Talk:Bandit King Bakura
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Let me get this straight....
Thief Bakura and Zorc are both in the M. Ring? Because it looked like he was absorbed by Zorc. Can someone help me? My present thoughts are that the spirit of the M. Rings is a combo of Zorc and Thief Bakura.
- No, only a portion Zorc Necrophades' soul was sealed in the Millennium Ring. He then possessed Thief Bakura in the Dawn of the Duel arc. After Pharaoh Atem and his guardians were paralyzed, Thief Bakura was turned to sand and revealed to be possessed by Yami Bakura or Zorc Necrophades.--Qim1 22:29, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
- Garr, the introduction paragraph makes everything even more confusing to readers. I think it needs a major rewrite. It says "he was believed to be the spirit of the Millenium Ring before it was actually revealed to be Zorc." It doesn't really matter what it was believed to be, because he is NOT the spirit of the Millenium Ring, the spirit of the Ring is Yami Bakura. While a part of Zorc's spirit was sealed in the Ring, that entitlty is referred to as Yami Bakura. So i definitely think that portion should be rewritten.--Qim1 00:53, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Something probably should be mentioned about the fanslation of the Thief King's name, Akefia. Like "Malik", I believe this is a misinterpretation of the anime, but it should definitely be discussed before edited.
In the manga, I thought Yami no Bakura doesn't possess the Thief King at all, and that everything was his own actions. Shouldn't that be mentioned somewhere?
It's Yami Bakura who's Zorc.
TBK and Yami Bakura's Connection
Can someone help me get this straight? I can't figure out the connection between Thief King Bakura, Yami Bakura and Zorc.
I know that Thief King Bakura is Ryou Bakura back in ancient Egypt. I understand their connection as I understand Yami Bakura's connection to Ryou as well, be it as Ryou is merely a host for his spirit.
I believe Yami Bakura's page states that Thief King Bakura is Zorc and TBK's spirit are both locked away in the Millennium Ring and Yami Bakura is a combination of both Zorc and TBK. Whilst TBK's page states that he's a similar but distinct entity from Yami Bakura.
I was beginning to think Yami Bakura was both spirits combined, but then after some more reading, I began to think Yami Bakura was ONLY Zorc and had nothing to do with TBK. However, a couple of statements said in the manga makes me think otherwise.
In manga 3 of the Millennium World, after TBK's fight with Mahado, there are some guards discussing rather or not Bakura is dead. Yami Bakura is watching over them saying "You think he's dead? If that were true, I wouldn't be here!" - If Yami Bakura was just Zorc, why would he say that? What difference would TBK being alive make to Yami Bakura's existence?
A few chapters later, when TBK is killed by the Sun Dragon Ra, Yami Bakura retorts by saying "Can't you do anything right?" - Why would he retort about himself that way if he weren't only Zorc?
In the anime, Zorc attacks TBK when he tells him that he needs to find the "eighth key" - If Yami Bakura (who had taken over TBK's body after he entered the Millennium world.) was only Zorc, why would he attack himself?
So uh, I don't get what TBK and Yami Bakura's connection is. Is Yami Bakura partly TBK and partly Zorc, or is he just Zorc and eventually possesses TBK?
Sorry if this against any rules or whatever, but I've been trying for weeks to get a solid understanding of this whole thing and the more I read, the more confusing it seems to get. :(
Bandit King Name
Why is the page titled "Bandit King Bakura" when most translations refer to him as "Thief King Bakura"? Even within the article he's called "Thief King," despite not being addressed as such in the introductory paragraph. Is there an official translation of any kind in which he's called "Bandit King"? Can we retitle the article? --Donteatacowman (talk • contribs) 03:52, October 26, 2014 (UTC)
Yami Bakura is Bandit King Bakura and Zorc Necrophades
Hello. This wiki and some users here state that Yami Bakura is Zorc and is in no form or fashion Bandit King Bakura, but Yami Bakura and Bandit King Bakura are similar entities. However, this is debatable and very likely false. I thought about changing the information of this article to include that Yami Bakura or the evil spirit of the Millennium Ring is not only Zorc Necrophades, but also Bandit King Bakura. However, before I did that, I at least wanted to explain why I believe that such is the truth so other users would not believe that I made such edits to vandalise or troll the site. The other wiki, Wikipedia, claims that in the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga, Yami Bakura is supposed to be a shard of Zorc Necrophades and the soul of Bandit King Bakura, while, in the anime, Yami Bakura is said to be just Zorc; other websites have similar information. I believe that entity in the Millennium Ring is both Zorc and Bandit King Bakura in both the manga and the anime and here is why.
To begin, the official Yu-Gi-Oh! website does indeed state that Yami Bakura was once the king of the bandits in ancient Egypt, when his hatred for the pharaoh originated, with evidence of that being found here on the official website. The question is, if Bandit King Bakura is not in any form or fashion Yami Bakura, why does the official Yu-Gi-Oh! website directly claim that Yami Bakura was once the king of the bandits and his hatred for the pharaoh stemmed in ancient Egypt? In fact, in the episode of the anime, episode 201: "Memoirs of a Pharaoh (The Door of Memory Opened)," where the pharaoh first enters the Millennium World, Shadi approaches the gang and informs that his earthy body was destroyed by an ancient tomb robber named Bakura, with evidence of this being found about 15 minutes into this video here. He explained that he too is a wandering spirit and when the pharaoh entered the Millennium World, the spirit of Bakura followed the pharaoh and the scene showed the spirit exiting the Millennium Ring to enter the same tablet that the pharaoh's spirit entered in a short flashback clip. If Bandit King Bakura is in no form or fashion Yami Bakura, why would Shadi say that his physical body was destroyed by Bakura and that the spirit of Bakura followed the pharaoh into the tablet?
In that same episode, when Yami Bakura first enters Bandit King Bakura's body, he said, "I remember this day of my past quite clearly." It would make no sense for Zorc to remember this day because he had not crossed into the mortal world at the time and no evidence exists in the anime or manga of Zorc possessing anyone, including Bandit King Bakura, before he was released into Egypt. This implies that Yami Bakura identifies as Bandit King Bakura. In the next episode 202, "The Intruder, Part 1 (Meet Thief King Bakura!)," when Bandit King Bakura attacks the royal palace, when the pharaoh guessed that Bakura was after the Millennium Items, he said, "So you have been keeping up with me all these years," further implying that Yami Bakura identifies as Bandit King Bakura. If he was a completely different entity merely possessing Bandit King Bakura, he wouldn't speak in such a manner.
While he controlled Bandit King Bakura, in nearly every episode featuring him, he constantly mentioned his past about his village being destroyed as a child and wanted revenge. If Bandit King Bakura wasn't the spirit of the Millennium Ring known as Yami Bakura, then the entity that possessed him likely would care that Bakura had his village destroyed in the first place because it's not his problem. In both the anime and manga, it is well known that Yami Bakura identified as Zorc. Of course, evidence of Yami Bakura being a portion or shard of Zorc's soul can be found here.
In the manga, in "Millennium World Duel 46: Fight in the Holy Tomb," when Yami Bakura approaches the gang in the tomb, Yami Bakura mentions that the "thief's soul" is in his Millennium Ring and could sense the location of the pharaoh's lost name, confirming that Bandit King Bakura has undoubtedly been sealed in the Millennium Ring, with evidence from the manga being found here. If Bandit King Bakura is not Yami Bakura or the evil spirit of the Millennium Ring in any form or fashion, then why does Yami Bakura mention Bandit King Bakura's soul being inside the Millennium Ring? This strongly suggests that Yami Bakura is the spirit of Bandit King Bakura infused with a shard of Zorc's soul. It can easily be reasoned that, during the anime when Yami Bakura's spirit left the Millennium Ring to enter the Millennium World, the entire spirit of Bandit King Bakura and the Zorc shard entered Bandit King Bakura from the past and allowed the events to play out as they did during the ancient times, of course with a few changes based on their game play, allowing Yami Bakura to identify as both Bandit King Bakura and Zorc. As he grew more powerful playing the shadow game, Yami Bakura could have easily just ignored the Bandit King Bakura portion of his spirit from there and identified as being Zorc entirely, since that would grant him the ultimate power he had been seeking as both Bandit King Bakura and Yami Bakura.
Before I change the information, I just wanted to know, what are your thoughts on my arguments and am I wrong or misinformed about anything that I stated? If so, please let me know and I might reconsider. If I am right, then I would change the information accordingly. Thank you. --Archangel Audrey (talk • contribs) 05:16, November 23, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to write all that. This has always been a confusing topic for me. One, I wish they'd done a better job explaining in series. But I'm also sure that Dark/Yami Bakura is in some way connected to Thief/Bandit King Bakura.
Some other pieces of support from the manga:
- When Dark Bakura first speaks to Ryo, he compares the Millennium Items to tombs and considers himself a thief to rob the tombs.
- When Yugi and his friends are trying to find the exit to the Labyrinth Brothers dungeon, Dark Bakura offers his assistance to Ryo, saying it will be easy for a thief like him.
To nitpick on some points though.
- I wouldn't rely too much on the English dub for evidence, as the dub does change some details. And the yugioh.com site does seem to be based on the dub.
- True, the English dub does change some details regarding the show, but the English dub is still canon and much of the information on this wiki seems to be sourced from the English dub. I also found nothing in the Japanese version that directly contradicts anything that I posted sourced from the English version. The dialogue might be a little different, but it usually implies the same meaning. --Archangel Audrey (talk • contribs) 07:02, December 13, 2014 (UTC)
- I know some stuff got changed in the anime and I'm not totally up to scratch on how things worked there. In the anime, Dark Bakura entered Thief Bakura's body and controlled him from there on, did he? While in the manga, Thief Bakura was a player character on Dark Bakura's team, meaning Dark Bakura could control him, but if left alone he would behave as he would have himself 3000 years previous. Which would explain him talking about own his past. Dark Bakura also took pride in being a role player and as such wouldn't have his team behave out of character.
- Yami Bakura did enter Bandit King Bakura's body in the anime and took control of him. Just as Yami Yugi naturally entered the body of the pharaoh in the last season, considering that was his past self, Yami Bakura naturally entered the body of Bandit King Bakura. When Yami Bakura entered Bandit King Bakura's body, that's when he started talking about his memories. If Yami Bakura was only a shard of Zorc without being Bandit King Bakura at all, it wouldn't make sense for Yami Bakura to have these memories either during the anime or the manga because Zorc Necrophades was not released during this time. This means that the memories that he's referring to are Bandit King Bakura's memories. Since it's directly stated in the manga that Bandit King Bakura has been sealed in the Millennium Ring, this makes sense. Even though I strongly agree with you that Yami Bakura loves role-playing and wouldn't let his characters behave out of character, this reason alone makes me believe that Yami Bakura is not only playing the role of Bandit King Bakura, but also reliving his past life as Bandit King Bakura too. Aknadin also serves as his player character too just as Bandit King Bakura and Zorc did, but despite this, it should be interesting to note that Yami Bakura does not identify as Aknadin, but identifies as Bandit King Bakura and Zorc personally during the game. --Archangel Audrey (talk • contribs) 07:02, December 13, 2014 (UTC)
- Dark Bakura shows no emotional attachment to Thief Bakura. He smiles when he says he remembers Thief Bakura's future. (Millennium World Duel 19) He admits to using Thief Bakura as a pawn and mercilessly disposes of him after he has outlived his usefulness. (Millennium World Duel 41)
- Yami Bakura just never seemed like the type to show emotional attachment to anybody. To him, everyone is a "pawn." For example, even though it seemed like he and Marik developed a friendship, that "friendship" only existed because Yami Bakura wanted Marik's Millennium Rod. He obviously didn't show any emotional attachment to Ryo Bakura because he only viewed him as a vessel for his soul. With that said, especially considering that Yami Bakura is also a shard of Zorc, he should be expected not to have any emotional attachment to his past self, Bandit King Bakura either, especially considering that the Zorc portion of himself is what he mostly cares about. The Bandit King Bakura portion only exists to help the Zorc portion reunite with the real Zorc and become whole again. --Archangel Audrey (talk • contribs) 07:02, December 13, 2014 (UTC)
- Their motives collide. Thief Bakura wants revenge for the massacre at Kul Elna. For Zorc that was a necessary sacrifice to resurrect him. Akhenaden, the one Thief Bakura should hate, also claimed to be Zorc (a point I could never fully understand).
- Actually, Bandit King Bakura's motives and Yami Bakura's motives are very similar. Bandit King Bakura did indeed want revenge for the massacre at Kul Elna. His main way of getting such revenge was to take the seven Millennium Items from the royal court of course after killing the guardians and the pharaoh and place them on the Millennium Stone in Kul Elna to obtain the power of darkness. In other words, calling forth Zorc Necrophades could have granted him this power, which is pretty much the same way the Shadow Magus received his power. Yami Bakura in the future pretty much wanted to do something very similar in the present day, steal Millennium Items from present-day holders to release Zorc. Because Yami Bakura is also comprised of a shard of Zorc, reuniting with his past self in Zorc's full form would be referring to the ultimate power of darkness that Yami Bakura had been talking about for so long. Of course, Yami Bakura found it easier instead to play the Ultimate Shadow Game considering that his past self, Bandit King Bakura, pretty much had very similar goals and motives. As for Aknadin claiming to be Zorc, keep in mind that when Aknadin transformed to the Great Shadow Magus, a shard of Zorc's spirit was used to give Aknadin his dark powers. It seems that whenever a shard of Zorc's spirit becomes infused with someone, they begin to identify as "Zorc" even though they're not the actual or full Zorc. This is exactly what I believe is going on with Yami Bakura. Do you agree with me? --Archangel Audrey (talk • contribs) 07:02, December 13, 2014 (UTC)
The last point you made about Dark Bakura saying the thief's soul is in the ring really can't be denied.
It does look like Dark Bakura has inherited traits from both Zorc and Thief Bakura. This does seem to be true in the manga. And from what you've said about the anime, there seems to be even more evidence there to support it there. I don't object to the changes you are proposing. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:18, November 23, 2014 (UTC)
I know some more points in the manga and anime that supports this:
- When the villagers were talking about Thief King Bakura's survival, Dark Bakura commented that "He [Dark Bakura] was famous"
- It CAN'T be a coincidence that Thief King Bakura has the exact same personality as Dark Bakura; even Dark Yugi mused that the Thief King was Dark Bakura in the past.
- Why would Yami Bakura have his deck based on Bandit King Bakura's ka, Diabound. If he had absolutely no connection to Bandit King Bakura other than being a vessel, why would he have his deck focusing on Diabound's card counterpart?
Clearing up confusion
This post is to clear up any possible confusion about Yami Bakura, Thief King Bakura, and the extent that Yami Bakura was "controlling" Thief King Bakura during the anime during the final season. It's already established that Yami Bakura and Thief King Bakura are technically the same entity. The manga states that Thief King Bakura's spirit has been sealed in the Millennium Ring. Merely because a portion of Zorc's soul has also been sealed in the Millennium Ring does not change the fact that Yami Bakura and Thief King Bakura are technically the same. Therefore, when Yami Bakura entered the body of Thief King Bakura during the final season, he returned to his past body to ensure the events occurred in the same manner they occurred 5,000/3,000 years ago.
Therefore, Yami Bakura/Thief King Bakura is reliving his past in the same manner that Yami Yugi is reliving his past as the pharaoh, although in a slightly different way due to Yami Bakura being a portion of Zorc and also serving Zorc's desires. In other words, Yami Bakura is using the Thief King Bakura portion of himself to do what Zorc wants while the pharaoh wants to regain his lost memories. When the Thief portion is no longer needed, he would get rid of that portion of himself in favor of the more powerful Zorc. Whenever Thief King Bakura talks about his past or whenever it's mentioned, it's Yami Bakura, namely the Thief King portion of his spirit, talking about his past. No confusion should exist regarding the "extent Thief King Bakura was controlled" because during the episode where Yami Bakura reveals the entire thing was a Shadow Game in episode 210, Yami Bakura's spirit completely leaves Thief King Bakura's body, and Thief King Bakura is completely confused about the events taking place.
If it were true that mentioning Thief King Bakura's past is only the result of "the real Bakura talking and not Yami Bakura," then it wouldn't make any sense for Thief King Bakura to be confused about everything when Yami Bakura leaves his body. Each character in the Millennium World is essentially a living game piece. As explained in the anime and manga, when left to their own devices, they carry out their lives as they did in the past. However, when the spirits of their future selves enter their bodies, the living game pieces are likely unaware their future spirits were "controlling" them. This explains Thief King Bakura's confusion.
Also, Thief King Bakura's personality in the anime is not weak like Ryo Bakura's personality. Remember, it's stated that everything that occurred during the Millennium World Shadow Game occurred in the past in real life, save a very few differences. This means that Thief King Bakura would have eventually broken free from his chains and attacked the palace on his own devotion anyway without Yami Bakura entering his body. This would have never happened if he had the same personality as Ryo Bakura. Thief King Bakura probably had seemed weaker before he was turned to sand, but that doesn't mean he had the same personality as Ryo Bakura. In fact, he seemed more like himself, but just confused and scared that he was dying without knowing a thing about why it was happening.
Thief King Bakura's fate should not be confused either. Considering that the manga states that Thief King Bakura's soul is in the Millennium Ring, it's apparent that he wound up in the Millennium Ring and continued on as Yami Bakura, even with the portion of Zorc existing in it as well. The problem is that the anime or the manga does not explain exactly when both spirits wound up sealed in the Millennium Ring. One could assume that a portion of Zorc's soul was already sealed in the Millennium Ring since it was created and Thief King Bakura's soul was likely sealed in it after he sacrificed himself to release Zorc. The manga did state that Millennium Items serve as vessels of the souls of the people that control them and Thief King Bakura was the last person to hold the Millennium Ring in ancient Egypt, so it makes sense that the Millennium Ring served as a vessel for his soul after his death. --Archangel Audrey (talk • contribs) 21:46, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
I doubt that Zorc's soul was in the ring when it was first made. Dark Bakura remembered some things AFTER Zorc was resurrected, such as Hassan/Shadi, and if Dark Bakura's Zorc fragment was in the ring since it was made, then he wouldn't have remembered anything after the creation of the items and the death of Thief Bakura, and he killed Hassan/Shadi after the creation of the items and the death of Bakura, and Dark Bakura remembered Shadi, then I don't think that Zorc's shard was in the Ring since the creation of it. Scheepybird (talk • contribs) 13:50, September 19, 2015 (UTC)
- Indent Posts pls, makes things easier to tell apart.
- Just to point this out, the final anime Season was rushed as hell and didn't properly explain many many things. So don't take it too seriously, between the changes and the rush its much different then the manga. making that whole season a giant clusterfuck really....
- Dread (talk • contribs) 14:27, September 19, 2015 (UTC)