Talk:Lightpulsar Dragon

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Summoning Condition

Re: Summon Means -- The texts of this card, while similar to Dark Simorgh in terms of having two extra means of being summoned, are not similar to Simorgh in one important way. Essentially, it's a matter of Japanese grammar, but Simorgh's methods of summon write themselves out using a means seen mostly for activated effects, while Lightpulsar Dragon writes its own out in the way Grapha, Machina Fortress, and Endymion would.

As consequence, I'll be altering the page to reflect the way Grapha, Machina, and Endymion would likely be written today - the most important part of this is removing colons from the means of summon, to make clear that these means likely aren't activated effects. EDavidR (talk • contribs) 03:52, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure that Special Summoning it from the Graveyard is a Summoning Condition and not an Ignition effect? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 10:53, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

As sure as anyone could possibly be about a card before its release. All you need do is look at the other cards I mentioned, and you should see the similarity - there is no "koto de" framework anywhere near this card, and that specific framework was the one single means by which Dark Simorgh could be justified as having activated effects. Precedent of prior texts would hold this card to work as Grapha would, not as Simorgh would. EDavidR (talk • contribs) 13:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

If... or When...

So... Is this real? Can you really do the loop of death with it?—This unsigned comment was made by 66.91.199.222 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 2011 October 25

If the OCG says 場合、then it's "If" optional If the OCG says 時、 then it's "When" optional --KeytheTarget (talk • contribs) 06:25, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

____

The latest image making the rounds is allegedly a zoomed image of an ad Konami itself has produced.

The wiki's image is from a Jump magazine - the latest image and it disagree on which Kanji the card is supposed to use for its Trigger Effect.

The wiki's current translation follows the wiki's image. Essentially, this is a matter where we need more detail, and we're not likely to get more detail for a while yet - but if a quality photo of the latest image can be formed, we can then change things around.

The wiki's image is what permitted the combo; the latest image makes it expressly impossible. EDavidR (talk • contribs) 06:46, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I've talked about it to someone who knows Japanese and did find something. Before that, I went to look for the lore in Japanese sites and noticed that the one listed here is different from the Japanese site (and on the pic itself!).

This is the text I found on the Japanese site (and he confirmed that was on the pic itself): このカードは自分の墓地の光属性と闇属性のモンスターを１体ずつゲームから除外し、手札から特殊召喚できる。また、手札の光属性と闇属性のモンスターを１体ずつ墓地へ送り、このカードを自分の墓地から特殊召喚できる。このカードがフィールド上から墓地へ送られた時、自分の墓地のドラゴン族・闇属性・レベル５以上のモンスター１体を選択して特殊召喚できる。

Translated and re-worded it means: This card can be Special Summoned from your hand by banishing one LIGHT and one DARK Monster from your graveyard.Also, you can send one LIGHT and one DARK monster from your hand to your graveyard to Special Summon this card from your graveyard.When this card is sent from the field to the graveyard, you can select one Level 5 or higher Dragon-type DARK from your graveyard, and Special Summon it.

Additionally, he went to write this (do note that he isn't a follower of the game): "The difference as far as I can tell is only that one word　場合 (the case that) and 時 (the time). If there's any real difference between the texts, it's timing - the latter implies that the Special Summon can and must be performed immediately should the player wish to activate it (though this isn't the text on the card, so eh), the former only indicates that the Special Summon can be performed under those conditions (this is what's on the card). Just by chance, I saw where the wording would leave some doubt, but I'm not familiar with the rules enough to know the details (something about damage resolution throwing off the timing of that effect, making it illegal), and they said the OCG office hadn't ruled anything, though they likely know of the ambiguity."

So yeah, the effect should be written as "When this card is sent..." and not "If this card is sent...". MarxMayhem (talk • contribs) 07:10, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

What you found was the text from the "latest" image - where the Kanji "baai" from the Jump Magazine image are replaced with the Kanji "toki".

Your friend's take on the matter is almost word-for-word what I've used to explain the difference on other sites. He's quite good at explaining. Essentially, when a YGO card says "when", it means "if and when" - just like how the word "when" works when we normally use it.

For further reference on the ramifications of the matter, entries regarding missing activation timing are all particularly relevant. The change in question essentially changes the effect from one that has no specific activation timing, to one that does. And as we know, when the rules force a player to ignore an optional effect with a specific activation timing, that effect does not get a chance to activate later.

The older image's text - baai - was one without a specific timing; the rule for activating Trigger Effects that state activation conditions but no specific timings are simply "you make the decision at the first moment where you legally could activate me." The majority of strategies devised for Pulsar since its announcement revolved around "baai" - revolved around the right to put the question of its activation off as long as the game's rules needed you to. Without that, Pulsar alongside REDMD no longer provides free Tribute, Fusion Material, Synchro Material, so on. EDavidR (talk • contribs) 07:54, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

So, the "If" is real? I've seen this change left and right ALL day. I'm starting to wonder if there's just some really butt hurt person changing it to "when" now to protect their deck from being smashed to smitherines. --65.49.14.19 (talk) 00:13, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

The "If" comes from the first mockup image the card received for its advertisements. The "When" comes from the second - the second image is blurry, but is clear enough to be sure that "baai" is no longer on the card. Without "baai", the only term that fits the context of the card text is "toki" - thus "When". EDavidR (talk • contribs) 02:18, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Is there a link or a source to this image? Because the Japanese wikia says the same thing as our OCG text--KeytheTarget (talk • contribs) 03:53, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

K, in shriek's website, he/she has a clear close-up image of it, and i see 場合 in its text. So, i'm guessing it's "If" since you guys pointing out the difference. 70.79.73.202 (talk) 21:57, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it does say 場合 for IF so it should be changed from when to if. LastMinute (talk • contribs) 02:17, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, what the heck is going on?!

And now it's when, AGAIN --65.49.14.19 (talk) 00:17, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

While the repeat edits are wholly unneeded, it's understandable that someone might think "The Wiki just hasn't heard about the latest image yet", and some other person might think "the wiki's image says 'baai', and its translation says 'when', but 'baai' means 'if', not 'when'." This is nothing more than a case of us needing a better image of the newer ad. EDavidR (talk • contribs) 02:18, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, there we go. Thank you for clearing that up for me. I thought I was gonna lose my mind for a minute. ^ ^" --66.91.199.222 (talk) 02:28, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion, but best thing to do is...

Let's just leave the page as it is, until that card is released, along with the rest of the Deck. Ads can be falsified, and with that certain card maker (Orica, I believe), then we're pretty much easy to convince here.

Personally, I believe that the card does say "When". I'm pretty sure Konami is smart enough to realize the looping combination it can bring. Otherwise, it's banned after release and many people might facepalm at whoever decided over this card's effect.

The only real people who'll be affected by this before release is those who play at DN (includng myself), where cards not yet released (and thus no proper ruling established) make their way there. I'm not degrading the site, but because of this controversial card, what we're doing now is unfair to them. MarxMayhem (talk • contribs) 02:30, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

If you want to leave it as that ...

you should leave it as "If" , just like the crystal clear picture of the card says;

until a link or a picture that CLEARLY says "When" is uploaded onto here it would be really be confusing (and wrong) to leave the text as "When".

Also, whenever something is posted indicating informations from another site or another person, it would be nice to have a source or a link of said information.

--LuKe AA (talk • contribs) 10:12, October 29, 2011 (UTC)LuKe_AA

It's settled

It's been a long time since anyone posted. The official rulings from Konami say that the loop cannot be done. See for yourself. So anyone who was worried can relax.

Thank goodness.