This is the talk page for discussing the page, Gravekeeper's.
Please try to
- 1 Gravekeeper's Chief
- 2 Gravekeeper Burn
- 3 Nobody
- 4 Too Many counter edits, lets get us some table!
- 5 Recommended Cards
- 6 Necrovalley Anti-Meta
- 8 Hey I Have a Rather Pertinent Question...
- 9 Edit warring
- 10 Members List
- 11 Gravekeeper Burn...
- 12 Gravekeeper's in ZEXAL?
- 13 WRONG Article Name
- 14 Oldest Archetype
- Thank you Rodtheanimegod4ever, problem solved.
I know that it is not a setup that is played very often, at least not in major tournaments, but would it be worth it to make a recommended cards section for Gravekeeper burn decks? Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 02:42, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
I actually agree with Nobody on this one. Cause the only Gravekeeper that actually burns is Cannonholder and he only does 700 Damage. Compared to other Burn Decks, this one would really really really suck. I mean, I'll give a B+ only on Creativity, but overall, the Concept and everything else, I would have to give a big ol' Fail Stamp on it. Although, if you want to be laughed at by all of the other Burn Duelist's then go ahead. But me, personally, I just don't see how it could be affective. Altyrell (talk • contribs) 03:22, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
If you don't see how it could be effective, then you obviously haven't tried it. The current setup I'm experimenting with does about 4000 damage easily at any given time. And have you ever heard of Dark Room of Nightmare? Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 22:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
-_- No i've never heard of that card *rolls eyes*. Yes i have heard of that card. While that deck might work for you, it isn't a widely used deck at Tournaments. Altyrell (talk • contribs) 23:08, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
- @Altyrell; Are you sure that's ONLY Burn Gravekeeper's? There are two if I recalled correct, Cannonholder himself AND Gravekeeper's Curse. I know that Curse sound lame, but he's still considering burn since 500 damage per summon sound still burn. You can revive him few times with Reborn, Royal, then Call and blast him off with Cannonholder easily. Then you can revive him to hand by Stele or Pot of Avarice/Monster Reincarnation, for moar burns. --FredCat Ta.P. • F.P. • J.R. • W.S. • Th.P. • S.C. 18:46, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
GraveKeepers Burn runs remarkably well, anyone who bought the Marik Structure deck can tell you that it came with Coffin Seller and Skull Invitation, combine that combo with Dark Room, and use Descendant and Curse, along with reborn cards to tribute curse, summon him again, burn a whole ton, destroy your opponents cards, burn them for that, then attack, the finale with gravekeepers Canonholder for amazing burn damage! Curse does 500 when summoned, skull invitation does 200 when a card goes to the grave, coffin seller does 300 for each monster destroyed, canonholder does 700, with 3 rite of spirit, and Gravekeeper's Spy, you can easily do over 8000 damage in one turn!
Leave the page alone. Simply because you do not like using Solidarity or Visionary does not make them useless cards for a basic Gravekeeper Deck. Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 01:46, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
I actually think adding the burn section of the deck is a great idea, as the deck did have tremendous popularity in the past, and with the latest support cards for the archetype, it could become powerful again in the current format. For those of you unfamiliar with the deck, it does NOT use "Cannonholder" to inflict burn, but "Wave-Motion Cannon" for its ability to end a duel very quickly once placed on the field, and protected. Obviously this isn't the entire theme of the deck, but I think I won't put it all in here.
If nobody else is willing to create a section on it, I for one will, as I know how effective the deck can be, or certainly was - and it was something I even expected to find on this page when I visited it. Over and Out --EndOfTheWorld (Its the EndOfTheWorld! Mwuhahahaha!) 18:40, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
I added in some cards for the Gravekeeper burn section. I think that Chief could be included in the monsters, because you can use his effect to bring back Gravekeeper's Curse and tribute both with Gravekeeper's Cannonholder to get between 1900-4600 damage (depending on Dark Room of Nightmare). Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 02:14, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
- I added in Cursed Bill. With Gravekeeper's Descendant, it can do some damage and clear out your opponent's monsters. Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 17:46, January 13, 2011 (UTC)
Too Many counter edits, lets get us some table!
In a similar fasion to Aliens, Batterymen, and that other one, I think we need a table on this one explaining card choices, in addition to deck subtypes, the reason for this is entirly not to stop nobody reverting edits <,<
|Gravekeeper's Assailant||Able to kill most monsters due to it effect, barring Stardust Dragon. Recomended to run 3.|
|Gravekeeper's Chief||It can be useful but the side effect is that people can take or target card from graveyard, slow compared to other gravekeeper monsters, due to requiring a turn to set up.|
|Gravekeeper's Commandant||Get Necrovalley right away, Highest attack of any 4 star Gravekeeper.|
|Gravekeeper's Descendant||Able to destroy any card on the field, easy to summon, easy to search, recomened to runn 3|
|Gravekeeper's Guard||Just for defense and bounce your opponent's face-up monster back to the hand. Usually better in non-pure Gravekeepers.|
|Gravekeeper's Priestess||Not required, but can be used as Necrovally on the off-chance an opponent is using Burning Land/Closed Forest.|
|Gravekeeper's Recruiter||If it get destroyed and sent to graveyard you can easily get assailant, descendant, commandant, or another recruiter i would recommend 3 copies|
|Gravekeeper's Spear Soldier||A decent beatstick, with Piercing, however, outclassed by many cards in the archtype.|
|Gravekeeper's Spy||Recomended 3 in every deck. Has a high Def, able to search out any gravekeeper & combos well with Gravekeeper's Descendant.|
|Gravekeeper's Visionary||It's a strong, one tribute with an effect to increase both attack and survivabilty, however it is outclassed due to requiring a tribute, when summoning an additionally monster will usually add more attack power.|
|Thunder King Rai-Oh||Slows down opposing decks, while being strong in itself, stops Synchro monsters. However, using it prevents the use of Gravekeeper's Recruiter. recommended in side-deck if you add this try to take out one or two recruiter|
|Malefic Cyber End Dragon||Sometimes used for a large beatstick, with easy summoning requirments.|
|Malefic Stardust Dragon||Can be summoned easily, and is able to protect Necrovalley.|
|Dark World||Due to them activating in the grave, they are unaffected by Necrovalley, and in addition, they activate when discarded by Royal Tribute leading to potential combos. For more information, click ->Here<-|
|Fabled||Similar to Dark World monsters, though some are more limited, due to affecting monsters other than themselves, can still provide a variation to the standard Gravekeepers deck. For more information, click ->Here<-|
|Ancient Fairy Dragon||If used against an opposing deck which uses field spells, this allows the destruction of theirs, to search for yours.|
|Tempest Magician||If running cards such as Plaguespreader Zombie or Deep Sea Diva, this provides an easy game finishing burn effect.|
|Necrovalley||Required in every gravekeeper deck, to enable effects, as well as a large ATK & DEF bonus, not to mention it seals the graveyard.|
|Gravekeeper's Stele||a +1 with a wide selection of targets, as the situation demands.|
|Royal Tribute||Discards all monster, which often leaves your opponent in a vulnarable position.|
|Solidarity||If the deck is entirely Spellcaster monsters, this provides a constant strong attack boost, which can enable use of Virus Cards even if Necrovalley is destroyed but there is really no point to add this card|
|Pot of Duality||While considered a Staple, it works most prominently in decks such as Gravekeeper's which have limited special summons.|
|Wave-Motion Cannon||Used in some builds due to the control the deck gives.|
|Rite of Spirit||A Call of the Haunted which is unaffected by Necrovalley, not usually ran due to its speed.|
|Deck Devastation Virus||By tributing a Gravekeeper, under the effect of Necrovalley, or Solidarity, this can clear the opponents field & hand of weak monsters, such as tuners, for the next 3 turns.|
|Royal Oppression||Due to the majority of special summons being during the Damage Step due to Gravekeeper's Spy, this card works well to counter many decks with the ability to quickly special summon|
I would suggest adding Magician of Faith as a card to bring back Necrovalley in the case where it is destroyed. Even with all the protection of Necrovalley, they can fail occasionally.I'd suggest using 2 in the deck, because you generally don't need it often enough for 3, but using 1, it wouldn't show up when you need it. I know this could be considered a staple, but I feel it is especially important for this deck. Zombiedude347 (talk • contribs) 14:09, April 26, 2015 (UTC)
There are so many reasons why this kind of Deck is relevant, then I will explain it at these following grounds:
(This is a Deck that I've developed at my Duel researches)
- Gravekeeper's Spy - It is pretty useful, has high DEF and allows a free Special Summon from your Deck. With Necrovalley, it becomes an impregnable defense
- Gravekeeper's Guard - Also boasts high DEF, including with Necrovalley active, and bounces one monster whose opponent has attacked with
- Gravekeeper's Descendant - Acts as an endless Exiled Force, destroying your opponent's monsters every time
- Gravekeeper's Recruiter - Is able to search any Gravekeeper, but is irrelevant compared to Gravekeeper's Spy
- Gravekeeper's Watcher - Looks useful against the Meta, since perhaps your opponent would use any effect whereby they discard the monsters themselves (such as Honest and D.D. Crow), thus shielding them from such a chaos
- Gravekeeper's Visionary - The "major" of any Gravekeeper Deck. He is easy to Summon and is able to overpower the Duel fiel with ease
- Doomcaliber Knight - Is able to take down any stronger Nomi monster, such as DAD or Judgment Dragon, making the Duel nothing harder for you
- Legendary Jujitsu Master - This is no Gravekeeper monster, but is a Semi-Staple at Anti-Meta Decks. He might belong to the Side of this Deck. Is indeed a counter against GB Decks.
- Plaguespreader Zombie - His self-revival effect is unaffected by Necrovalley, then it'll be a key for a Synchro Summon
- Dark World - They have an objection with Necrovalley since their effects do NOT target the grave, and yes, activate into there, thus getting a significant advantage
- Fabled - Just like the Dark World, they do activate in the grave and are unaffected by Necrovalley, they surpass this kind of Deck
- Necrovalley - Logically the key card of a Gravekeeper's Deck, increasing their ATK and DEF and preventing targetin and removal card from the grave.
- Gravekeeper's Servant - Has a splashable combo with Dimension Fortress Weapon, being able to cause a lock even in this Deck. At a mirror match, this would grant a great edge
- Royal Tribute - This is a trump card, granting firld control while making your opponent discard their entire hand of monsters
- Wave-Motion Cannon - Try to Stall your opponent while you wait for 8 turns to deal a severe damage and win the Duel instantly
- Magical Blast - Since this Archetype is entirely Spellcasters, this card is nice to deal severe damage if you control many Gravekeeper's. You may retrieve it from the grave to reuse it, but remember you must draw to progress.
- Royal Oppression - This card is fatal, since you'd negate the whole Special Summons and level the rate of Summons on the Field
- Judgment of Anubis - Is ideal to protect your Necrovalley, while you destroy your opponent's monsters and deal damage in one step
- Rite of Spirit - Acts as a costless Premature Burial for this kind of Deck, since Necrovalley forbids ressurrection, this should somewhat be useful
- Mask of Restrict - Monarchs cannot contend with this kind of Deck with their effects. The only backfire is that you cannot use Gravekeeper's Descendant's effect with this card active.
- Magical Explosion - Firstly designated for Magical Explosion FTK, but thanks to the Spell usage, you might blow up your opponent sharply.
- Tempest Magician - Is greatly easy to Summon in this Deck and relevant due to its Burn effect which would take down the opponent easily. Try using a Plaguespreader Zombie for easy Synchro summon of this monster
- Mask of restrict destroys Gravekeeper's decks. Did you not read this card's effect? Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 17:37, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right, this is the only backfire from this card! Thanks for the advice, Jon! Duelmaster3000
- At this point, Gravekeepers properly run are anti-meta in and of themselves. There is already and anti-meta Gravekeeper's section, and there is really no need to create another. In addition, many of the cards you have proposed, such as Gravekeeper's Visionary, are far from viable.
Dudes, my Necrovalley Anti-Meta was just a sample of that strategy, as I've been trying to develop my own version. But! There's just one thing that's outrageous here! Nobody is becoming too pretentious, and is using no more no less than profanity towards non-noob Duelists. I get truly upset with that fact, and I guess Duelists like Jon Kovacs and Resk are witnesses.
- I have noticed that User:Nobody- is a bit harsh with some of their comments. As far as the cards you listed go, it seems as though they either fit into one of the categories already on the page, or into the optional support section. You may want to put in a short section in the introduction part of the page talking about using Dark World monsters or Fabled monsters in Keeper decks, and possibly the capability of using them in Synchro decks. Just a thought. Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 00:52, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
Hey I Have a Rather Pertinent Question...
This is getting ridiculous. Look, I don't play the TCG anymore, so I don't know what's viable and what's not. Stop edit warring and discuss the changes here. Nobody-, list your rationale for why the cards are not viable. Jon Kovacs, list why you think they are viable. If this doesn't stop, the article is going to end up locked. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 04:37, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
- The cards should stay in because first off, Rite of Spirit is still commonly used in Gravekeeper decks, second, because Ancient Fairy Dragon is perfectly usable in synchro variants on basic Gravekeeper decks, and third, Judgment of Anubis may not be the fastest/ simplest way to protect cards like Necrovalley, but in Gravekeeper Burn decks and in decks where players can't afford to shell out the $18-44 necessary to make Malefic Stardust Dragon viable, it is still useful to have in. Also, if the cards were fine before Nobody- decided to delete the cards that he or she dislikes, then they should still be fine now. Lock the page if you feel it's necessary. I'm not getting into any "reverting war". Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 23:32, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Despite this above, you seem to be getting into an edit war here. Honestly, I would recommended that someone start a discussion about this at Forum:Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki Community Discussion. See what others users think of that issue (and just for this article, for all archetype articles. If this continues, maybe we should add a section to articles with explanations on why cards are not viable - that is if we can agree on what is and is not viable. I'm just offering suggestions, again I don't play the TCG anymore. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 00:13, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
Let's go through this card by card. First of all, the statement that Rite of Spirit is commonly used in Gravekeeper's is patently false. Gravekeeper's Stele is much better and much more popular. I defy you to find a topping deck with Rite of Spirit. Examining your second point, anyone with a pulse can see that Ancient Fairy Dragon is counter productive, as it destroys Necrovalley. You know, that field spell the deck relies on. It basically cycles them and gives you 1000 LP. So, basically, you synch out an otherwise useless level 7 (costing you at least 2 cards), destroy one of but two or three precious Necrovalleys in the deck, and gain 1000 LP from it. This is self-destructive. Finally, we examine Judgment of Anubis. Judgment of Anubis is simply outclassed by Malefic Stardust Dragon (Which, by the way, is $5). It's slower, guards Valley less effectively, and serves only that purpose. The cards weren't viable before I came, they were simply there. They should not be.
- I'd have to say that I also agree. Judgment of Anubis is fairly slow, does not prevent destruction by effect monsters' effects (such as Lyla, Scrap Dragon, and Dragunity Aklys). I also dislike the discard cost.
- Furthermore, Rite of Spirit is indeed unused and unnecessary in powerful Gravekeepers' decks. However, Ancient Fairy Dragon is conceivably useful to destroy an opponent's field spell, so I would advise keeping that card in (especially since Gravekeepers' don't use tuners, and therefore are likely to have spare space in their extra decks). Runer5h (talk • contribs) 03:27, March 9, 2011 (UTC)Runer5h
- I don't have all that much experience running the Gravekeeper's archetype, however, even I can see that Nobody-'s reasoning makes logical sense. Why would you run a slower, less effective version of a card, a card that essentially helps your opponent by destroying your trump card vs. them, and a card that is completely outclassed by another in the task it sets out to do? It's like using X-Saber Garsem instead of XX-Saber Darksoul. It's just silly. The fact is, many of the articles on this Wiki are flooded by the opinions of people who think that, just because a card works for them, it will work for everyone, just because they play a few games vs. weak individuals and happen to win. This is a perfect example of that. Nobody- tries to update articles to make them actually useful to the people who read them, rather than a laughing stock of worthless suggestions, which is what Wikia is often looked at as.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 03:29, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
- It's not random. In order to run Malefic Stardust Dragon, you need a normal Stardust Dragon as well. $18 for 1 Stardust+1 Malefic Stardust; $44 for 3 Stardust + 1 Malefic Stardust. The point being made was the cost in order to properly run the card. Also, there is a reason that the cards were in the OPTIONAL card section. No where does it read in the sections that the cards were in that they had to be included in every. single. gravekeeper's. deck. Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 21:58, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
- But our point is why would you run them in any. single. Gravekeeper's. Deck, when they are clearly outclassed or just plain worthless? Any card can potentially be run as an OPTIONAL card, whether it works or not, and I don't think we want every hair-brained person adding cards just because, for some bizarre reason, they think they work. Also, the Wikia doesn't cater to the needs of people who can't afford certain cards on other card articles, so why is there an exception for this one? And just saying, the idea of buying 3 Stardust Dragon, when you can't afford it and are running only 1 Malefic Stardust Dragon, just seems a bit stupid anyway. People should learn to use common sense if they run into those sorts of "dilemmas."--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 23:42, March 9, 2011 (UTC)
- You know, dudes, I absolutely disagree with the theories given by Nobody! He removed Rite of Spirit and Judgment of Anubis, just thinking those cards are irrelevant. However, I do not think Ancient Fairy Dragon would be a support, as this is a bit pointless. But those two cards are Semi-Staples at Gravekeeper's Decks. The first acts as a Premature Burial for this Deck, what should be a lucky sign, as this Deck prevents contact with the grave, and the latter protects Necrovalley as a Counter Trap, like you've been using a Solemn Judgment/Dark Bribe, and as an advantage, destroys a monster to inflict damage. And on, he dares remove Gravekeeper's Servant, either! This card's lock is splashable, despite it belongs to this Archetype, combo it with Dimension Fortress Weapon to keep your opponent from Milling your Deck and forfeit their Battle Phase. This is my opinion against the "Edit warring". --idiota3000 17:20, April 6, 2011 (UTC) Duelmaster3000
- Like I've told you before, Rite of Spirit and Judgment of Anubis should NOT be removed completely from this page. Rite of Spirit is indeed becoming unpopular due to the releasing of Gravekeeper's Stele, but it allows a Special Summon, unlike the Stele, besides of top-decking this card for extra Summons of Gravekeeper's monsters. Now Judgment of Anubis is logically outclassed by Malefic Stardust Dragon, but is a Counter Trap, and grants emergencial negativity in order to protect Necrovalley. If you ain't got no Malefic Stardust Dragon in play, you might use this card to negate a destroying Spell and decimating your opponent even more with an extra effect. I get really upset with that "edit warring", and this article should never be manipulated by a noob that defies other Duelists!
- Simply because Gravekeeper's Servant has "Gravekeeper's" in it's name, doesn't mean it belongs on this particular page. Put it in the Stall page, Lockdown page, or something like that if you feel so strongly about those particular cards. The issue with them is that they essentially would require you to build your deck around them, instead of Necrovalley and Gravekeeper's Descendent, like most current Gravekeeper's builds are. In addition, if your opponent wants to mill your deck, with Necrovalley active, it's pointless for them to do so. As for Judgment of Anubis, I've pushed for them once, and got overruled, so there is really no chance of winning that debate right now. Second, while I would agree with you that Rite of Spirit can do things for a Gravekeeper's deck that Gravekeeper's Stele cannot; again, I have already pushed for it's inclusion and been overruled. There is no sense getting angry over it; the argument is already over. Jon Kovacs (talk • contribs) 21:03, April 7, 2011 (UTC)
The box at the bottom that lists the members of the archtype only has five cards in it. Did someone forget to put the rest in and not notice? Just thought I'd mention it. I'd help myself, but my editing would probably just wreck the whole page.
(Forgot to sign, sorry)
- I know there's a discussion for it above, but it didn't really seem like it was discussed properly and just added for the sake of it. I really don't understand the concept of this at all. What makes Gravekeeper's better at utilizing Burn than other Burn variants? So much so that it should be mentioned on this page? This is an extremely obscure variant, even if it can be justified as viable, and I believe it should be removed.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 13:27, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
Gravekeeper's in ZEXAL?
I noticed that the page says that Gravekeeper's appear during Zexal, but I can find no other information on that. Could somebody on here tell me when and where do they appear either in the Manga or Anime?
- Shark's opponent in his flashbacks during episode 12 drops "Gravekeeper's Descendant". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 20:17, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
WRONG Article Name
It's GRAVEKEEPERS people, not GRAVEKEEPER'S. An apostrophe indicates ownership/possession of an entity that follows the noun being used. Gravekeeper's is not a figurative entity in itself, it is a QUALIFIER. You can't refer to something as just "Gravekeeper's". Even the card names are grammatically incorrect because the use of the letter "s" at the end of a noun object changes its mass qualification (a single entity as opposed to multiple entities), it necessitates that the apostrophe FOLLOWS it.--—This unsigned comment was made by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs)
- It doesn't matter. Konami chose to be grammatically incorrect. Every card uses "Gravekeeper's". Ergo, we also use "Gravekeeper's". Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:25, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
- The term "Gravekeeper's" is used by Konami to represent a story that was heard by the writers while creating Yami's back story and his confrontation with Marik. The story is basically a single man is chosen to protect the Pharaohs' Graves sites (usually known as pyramids, but latter were other types of memorials). This man was the head of a group in Egypt that would specifically help in protecting the grave sites from damage and would hunt down and brutally kill grave robbers. This person's title? Gravekeeper. So this archetype is a creation of characters that the Gravekeeper would have as employees. As such, "Gravekeeper's ___". --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 04:13, March 29, 2012 (UTC) (P.S. I love history :P)
The apostrophe S does show ownership. So the Gravekeeper's cards include the Chief, or Recruiter, for example, of the (unnamed and unseen) Gravekeeper. The ownership more applies as loyality/employment/status. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 04:19, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
- It clearly seems to be shorthand for, for example, "Recruiter of the [Gravekeeper]s." As we're aware that Gravekeepers are an archetype, it wouldn't be a massive leap of faith to assume they are organized in the world of Yu-Gi-Oh!, making it easily possible that it could also be shorthand for "Recruiter of the Gravekeeper [Clan]", for example. Point is, the name is fine. And for the record, we care more how Konami wants it than how one little anon seems to want it.--YamiWheeler (talk • contribs) 05:00, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
Toon is tied with Gravekeeper's for this stats, as Structure Deck: Pegasus released the same day and added true archetype support in Toon Table of Contents and Toon Defense, elevating Toons above merely a bunch of monsters that gained special effects with Toon World. Harpie also predates Gravekeeper's as cards, but all support was actually for Harpie Lady specifically, not the archetype in general, till after Gravekeeper's debut. There's also a few other old cards Konami randomly made into archetypes (Gaia) but those are less important to note. I'm not sure how to elegantly add these things. --Agiletek (talk • contribs) 19:18, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
- I think you're mixing up your sets. There are two sets named Pharaonic Guardian: one Japanese set, and one international set. The latter is the one which contains Gravekeeper's cards; the former is the one that was released on the same day as Structure Deck: Pegasus, but doesn't contain any Gravekeeper's cards. The archetype actually originated in The New Ruler, which was released almost 2 months after Structure Deck: Pegasus. Falminar (talk • contribs) 03:25, 19 October 2020 (UTC)