User talk:Dinoguy1000/Archive/2012/12

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Subobject bugs

I've been messing around with the #subobjects a bit. It seems their main problem is a weird cache issue. Blue-Eyes White Dragon has eight subobjects. But only four of them are ever applied at a time. Each time the page is edited, it switches between each quadruplet. If you refresh Structure Deck: Kaiba and Legend of Blue Eyes White Dragon between null edits, you'll see them lose and gain entries.

There's also a whitespace issue, where we have to put stuff right up against equals signs to stop values having a space at the beginning. -- Deltaneos (talk) 15:27, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Although that whitespace bug seems to be a result of multiple permissible spaces building up.

{{Card table set/core
| set_number =[space]{{ #if: {{r|{{{2}}}}} ||[space]{{{1|}}} }}

{{ #subobject: ...
| Set number =[space]{{{set_number|}}}

-- Deltaneos (talk) 15:34, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Does the number of subobjects that get applied depend on the total number set, or does it seem to max out at four regardless of the total?
Ugh, more whitespace shenanigans. >_>
We could always go the multiple properties route at first here, and later switch to subobjects if these problems get fixed or a workaround is found/shown to us. This would also let us experiment directly with subobjects without having to worry too much about messing up existing queries and whatnot. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:28, December 2, 2012 (UTC)
From a sample size of three, also including "Tri-Horned Dragon" with four and "Dark Magician" with five, it's always maxed out at four.
I think the Property:Set information is a better back up to the subobjects. That's the one that puts all the set information in one property and then uses string functions to extract the parts it needs. It can handle matching up rarity and number for cards with the same name from the same set, with different numbers and rarities; the two "Cyber Dragon" prints in Ra Yellow Mega-Pack and it doesn't need a few hundred properties. -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:06, December 2, 2012 (UTC)
That is all kinds of retarded. =/
I was actually referring to storing the info for the various media; I took it as implicit that we'd be using Property:Set information for the sets if we couldn't get the subobjects to work out right. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:16, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

"Treasure Cards"

Should the series be renamed to "Treasure Cards" instead of "Treasure Card"? --UltimateKuriboh (talkcontribs) 20:15, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't have much of an opinion; you might want to instead ask Ryusui, considering it sounds like a matter of translation. I do have to say, though, that my understanding of Japanese is that nouns are pluralized by context, as opposed to any sort of indication in the direct usage of the noun (such as adding a pluralizing suffix to most nouns in English). In addition, we generally use the singular form of terms and names for page names, so without a good translation-related argument or similar, we'd stick with the singular here, too. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:23, December 2, 2012 (UTC)


I see the difficulty in getting the Gallery SMW-ified. By rights, the input I'm using should be working... Unless I'm missing something.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 13:42, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

I was playing around quite a while ago with templateifying the <gallery/> tag, but never did much and don't remember if I ever actually got it working; the tack I was taking involved the {{#tag:}} parser function (and possibly a "/row"-like template for each individual image, I don't remember for sure). IIRC, though, I did come to the conclusion that it would probably be easiest to just use a template for the image descriptions, and have everything else done by hand. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 17:33, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Good Ole' Booster Articles

Now with some bunch of latest packs have their fancy, easily to read details - so why not we do the same with some bunch of ole' packs, like LOB and Power of the Duelists, as well as the one that "Elemental HERO Air Neos" was featuring on? If you said yes, I would go ahead and flipping it upside-down before watch the paint dry. --iFredCat 13:25, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's just because it takes time to reorganize everything into the new format. Some users have taken the initiative, but there are a lot of pages to do. It's too much of a bother for me, so I haven't jumped in. --Golden Key (talkcontribs) 13:28, December 4, 2012 (UTC)
I can admit myself to clean that up. If that's come to grammar, I would just leave them alone and just going on with what my business do. --iFredCat 13:31, December 4, 2012 (UTC)
LOB and a lot of the other really old boosters were actually converted by Deltaneos, as some of the first set pages to receive the treatment. I would be converting set pages myself, but it requires a decent amount more work than simply replacing the table with an infobox, including prose work, which isn't something I'm 100% comfortable with. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:28, December 4, 2012 (UTC)


Starter Deck 2013. the pp-upcoming set template does not auto protect. thanks -Lpoi (talkcontribs) 04:39, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

Phantom spacing

{{Card table|header1=something}} currently gives a massive amount of phantom spacing. If you have time, would you be able to figure out what's causing it? -- Deltaneos (talk) 21:46, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Looks like I got it. It was also happening for "header2", etc. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:15, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
Ah, I see. That's great. Thank you. -- Deltaneos (talk) 22:41, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

DM1 password/cheat menu

If I remember well, you have to press UP DOWN B DOWN DOWN UP B B on the title screen and nothing else (if you accidentally pressed a button at the title screen, you have to go to a submenu, then go back to the title screen). Once again, I explain how to get the password screen by memory, after pressing UP DOWN B DOWN DOWN UP B B, Yugi will ask you to enter a password. Here i tried one but nothing happen (my rom coul have been corrupted from the beginning).
I hope it will work for you. If the passwords don't work for you too, I'll try again on my side.
{{SUBST:SCaps|Yamimillenium}} - {{SUBST:SCaps|Me Contacter}} 10:51, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Followed Pages

So, since a while ago there are some pages I edit but later can't remove from the Watched Pages list. It's not a big problem, but they are increasing and it's starting to bother me. *__* There are currently 9 pages that I keep removing from the list and they keep appearing back. :/ Do you have any idea why? If not, don't worry, as I said, it's not a big problem. Just to check.
By the way, do you know if Rank 24 of ZEXAL was already released in SJ Alpha? Last month's chapter didn't list the exact day it'd be released. :/ LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talkcontribs) 20:53, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Did you try removing it via Special:EditWatchlist/raw? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 21:01, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
I had pages like that from way back when some of the card info namespaces were introduced; I ended up having to fix it by blanking my entire watchlist, removing the offending titles from the copy I'd made first, and re-adding the modified list (all via Special:EditWatchlist/raw, BTW).
Unfortunately, I'm more than a month behind on WSJA, so I actually know less than you. If the pattern has been holding, though, there should be one chapter in every fourth issue (though I'm not sure how that would work for months with five Mondays, like this month). You should be able to see if ZEXAL was in the most recent issue just by looking through the series featured in the slider on, though. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 21:31, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, that link worked, thanks a lot.
...I didn't think on that. xD Yeah, that's the most effective way to know it, thanks. ^^ LegendaryAsariUgetsu (talkcontribs) 23:25, December 15, 2012 (UTC)


Hey. I'm sure you've kept an eye on edits, just making you aware that I've added a dm1number option to CT2 (as it doesn't really impact the space the template takes up), if DM2 also has fixed card numbers, it would be easy to add them for DM2, as well.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 00:27, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, all the games in the Duel Monsters series use card numbers. The DM1 card list is reused card-for-card in DM2, and I suspect the same is done with DM2's card list in DM3, and so on, though I haven't looked yet.
One thing I've been wondering is if it would be worth uploading screens of the actual card list from DM1 (especially since it would be 73 images with each image listing 5 cards), since the list is the only place the card numbers actually appear associated with card names in-game.
On a semi-related note, being apparently the first person ever to look at making Game Genie-style cheats for a game is pretty interesting, to say the least. =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:37, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
I have no objection to screens showing the card list, we can just plonk that in it's own gallery. Also, I'm wondering if it's a good idea to split off the Japanese Game names from the associated English game names; DM3, IIRC, was re-released as DDS in the Western World.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 00:43, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
Cool, I'll get to work uploading those after I figure out a reasonable naming scheme.
That's something else I've been debating; I think it comes down to whether there's any appreciable non-localization-related differences between the two versions (gameplay/storyline differences, changes to card stats or the card list, etc.). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:51, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
I'm leaning towards the renaming, due to the clear name and product art differences, but I'm open for a debate on that.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 01:21, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
This is the first time I've ever really looked at these old games, so I don't have much of an opinion to offer (yet, perhaps). =)
All the card list images are uploaded; see Category:Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters (video game) card list images. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:25, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
Also, one more thing; I've been looking at the unofficial card names we have in CT2. To save space, I'm wondering if it would be better to move them to the bottom, similar to statuses, etc. That way, they'd still be on the page, but it wouldn't be where we'd normally put "official" names. Obviously, we'd have to add conditional arguments to put French, etc names down the bottom when we don't have a frame of references (Such as the old Vol. Japanese cards).--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 01:35, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
That's certainly an idea, though personally I'm not too interested in working on developing CT2 much more at this point, considering we're working to replace it. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:41, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
Nothing wrong with keeping ideas for the replacement in there. The *other* option, that you may find more appealing, is to keep the SMW values only, and use the Card Names namespace to "fetch" the name from the main article, and present it in greater detail.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 01:55, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
I'm not really sure what additional detail we could offer on the Card Names pages that couldn't be put directly on the card articles themselves, particularly after the redesign starts being deployed, though. The redesign will have provisions for showing a card's official name in every medium, and in every language each medium has been released in, plus a section devoted to unofficial translations that goes into a bit more detail (including, as needed, romanizations, translations, and interwiki links to other-language YGO wikis). I'm not necessarily against the idea, I've just never understood the point to the Card Names namespace that makes it better than either putting the info directly on the card article or on the card's Trivia page. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:05, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
It was more of a wish at the time to reduce load on the card article itself; if the redesign takes care of that, fine with me. This, however, you may be interested in. The idea of not being able to search by set is highly annoying, and this would at least go some way to solving that, whilst not adding clutter to CT2.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 02:33, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
That's something I've thought about for a very long time, and Delt and I are also working on it for the redesign; we think we've got it figured out so that we won't need even one property per set - {{Card table set}} and Property:Set information *should* allow us to do whatever we need. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 02:57, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
We have considered stuff similar to what's done in User:TwoTailedFox/Set Lookup before, but it has problems when the same card has different groups of information in the same set. e.g. The Legendary Collection 2 "Cyber Dragon" has two different set numbers, each with a different rarity. "Cyber Dragon" will have two values for "LCGX EN Set Number" and two for "APO1 EN Rarity Page" with no way of telling which corresponds to which.
What's currently in {{Card table set}} and Property:Set information is our second priority. The ideal solution would be to use SMW subobjects, but that part of SMW is too buggy at the moment. Both solutions group together the four properties for individual prints; set, number, rarity and language, and don't require us to create multiple new properties every time a new set is released.
-- Deltaneos (talk) 20:45, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
The issue might be addressed with the new 1.8 SMW version, as that's been coded for both 1.19 and 1.20 MW compatibility.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 22:36, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
Very nice pictures. Can I ask, did you find any evidence of cards called "Super Lair" or "Toon Exodia?" These names turn up on several cheat sites as "secret characters" of a sort for this game, and we've been puzzled about what's up with them for a while. Rod (talkcontribs) 01:30, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
Nope, the only secret cards I found any evidence of are number 351 through 365, and I just confirmed that if you have any one of these cards, all three pages' worth of list shows up on the in-game card list, so there's no room for another two secret cards. I've also confirmed that there's no card number 0; if you use a Game Genie-style cheat to give yourself some of that card, it just "unlocks" the entire card list, with all their amounts set to 0. However, while I was playing around trying to figure out how the cheats worked last night, I managed to add non-existent cards to my deck, including one with a card number in the 700s and one in the 800s, but both of these displayed garbage when you viewed them (but considering I was able to do that, I may be able to add e.g. card number 366 to my deck, just to see what it looks like). ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 01:38, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Duel summary template

Following from User talk:Dinoguy1000/Archive/2012/04#ins and Duel summaries, I thought the whole subtemplate system was a messy, so I changed {{Duel summary}} to allow you to display ten turns at a time, after which you'd use another {{Duel summary}} and use {{{start}}} and {{{end}}} to say when to insert the the <dl> and </dl> tags. But now I don't think it's going to be obvious what to do with the start and end tags, particularly when editing a page to add more turns.

I think the longest Duel to date is 41 turns. Is that too much parameters for one template? We could make it slightly lighter on servers if we nested the ifs, so that #if: {{{turnX+1|}}} doesn't get checked unless #if: {{{turnX|}}} is true. Although that would make the template code kinda messy. -- Deltaneos (talk) 00:13, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

This is kind of why I prefer subtemplates for stuff like this: having an explicit opening and closing template makes it obvious how to add new entries, and having a one-entry subtemplate that gets called for each entry means we don't have to worry about the template supporting X entries, which also helps out on the server side, since each usage can use exactly the number of entry subtemplates it needs.
To answer your questions, though, I would say that, yes, 41 entries would be way too many for this template. Most duels are over after only a dozen or so turns, if that, so that would be a huge amount of extra weight for most pages. And nesting the #ifs to reduce the overall weight also has issues, even besides the code messiness that would result; we wouldn't be able to support more than about 20 turns that way due to the template expansion limit. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 00:46, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
Will your latest version of the template work for Duels with more than 20 turns, since the transclusions for all the turns except the first and last don't use "start" or "end"?
One way of ensuring "start" and "end" get used properly, would be if we used "start" to input the "Player 1 VS Player 2" title and the "Continued from previous episode/chapter" and "end" to input the result and the "Continued next episode/chapter". Although neither of those "start" uses are used on the Duel articles.
For your opening and closing template suggestion, should we have {{Duel start}} containing the <dl>, followed by multiple instances of {{Duel summary}} capped at 10 turns each, followed by {{Duel end}} containing the </dl>? -- Deltaneos (talk) 11:08, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
Ooh, no, I hadn't actually given that any thought. To make 21+-turn Duels work again, we'd either have to introduce a third "mid" parameter (or similar), or revert my change (which would then require <10-turn Duels to again use "start" and "end").
I was thinking about how we might support the "Continued..." text, but not to any significant degree.
I was thinking either {{Duel summary/start}} or {{Duel summary|start}}, leaning towards the subtemplate approach. Either way, we could have the shorter titles redirect to the "proper", full form. And if we go this way, I would most prefer {{Duel summary}} itself to cover just a single turn; this, I think, gives us the greatest amount of flexibility over the long term. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 11:31, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
I see Wikipedia has a very similar series of templates: wikipedia:Template:Gloss. (If you happen to be logged into Wikipedia, could you please noinclude the content of that template. The indented documentation...) The main difference is the dt and the dd have separate templates. Do you think we should make this similar to that? -- Deltaneos (talk) 17:26, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
That's the general idea I was getting at, yes, though I didn't go so far as to propose generic utility templates. We definitely could do something like that, though, if you want, and then just have {{Duel summary}} as a wrapper template or something. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 22:04, December 22, 2012 (UTC)


Well, you always left this article longer than Goldy did as well as Delta. So the reason why I went and headbutt on Goldy's instead of your because you both are different users. So you're welcome to archiving this article up. :-) --iFredCat 17:57, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

I know, I'm long overdue for another archiving blitz. =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 18:32, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Happy Holiday

Have a happy holiday! --iFredCat 23:13, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Fred, and the same to you! =D ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 10:12, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

Name of the game

I'd have to look to figure out which chapter, but I recall the text "Magic & Wizards" appearing in plain English in the Japanese version of an early GX chapter. I'm not sure if you need the info for the lead of the Duel Monsters article or not though. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 19:33, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

It couldn't hurt. Maybe a screenshot would work too, but I'm not sure; probably be better to ask Delt that one. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 19:35, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Card replacements table

I was looking around for a table that work the Card replacements in the dub article. I found one that suits it at Deck Master ability. From what I know of wikicode, the code looks very archaic and strikes me as something we either already have a replacement for or should have a replacement for. I've never dealt much with tables, so I'm not quite sure. Take a look when have time. Thanks, Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 06:21, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that table's style is ancient. I can probably knock something together for the card replacements article if you give me a brief description of how you'd like it to look (mostly I'm just looking for what information should be included and how you think it should be presented); then you (and the other editors contributing to that article) can adjust it as needed. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 08:10, December 28, 2012 (UTC)
User:Cheesedude/Sandbox should tell you what you need to know, for now. I'm still discussing the format with Scarecrow, but we'd like to use a table if possible. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 08:25, December 28, 2012 (UTC)
I've made some formatting changes to bring the table up to current practices. To my surprise, we don't have any classes in MediaWiki:Common.css that'll add the red background to the header cells for that table (the coloring is only added to cells that span more than one column), so I just left that out, but if you think the table works better with it, you can re-add the removed CSS. ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 08:32, December 28, 2012 (UTC)
Nah, the red was unnecessary. The color is irrelevant to me, the red was remnant of the fact that that's what was used at Deck Master ability. Alright, thanks. What you've done has cleared up the code for me to the point that I should be able to modify the table now without asking you again. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:11, December 28, 2012 (UTC)
And I've spoken to soon. I have a feeling I could do this with "rowspan" or whatever, but I need another cell to span the whole table top so we can insert the episode number. It didn't occur to me that we'd need that earlier. Cheesedude (talkcontribs) 17:17, December 28, 2012 (UTC)
I've added it via a table caption; let me know if you want it tweaked any. =) ディノ千?!? · ☎ Dinoguy1000 08:56, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

#ask me!

I am curious of how you making it restrict to Level 5 or more in the "#ask" box? I didn't know how to put them in... is that like this: [[Level::5<]]? --iFredCat 00:24, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:26, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
Ok, thank you, Falzar, for your swiftly respond. I will keep that in my mind. --iFredCat 00:35, December 30, 2012 (UTC)