Talk:Number 39: Utopia

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This is the talk page for discussing the page, Number 39: Utopia.

Please try to

  • Be polite
  • Assume good faith
  • Be welcoming

Monster Effect[edit]

It's not "remove from play". I was confused when I saw that since the first translations all said "remove", so I checked other websites, and to "remove" an EMM means to send it to the Graveyard. A Wikia contirutor (talkcontribs) 16:57, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

negating effect?[edit]

so, this monster can negate your own monsters' attacks because that's what happened in the manga (Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL - Rank 004). (talk) 03:49, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

Can you chain this card with a card like Mirror Force to stop the attack ? (Meklordsa5m (talkcontribs) 15:33, March 14, 2012 (UTC))

No, that won't work. Check its OCG Ruling. Shardsilver (talkcontribs) 15:53, March 14, 2012 (UTC)
Shard is right - Utopia's effect is Speed Spell 1, slowest of all. --FredCat 16:02, March 14, 2012 (UTC)


So, you can only negate your own attack, and not an opponent's? Aside from using Double Up Chance, WHAT'S THE FREAKING POINT!? QuartrGuy (talkcontribs) 05:57, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

lol no, it says "a monster", so you can negate the attack of your opponent's monster AND your own monster. (talk) 07:37, April 19, 2011 (UTC) bad. QuartrGuy (talkcontribs) 02:34, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

New Name[edit]

What? Number39: Utopia? Is that confirmed? What was wrong with Hope? Hope isn't religious or anything, in fact Utopia sounds more religious than Hope, so why change it? It was a good name! What are the guys at Konami America thinking? This doesn't affect me as much thou, since I already have the Japanese card and will probably still call it Hope since that's what's written on it, but I still think it's weird. A Wikia contirutor (talkcontribs) 20:26, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

We know that Hope is not that evil... or just related to "Bible", where the woman accidentally open the box, leave with a "hope". Either that or Konami took too much tobacco... --FredCat 20:34, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Pandora's box has nothing to do with the Bible; the former is a Greek myth. ;) ダイノガイ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:10, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
You just hit the bell, but still it sound like religious to me. Like I said first time here - Either that theory or Konami just took too much tobacco up their lungs. --FredCat 21:12, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Y'know, I just typed "hope" into the search bar and got, like, 8 different cards that aren't the Aspiring Emperor, so I don't know why they changed it. Fred's smoked up idea is starting to sound more and more likely. And I don't think it's a religious reason either, since Number 17: Leviath Dragon is named after the Leviathan, which is all revelations and rapture and stuff. Also, I hate that name too. Revise sounds more awesome, but again, I have the JP card, so I don't care so much since I won't be looking for an English copy. A Wikia contirutor (talkcontribs) 21:31, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Just go living in Japan and be happy there then. --FredCat 21:33, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
You don't need to be a jerk. I buy japanese cards because they come out faster than English cards do and I'm impatient. It's my choice, and if what I said annoys you, then I'm sorry, but say it nicely. A Wikia contirutor (talkcontribs) 22:09, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
Not your fault, some user just try to control the site in his way he want. For here, I only try to be sure that it's reference to the relate of myth story or religious. And I understand that it's hard to accept the name change, I disliked how yadda they made on E-Hero's names, from Featherman to Avian, and Burst Lady into Burstinatrixlalalala... I respect your choice of words. --FredCat 22:11, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, it's not nearly as bad as the alleged U.S. name for the variety of the monsters. I mean...Xyz Monsters? They're calling them Xyz Monsters? They had the B**** to change Exceed Monsters to XYZ MONSTERS!?!? NO!!! NOOOO!!!!! Does not compute!! DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!! QuartrGuy (talkcontribs) 03:11, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
It's EKUSHIIZU in Japan. From that, I think we can safely assume Xyz is being read as "Eksyez" - ekusyiezu in Japan, which sounds VERY similar to Ekushiizu. So it is possible that since the beginning they meant "Xyz" instead of Exceed. You can say it like "Excess" (yes, that would means someone much earlier who translates it as "Excess" was actually correct) and it would make sense, since stacking the cards technically creates an excess of amount of cards on the field. Besides, isn't "Exceed" would be "Ekushiido" in Japan, not "Ekushiizu"? (talk) 09:33, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
When I heard "Utopia" for the first time i hoped it's just bad joke. Leviath Dragon maybe but THIS? And XYZ? What were they smoking when they invented these awesome new names? —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) 13:22, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Well, be happy that they don't put a nasty and strange name than that names. And be sure to sign your four tildes at end of your comments once you publish. --FredCat 13:27, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Aspiring Emporer Hope was one of the best names they've come up with for an Xyz yet. Then they change it to Utopia. Now that really sounds religious. Kilimow (talkcontribs) 00:50, May 28, 2011 (UTC)
Or new theory; or rather ancient theory as it affected the previous cards' results - That they don't want the length of card's name too long to fitting in the card's name border. Like for silly reason on "Red-Eyes Black Dragon", it "Black" word was changing into abbr.; "B.". So for this theory, since of "No." have changed into "Number", therefore made Konami think that it's better to reduced from it japan name into current English Name we have seen right now. --FredCat 14:21, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Going with that theory then why didn't they just made it Number 39: Hope? or Number 39: Emperor Hope? the former is even shorter then "utopia", I just feel like Konami USA just wants to ruin the great original names to some lousy dub name.LDEvolution 01:19, 29 May 2011 (UTC

Anime effect[edit]

can we be sure that its last effect about destroying itself is true? In Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL - Episode 008, Fuya uses D.D. Jet Iron to attack Hope who has no Xyz Materials, but doesn't destroys itself. Sure, Yuma activated D.D. Murder Method - Vector Change, but it's still selected as an attack target. LastMinute (talkcontribs) 01:54, June 20, 2011 (UTC)

Translated Name[edit]

I've changed the name to "King", because "Ō" is more commonly used for kings in this wiki, and "Emperor" is usually pronounced "tei". MadRest 15:41, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Read the kanji. It's not 王, it's 皇, which is translated as "Lord" on the Sacred Beast cards. Same pronunciation, different meaning.--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 02:00, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

On Tangorin, a very trusted translator, it translates it as Emperor. And don't trust previous translations, many of them are wrong. Actually, it translates them as Emperor on the Sacred Beasts as well; don't use the TCG name, look at the translated one. MadRest 11:37, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

Utopia's Japanese name[edit]

Why was it changed? The past translation was accurate. 希望 means "aspiration", but can also be a verb (hence 'aspiring'), and 皇 means "emperor", despite the "Ou" reading (which is how "king" is usually pronounced). Yes, the Japanese language is confusing but in some naming, it's not so hard. I'll be changing it back now. MarxMayhem (talkcontribs) 01:56, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

The user who changed it listed his rationale in his edit summaries and at his talk page. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:03, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
希望 is most definitely not a verb. It is a noun. You're looking for 望む, which means "to hope (for)." Yes, the Japanese language frequently leaves room for interpretation, but the clearest literal translation of 希望皇 is "Lord of Hope." He is "Hope, Lord of Hope," so yes, Konami did the right thing calling him "Utopia" in the U.S.--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 02:05, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
I agree, but why was it translated to Lord? On a very accurate translator, it says that Ou, in this case, means Emperor, Imperial. If anyone doesn't mind, I'd like to change it back to emperor and also instead of Hope use Aspiration since it seems repetitive. MadRest 11:34, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Similar to "Sensei" word - it also meant for Doctor, Teacher, or ever adult version. That word is not only one with multiple meanings. Let's say about "Baka" that I frequent used; but it don't mean as an idiot. --FredCat 11:38, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but there are many translated card names on this wiki that translate 皇 as Emperor, and not Lord, so it would make sense for this card to correspond with the others. MadRest 11:57, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Madrest has a point. I was withdrawing myself from replying yesterday, but what I wanted to say is that "Kibō'ō Hōpu", like many others, is a title, a name, and as such, we shouldn't translate it as is. (Japan has a form of poetry as short as 4 kanji, but translates to a full sentence).
Also, the aim of the translation is to translate, and for us is to make it as close to the source as possible while making it sound right to the foreign ears (Something "Hope, Aspiring Emperor" already accomplished). MarxMayhem (talkcontribs) 13:53, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
I'll concede that "Lord" is purely for consistency with the TCG. The rest of it stands, though. Also, you're confusing translation with localization. I know I usually call bull on people who insist on literal accuracy over euphony in translation, but the point here is to get the original Japanese name right, not make it sound good; making it sound good is Konami's job, and surprisingly, they've gotten much better at it in recent years.--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 15:52, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
So, what would fit more as a translation: Hope Emperor - Hope, Aspiration Emperor - Hope or Emperor of Aspiration - Hope? I vote for the latter. MadRest 16:21, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
But you tried and went for localization when you placed "Lord" over "Emperor" there, Ryusui. Regardless, since most names that are accompanied by titles were "<Name>, <title>", I'd pick "Hope, Emperor of Aspiration", though I still support my initial suggestion. MarxMayhem (talkcontribs) 03:47, September 10, 2011 (UTC)
Call him Emperor, Lord, whichever you like. But to translate 希望 as anything fancy would be to misrepresent the card name entirely. People are arguing against "Utopia" not because it's not the original name for the card, but because it's not the (demonstrably wrong) fan translated name for the card. It's one of my sticking points with the fanbase. Elegant Egotist was never Thousand Prism Mirrors; Pandemonium was never Lair of the Ten Thousand Demon Lords; etc.. One (intentionally!) erroneous source was responsible for a lot of headaches when people railed against Konami "butchering" names even though the purported "originals" were in fact nonsense - and sometimes, the official card name matched the real original name better. Utopia's a name change, but considering the only indisputable noun in his original Japanese name is the katakana ホープ ("Hope"), they were well within their rights to change it to something that didn't sound like a whiny boomerang-wielding tween from Final Fantasy XIII (note: I love the game, FYI, and the kid's not so bad after he finally gets over his ragecrush). What's Utopia but a hope for a better future, hmm?--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 11:09, September 10, 2011 (UTC)
Come to think of it, no, you can't call him "Emperor." That'd be the Monarchs; Mobius the Frost Monarch, for instance, is 氷帝メビウス, or "Ice Emperor Möbius." "Lord" is pretty much the only thing you can translate it as without redundancy with an established card or archetype.--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 03:36, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
Monarchs aren't an archetype though, so it wouldn't create support card confusion. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 04:14, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Furthermore, their "Emperor" are different. Hope's Emperor is Ou, while Monarch's Emperor is Tei. Even the Kanji is different. (talk) 11:00, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
Well, there's a surprise. Check out the new card "ZW - Unicorn Spear." Both parts of the name are written in katakana, so there's no debate on how they're intended to be read, but "Unicorn King Spear" is also written in kanji, and the kanji happen to be 一角獣槍. So yeah, apparently, they've given their blessing to translating 皇 as "king."-- (talk) 18:33, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
To stop you there, yes, it's true that they put King there BUT that card has two names: A Japanese one written in Kanji, and an English written in Katakana. You could say that we can use that as a translation for that one card, but the case of Utopia's Japanase name is different, as it did not get the same treatment as Unicorn King Spear (it was the first, if I recall correctly), so I don't we can't simply bend to that just because one card did it, and in the fashion it did. It'll be more like localization that way. Besides, we used "Emperor" because that's what the Kanji of this (Utopia) card says, and introducing that card will only enter in more confusion when there's no need to. MarxMayhem (talkcontribs) 13:30, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

XYZ Summoning Monsters[edit]

Can anyone help me? I got confused of the XYZ summoning of this and other cards. My question is, can xyz materials be more than the ones written on the cards? Like this card No. 39 Utopia says that you use 2 level 4 monsters to XYZ summon this card. But by the looks of the effect . Can anyone tell me? —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs)

Um, it's pretty straight forward, only, and i mean only, have 2 Level 4 monster to Xyz Summon this monster. Also, what do you mean that "it seems it can be more than just 2 level 4 monsters"; once you used up all your Xyz Materials, you're done. -- (talk) 02:59, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
I mean like the anime they use like 4 level 4 monsters to summon him several times.-- (talk) 02:26, October 8, 2011 (UTC)
Are you sure you're just mess that with "Number C39: Utopia Ray"? He's the one can suck up Original Utopia and other 2 remains Xyz's. --FredCat 02:28, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

No I saw it several times while watching de subtitle anime. I think that cant be possible. But a friend used 4 on a duel -- (talk) 00:09, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

Which episode did you saw that happened? And your buddy can't do it - it's exceed the original numbers of Material required. --FredCat 00:14, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

Idont remember on what episode. I see, so he cheat on me. Ha! As soon as I play my playable version of slyfer against him, he is gonna be sorry about that XD jajajaja. Thanks buddy.

Meaning of Number?[edit]

Has anyone managed to figure out what the significance of Utopia's Number is yet? I still cannot figure out why "39" is significant here. —This unsigned comment was made by (talkcontribs) 14:52, February 6, 2012‎ (UTC)

I also don't know, but an interesting thing to note is that if you read 39 separately in Japanese you read "san kyuu". "Sankyu" is the Japanese pronunciation for "Thank you". Maybe this has something to do with Yuma's gratitude to Astral or something like that :|. LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talkcontribs) 18:36, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
In Japanese, the number 3 can be read as "mi" and 9 as "ku"; together, it reads miku, 未来, the Japanese word for future. "未来" actually is pronounced mirai, but 来 by itself can be read as "ku". (未来 is also the name of Yuma's mother.) ZingerZheng (talkcontribs) 02:59, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Question about when it destroys itself[edit]

I am wandering about one particular part of Utopia's effect. If it's attacked while it has no XYZ materials, it simply says "Destroy this card." Would battle damage still occur? Or does a replay occur? Pikidalto (talkcontribs) 03:02, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Translation, quintuple redux[edit]

This post of Kevin Tewart from Pojo indicates that a translation for the Japanese name would be "No. 39 Hope, King of Wishes". The rest of his reasoning for the name change aside, this is as official a stance on what the right translation is that we could ever get. Therefore, I propose we change it to that name on here. I was going to just change it and link, but I knew that would cause issues. So, does anyone have an reasonable arguments for why we shouldn't do this? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 18:42, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree. What I gather from online dictionaries and what-not, 希望きぼう can mean "hope", "aspiration" and "wish" and おう can mean "king" and "emperor". The occupations "aspiration emperor" and "king of wishes" sound very alike, if not the same thing. If someone created a fictional being that somehow rules people's desires, it seems more likely to me that they'd come up with a name more along the lines of "King of Wishes" than "Aspiration Emperor". Of course, Konami considering it to be the translation is a more powerful argument. -- Deltaneos (talk) 20:48, August 18, 2012 (UTC)
We have to remember who gave us this translation, though. Keep it as it is now (this new translation), but put the old "Aspiration Emperor" as an alternate. --DARK 02:01, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
I total agreed with "DARK" here, after all, Japan episode did mention that name. --iFredCat 02:04, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
Um, no it didn't. Yes, there are multiple ways to translate certain words. The official explanation is that this is how it was intended to be translated. That's pretty cut-and-dried. In other words, "Aspiration Emperor, "Aspiring Emperor", "King of Hope" and all of those other translations were not how it was intended. That's not to say they are flat-out wrong. Also, the "altname" parameter is for other official English names not alternate translations. If we used it that way on every page, we'd have pages with seven alternate names. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 02:13, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

King of Wishes[edit]

I don't care if Kevin Tewart said this, but King is an inaccurate translation of 皇. This translates to emperor. There were even numerous examples of this on this wiki where it has been confused with king. I don't think that this guy actually impacts the OCG name, and see no reason why it would be King. MadRest 19:29, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

おう is most certainly 'king.' The furigana, in this case "ou", adds extra clarification to the meaning, and "ou" means king. You might not care that Kevin Tewart said it, but frankly, Kevin Tewart is a lot more of a valid source than you are.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 19:34, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, 皇 is emperor, and everything on this site with that kanji is translated as emperor. King uses the kanji 王. Ou is pronounced for both those kanji, not just king. And since emperor and king aren't interchangeable, I doubt that guy's credibility on Japanese names. MadRest 23:02, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
Remember, this is the same guy that said, "Xyz Materials are treated as being on the field, and that is the rule in the TCG, regardless of the OCG". I just get the impression he doesn't give a crap about the OCG, and he doesn't influence it any other way, but I guess we need the advice of Japanese speakers on this wiki for how the kanji is translated. MadRest 23:15, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
Are you purposefully ignoring the point about the furigana, or do you feel that you are right no matter what, regardless of the validity of others' points? We do not solely use kanji to translate names. The furigana add clarification to the kanji, and tell us their intended meaning. If we did not use them, then several monsters would have very different names. The furigana for "ou" is clear - it is meant to be read as "king", therefore, it is "king." I haven't seen "ou" be used interchangeably between "king" and "emperor" anywhere else besides this Wiki, and many of the cards that use that kanji and are translated as "emperor" use the furigana "こうてい" or "koutei." As for Kevin Tewart, his job is to translate and localize names. While I'm not a big fan of his, this is a separate issue from game mechanics. Once again, he is a more trusted source than you are.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 23:24, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
Just to add to this, most of the monsters that have おう in their names get localized as "Lord", like "Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder", "Thor, Lord of the Aesir" and "Loki, Lord of the Aesir", while monsters that have こうてい in their names get localized as "emperor", such as "The Great Emperor Penguin" and "Mausoleum of the Emperor" and a whole host of others. This suggests that Konami have a naming pattern, and recognize こうてい to be "emperor", but おう to have a different meaning.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 23:32, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
Didn't Astral mention that Hope's name is redundant in the random comments at the end of one of the episodes, or was that for another card? (i.e. the translation with two mentions of the word Hope would then be valid) -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:36, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't matter how they are localized; Hamon and Thor have the same kanji and are pronounced as ou. The pattern of the TCG names has no influence on this. Furthermore, I don't see how the furigana plays into this. Things like tennou (the Emperor of Japan) are pronounced with an ou, and use the same kanji as this card. The kanji 皇 is pronounced as ou, usually, if it goes after another word. If not, at the beginning of the word, it's pronounced as kou. Again, I don't see how the furigana has anything to do with this. Kaiou (Atlanteans) are translated as Sea Emperor, are pronounced as ou, and they mean emperor, not king. Therefore, this guy doesn't influence the OCG in any way, and is a less valid source than you might think for anything regarding the OCG. I doubt that this guy, who according to this wiki, "Kevin Tewart is Konami's current U.S. head of development for the Yu-Gi-Oh! Trading Card Game. He makes product announcements and, occasionally, ruling statements regarding the TCG", has anything to do with how cards are named, and I highly doubt he specifically talked to official OCG sources to give a translation for this card. Bottom line, the kanji means emperor, and can be pronounced as koutei, kou, and ou, not just one of them. MadRest 01:07, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
Furigana is important. Its used in conjunction with kanji in order to aid with its pronounciation. おう is part of Hope's name. 皇 on its own has the pronounciation of 'ou', which is used as either emperor or king. The furigana on Hope's name anchors down the meaning to its intended translation, in this case king. Yamiwheeler is right, Kanji isn't soley used to translate names and you are completely ignoring the furigana, and Konami has professional translators to help translate the cards and while Kevin Tewart has no impact on OCG names (which I might add is an irrelevant point), he does know how to translate them, so they are a very valid source of information and know more japanese than any of us, especially you. Neos01 (talkcontribs) 12:00, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
You're just making assumptions that the furigana offers a different translation this time. This is not the case. You yourself said ou is used for both emperor and king. However, the current kanji is used for emperor. Therefore, the ratio is 2:1 of it being emperor, since emperor fits with the kanji and furigana, and king fits only with ou, but not with the kanji. And no, the current kanji is ONLY used for emperor, like with a dozen other cards on this wiki. I fail to see any reason why it was changed to king, except that some guy who has no influence on the OCG said so. And how do you know exactly that he knows Japanese? His page doesn't mention anything on him translating card names. He just makes announcements, mostly on rulings. Again, I'd like to hear the opinion of some Japanese speakers on whether or not the kanji can be used for king. The furigana plays no part in this since it's used for both emperor and king. MadRest 14:26, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
Once again, you are completely ignoring the furigana. Its there to anchor down the meaning to king. Kanji is not the only thing that is used to translate names. And no, I am not making assumptions. The furigana is used to help show what the name is intended to be. Ou means either emperor or king, the furigana in Hope's name anchors the name down to king, what part of that didn't you understand? And I never said that Kevin Tewart knows Japanese, I said he has professional translators to help translate the cards, while you're most likely using google translate, which I might add, is quite a poor translator when it comes to asian languages, but if you're so insistant on using it, if you translate the kana ナンバーズ39 きぼうおう, it comes out as Hope (which can also be translated into wish) King Number 39. Neos01 (talkcontribs) 16:10, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Resetting Indent

Note that おう is actually a rather unusual reading of the kanji 皇, which is usually こう or のう (albeit the latter only after an ん). And while it's true that the kanji does connote "emperor," it doesn't necessarily mean it - 教皇 (lit. "doctrine emperor") means "the Pope"!

With this in mind, arguing that the 皇 in 希望皇ホープ can only mean "emperor" is ridiculous, especially since we have a much less ambiguous "emperor" kanji already: 帝 (never mind that the TCG has been rather consistent about rendering it as "Monarch"). Certainly it's hard to imagine that "divine flames" need an "emperor," or "descending lightning" for that matter.

Personally, if I had my way, I'd say his Japanese name is "Hope, Lord of Hope." But nobody liked that the last time, so. >_>--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 18:08, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth, depending on how you look at it, there may have been at least one instance where "皇" was officially translated as "king" in Yu-Gi-Oh! outside of the English TCG. "Zexal Weapon - Unicorn King Spear" (ZWゼアル・ウェポン一角獣皇槍ユニコーン・キング・スピア) gives the katakana for "king" as furigana for "皇". I know furigana doesn't always give the same meaning as the base text. -- Deltaneos (talk) 18:45, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

The problem is is that Master D thinks that 皇 means emperor AND ONLY emperor, while everyone else is telling him otherwise. He also is denying this despite the fact that Kevin Tewart, who has professional translators to translate the cards; while Master D is most likely only using google translate (which I have already mentioned that it is quite poor in translating Asian languages; based on my experience), said that 'King of Wishes' is the intended translation. Neos01 (talkcontribs) 19:08, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Why is that furigana so unusual exactly? Atlanteans use it, and it isn't translated as king. I don't even see why you brought up the furigana. Other cards that use it are translated as emperor, and this kanji means emperor; it doesn't mean king. Any word related to king usually has this kanji: 王. Any word related to emperor uses this: 皇. As for Unicorn, it was mentioned on the talk page that the kanji means emperor, but the furigana gives a different translation. So if the kanji means emperor, and there are other cards on this wiki that use the same kanji and furigana as this card (Atlanteans), I don't see how anyone can come up with king. Anything relating to imperial things has this kanji. While anything relating to king has 王. MadRest 19:22, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
So let me see if I have this straight. Two official Konami sources - the card ZW - Unicorn Spear and Kevin Tewart - agree on translating 皇 in two specific contexts as "King." One, let me remind you, is the original Japanese card name. And you still insist that 皇 can never mean anything but "emperor"?--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 02:09, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
He is not an official source on the OCG. He has no impact on how the name is translated. Yes, there is 1 card that translates it that way, but as I said, the Atlanteans, which are way more cards, translate it differently. Even other people said that the furigana gives a different meaning on purpose. However, since the kana here isn't transliterated in English, like with Unicorn, it plays no part in this. Ou is used for both emperor and king. I have yet to find any mention of that kanji used for king. All I get trough searching is the previous kanji I mentioned. Also, you yourself said that it means emperor, but doesn't necessarily connote it. You never said that it can be used for king, and since I can't find any source where it's used for king, it obviously isn't. Other translated cards that have the same furigana are translated as emperor. So, how can you tell me that the only reason you think it is king isn't because an unofficial source of the OCG said so? MadRest 10:27, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Where's your proof that Kevin Tewart is not involved in the process of translating names, like you're claiming? Is it only because the Wiki doesn't say so? You have no idea what his roles are. What we do know, however, is that he is an official Konami source telling us the name of the card. OFFICIAL. KONAMI. SOURCE. If you don't like that, tough. Why do you always have to turn every single discussion into a tedious ordeal, haven't you been proven wrong enough times?--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 10:45, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
What do previous discussions have to do about this? As much as it contradicts your opinion, he is not an official source of the OCG. I won't mind if he gives a translation for an OCG name, however I will mind if he gives a wrong one. King is obviously wrong, and everyone is in denial just because he said so. Are you telling me that you don't care what the kanji, furigana, and other cards' translated names point to?! If it's wrong, it's wrong. This is not the same as an OCG source giving a wrong name. We don't have to follow what he says because he is not an official OCG source. This is from a TCG source with previously wrong names such as: Fushioh Richie, Flame Cerebrus, and Crashbug Road. MadRest 11:44, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, a history of 3 wrong names and thousands of accurate ones. By that logic, you're always wrong because you've been wrong about the last 3 discussions. His job is to translate and localize names, therefore, if he gives a translation of something, we should take it to be the official translation. There is no evidence to suggest that this kanji can only mean emperor, when it has previously also been translated as "Lord." On this Wiki, you go around changing translated names at your own discretion and then try to argue that "every other card" on this Wiki is translated that way - OF COURSE it is, you changed the translations! The fact is that, once again, the majority of people, including Japanese speakers that you yourself wanted the opinion of, disagree with you. Tough luck.--YamiWheeler (talkcontribs) 11:57, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Master D, please give it a rest. Everyone here disagrees with you, so obviously you're wrong on this account. Also, about those names you just mentioned, don't forget that Konami can change the names in the TCG to what they want. Kevin Tewart knows that Utopia is not the real translation, he changed it to Utopia because he thought Hope was a dumb name. He most likely thought that crashbug road, fushioh richie are better names than their japanese names. Oh and by the way, Flame cerberus is an accurate translation of the card, its just that it was mispelled in the TCG. Neos01 (talkcontribs) 12:13, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
You seem to do this a lot. That kanji was never translated as Lord. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE OCG NAMES. Not the TCG, the OCG. Get it through your head! That kanji was always translated as emperor in the trans parameter, not the TCG. Why should we take it to be the official translation? As I said, he is not an OCG source, so we don't take anything he says to be influential to the OCG. Please make your argument about why would you translate this kanji as king, when every other instance of it has it translated as emperor! This guy is not a source, and stop using him in your arguments. And his job isn't that. His job is to make announcements, so his knowledge of Japanese is dubious at best. MadRest 12:24, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
I suggest we ask the guys at DuelistGroundz whether this kanji can be translated as king. Dinoguy said we use them for most of our translations. If they say it can be translated as king, I will buy it. If it isn't, then we'll change it to emperor. MadRest 12:28, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
It was one of them that linked me to Tewart's post. I asked them if they could agree on what this should be translated as. No one used Tewart's name, but at least three people agreed that it is a valid translation after Tewart's use of it was mentioned. Here. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 14:17, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

Resetting Indent (Again)

In Yu-Gi-Oh!, it doesn't matter what Google Translate or your dictionaries tell you: what Konami says goes. The ZW - cards are all good examples: apart from the aforementioned Unicorn King Spear (which is a straight example in the TCG), not a single one is a direct translation of its kanji:

And yet with some fanciful interpretation, we can see how the names given in katakana relate to the kanji. That's the thing you're missing here - interpretation. You certainly won't find a dictionary that gives 聖刻 as "hieroglyphic" even though it's a literal Japanese rendering of the Greek word (Google Translate doesn't, for one!) For a more dramatic example, Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon's kanji name differs from Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon by a single prefix, as expected, but the kanji 超 does not mean "new" or "neo" or anything remotely like that - the obvious translation is "super." And yet the card is not "Super Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon"; it's "Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon," right there in katakana.

In the end, the only defense your argument has is that we as yet have no evidence that the translation "King of Wishes" was decided on by Konami Japan and Kevin Tewart was just telling us what his bosses handed down to him. Whatever the case, it's Konami's official stance, and seeing how they have a history of playing fast and loose with the literal meaning of kanji, there's precedent. Even I'll confess that, given no further context, I would translate 皇 as "emperor" simply because that's what it says in my dictionary, but consistency and agreement with official sources are vastly more important than pretensions of "accuracy" (which it beats out "Aspiring Emperor" on by a fair margin regardless)--Ryusui (talkcontribs) 17:34, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

K, but I don't use Google Translate. MadRest 21:46, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Would you care to tell us what it is you use then? You've developed something of a reputation as someone who uses online translators. If that's not the case, what is your source? Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 23:43, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Tangorin... MadRest 16:04, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

The order of the name should be "No. 39: Hope, King of Wishes", based on this discussion, right? Here and on other pages, it keeps getting changed to "No. 39: King of Wishes, Hope", under the rational that at least one other page does it that way. Yes, we should use a consistent name on all pages, but there's little sense in arbitrarily picking one of the pages and saying all other pages should follow that one. -- Deltaneos (talk) 19:23, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

"Number 39" redirects - series/disambiguation page?[edit]

The latest edit seems to have accidentally removed a redirect when trying to add one, possibly due to the comma? Regardless though, at the point where we have 3 different redirects for this one intent, maybe we should consider "Number 39" a series, or at least make a disambiguation page. AlphaKretin (talkcontribs) 07:39, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

I'd rather not add another archetype/series page for this, but I think making "Number 39" a disambiguation is a good idea. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:17, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Number 3: Utopia[edit]

Quoting this card's trivia page: The artwork book of Kazuki Takahashi released on December 2011 revealed that this card originally had the number "3" instead of "39", as the artwork shows "03" on Utopia's shoulder. I know 10 years have passed since that, but is there any source on the internet that still has a screenshot or a scan of that original artwork? I think it'd be cool to add. Both in the gallery and trivia pages NumbersHunter02 (talkcontribs) 10:59, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Here's a link to the original edit that made the claim.
And looks like it's true. Here's a scan of the page in question. -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:05, 1 May 2021 (UTC)