Talk:Number 17: Leviathan Dragon

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This is the talk page for discussing the page, Number 17: Leviathan Dragon.

Please try to

  • Be polite
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  • Be welcoming


Are you guys sure this card's Type is Dragon? Is there any proof to that, aside from its name? Its name cannot be a proof, because Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier and Aqua Dragon says hi. Order (talkcontribs) 15:14, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

It is a Dragon-type monster. Check the Japanese name in the card and on the Dragon page. The characters are the same. --NejiHyuga900 (talk | contributions) "I am the Thunder Dragon!" 23:50, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Your reply is too late actually, I asked it during February, when the only pic we have is the manga pic :p But that's okay Order (talkcontribs) 14:36, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

why can't you guys just wait for konami to release the actual name for the card, instead of fussing over something thats going to be out in like a month or two. so just cool your engines and be patient like the rest of the people. please and thank you (talk) 03:56, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


You missed the "No. 17" ... I've edited it :)) Gotikaster 22:15, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Why is there a comma after the "No. 17"? That's not present in the Japanese name. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:24, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
In Shriek's website appears with a comma Gotikaster 22:26, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
I see that, but why are Shriek adding the comma? They've also listed the Japanese name with no comma. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:30, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
What is with the numbers? Fryhop (talkcontribs) 22:13, February 18, 2011 (UTC
Something to do with an entity called "Numbers". That's who possesses Ryoga. As ZEXAL progresses, we'll know more. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 23:09, February 18, 2011 (UTC)
If they use "Numbers" instead of "No." I'm going to rage. I was afraid TCG would do the same with "TG" and Tech Genious but luckly they didn't let me down.Dr MaxX (talkcontribs) 18:48, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

It was always Leviath, even in the OCG.[edit]

リバイス = Ribaisu; L = R; Ribaisu = Libaisu; S = TH; Libaisu = Libaithu; B = V; Libaithu = Livaithu; Vowels at the end can be ignored; Livaithu = Livaith; Livaith sounds like Leviath, so it's not a name change, they're just correcting the fan interpretation.

So it was always Leviath. Revise was an incrrect translation and we should be ashamed of ourselves. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 21:27, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Where are the proof that you get the translation? I see no links from the site, no evidence that it's not Revise. So if you don't have any proof, then stop doing this foolish thing! --FredCat 21:28, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
I send that right back at you. Do YOU have proof that the fan translation was correct? The Japanese represent TH with an S all the time. The mix-up for L and R is infamous. The thing with V was incorporated into the interpretation as "Revise" as well. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 21:32, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
L and R theory was already confirmed on twin part, they got L out of those things. Revise Dragon is NOT, I repeat that, NOT a fan translation, it's directly from SHRIEK OCG SITE! GO THERE AND READ THAT SITE BY YOURSELF! --FredCat 21:36, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Shriek is not an official source. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 21:39, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Shriek - twoday is an official source. --FredCat 21:41, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Um, it's not. Shriek only does translations from V-Jump Magazine, so the official source are V-Jump Magazines --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 21:45, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry? Are you official stupidity? is an official site that we always using to update this site. Revise Dragon's original name STAY. --FredCat 21:46, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
It's not an official site. It's run by people who are kind enough to provide translations of cards. They're NOT affilated with Konami, so they're not "official" --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 21:49, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Then you're an idiot. Deltaneos considered shriek.twoday official, Yami-Wheeler considered too. Therefore I considered it as official site. It had helping us get all pictures and names as well as lores update so far. Without it, this site broken and dead for good. --FredCat 21:51, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
The fact that you use it does not make it OFFICIAL. It would be official only if Konami approved it, which didn't happen yet.

Besides, there's always Manjyome for news. Argument invalid. --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 21:52, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Manjyome take all information from Shriek, therefore making shriek.twoday official source, you lost. --FredCat 21:53, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Ok, so why do you think Shriek is "official"? Because you use it? If so, I can call my grocery shop an "official grocery shop of town X" because I go there? --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 21:55, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Fine, if you considered them unofficial, then why not going on the thousand and thousand of articles that HAD shriek's translation names and remove them off yourself? I doubt you could make it in 3 days within a worth of edits. We used Shriek/Manjyome translation just because they got a good information and etc. that we can use to help all America voicing people understand what other languages' translates have told. So if you have no more objection, then sit down and cool your sweat heads already! If it's Revise, then it's Revise. End of story, you cannot make it "Leviath" yadda yadda! --FredCat 22:01, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Note that the topic right above us pointed out an error on Shriek. Reliability =/= impossible to make errors. Also, the fact that the name was written in Katakana means that it's particularly hard to get the right name from it. The official TCG name being Leviath makes it clear that of the tens of ways to interpret that Katakana, the correct way is Leviath. Therefore, the name was Leviath in the OCG as well. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 22:06, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Then go ahead, fixing the site all you want! THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ARTICLES WITH SHRIEK'S CUTE TRANSLATION NAMES! If you don't like this Revise Dragon's crap name, then why not remove them ALL, instead of just THIS SHIT ARTICLE!? If you cannot, then just accept the damned name and move on, you jerks. --FredCat 22:09, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
You know that we're arguing only over this? Most of the time Shriek is 90% correct. Also, it's not "thousands and thousands of articles with Shriek's translation", because there are only a few, below 100 for sure. --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 22:12, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Guys, can you please relax and calm down until we get Delt opinion? Please never forget that we're all here because we share the same passion. We shouldn't get mad at each other. Try to relax and talk to each other with respect. Wilimut TalkMail Paris, 22:14, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
We're trying to calmly explain it to him, but it seems that he's just too stupid to understand what we say --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 22:15, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Wilimut, but they are idiots, as they don't understand the reason why this site used shriek's translation. If they don't approve it, then they should go fixing them all by themselves and let's see if they can win the battle. --FredCat 22:16, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Only FredCat is being insulting in the slightest. I'm fine with waiting. Just one more thing. Shriek mis-translated Duality's Japanese name. The page for it lists the correct one. Why shouldn't we do it for Revise? Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 22:16, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
See, DirgtheDarkMonarch, you're using an insulting word: "stupid" / FredCat, you keep saying that they are "idiots". This is not fully respectful. FredCat, please, calm down and wait for Delt. It's sad that people here reach the point of fighting and arguing about something everyone likes... Wilimut TalkMail Paris, 22:19, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Pot of Duality's japan name was there, so is all other cards' names. Wash your eyeballs with bleach, for crying out loudly. --FredCat 22:21, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Shriek lists its name as "Pot of Greederosity". In reality, it's "Pot of Greed and Modesty". Undeniable proof that Shriek can be wrong sometimes --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 22:23, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
That's multiple meanings. It's like a "Run", it have multiple defines. For one part, it is an action word. On other hand, it's a affect word. You run away. I run for the president. The batteries is running out soon. Therefore Japan's translation ain't really perfect when coming to different languages. Shriek read that as "Greederosity" while other read it as "Geed and Modesty". So deal with it. --FredCat 22:27, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
You said "Therefore Japan's translation ain't really perfect when coming to different languages." Isn't that EXACTLY what we're arguing about? You just contradicted yourself, so your whole argument fells apart. Oh, "contradiction" might be a hard word for you, so let's just say "error". Also, if Shriek says it's "Greederosity", why you don't go to Duality's page and edit it? --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 22:30, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
That Japan's Translation name of "Pot of Duality" was changed by PsychicKid, so argue with him for that reason. The translation outside Shriek theory is actually true, but this site still accept the nearly-specify name and lores from Shriek all of the times. Let's see if you can translate the poem from Japan into English, without break the rhyme... --FredCat 22:34, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Why we'd have to argue? He's right, just as we are. You know, better log out, go outside, take a nap, rethinkk everything and come back. Thanks you for your attention. --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 22:37, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
No, the Japan's original change stay here, you cannot remove it at ALL. I am going to put both original and reality translation in that Duality's article and get over with it. It's just an evening here, not night. I only sleep during NIGHT TIME. So you shut the heck up and let the pro do the work. Delta would like Revise Dragon to stay in. --FredCat 22:40, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Deltaneos said that both are valid but Leviath is the correct one. Read better. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 22:41, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Screw you, burn-dude... I still vote the original name in. --FredCat 22:42, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Me and burnpsy vote for Leviath. That's 2-1. We win --DirgtheDarkMonarch (talkcontribs) 22:43, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
I believe "Revise" is the correct translation. Several translators I've seen have stated that "Leviath" is technically accurate, but is not a translation any of them would consider. Kevin Tewart also said that "Leviath" is correct, and he's well-known to be full of shit. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 00:26, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, Cheese... Now that's tie of vote. That's why I believe that Shriek ALWAYS win. --FredCat 00:27, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Though I believe he's right in this case, he isn't always right. Regardless of which name we end up using, I believe the other name should be retained in the article in some form via the "altname" parameter". Everyone sort of needs to calm down about this though. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 00:33, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Understand, and I need to get one for Pot of Duality too, it had original name before change into some silly reality name - "Pot of Greed and Modesty"... --FredCat 00:35, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
FredCat, Deltaneos makes it 3-2. Also, Greederosity just has no excuse to stay on the page. If you knew some Japanese, or even just ran the Kanji through Google Translate, you'd get "Greed and Modesty Pot". Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 00:59, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Dude, you're burn the solve off the page. So stop being so immature, I don't care if it's fan-made. Shriek is prove to be good information and details. You cannot remove it off after Cheese proved that it need to have an alternate name. If you don't want it there, then TALK about it, not rip it off from there. --FredCat 01:02, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
You're acting like a random user has power higher than an admin's opinion. I have no problem with Revise Dragon staying as an alt. My problem ATM is Greederosity not being a correct translation. Kanji is a completely different beast from Katakana, so you should just stop unless you know the language. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:04, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Delt said that both translations are accurate, but that "Leviath" is probably more accurate, did he not? So "Revise" should be retained in some fashion and the "altname" parameter does that. Nevermind, ignore this. Replies are coming in so fast that they're no longer accurate.Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:05, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Guess what, you're not controlling the site you want, so back off, newb. --FredCat 01:06, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
As I said, I have no problem with putting Revise as an alt translation, as long as it's not being mis-represented as the actual name. My problem now is that FredCat's putting Greederosity back on the Duality page. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:09, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
"Pot of Greederosity" was original Japan's translation, "Pot of Greed and Modesty" is English correct translation, before changed into "Pot of Duality", so leave it in. --FredCat 01:11, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
That depends. If that' the actual translation, fine. But if Shriek was flat-out wrong, we shouldn't keep the information (the rediret should be retained though, assuming it's a common mistranslation). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:14, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
No, "Greederosity" was a fan-term that Shriek coined. Now that we have the correct translation for that, nobody uses "Greederosity", and both the Kanji and Hiragana for the name do not support "Greederosity" at all, it's just left behind as a fan-term Shreik coined. Thus, it shouldn't be on the wiki. It's a completely different beast from "Revise Dragon", which actually can be right is one looks at the Katakana, since Katakana gives phonetics, not meaning. As such, you are the wrong one there. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:15, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Such a loudly mouth, ain't he, right - Cheese? I am still call "Pot of Duality" Pot of Greederosity though... --FredCat 01:16, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
If what he says is true, then it should be removed, IMO. Though, again, if Shriek coined the term and it was commonly used, the redirect should be retained (or created if there isn't one already). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:18, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I would advise both of you to stop editing the "Pot of Duality" page until this is sorted out. Otherwise, it may end up locked (though I can't lock it myself, since I'm involved in the dispute). Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:20, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I would once he get his brain straight. He loudly declared that Kuriboh = Dark Magician... which is completely wrong. Dark Magician is magician and Kuriboh's just furball freak. --FredCat 01:21, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
That's not what he meant. He was comparing the situation here to someone calling those two cards the same. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 01:22, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I already called Deltaneos for that one. Still, FredCat's logic for putting Greederosity on the page is faulty. It should be on because he uses it? He doesn't own the site as much as I don't.

Also, I gave the example that if I called Kuriboh by the name Dark Magician, we wouldn't add that to its page. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:23, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

Have D-Neos answered yet? Nope! That name is just there, and if you want a prove why Greederosity is fake name, other than Shriek and it buddies since you called them unofficial and shit, give me a prove why it is not real name. Thanks and shut up if you have no evidence for them. --FredCat 01:24, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
As I said, try translating the name for yourself for a sec. Use your knowledge of Japanese to translate that Kanji/Hiragana. You won't get Greederosity, I guarantee it. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:26, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Ain't ask for that, I asked for the link of site of prove where you get that evidence. Simple translation won't help. As many Google translation are untrusted, in my view. --FredCat 01:28, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I didn't say you did. And try running it through this site: That isn't Google Translate. Nor is the Detailed Word Info button on this site: Run the Kanji through the second site, and it says 強欲 = Greed, 謙虚 = Modesty, 壺 = Jar/Pot. It breaks down the term and gives the meaning of the separate pieces. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:34, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
So how did "and" plus "of" come out of that current name? "Pot of Greed and Modesty"... It's under English Translation though it's still Japan's clearly to understand translation. "Pot of Greederosity" was and is still original first revealing translation which the expert had believing to prove. --FredCat 01:36, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
The full name in Japan was 強欲で謙虚な壺 translating the bits I pointed out above, you get: GreedでModestyなPot. Need I explain what those symbols in between are? Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:38, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

i might be wrong but doesnt the name have "Vice" in its katakana and otta count for "Vice" like vice dragon and vice berserker? Chiissu (talkcontribs) 01:40, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

"Baisu" can sometimes be interpreted as "Vice". Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:42, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Now this, like I have told you before repeat, is the why "Pot of Greederosity" stay. --FredCat 01:43, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Clarify yourself. I just explained how anyone who knows what the Kanji means would end up with GreedでModestyなPot. Do I actually need to explain what those symbols in between are? Honestly, I brought up the Japanese language and your argument is "Shriek used it". "Shriek used it" is not a valid argument, really. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:46, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Bear with it, get over with this. You don't always win the argue. I have not win few of argues in my past as well. Just please stop this shit mess for now and just move on. Just accept the fact that "Pot of Greederosity" is just first translation of Pot of Duality's Japan Kanji. If Admin decided to disagree with that, let them do the work since they're the boss. You're not the boss of this site, and you cannot order me to listen into this and gave a weak evidence like that you just post. "Dark Magician" was original "Black Magician", but it changed to prevent racism. So why not Pot of Greederosity. So I am tired and need to going bed. So be you if it's nighttime over your place. --FredCat 01:49, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
The first translation. The wrong translation. You already lost the argument the second I pointed out that the translation was incorrect, since we use the correct one. Just zip it and let Deltaneos respond. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 01:54, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

OK... Back to the topic, I really think it was Leviath Dragon from the beginning too. "Ribaisu" would have been "Ribaizu" if it was translated by "Revise". "Ribaisu" would be translated by "Revice" (which does not have any sense...) but more likely by "Leviath" (Ri -> Le, "bai" -> "via", "su" -> "th"). HPZ - O.N.E. (talkcontribs) 08:41, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Burnpsy... Look at this history page of the Ape Magician, there is a website proof that we are using the one you declined. Therefore I won the argument. --FredCat 13:30, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
They had 2 fan sources. Majyoume and Shriek. Both of them are good at giving info. Their translations, however, are a different matter. I did not argue that we use them as news sources. As I said, just wait for Deltaneos' opinion on the matter. As for Duality, I'll have to switch which one is the "alternate" and which is the "translated", as we did for "Revise" here. Consistency is better, if it's being kept. But we won't know if it'll be kept until Delta shows up. In any case, I'm done arguing with a brick wall. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 13:36, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Good, I am happy that you're not take them out. And you still lost the battle yesterday, as you never take your chance to remove them if you disagreed with the reason of why Shriek's translation confirmed to be fake. Therefore that's two against you. Cheese and that unregistered user put them in. --FredCat 13:42, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I am merely waiting for Deltaneos' response. If I removed it, you'd have just added it back on again. You didn't win. In any case, as I've said several times, STFU until Deltaneos says something. We called him so he gets the final say. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 14:14, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
In first, it was Cheese who give me the way to put it in. He put the alternate name in THIS article's translation. And D-Neos responded. --FredCat 14:16, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
There is no more reason to argue then. I don't care if you think you won or lost this. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 14:20, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Then be appreciate that your translate words got in there. --FredCat 14:22, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
The response on my talk page was:
Japanese doesn't have as many syllables as English, so sometimes uses similar ones instead. For example, they don't have a "le" syllable, so use "re" (リ) instead. There're many other examples. As a result some foreign words have the same spelling when written in Japanese. "リバイス" is a valid spelling for both "Revise" and "Leviath". "Leviath" is what the English version is using and the card is a Leviathan, so I think we can assume it was the intended Japanese name too. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:23, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
When two words have the same spelling (e.g. wind) you determine which one was intended by the context. The card is a leviathan and the English version using it support "Leviath". I don't see any context for "Revise". Shriek may have just not realised the other possible translation when they first translated it. Why don't the translators Cheesedude mentioned think "Leviath" is considerable? -- Deltaneos (talk) 14:49, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Because in most cases (and all cases when it comes to cards, so far), "Leviathan" is truncated to "Levia", never "Leviath". Due to this, everyone assumed it was "Revise", since it is also a valid translation. It's either a case of Konami deciding not to be consistent or a case of an incorrect translation. At the very least, can we agree that some mention of "Revise" should be retained in the article? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 15:28, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, that is the whole reason why I fought to keep the "retained" name in the article - not delete it or anything. I respect your opinion about the dragon's correct name, but it's also important that it should keep the original name, like "Revise Dragon" as it was first appearing in Shriek site. And I already proved Burnpsy that Shriek and it partner did the work. --FredCat 15:31, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to try to provide some context for why "Revise" may be accurate, though I'm probably overthinking it. First, it's one of the first Exceed Monsters, which is another "revision" to how the game is played. Secondly, Shark's personality is "revised" when the card possesses him and after the card is taken from him. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 15:36, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Interesting... but shouldn't Earthbound Immortal do same with Rex? Or was that complete different point? --FredCat 15:39, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Well sure, you could make the argument that a lot of monsters "revised" the personalities of their owners, but that's not really relevant to this. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 15:43, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Still, this dragon deserved the name "Revise Dragon" from start, EBI just there for corruption and enter the darkness, where the death have announce to the deceased folks. --FredCat 15:44, May 19, 2011 (UTC) It's Leviathan Dragon. (talk) 14:42, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

That's not true official site. So we are not going to use that. --FredCat 14:54, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
Kevin Tewart is a Konami employee. As full of shit as I do believe him to be in a lot of cases, he sort of is an official source. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:10, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
He says it's "Leviathan", but that's wrong since there's no "an" syllable. "Leviath" is legitimate, but "Leviathan" isn't. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:20, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
And that's exactly what I mean when I say he's full of shit. If they want to change the name, that's fine, but he goes and claims that "Leviathan Dragon" is the proper translation when it isn't. This is far from the first time something like that happened. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 00:15, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
Guys, I don't know how to speak, write, and read Japanese; but I do know some letter's in Eng are normally sounded diff. in Jap like "B", "L", "R", "V", etc (Su=s or "th"). What we could do is leave "Revise" for OCG and "Leviathan" for TCG for OCG and TCG diff.. Many sites claim the OCG for this is "Leviathan" except Shreik and Monjoyme... or more. (Jap Pronounce). "Ribaisu" R=L; B=V and S=S. Please look at this card "Levia-Dragon - Daedalus" it has "Ribaia"(Levia) for OCG and Jap. I; and "Ribaisu" (Livia) We just have to know what's "su" in english it's either "S" or "th".--Wasn't (talkcontribs) 18:52, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, we know, that's how the whole issue has arisen. Because Japanese pronounces some letters the same, foreign words can have the same spelling when written in Japanese. "リバイス" is a legitimate spelling of both "Leviath" and "Revise". There's no questioning that. The question is which meaning is intended. Popular fansites have used "Revise". Konami have now used "Leviath", but people are insisting that the fansites had it right. Read above for arguments in favour of each. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:20, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Actually the whole problem is "su" these to letters can be either "th" or "se"(pronounce as "ice"). "User:Burnpsy" said +/- "it was always Leviath". I think this can go both ways; you can say "Revise" or "Leviath" since they're very close in...(don't know the word). I think we should keep Revise" for OCG/Jap "Leviath for" and TCG/Eng Konami just used "Leviath" meaning they agree with TCG/OCG currently Whoever argued B4 us about "..." is also rite so I don't know who to rule 4. What do you think?--Wasn't (talkcontribs) 20:44, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

When it's confirmed, we need to move the page to "Number 17: Leviathan Dragon". Does anyone have an objections to using "Leviath" for the "trans" parameter and "Revise" for the "altname" parameter. If not, maybe we can end this. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 00:15, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
I would hold the vote with him, only if he had enough coffee to stay on topic. And I am surprise how long this discussion still going on. So cheer, let's decide on this part. --FredCat 00:19, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
Why do we have "Leviase" on the page now? That doesn't even make sense as a word. Burnpsy (talkcontribs) 00:33, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
For first time, I am on the same page as Burnpsy here, and this time I am in the control. I would like to know where that oddly name coming from, with a proof please. --FredCat 22:48, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
Forum:"Revise Dragon" is wrong. This was discussed a long time ago. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 22:50, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
We knew that, but I meant for "Leviase"? That forum is for "Revise"... --FredCat 23:28, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea what's going on anymore, but I'm going to chime in with a tl;dr of my thoughts: -Shriek is not an official site and tends to give cute little nicknames to cards, regardless of their accuracy. -強欲で謙虚な壺 translates to Pot of Greed and Modesty. で links two adjectives together and effectively translates as "and." -リバイス is some sort of bizarre truncation of リバイアサン which is one of about 7 ways to spell Leviathan in Japanese. Konami has used リバイアサン or portions of this spelling in cards before, and sometimes has used different spellings as well. No one method is "more correct" than the other. PsychicKid (talkcontribs) 05:17, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

The alternate names are used for different names of cards which are used by official sources. Since Revise Dragon is proven to be the wrong name and Revise hasn't been used by any official source I don't see the point in it being there. Fan translations or fan sites (like this one) are not an official source. Master D (talkcontribs) 12:45, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

One Konami employee saying Revise is wrong does not make it so. Every single fan translator I've seen uses "Revise" and says it's a valid translation, and at least one is a native speaker of Japanese. The odds of every single one of them being wrong are not very good. As I've said, Tewart twists things like this all the time. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:30, May 25, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, they're both valid reasons, but the chances are higher that it's actually Leviath rather than Revise. Just because it's used by all fan translators still doesn't make it right. Can you give me one good reason why it should be Revise? All logic, even the card artwork, points to it being Leviath. Also, I never said they were wrong, Revise and Leviath are both acceptable without confirmation by an official source, however plain logic points more to Leviath than Revise, which is my point. Master D (talkcontribs) 20:04, May 25, 2011 (UTC)
I gave a few reasons why "Revise" could be right above. In addition, its attack name as consistently been translated as "Vice Stream". "Levia Stream" simply doesn't sound right. I'm not arguing we need to move the article back, or even use "Revise" as a translation. I just want "Revise" retained via altname, since it IS a valid alternate name, translation wise. Even if it's not the intended translation, it's still a possible one. The fact is that many people, including myself, are never going to think "Leviath Dragon" when they see this monster. I'm always going to see it and say "that's Revise Dragon". Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 20:14, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

I found two cards that have "su"(ス) in its name: "Clear Vice Dragon", "Neos"◄(ネオ(ス)), "Elemental Hero Plasma Vice"◄(マン= man), "Vice Berserker"◄(バイ(ス)), and "Vice Dragon". "su" is "s" not "th".--Wasn't (talkcontribs) 02:06, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

"ス" is the character for "su". The Japanese language pronounces the "TH" sound as an "S" sound, and "CE" can be as well. "Thunder" in Japanese is "Sanda", and when "TH" or "CE" (in most cases) is at the end of a word, a "U" sound is added to make it "SU". Each word in Japanese must end in a vowel, except for "N".

In this case, "Rebaisu" is broken down into "Re-ba-i-su". "Re" becomes "Le". "I" is often placed next to another vowel to change the pronunciation, so "Ba" becomes "Bai" which changes to "Vi". "Su" is tricky, but when looked over and compared to the relation of the card, we see the dragon based on the "LEVIATHAN". So "I" and "Su" are combined into "Isu" where it then becomes "Ith". Together, "Rebaisu" becomes "Leviath". There's your language lesson for the night. Komodo19 (talkcontribs) 03:18, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Leviath vs. Leviathan[edit] Proof it's Number 17: Leviathan Dragon. Can we drop it now?Aniodia1 (talkcontribs) 17:27, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Site like says "Revise Dragon". This topic was already dropped. someone just forgot to delete it. This is one of the card that causes conflicts in its name choosing. "Komodo19" and "Deltaneos" explained how this card is "Leviath". The site you gave was for Eng/TCG. This is the longest single topic in "yugioh.wikia" history so far.--Wasn't (talkcontribs) 19:33, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

one nore site't (talkcontribs) 19:38, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

While I do get where it transliterates into "Leviath", I would think that with the whole "Exceed/Xyz" ordeal people would be a little more hesitant to accept fan translations (like the janime sites you're linking) at face value. Not to mention the difficulties translating between an IndoEuropean-based language and a Altaic-based language. Then again, even earlier today I've had people tell me it was "Leviath Dragon" and pointed to the bad ToyWiz tin mockup as a better source than an Official Konami Website, so que sera, sera. Aniodia1 (talkcontribs) 19:54, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Do you know who decide the translation for cards"? what's "que sera, sera"? you must be Spanish or French.--Wasn't (talkcontribs) 20:05, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

The problem with Xyz/Exceed was that Xyz has no pronunciation. The fan translators later said "Xyz" is a good translation, but they assumed it was wrong since you can't pronounce it as a word. The closest English equivalent to its romaji was "Exceed". This is not the case with this card. The obvious pronunciation was "Revise", with "Leviath" also obviously being possible. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 00:39, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... looks like I was wrong. =/ --Dinoguy1000 (talk contribs) as (talk) 01:19, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't it "Leviath"? I'm confused now? 1st this was "Revice", then it became "Leviath" and now it that + an? What's next.?--Wasn't (talkcontribs) 02:49, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

It was, but then Konami posted their own info... and now, it's Leviathan. ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 04:17, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
So... this image was an early release error or a very convincing fake? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:28, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
Hard to tell until we get a better image of the real tin, I think (if even then). ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 06:09, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
That image was originally a mockup posted by Toywiz that Shriek people saw and, well, I wouldn't say stole, but the Toywiz mockups "made their way" onto Shriek, and since people still think Shriek is relevant, went with the pictures they had as "official". Aniodia1 (talkcontribs) 14:38, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
Shriek is usually a good source. No one is infallible, and Shriek NEVER claimed they were official. Any users of this wiki that claimed it was are in the minority. Calling Shriek irrelevant is doing them a disservice. They have no obligation to do anything they do for the YGO community, but they do. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 16:50, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Is the English version supposed to not have an 8-digit serial number? Skullvarnish (talkcontribs) 13:36, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Not all English cards have an 8-digit serial number, like gate guardian for example (talk) 16:08, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Tough luck, this card's English version does HAVE 8-digit serial number. --FredCat 16:33, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ha, the picture that was on here before without an 8-digit number was a fake, as I suspected. Skullvarnish (talkcontribs) 16:39, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Konami regularly uses images of cards without card (and sometimes even set) numbers. ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 20:13, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

OCG Name[edit]

I am certain it's Levice Dragon (portmanteau of "leviathan" and "vice"). Its attack is Vice Stream, Leviath doesn't even fit with the romaji and there is a Number C32: Marine Biting Dragon - Shark Drake Vice. MadRest 18:34, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

I'm certain about this as well. Where did "Leveiss" comes from anyway? Just because of Shark Drake Veiss?? That's a TCG name -_-

Besides, Veiss makes sense for CNo. 32 because it is white. However, there's no white at all on either Shark himself or No. 17, therefore it doesn't make any sense if バイス is supposed to be Veiss. It makes much more sense if the OCG intended バイス to be Vice, not Veiss, it's just that TCG decided to go with Veiss instead.Order (talkcontribs) 00:32, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

It is completely white in the manga, where it originally appeared. (talk) 02:16, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Number meaning[edit]

Does anyone know the meaning of this card's Number? This card being the 17th Ghost Rare was coincidental as that was after this card made its official appearance in any form. If anyone has an idea, please put it down here.Cardsknower (talkcontribs) 02:22, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

It's an obviously Trivial, so it's better off not required to put it in. So what happened to your usually "If it is wrong, I will leave it alone" pattern, Cardsknower? --iFredCat 02:45, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
I never placed that number meaning in there. That was placed there way before I first edited that page. That pattern I previously did is not always done currently. This is usually if I place something people may revert or argue against. I would not put anything that was removed as it's for a good reason usually. Anyways the Number 17 in this card's number has a meaning somewhere. It will just take some time for me(or not at all).Cardsknower (talkcontribs) 05:08, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

I know it is a little out there, but what about its relation to H20?

Atomic number for Hydrogen (H) = 1

H2 = 1 x 1 = 1

Atomic number for Oxygen (O) = 16

1 + 16 = 17

NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 05:24, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

well, that kinda does connect to water, but not exactly to Leviathan Dragon himself. I mean, Shark is not it's finite user, and it's effect does not include Water support. The 17th Ghost Rare makes a bit more sense to me.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 12:50, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
You know, the next "bad" Number introduced was Number 34, which is twice the value of 17, the first evil Number. Maybe that has something to do with it?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 12:52, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Also, there is Number 32:
H2 = 1 + 1 = 2
2 x 16 = 32
NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 12:55, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
You know, when you put it that way... It does sound like synchronicity.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 12:57, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
This is going out on a limb, but this card's Number may refer to this card's Rank. If the number 17 is written and then connected together, it forms a triangle which is three-sided which refers to this card being Rank 3.Cardsknower (talkcontribs) 18:09, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Really, it forms a triangle?! How can you sink any lower than that? Please stop trying to guess what the number is based on. The H2O theory is also out; if a Number has some meaning, then it would be one that is easily identifiable, not one that you'd need multiple equations to get to. (talk) 19:34, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
The fact it relates to H2O was very easy to spot and is very creative. What makes you think you know everything about Numbers? NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 21:50, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
If that's the case, it being the 17th Ghost Rare card makes the most sense, since this was the earliest to be recognized by admins.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 21:53, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Well yeah, but Numbers can also have second meanings. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 21:56, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Has anyone of you heard of the synchronicity?--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:00, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but my Clear Mind has trouble thinking what that has to do with this. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 22:04, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
Not Synchronization, Synchronicity. It's a phenomenon that explains how seeminlgy unrelated events are connected somehow. Such as the wrong phone number someone receives that matches the lottery numbers for the jackpot. Or the rambling of a drunk person to inspire a sidewalking individual to reconsider an important decision that has absoluetely nothing to do with the rambling. I believe the fair explanation would be "A butterfly flaps it's wings, and causes a storm on the other side of the world". My point is, there might have been only one meaning for each Number in the beginning, but people have been finding various others, with may or may not be coincidental. And the more meanings does a Number gather, the greater does it's concept become.--Hawk00Refferencer (talkcontribs) 22:10, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
That all makes sense. But just to clarify, Clear Mind is also called Perfect Synchronicity. NMBRHNTR64 (talkcontribs) 22:14, May 18, 2013 (UTC)