This is especially true for the apparent trivia book that was claimed as a source of the name "Bakura Ryou". Just what exactly is this "trivia book"? What's its title? When was it published? Is it something we as a fandom would recognize, or is it some obscure book from a discount store that barely anyone would recognize? Was it even a legitimate book? YuGiOh was and still is victim to having bootleg merchandise made without company approval, including unlicensed cards, books, and toys. The fact that all of these questions go unasked and unanswered throughout the entirety of the original discussion is not only unusual, but also makes its submission as evidence look careless and easily excepted as truth, despite the fact that it's such vague and opaquely explained information.

The other piece of evidence used to insight the name change from the official site is also highly suspect. I think a lot of people in the original argument were too hung up on the fact that it was the official site. Just because it's the official site doesn't mean someone can't make a simple mistake. Like I already mentioned, none of the other characters refer to Bakura by his first name in canon episodes, simply because it's carried over from Japanese honorifics. What happened on the official sight - more likely than not - is that the person translating, writing the page say Bakura's name formatted in the original style of "last name, first name" format - aka "Bakura Ryou" - and made the simple mistake of thinking that was the last name since it was never/rarely mentioned. It's also important to note that Bakura doesn't even have his own profile - this apparent evidence only comes from Yami Bakura's profile, and that format isn't repeated anywhere else on the entire site. And everywhere else on the website, the call him "Bakura", further insinuating that the single profile incident is a fluke rather than a canon name change.

So in conclusion, the name change on the Bakura page feels not only unwarranted, but inaccurate as well. This wiki is a place where I and other fans often come to help answer questions about characters, episodes, and other subjects involved in YuGiOh, and I'm usually more than satisfied with the information it provides. But this is something I feel is too big to ignore, especially when the handful of fans who wanted this name change are in an extremely small minority to the rest of the fandom.

Thanks for your time. MorganaRox96 (talk • contribs) 16:49, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

I believe I've said this somewhere, but for consistency, we also have Marik Ishtar's alter ego named Yami Marik (no discussion here, right? all good) and Yugi Muto's alter ego named Yami Yugi (you also agree with this, right). More generically: "Yami <first name>". For Bakura Ryou's/Ryou Bakura's alter ego, we have Yami Bakura. So it makes sense, by this logic as well, that "Bakura" can be a legitimate first name. Becasita ^Pendulum (talk • contribs) 19:12, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

I can understand where you're coming from, Becasita. But isn't it more likely that the choice to call him "Yami Bakura" was more of a writer's choice? I mean, "Yami Ryou" really doesn't have the same kick to it as "Yami Bakura" does; it seems more like a tactic of effective and memorable naming. And it's not like they refer to him as something other than "Yami Bakura" in Japanese, where Bakura is the last name as well. MorganaRox96 (talk • contribs) 19:30, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Replies listed below italicised quotes:

The name Ryou is never mentioned in the English version as his first name, but it was absolutely never mentioned as the last name

• It is mentioned on the official site. It's a slightly obscure, but it's the only official source of a full name for the dub.

Yugi and company always refer to him as simply "Bakura". It's also important to note that the original manga and pre-dub anime also don't have people address him by his first name; Yugi and company never call him Ryou in any continuity. This trait was one thing they didn't change when dubbing the English version

• The Japanese names and standards do not necessarily come through in the dub. "Pegasus J. Crawford" is referred to by his first name in the Japanese version. In the dub, his name is changed to "Maximillion Pegasus" and he is usually referred to by his surname. Similar to the proposed Bakura case, the switching of first and last name also results in him going by the same name, "Pegasus", in both versions.

[T]he same way Kaiba is always called "Kaiba" [...] A person who continuously addresses the first name is the only difference between the situation with Kaiba and the situation with Bakura

• In both cases, it's the full name being mentioned elsewhere, that indicates whether or not the single name being used is the first or last name. We also know "Kaiba" is the surname because other family members use it. None of Bakura's family members are mentioned by name in the dub.

Just what exactly is this "trivia book"? [...] YuGiOh was and still is victim to having bootleg merchandise [...] The fact that all of these questions go unasked and unanswered throughout the entirety of the original discussion is not only unusual, but also makes its submission as evidence look careless and easily excepted as truth, despite the fact that it's such vague and opaquely explained information.

• My best guess was that it was Yu-Gi-Oh! The Ultimate Trivia Book (ISBN 9780439879156). I could not find evidence at the time that the name "Bakura Ryo" was indeed used in the book. I did not take this as solid evidence at the time and relied mainly on the official site. I didn't list the book in my summation of the main arguments above.

Just because it's the official site doesn't mean someone can't make a simple mistake. [...] What happened on the official sight - more likely than not - is that the person translating, writing the page say Bakura's name formatted in the original style of "last name, first name" format - aka "Bakura Ryou" - and made the simple mistake of thinking that was the last name since it was never/rarely mentioned.

• I said above that I wouldn't outrule that official site may have made a mistake, but there's no evidence for it at the moment. We could change it if 4K Media say it was a mistake or release another source that contradicts it. What we're doing at the moment is presenting what the official source is saying. What you're proposing is to accept an assumption, that they've made a mistake, as a fact and go against what the official source says.

Bakura doesn't even have his own profile - this apparent evidence only comes from Yami Bakura's profile, and that format isn't repeated anywhere else on the entire site. And everywhere else on the website, the call him "Bakura", further insinuating that the single profile incident is a fluke rather than a canon name change.

• That means it's just one small official source in favour of "Bakura Ryou". But there haven't been any official sources presented for "Ryou Bakura" as the dub name. Ideally, we'd like there to be more than one source, but it's all we've got. And if it's a case of 1 VS 0, I think we should go with the 1.

And Becasita's comment:

[F]or consistency, we also have Marik Ishtar's alter ego named Yami Marik [...] and Yugi Muto's alter ego named Yami Yugi [...] More generically: "Yami <first name>". For Bakura Ryou's/Ryou Bakura's alter ego, we have Yami Bakura. So it makes sense, by this logic as well, that "Bakura"

• The "Yami" characters don't necessarily go by the first name. Bakura is definitely the surname in the manga and Japanese anime, where his "Yami" is also "Yami Bakura"/"Dark Bakura".

-- Deltaneos (talk) 21:22, August 25, 2017 (UTC)