Difference between revisions of "Forum:List of cards to side in against common decks"

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{| border="1" align=center cellspacing="0" class="box colored type-character "
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{| border="1" style="margin:auto;" cellspacing="0" class="box colored type-character "
 
|-
 
|-
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! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" {{!}} Key:
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! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" | Key:
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{{!}}-
 
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{{!}}<center> > </center>
 
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{{!}}
 
−
 Can potentially cripple the deck<br>
 
−
{{!}}-
 
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{{!}}<center><nowiki> + </nowiki></center>
 
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{{!}}
 
−
 Can cripple, but that deck contains cards (or a strategy) to save themself <br>
 
−
{{!}}-
 
−
{{!}}<center><nowiki> - </nowiki></center>
 
−
{{!}}
 
−
 Can work against<br>
 
−
|}
 
−
 
 
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{| {| class="wikitable"
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="font-size: 150%;" colspan=2 class="mainheader" |[[Metagame|List of cards to side in to cripple Meta decks]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="font-size: 110%;" align="center" |Card Name
 
−
! style="font-size: 110%;" align="center" |Reason
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Infernity]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Consecrated Light]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | Restricts basically every monster in this deck.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]]
 
−
| The level 4 beatstick in this deck is 1800 ATK, it can't beat 1900 ATK. Stops Infernity Archfiend search. Can negate 1 Special Summon.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[King Tiger Wanghu]]
 
−
| Stops almost all their monsters. Works even better when used with [[Burden of the Mighty]], that way, it can even stop Archfiend and [[Dark Grepher]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Prohibition]]
 
−
| Call [[Infernity Launcher|Launcher]] or [[Infernity Archfiend|Archfiend]] to hinder their general tactics.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Swallow Flip]]
 
−
| Stops [[Infernity Archfiend]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Discord]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on Synchro Summons to OTK or gain field advantage.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Grave of the Super Ancient Organism]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Dark Bribe]]
 
−
| Negate's an S/T Effect, also makes them Draw 1 card so they won't be Handless.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Dust Tornado]]
 
−
| "Destroy [[Infernity Launcher|Launcher]] as soon as it's activated, make your opponent a very sad person."
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Effect Veiler]]
 
−
| Stops the [[Infernity Archfiend|Archfiend]]-[[Infernity Launcher|Launcher]] Loop.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Karma Cut]]
 
−
| rowspan="3" | Removes copies of cards to hinder their Synchro Summon ability.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[D.D. Crow]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Big Burn]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Summon Limit]]
 
−
| Greatly hinders their general tactics.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Book of Eclipse]]
 
−
| Flips monsters face-down so they can't Synchro Summon yet, at End Phase it makes them Draw to make them not Handless.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Blackwing]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Consecrated Light]]
 
−
| Restricts basically every monster in this deck, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Book of Moon]], [[Smashing Ground]], [[Fissure]], [[Lightning Vortex]], [[Icarus Attack]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]]
 
−
| Restricts basically every monster in this deck, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Icarus Attack]], or they can just play by Swarm and Synchro without using Effects. It also doesn't stop [[Kalut]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, stops Kalut, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Icarus Attack]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, stops Kalut, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Book of Moon]], [[Smashing Ground]], [[Fissure]], [[Lightning Vortex]], [[Icarus Attack]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Trap Hole]]
 
−
| Screws with their [[Black Whirlwind]] xD
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Blackwing - Sirocco the Dawn]]
 
−
| Note how you can use the Opponent's Blackwings to power up your own Sirroco.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Gladiator Beasts]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Corridor of Agony]]
 
−
| It may seem like it would Cripple the deck, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Dust Tornado]]. It also doesn't stop the Extra Deck monsters like [[Gyzarus]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Skill Drain]]
 
−
| It may seem like it would Cripple the deck, however it can be bypassed by the [[Book of Moon]] combo.
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[G.B. Hunter]]
 
−
| It may seem like it would Cripple the deck, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Book of Moon]] and [[Smashing Ground]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Swallow Flip]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | Stops almost every Monster in this deck.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Magnificent Dignity]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
−
| - [[Mirror of Oaths]]
+
|<center>&nbsp;>&nbsp;</center>
−
| It doesn't negate the Effect, but it does destroy the monster, and you draw 1 card so you don't lose card advantage.
+
| &nbsp;Can potentially cripple the deck continuously. &nbsp;
 
|-
 
|-
−
| - [[Legendary Jujitsu Master]]
+
|&nbsp;+&nbsp;
−
| Stops the GB from tagging out. Top decks the monster.
+
| &nbsp;Can cripple, but that deck contains cards (or a strategy) to save itself. &nbsp;
 
|-
 
|-
−
| - [[D.D. Warrior Lady]]
+
|&nbsp;-&nbsp;
−
| When attacked, she removes the monster that attacked. GBs generally run 1 [[Equeste]], [[Bestiari]], etc. and without that 1 monster, the deck would be hindered to a certain extent.
+
| &nbsp;Can work against. &nbsp;
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Prohibition]]
 
−
| Call [[Bestiari]] and they won't be able to destroy S/T cards at all since it stops both [[Bestiari]] and [[Gyzarus]], however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Dust Tornado]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Jowls of Dark Demise]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | Let the Opponent attack into this monster, Triggering it's Effect. Take control of the GB so they can't 'Tag-out'. This works even better if you have a GB in your own deck. That way, you can return your Opponent's GB that attacked to their deck to Summon your GB from your Deck. This strategy is used in a Mirror Match, but it works as a side strategy like this as well.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Rafflesia Seduction]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Flamvell]] [[Cat Synchro]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Rivalry of Warlords]]
 
−
| This deck uses a Variety of Types, so this card would hinder the deck.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Discord]]
 
−
|  This deck focuses heavily on Synchro Summons to OTK or gain field advantage.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Magnificent Dignity]]
 
−
|  Stops many monsters in this deck, including [[Flamvell Firedog]], [[Super-Nimble Mega Hamster]], [[X-Saber Airbellum]], [[Gravekeeper's Spy]], [[Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter]], [[Sangan]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[X-Saber]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Ancient Forest]]
 
−
| This deck focuses on Battle, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Saber Slash]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Saber Slash]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Prohibition]]
 
−
| Call [[XX-Saber Faultroll]] to hinders their general tactics.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Gottoms' Emergency Call]]
 
−
| Note how you can Special Summon from either player's Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Lightsworn]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]]
 
−
| Restricts basically every monster in this deck, however it doesn't stop [[Honest]]'s main effect.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[D.D. Crow]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Big Burn]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Soul Release]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Crevice Into the Different Dimension]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Plants]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Zombie World]]
 
−
| Restricts basically every monster in this deck, it also prevents the use of cards S/T like [[Wall of Thorns]], [[Pollinosis]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, however there aren't too many effects that Target the Graveyard. Gigaplant does not Target.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Crevice Into the Different Dimension]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, especially on whichever plant the deck is based upon. Common ones include [[Gigaplant]], [[Dandylion]], [[Lonefire Blossom]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[D.D. Crow]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Big Burn]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Plants#Quickdraw Plants|Quickdraw Plants]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[King Tiger Wanghu]]
 
−
| This deck focuses on Summoning lots of weaklings and using them to Synchro Summon for a 'Big Guy'. This card prevents that from happening. Kills cards like [[Quickdraw Synchron]], [[Dandylion]] & [[Fluff Token]]s, [[Lonefire Blossom]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
| Unlink the regular Plant deck. This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons that don't occur in the Damage Step.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Zombie World]]
 
−
| Restricts a lot of the monsters in this deck.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Crevice Into the Different Dimension]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, especially on whichever plant the deck is based upon. Common ones include [[Gigaplant]], [[Dandylion]], [[Lonefire Blossom]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Chain Disappearance]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Karma Cut]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Big Burn]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Gadgets]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Skill Drain]]
 
−
| This deck relies on their Effect when being Summoned to gain card advantage. Stops the Gadgets and [[Machina Gearframe]] from doing this.
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[King Tiger Wanghu]]
 
−
| The monsters in this deck as mostly weak Gadgets. This card kills all Gadgets, however can be destroyed by cards like [[Smashing Ground]], [[Fissure]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]]
 
−
| This deck relies on adding cards to their and from the Deck to gain card advantage, however can be destroyed by cards like [[Smashing Ground]], [[Fissure]], etc.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Deck Devastation Virus]]
 
−
| Kills all Gadgets for a while.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[System Down]]
 
−
| Removes them from play all their monsters. It does not Destroy.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Monarchs]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[By Order of the Emperor]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on their Effects.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Skill Drain]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Zombie World]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on Tribute Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Mask of Restrict]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Pulling the Rug]]
 
−
| Negates the effect and Destroys the monster.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Intercept]]
 
−
| Unlike Pulling the Rug, it doesn't Negate the effect, but you gain the monster/the Opponent loses a relatively strong monster.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Zombies]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Archlord Kristya]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="4" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Consecrated Light]]
 
−
| Restricts quite a few monsters in this deck, however there are just as many EARTH monsters in this deck.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer]]
 
−
| rowspan="3" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[D.D. Crow]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Big Burn]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Book of Life]]
 
−
| If [[Zombie World]] is in play, you can use this card to revive a monster, then remove an important monster from the Opponent's Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="font-size: 150%;" colspan=2 class="mainheader" |[[Theme Deck|List of cards to side in to cripple Common Themed decks]]<br>
 
−
|-
 
−
! style="font-size: 110%;" align="center" |Card Name
 
−
! style="font-size: 110%;" align="center" |Reason
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Disaster Dragon]] or [[Hopeless Dragon]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Zombie World]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on having Dragon Type monsters. Stops cards like [[Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon]] and [[Stamping Destruction]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| + [[Grave of the Super Ancient Organism]]
 
−
| Many of the monsters in this deck are high level monsters and are Special Summoned by [[Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon]], however it can be bypassed by cards like [[Stamping Destruction]].
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | This deck focuses heavily on the Graveyard, however there aren't too many effects that Target the Graveyard. [[Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon]] does not Target.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Macro Cosmos]]
 
−
| rowspan="3" | This deck can focus on the Graveyard.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Dimensional Fissure]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Frog]]s
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[King Tiger Wanghu]]
 
−
| Assuming it's the Synchro build, not the Solid/Wetlands build.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Skill Drain]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Effects.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Necrovalley]]
 
−
| rowspan="2" | Stops [[Fishborg Blaster]], [[Ronintoadin]] and [[Pot of Avarice]], however instead of Synchro Summoning, they could use an alternate strategy and lock you down and attack directly or something.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[The End of Anubis]]
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Six Samurai]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Gozen Match]]
 
−
| This deck uses all Attributes, so this card would greatly hinder the deck.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Warrior Elimination]]
 
−
| No cost and Destroys all your Opponent's monsters.
 
−
|-
 
−
! colspan=2 class="mainheader lightheader" |[[Fish Synchro OTK Deck|Fish Synchro OTK]]
 
−
|-
 
−
| > [[Royal Oppression]]
 
−
| This deck focuses heavily on Special Summons.
 
−
|-
 
−
| - [[Eternal Drought]] (OCG Only)
 
−
| No cost and Destroys all your Opponent's monsters.
 
 
|}
 
|}
 +
 +
==List==
 +
 +
<div align=right>[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}/List|action=edit}} Edit the list]</div>
 +
{{Forum:List of cards to side in against common decks/List}}
 +
 +
<nowiki>[</nowiki>[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=purge}} refresh]<nowiki>]</nowiki>
 +
{{ArchiveList}}
  
 
* '''This is based on the General/Basic builds of each deck.'''
 
* '''This is based on the General/Basic builds of each deck.'''
 
* '''Also taking into account of the cards run in those decks''' (e.g. Gadgets run lots of [[Fissure]]s and [[Smashing Ground]]s, so Thunder King Rai-Oh will not Cripple the deck) (e.g. Glads have tricks such as the Book of Moon trick against Skill Drain). However, this does not take into account of the opponent's Side Decks (e.g. ignores 3 [[Dust Tornado]]s in their Side Deck).
 
* '''Also taking into account of the cards run in those decks''' (e.g. Gadgets run lots of [[Fissure]]s and [[Smashing Ground]]s, so Thunder King Rai-Oh will not Cripple the deck) (e.g. Glads have tricks such as the Book of Moon trick against Skill Drain). However, this does not take into account of the opponent's Side Decks (e.g. ignores 3 [[Dust Tornado]]s in their Side Deck).
 
* '''Ignoring [[Staple]]s as they are not [[Side Deck]] material.'''
 
* '''Ignoring [[Staple]]s as they are not [[Side Deck]] material.'''
−
* If anyone would like to add (e.g. cards or top tier decks) or change things (e.g. move cards from cripple to works against) please post the ideas below. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:31, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
+
* If anyone would like to add (e.g. cards or top tier decks) or change things (e.g. move cards from cripple to works against) please post the ideas below.
 +
* {{User:Falzar_FZ/Sig}} 12:31, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== New Decktype ==
 +
 
 +
Maybe we should add a new deck to the decklist: the one that revolves around [[Reborn Tengu]]. A good number of Tengu decks made it to the Top 32 in the previous Orlando tournament. Maybe a couple of cards that can be sided-in against them are [[Archlord Kristya]] and [[Royal Oppression]], since Tengu decks seem to rely a lot on Special Summoning.
 +
 
 +
[[User:Moja619|Moja619]] ([[User talk:Moja619|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moja619|contribs]]) 17:39, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
: [[Vanity's Fiend]] used in Frog decks.
 +
: [[Debunk]]
 +
: and you ''could'' abuse the fact that [[Reborn Tengu]] is a [[Mandatory]] Trigger. Would be nice if there was some combo that lets you attack all of them continuously and OTK them.... or vice versa, like a Strong monster + [[Battle Mania]]. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:04, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
can i ask what cards is best to side against twilight deck ? if i'm not wrong i has not see on the the list [[User:Gemini 93|Gemini 93]] ([[User talk:Gemini 93|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gemini 93|contribs]]) 02:39, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
: First two that come to mind are [[Chaos Trap Hole]], [[Koa'ki Meiru Drago]] (kinda);
 +
: other anti Special Summoned cards, other anti Lightsworn cards (depending on the type of Twilight deck). <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:37, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 +
: Well if you are running a simple deck, i would say light and shadow imprisonment Mirror, especially when the foe is using  a  lightsworn dragon --[[User:MSBlinga|MSBlinga]] ([[User talk:MSBlinga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MSBlinga|contribs]]) 21:28, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:Prohibition against Monarchs and Frogs = Win.{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}
 +
 
 +
:: What is the best monster to declare?
 +
:: added Chain Disappearance against Formula Synchron spammers
 +
:: Rivalry of Warlords against Monarchs (before, if you only control 1 monster, you can Tribute 1 Type for another Type in a Tribute Summon; now you cannot.)
 +
:: Added section on Dark World.
 +
:: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 11:57, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
How come [[Reborn Tengu|Tengu]] [[Synchro Summon|Synchro]] still doesn't appear in the Deck list above? It's pretty much dominating the major tournaments since Tengu's release  [[User:Moja619|Moja619]] ([[User talk:Moja619|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moja619|contribs]]) 21:06, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
: It's being discussed, (under the heading "New Decktype"; just a few lines above).
 +
: I'm not sure if it's worth starting a new section for them, or add it to the plants section.
 +
: Any suggestions on the cards apart from the ones in the plants section and the 2 mentioned above? <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:57, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Yeah, i see your point. plant synchro is quite similar to Tengu synchro outside of tengu itself. i don't know if the negation effects of cards like [[Solemn Warning]], [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]] and [[Black Horn of Heaven]] used on a [[Special Summon|Special Summoned]] tengu will prevent it from using its effect.  [[User:Moja619|Moja619]] ([[User talk:Moja619|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moja619|contribs]]) 02:03, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
: [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]]/[[Black Horn of Heaven]] (Summon negation) cards don't work against Special Summons that occur during resolution of an effect. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:44, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Modern Built ==
 +
 
 +
:Gladiator Beasts: [[Solemn Warning]]
 +
:Gladiator Beasts: [[Dimensional Prison]]
 +
:Warning is definitely a Main Deck card.
 +
:Dragons:[[Different Dimension Ground]] won't do anything if chained to [[Trade-In]] since discarding a monster is a [[cost]]. [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 21:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Most people maindeck both already.{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}
 +
 
 +
: Solemn Warning's a [[Staple]], Dimensional Prison is already listed there.
 +
: Was intended to prevent Trade-In from being activated that turn by activating it before hand, like in the Standby Phase, but I guess there's little point in that and you don't know when the opponent would have it, removed Trade-In from the list. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
 +
::I think they're already [[Staples]], and are thus not [[Side Deck]] Material.
 +
[[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:32, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
==Stuff==
 +
:In the references to [[Necrovalley]], both [[Gigaplant]] and [[REDMD]] are noted to "not Target". That is no longer an issue. I find it ironic that there's a warning to get [[Royal Oppression]] out before [[Herald of Perfection]] comes out, but nothing like that in the [[Six Samurai|6S]] section.
 +
:Also, you listed [[Ally Salvo]] as a counter to [[Celestia]] and [[JD]]. Prolly dittography.
 +
By the way, does [[Dimensional Fissure]] hurt [[Gravekeeper's]]? [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 21:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: Fixed, thanks.
 +
:: Removed; was probably thinking of something else.
 +
:: Not really... I don't think so... <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
==Allies of Justice==
 +
[[Ally of Justice Cycle Reader]] is awesome against Lightsworns and Agents-it's a double D.D. Crow and it's a Level 3 Tuner monster if you want to use it in a Synchro Summon. [[Ally of Justice Core Destroyer]] is a Catastor when you're dueling Agents and Lightsworns that you can summon at no cost.{{User:BobaFett2/sig2}}
 +
:"Cycle Reader" is a great Side, particularly against [[Fabled]]. "Core Destroyer" is OK, but [[Agent]]s can Synchro around it or bomb it with "[[Master Hyperion|Hyperion]]". Lightsworns have a bit of trouble unless they're the [[Chaos]] variant (they usually are). 'Least it kills "Wulf".
 +
::On an unrelated note, "[[Chain Disappearance]]" only works against "[[Infernity Mirage]]" in the OCG.
 +
[[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:24, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::: Can you explain? I don't see why it can't be used on [[Infernity Necromancer]] in the <s>OCG</s>TCG... <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 22:54, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Cards to side against Agents need to be added, as they are now the top deck of the format. I recommend [[Thunder King Rai-Oh]] (stops Earth, negates Hyperion/Kristya/BLS if they run it, Sangan if they run BLS), [[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]] (stops everything), [[Leeching the Light]], (gain major ATK for game, was popular at the last YCS), [[Dimensional Fissure]]/[[Macro Cosmos]] (nothing in grave, no fuel for Hyperion, nothing to drop Kristya, nothing for BLS, Sangan doesn't search). [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 05:57, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
[[Grave of the Super Ancient Organism]] stops Hyperion, BLS, Kristya, and Trishula as well as the occasional Stardust. [[Chain Disappearance]] rids you of pesky Earths and Shine Balls.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 12:50, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
I can't believe I forgot this: side [[Zombie Master]] against Zombies. [[Paladin of the Cursed Dragon]] works as well although not necessarily as effectively. Of course, [[Puppet Plant]] works as well. Kycoo stops Book of Life if I'm not mistaken.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 23:01, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Ah. [[Big Burn]] against Infernities, or does that not work? [[Ally of Justice Quarantine]] isn't bad against Agents (Vulnerable only to Honest and Jupiter, and not even BLS).[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 23:25, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Big Burn worked pre-Leviair, but now it might actually help them. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 01:55, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Nah, it's as effective as ever-unless they have Tour Guide, they have no access to Leviair once their Necromancers are Banished.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 02:11, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
And all good Infernity decks are running Tour Guide. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 19:19, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 +
::I meant that they have to draw it, since they'll be topdecking.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 20:40, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 +
:Definitely a counter.
 +
:I should have been clearer. "[[Infernity Mirage]]" cannot be stopped by "[[Chain Disappearance]]" in the TCG because it is no longer a valid target after the cost for its effect is carried out (with [[Priority]]).
 +
:"[[Zombie World]]" works all right against Agents. It stops Kristya, keeps Hyperion from bombing anything, blocks the effect of Jupiter, and crushes Sanctuary if they're using it (sillyheads). Doesn't stop Venus though.
 +
[[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:06, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 +
:::Are you saying Big Burn is a counter?[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 20:39, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: Actually, my mistake, I misread it as you can't use it in the OCG for some reason, when you meant you can't use it in TCG. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 02:35, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
[[Mind Crush]] really trips up Machina Gadget decks, especially those that use the Gadget chain with Ultimate Offering for Xyz. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 13:03, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
==Dark World==
 +
* "[[Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer]]" is good for blocking Gates and Smog, and fiddles with the Graveyard. He dies to Raven and Snoww+, though.
 +
* Maybe you could add the caveat "bypassed by [[Dark World Lightning]]"; that card makes Debunk very hard to use.
 +
[[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 15:04, November 13, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
==Rabbit / Evolsar ==
 +
Any Ideas to stop this new threat? [[User:Ruicub|Ruicub]] ([[User talk:Ruicub|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ruicub|contribs]]) 12:07, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
[[Imperial Iron Wall]]. More [[Effect Veiler]].[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 17:37, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Use [[Dark Trap Hole]] and [[Giant Trap Hole]] to counter rescue rabbit, it should work quite effectively seen as it was originally desinged to counter [[Rescue Cat]]. [[Karma Cut]] can annoy rescue rabbit although he he may re summmoned later with [[Leviair the Sea Dragon]]
 +
 
 +
[[User:Matthew Lightbody|[email protected]]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 16:09, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
I sided [[Lava Golem]] during Six Samurai format. I plan to do the same if the Rabbit Dino deck becomes big. It won't, though. It can't compare to Plant Synchro. [[User:Lappyzard|Lappyzard]] ([[User talk:Lappyzard|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lappyzard|contribs]]) 17:59, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Any more advice to counter Rabbit / Evolzar? [[Special:Contributions/24.0.144.144|24.0.144.144]] ([[User talk:24.0.144.144|talk]]) 00:57, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
 +
:[[Imperial Iron Wall]] works. [[Maxx "C"]] is pretty effective just to draw cards.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 01:10, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
 +
::No one's mentioned "[[Summon Limit]]"? Also, "[[Rivalry of Warlords]]" pretty much locks Xyzs.
 +
[[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 01:55, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Why has nobody mentioned [[Mirror of Oaths]]? I side deck two nowadays on DN to stop Rabbit and GB. [[User:Menace13|Menace13]] ([[User talk:Menace13|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Menace13|contribs]]) at 04:03, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Nobody seems to realise that Gozen Match just kills off Dino Rabbit. I think a Blackwing-Gozen Deck could easily win, as could a Dragunity-Gozen Deck. [[User:Vyomo|Vyomo]]
 +
 
 +
==Dark World==
 +
I have a sugggestion for side decking against dark worlds. You can side deck [[Appropriate]] , so that whenever they draw a card you also draw 2 cards, this can give you very good hand adavantage ,and it can be combined with [[Maxx "C"]] to get more extra cards.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
[[User:Matthew Lightbody|[email protected]]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 14:04, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== Exodia ==
 +
 
 +
For Exodia, can we put Exchange to "cripples the deck completely", and add [[Amazoness Chain Master]] (not as good since you have to get it killed, but still useable). [[User:Battlemaniac|Battlemaniac]] ([[User talk:Battlemaniac|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Battlemaniac|contribs]]) 16:44, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
==BF2's Additions==
 +
[[4-Starred Ladybug of Doom]] against Gadgets, Gravekeeper's, and Gladiator Beasts.
 +
 
 +
Steelswarm is actually pretty good, and if added, [[Blackwing - Jin the Rain Shadow]] is an side card (Catastor against them). If I'm not mistaken, [[Des Donut]] hurts them as well. [[Infestation Wave]] actually hurts them as you can return their monster to their hand and destroy their card.
 +
 
 +
[[Chain Burn]] is missing - [[Rainbow Life]], [[Des Wombat]], [[Lifeforce Harmonizer]], and [[Prime Material Dragon]] are all good sides against them. [[Vanity's Emptiness]] is also incredibly against them as it even stops their draw cards.
 +
 
 +
[[Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell]], while a -1, will almost certainly paralyze Dragunities and hurt Gravekeeper's. [[Field Barrier]] hurts them as well, preventing them from playing Field Spell Cards.
 +
 
 +
[[Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo]] is a godsend against Fabled - protect it with a Trap or two and you can't lose.
 +
 
 +
[[Huge Revolution Reversal]] is good against Scrap (Scrap Dragon).
 +
 
 +
[[Hunter of Black Feathers]] is good against any mono-Attribute Archetype - Agents, Sabers, Dark World, etc.
 +
 
 +
[[Infinite Dismissal]] against Plants.
 +
 
 +
[[Karakuri Klock]] works against Karakuri.
 +
 
 +
More to come.
 +
[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 18:00, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
[[King Tiger Wanghu]] stops Mystical Shine Balls and destroys Earth, as well as destroying Kageki/Kagemusha/Elder (which cripples Six Samurai), destroys most X-Sabers, destroys Infernities (other than Archfiend), hurts Plants/Naturia, devastates Inzektor Wind-Ups, makes Treeborn Frog useless, etc.
 +
 
 +
Rescue Laggia is missing, [[Mirror of Oaths]], [[Smashing Horn]], and [[Bottomless Trap Hole]] are all effective side cards, as is [[Imperial Iron Wall]].
  
−
:Make sure to add Consecrated Light to the Zombie pile, and Mirror of Oaths, Jujitsu Master, and D.D. Warrior Lady to GBs. {{User:Blue-Eyes White Kid/sig}} 23:07, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
+
[[Snowman Eater]] is good against [[Miracle Gemini]].
  
−
:I would not say that Zombies are crippled by Consecrated Light. Just summon Pyramid Turtle and poof. [[Special:Contributions/67.101.29.130|67.101.29.130]] 02:20, April 28, 2010 (UTC)Runer5h
+
[[Widespread Dud]] is bait against X-Sabers and Scraps that gets rid of their cards.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 19:04, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
:: Yea, my thoughts were all the Earth monsters in Zombies, so I didn't put it there. I'll add it to the "can work against" section though, and a few other things. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 05:51, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
+
Made some modifications, more to come.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 19:26, January 5, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
[[Monarchs]] are vunrable to [[Intercept]], [[Monarchs]] & [[Disaster Dragon]] / [[Hopeless Dragon]] are vunrable to [[Zombie World]], [[Zombies]] are annoyed by [[Book of Life]] / [[Zombie Master]] & [[Lightsworns]] are weak to [[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]]-RESK-[[Special:Contributions/193.62.251.50|193.62.251.50]] 12:54, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
+
:I think you meant [[Karakuri Trick House]].
  
−
[[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]] against Blackwings and Infernities and there are people that side deck [[Blackwing - Sirocco the Dawn]] against Blackwings.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 13:28, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
+
:[[Rivalry of Warlords]] and [[Gozen Match]] are pretty good against Rabbit and Wind-Ups. [[D.D. Crow]] works okay against Wind-Ups and Inzektors if you can cut their loops short. They can go for Leviair if you mispredict and they're still holding Gallis or Spell Striker, though. [[Special:Contributions/24.199.53.194|24.199.53.194]] ([[User talk:24.199.53.194|talk]]) 21:14, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
: - For Intercept, they get to choose the targets for the effects first, but it still works since they lose the monster and you keep their monster.
+
== More cards to cripple Dragunities ==
−
: > Zombie World owns REDMD so I suppose that cripples the deck.
 
−
: - Book of Life is a bit situational, unless you have a Plague in your grave or if Zombie World is in play. Afterwards, it removes a Zombie so it works against them I guess.
 
−
:  Zombie Master just lets you grab more monsters, not much more than that, unless I missed something.
 
−
: >, - For SIM, taking into account of those Icarus, etc. wait, that means Holy Light goes down to - as well.
 
−
: - I've seen that done as well, since Sirroco powers up using the opponent's BWs.
 
−
: [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 13:56, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
[[By Order of the Emperor]] against Monarchs.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 14:43, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
+
Could you side in a [[Dark Highlander]] against a [[Dragunity]] deck since it stops all [[Synchro Summon]]s and can take out [[Equip Card]]s and burn for each?  Not to mention having a 2800 atk level 7 beatstick on the field[[User:Ja1lbreakr0cks|Ja1lbreakr0cks]] ([[User talk:Ja1lbreakr0cks|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ja1lbreakr0cks|contribs]]) 17:20, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
[[Fiendish Chain]] and most [[Koa'ki Meiru]] cards can cripple almost any deck --[[User:Azure Knight-Zeo|Azure Knight-Zeo]] 20:18, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
+
== Newer Archetypes ==
 +
Some I'm thinking of: <br>
 +
<b>Rabbit:</b><br>
 +
[[Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter]].<br>
 +
[[Penguin Soldier]].<br>
 +
[[Snowman Eater]], etc.<br>
 +
Not many run Dolkka or try to get it out, most go for Laggia which is only really vulnerable to flip effect monsters or monsters already on the field.<br>
 +
[[Summon Limit]], but it doesn't solve the first turn problem.<Br>
 +
[[Overlay Owl]] but they would negate its summon anyway.<br>
  
−
: - [[Corridor of Agony]] from [[The Shining Darkness]] cripples GBs pretty bad, as GBs from the deck cannot use their tag effects and cannot attack. [[User:Ascriptmaster|Ascriptmaster]] 05:42, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
+
<b>Inzektors:</b><br>
 +
[[Effect Veiler]].<br>
 +
[[D.D. Crow]].<br>
 +
[[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]].<br>
 +
[[Consecrated Light]] (only if they have no hornet equipped, so not that great).<br>
 +
[[Necrovalley]] (not extremely good but decent).<br>
 +
[[Safe Zone]] (they pop it they lose a monster, not amazing though).<br>
 +
[[Fiendish Chain]].<br>
 +
[[Chain Disappearance]].<br>
  
−
:: [[Corridor of Agony]] is [[Corridor of Suffering]], but thanks for reminding me to change it to the new name. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 05:45, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
+
<b>Wind-Ups:</b><br>
 +
[[Maxx "C"]].<br>
 +
[[Effect Veiler]].<br>
 +
[[D.D. Crow]]?<br>
 +
[[Regenerating Mummy]] possibly, if they send it to the grave you add it back to your hand, they're likely to hit it constantly when the hand gets low. Not bad to draw into too.<br>
 +
[[Neko Mane King]] possibly, if they hit it their turn ends, risky though, bad to draw into too. Could also be a side against Dark Worlds.<br>
 +
Since these are a first turn deck at the moment I won't list cards that need to be already on the field.<br>
  
−
== Would like to see counter frog stradegys up there ==
+
<b>Hieroglyphs: </b> <i>(I don't know much about these)</i><br>
 +
[[Maxx "C"]].<br>
 +
I'm not sure if [[Effect Veiler]] does much against them.<br>
 +
[[Zombie World]], tribute summon quite a lot (although that might be tribute to summon), and it stops quite a few Dragon specific cards.<br>
 +
[[Mask of Restrict]].<br>
 +
[[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]], most of them are light.<br>
 +
[[Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror]], it'd stop their REDMD.<br>
 +
[[Summon Limit]], they spam a lot.<br>
 +
[[King Tiger Wanghu]] since they spam 0 attack monsters quite often.<br>
 +
Any negate special summon cards like [[Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo]].<br>
  
−
Don't know how hot they will be but the potential is defninatly there for someone to create something wicked stupid with it.
+
<b>Ninjas:</b> <br>
 +
[[Thunder King Rai-Oh]], they add to the hand often.<br>
 +
[[Effect Veiler]] can really hurt their [[Upstart Golden Ninja]].<br>
 +
[[Royal Decree]] can hurt, but they don't really need [[Ninjitsu Art of Super-Transformation]] to run, Xyz spamming with dead traps would work almost as well.<br>
 +
[[Warrior Elimination]], they don't spam much though.<br>
  
−
I know that due to there special summoning mechanism alot of anti GB cards would be effective like Mirror of Oaths and along with the corridor card.
+
Any other new top tier(ish) archetype I'm forgetting?<br>
 +
[[Special:Contributions/121.222.228.13|121.222.228.13]] ([[User talk:121.222.228.13|talk]]) 04:10, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
Don't know if there are really many cards that punish small monsters. Theres a few dragon ones but there really only usable if you have dragons.
+
Against Rabbits, you're better off with [[Spirit Reaper]], [[Arcana Force 0 - The Fool]], [[Marshmallon]], and, believe it or not, [[Wave-Motion Cannon]]. Dolkka can negate the Flip Effect monsters making them less useful. [[Lava Golem]] is also an insanely good side against them.
−
[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 21:28, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
::: I'll add a new section then. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 06:20, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
+
Hieroglyphs don't have to use REDMD, so strike Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror. Wanghu isn't very effective as they'll kill it with either an effect or by battle (their 0 attack monsters would come out after they've destroyed him). Leeching the Light is decent against Hieroglyphs as they have high ATK monsters.
  
−
:[[Prohibition]] works vs most things, [[Infernity Archfiend]]/Catapult, [[Black Whirlwind]], [[Gladiator Beast Bestiari]], :[[Judgment Dragon]], [[Dark Armed Dragon]], [[XX-Saber Faultroll]]....etc
+
For Ninjas, Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror isn't a bad side - it stops Tour Guide and Hanzo.
−
:[[Warrior Elimination]]-Six Sam, [[Exile of the Wicked]]-Infernity, [[Eternal Drought]]-Fish Sync OTK
+
[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 14:19, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
−
: Oh, and plants are weak to [[Zombie World]] as well ([[Pollinosis]], [[Lord Poison]], [[Gigaplant]], [[Tytannial, Princess of Camellias]])-[[Special:Contributions/213.123.215.233|213.123.215.233]] 12:09, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
:: ok, updated. (excluding Prohibition from BWs, LSs and X-Sabers from taking into account of the other cards in those decks) [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:23, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
+
:I completely forgot about Hanzo being dark. And why would [[Wave-Motion Cannon]] be a good side against rabbit? I'm not quite getting that. Is it because if they don't negate it they could get big damage, if they do they lose materials? Because if that's the case wouldn't cards like [[Smashing Ground]] or [[Dimensional Prison]] be better?[[Special:Contributions/123.211.144.181|123.211.144.181]] ([[User talk:123.211.144.181|talk]]) 08:11, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
  
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Havnt tried this yet but [[The Gift of Greed]] may find some use agaisnt infernitys. Just don't know if letting your oppenent get two cards will be worth stopping a effect.  
+
If you watch !      Xcloud (some number of spaces) play on DN, you'll see that he sides everything against Rabbits. He does extremely well against Rabbits by siding in a bunch of wall monsters (The Fool, Reaper, Marshmallon) an Wave-Motion Cannon. If I'm not mistaken, they don't run a lot of Spell/Trap removal...[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 17:33, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
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[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 19:18, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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:Dust Tornado should work against Infernities. Destroy Launcher as soon as it's activated, make your opponent a very sad person. [[User:Runer5h|Runer5h]] 19:39, April 29, 2010 (UTC)Runer5h
+
I can see why the stall monsters would work. Their only real destruction cards would be [[Dark Hole]], maybe 1 or 2 [[Smashing Ground]] or [[Dimensional Prison]], and I don't think you'll be attacking much with the stall monsters. But [[Wave-Motion Cannon]] still seems iffy to me, Laggia can negate it if they wish, but I guess it'd make them think a bit more if they want to use those solemns that have set later too.[[Special:Contributions/123.211.144.181|123.211.144.181]] ([[User talk:123.211.144.181|talk]]) 08:18, February 22, 2012 (UTC)
  
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[[Tualatin]] works against any Deck that only has a single attribute like [[Blackwings]] and [[Infernity]].[[Special:Contributions/115.135.245.196|115.135.245.196]] 01:55, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
+
They don't use a lot of backrow destruction and Laggia usually has better things to negate (and if they negate it, you're free to use Dark Hole or another good card).[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 13:45, February 22, 2012 (UTC)
  
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[[Archlord Kristya]] basically stops anything that special summons. Since we already have her in the list, shouldn't we also include [[Cactus Bouncer]]?-[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 02:59, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
+
What about [[Mask of Restrict]] for Hieratics? I feel as if it would be a > or + card on the above list, because most Hieratic plays and means of destroying cards come from tribute effects. [[Special:Contributions/108.196.206.15|108.196.206.15]] ([[User talk:108.196.206.15|talk]]) 14:27, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 +
:+ would be appropriate. It shuts down the engine, but like Macro Cosmos and Necrovalley it's vulnerable to Tefnuit -> A Wingbeat of Giant Dragon. [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 00:01, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
  
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* Instead of [[The Gift of Greed]], I'll add [[Dark Bribe]]. It's makes them draw, and it Negates something.
+
== Dino rabbits,Wind-up and Inzektors ==
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* The ruling of "''You cannot activate "Infernity Launcher" and simultaneously activate its effect.''" is odd, but it allows Dust Tornado to step in so that's a good idea.
 
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* Tualatin would cripple Infernities, that is if they actually destroy your monsters by battle. Most of the time they [[Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier|Trish]] you first... multiple times, which is annoying. So I would add it to the - area.
 
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* I'd say that Cactus Bouncer is a bit too situational, you'll need another plant monster on the field for the effect to work, your opponent must not normal summon a ≥1800 monster so they can destroy it by battle (assuming they don't already control one), and your opponent must not use cards like Smashing Ground.
 
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* [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 06:41, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Gotta say I really like this thread FZ. Really great work. I was gonna ask for something like this a while ago but wanted to have some better understand of the newer metas before i did. Very useful overall.
+
This list should have sections for those 3 i have some cards : inzektors:
−
[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 03:37, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
*necrovalley:stops dragonfly and others from equipping hornet from graveyard.
 +
*d.d. Crow:when they try to get hornet from the grave,chain and LOL at their dragonfly unassisted
 +
*different dimension ground:chain this to anything they use to dump hornet in grave.
 +
*effect veiler:use to stop inzektors from equipping anything.
 +
*macro cosmos:unlike dimensional fissure,this works on spells
 +
[[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 16:03, February 22, 2012 (UTC)
  
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: You're actually the first one who used my preferred nickname here.
+
:Having played Wind-Ups, I find it horribly injurious when the opponent springs a [[Bottomless Trap Hole]] on Zenmaity. Breaks the loop, leaves the Wind-Up player struggling for a turn. Oh, wait, do you guys still have the Priority ruling? Guess it won't work that way for the TCG. At least it still can be used on Shark.
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: NP. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 10:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
:[[Effect Veiler]] is also particularly useful in defusing Zenmaity and Rat. Especially Rat, since they will be left with a monster with 600 ATK in Attack Position just asking to be beaten in.
 +
--[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 14:06, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
  
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Fixed your Dark Bribe link for ya ^^ [[Special:Contributions/203.206.181.39|203.206.181.39]] 06:34, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
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In the list above, [[Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell]] is listed twice for Gravekeeper's (with different ratings of effectiveness). Also, how about [[Consecrated Light]] against Steelswarms and [[Royal Decree]] against Chain Burn? [[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 18:57, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
  
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: Um... yea, ty.
+
::I just realized, [[Gozen Match]] and [[Rivalry of Warlords]] can both cripple Wind-Ups, right? [[Special:Contributions/99.165.192.113|99.165.192.113]] ([[User talk:99.165.192.113|talk]]) 00:50, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
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: [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 10:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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[[Light-Imprisoning Mirror]] against Lightlords.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 10:18, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
:::Yes, and they cripple Dino Rabbit as well. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  00:52, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
  
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: I forgot to add that when it was mentioned above :P
+
--[[Special:Contributions/68.41.75.225|68.41.75.225]] ([[User talk:68.41.75.225|talk]]) 08:55, April 2, 2012 (UTC)I have found Icy Crevice to be a interesting card to side agaisnt insector players. It will hurt them for playing hornet and has the potential to break up loops. In addition after its been played once the oppenent will begin to act more cautiously around single backfields. Just a card not widely expected that can throw insecktors off their game.
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: [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 10:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
:If they shot your monster before shooting your back row, they are being silly. Which reminds me: "[[Wild Tornado]]" and "[[Security Orb]]".[[Special:Contributions/207.233.120.2|207.233.120.2]] ([[User talk:207.233.120.2|talk]]) 17:35, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
  
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[[Brain Golem]] against Lightlords.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 11:46, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
We need to update the table at the top for the current meta. Someone please do it. Its really accessible to all users and its a good list with good explanations.
  
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You can add [[Banisher of the Light]] (crippling), [[Banisher of the Radiance]] (can work against), [[The Bistro Butcher]] (can work against), [[Summon Limit]] (can work against), [[The Gift of Greed]] (which is chainable and can work against), [[Grave of the Super Ancient Organism]] (maybe not, your choice, can work against) and [[Book of Eclipse]] (crippling) to the Infernities countering cards. [[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 12:04, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
+
[[User:Roughpuppet|Roughpuppet]] ([[User talk:Roughpuppet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Roughpuppet|contribs]]) 10:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
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:BEFORE YOU GO CRAZY ON ME, I think that the Gift of Greed should be put in the list because it stops them from activating any of the conditional effects, without requiring any other cards to be played. Yes, you should play Dark Bribe over The Gift the Greed, but you certainly shouldn't ignore it because it doesn't have any offensive capabilities. [[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 12:20, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
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:With the recent changes to Ignition Priority (now "Fast Effect Timing", i.e. nonexistent for Ignition Effect Monsters), "[[Effect Veiler]]" becomes a viable side against Dino Rabbit. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 18:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
  
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* Not too sure on the monsters. Since all you need to do is summon a slightly bigger monster and bash.
+
: For the record, I haven't played for a long time, I'm not sure about the current meta, or what to use against it.
−
:: The Bistro Butcher might not work against well built Infernity decks, since they can stop it with their Necromancer
+
: I've mentioned a couple of times that anyone can edit the list as long as they know what they're doing (follow proper table syntax); or post below if they're not sure about adding to the table.
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:: Summon Limit works a bit.
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: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 23:45, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
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:: Book of Eclipse because it also flips the monsters face-down, so they can't synchro summon.
 
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:: Not sure on the tactic on just making them draw cards, anyone else tried that against a well built infernity deck? (I'm thinking that it may help them in the long run, if more people say it works, then I'll add them)
 
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* Just noticed that Oppression wasn't on Infernities. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Don't edit the list without asking the reasons first, a few of the reasons are: Skill Drain is - because there are many ways for GBs to bypass it (book of moon, e-con, etc tricks), Shadow I Mirror is - in BWs because of cards like Icarus and other annoying s/t they use. Grave of the Super Ancient Organism is - in Dragons because of cards like Stampling Destruction. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:32, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
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ok.. i'll get some small suggestions on the most common cards to use against the meta decks.
  
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:Won't happen again. You might want to put the reasons on the list, though (to make it clear). Also, [[Vengeful Bog Spirit]] might work well against Infernities. [[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 12:35, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
+
Dino-Rabbits  gozen/rivalry. different attibutes and types, rabbit being earth/beast. rest being dino/ earth or water or fire. Xyz monsters are dragon/fire.
  
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:* I don't think that card would make much of a difference. The main way to stop Infernities is to prevent them from Triple [[Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier|Trish]]ing you. Also, instead of attacking, they can use their effects and attack next turn (e.g. easily get stardust and wait 1 turn, get Infernity Death Dragon and pop a monster with effect and not attack anyway, triple Trish and you're basically dead anyway)
+
effect veiler, post priority ruling, priority was able to cause it to use its effect before veiler so it was off the field before veiler activates. also useful to negate evolsar dollka if one feels like doing so. forces them to waste material.
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:* Generally, if a card is Continuous or is a monster that is hard to beat against that deck, and it completely stops that deck's main strategy. Then it goes on the Cripple side.
 
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:* Actually. New catagory. If there are loopholes in those Cont/Monster cards, or if a deck contains cards to stop them, then they go to the + list.
 
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:* Feel free to ask why a card is in a certain category, or disagree (and state the reason).
 
−
[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:40, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Why do people hate Infernitys so much? -_________-
+
chain disappearance, better post priority. similar reason to above, though it will leave the field first. Also able to use against tour guide, another staple against this deck.
  
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Also, in the Infernitys section, Book of Eclipse is noted down twice...
+
spirit reaper/marshmallon, good stallking monster cards, do not activate, does not need to be normal or special summoned(set) thus cannot be negated when attacked. good stall card to stop them from beating you down.
  
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Wanghu could possibly be used against Infernitys since Beetle and Necromancer are below 1400ATK points. Add in a Burden and Archfiend cant survive too... [[User:Akyrix|Akyrix]] 15:20, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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People are hating on them so much because there brand new and some havn't had alot of experiance playing agaisnt them and they remind some people of that horrible time of the synchro kitty plopping down double DSFs and owning your field.  
+
Inzektors: shadow imprisoning, all dark, activate on field in order to control. not unlike reasons for infernity
  
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Decks that people feel that can't have some degree of control over make people jumpy and they want to know all the ins and outs of how to effectivally combat them.  
+
macro cosmos, does not allow them to send hornet or any other equipped inzektor card to the graveyard. same thing as shadow imprisoning.
−
[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 19:33, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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: I copy a similar line up before editing/adding the name, I might have copied it up, then forgot to change it xD
+
effect veiler, generally good at negating their effects of all monsters
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: Wanghu is currently > on QD Plants (QD is SSd face-up, Dandy tokens SSd face-up, etc) and Gadgets (must be Normal Summoned Face-up to get their effects). It wasn't on Infernities because they can set their Necromancer, I could add it to -. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 00:03, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Machina? [[User:OjaOwnage|OjaOwnage]] 19:50, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
chain disappearance, able to banish a dragonfly or hornet if they get summoned. stops their special summoning mechanic and causes them to not be able to swarm.
  
−
Oh I guess gadgets covers machina [[User:OjaOwnage|OjaOwnage]] 19:52, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
+
Wind-ups, gozen/rivalry. all different types and attributes. no explanation needed
  
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Machina Gadget can be added, similar to QD Synchro, if the card needed are somewhat different. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 00:03, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
+
cyber dragon/chimeratech. wind-up XYZ cards are all machine type, thus a good card to counter. to zenmaines and zenmeity.
  
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To the unknown poster, I saw a youtube video on an overview of Infernities after randomly seeing this page on my yugioh wikia home page. I then suggested some cards that would combat those strategies. FZ, keep up the good work, but could you add the explanation for why the cards get their statuses (like how consecrated light and shadow imprisoning mirror get icarus attacked)?[[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 03:51, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
+
effect veiler. able to stop wind up loop during first turn loop
  
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: For Consecrated Light and SIM, they're in the + list
+
maxx C. negates the effects of wind up loop, by drawing more cards then they make you discard.
−
: Referring to [[Blackwing]]s, excluding staples,
 
−
: Consecrated Light can be stopped by: [[Book of Moon]], [[Smashing Ground]], [[Fissure]], [[Lightning Vortex]], [[Icarus Attack]]
 
−
: SIM can be stopped by: [[Icarus Attack]] or they can just continue to duel without effects. It does not stop Kalut. There is actually a DrainWings build.
 
−
:: as for whoever changed Lightlord to Lightsworn, I don't really mind. I used Lightlord because it sounded a lot cooler. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 05:26, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Ha loving to see brain golem up that agaisnt lightsworm. People who ran that deck thought that card would be pointless till it crippled them a few times. Not amazing but a solid sidedeck. [[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 06:49, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Adding [[Necrovalley]] as Infernity crippler. Also adding [[Crevice Into the Different Dimension]] and [[Karma Cut]]. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:10, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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Why isnt Kycoo in the Infernitys section...
+
There are definitely more cards to side deck against these and other matchups but this is the general kick start to the big 3 decks this format. effect veiler may be a general card as people main deck it as well. but always good to mention.
  
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Also, are we ignoring staples like Bottomless Trap Hole, MST and stuff?
+
other deck types inc darkworlds, heroes. main meta decks that have not been mentioned above.
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:Staples aren't typically side deck options. [[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 13:06, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
 
  
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AAND, why no Discord in Infernitys section!? Cant imagine playing Infernitys without saying "Synchro"
+
[[User:Roughpuppet|Roughpuppet]] ([[User talk:Roughpuppet|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Roughpuppet|contribs]]) 14:19, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
−
[[User:Akyrix|Akyrix]] 12:23, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
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:Good suggestion. [[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 13:06, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
 
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::On a related note, do all of the cards mentioned in this list have mentions in their tips pages that they are good against the decks mentioned here (if not, we might want to work on that)?[[User:Zeroblizzard|Zeroblizzard]] 13:10, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Zeroblizzard
 
  
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Theres a rather old card that may find some use nowadays agaisnt gb and a few other decks. [[Chain Destruction]] may be useful at stalling a oppenents stradegy. I know that a few cards can still swarm heavily from the graveyard but forcing all copies of that card to go to the graveyard will slow a stradegy down alittle.
+
Guys, read the original comments Falzar made.<br>
 +
"<b>Ignoring [[Staples]] as they are not Side Deck material.</b>"
 +
Under [[Staples]]: <br>
 +
Effect Monsters
 +
*<u>Maxx C</u>
 +
*<u>Effect Veiler</u><br>
  
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It combos well with karma cut or necrovalley. Probally not a crippling card but a effective card.
+
:Perhaps Maxx "C" shouldn't be listed. But certain OTK Decks like [[Evil HERO Dark Gaia OTK|Dark Gaia OTK]] and [[Empty Jar]] will end the game if your opponent drops "[[Heavy Storm]]" or "[[Trap Stun]]" and you don't have Veiler. Maybe Glads or Zombies don't need Veiler against most things, but there are times when it's the only viable option. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 17:27, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
  
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Just a thought. Havn't play tested it heavily do to no one in my area having it.  
+
::But the thing is they're a main deck card where you side the rest, they aren't cards you'd side if you don't main them.<br>
−
[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 19:50, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
+
::[[Special:Contributions/121.222.167.78|121.222.167.78]] ([[User talk:121.222.167.78|talk]]) 05:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
  
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[[Chain Destruction]] rarely works against GBs because they don't usually run copies of the same monster.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 01:22, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
+
Well, against Dino Rabbit, I would suggest side decking [[Black Ray Lancer]] and [[Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon]],not to mention [[Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon]], whose overwhelming effect can destroy any Dino decks. I would also recommend the forgotten [[Majestic Star Dragon]], who can destroy a Dino Rabbit deck in seconds
 +
If you aren't maining Maxx "C"/Veiler you probably shouldn't be siding them either.<br>
 +
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 13:57, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
 +
:Lancer and Galaxy-Eyes most likely won't make it to the field, and Lancer only has 2100 ATK anyways. "[[Majestic Star Dragon]]" is unlikely to land as well, and won't be around on your opponent's turn.
 +
:What I meant about Veiler is that a Deck  which normally has no need for Veilers, is compelled to run them to protect itself from what would otherwise be an unpreventable OTK. Ancient history.
 +
:"[[Trap Hole]]" works nicely against Inzektors, killing Dragonfly, Centipede, and Hopper. It doesn't hit Hornet, [[Inzektor Ladybug|Ladybug]] or DAD, but it can't be circumvented with Zektkaliber (unlike Veiler), a chained MST (unlike S-IM, [[Skill Drain]], [[Macro Cosmos]] and [[Fiendish Chain]]), and it's not a half-answer like [[BTH]]/[[Chain Disappearance]]. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 00:15, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
Probally true nowadays but back when I used to have a copy was before they had the ultamite recycler and when Bestiari and Darius were still at 3 so it would have been more effective then. Thats why I said I wasn't sure about it against current builds. I doubt it would be majorly effective but I could see moderatly effective.
+
==A "Best of all worlds" list==
−
[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 05:02, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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* Updating/Redraw Table. Includes Reasons.
+
Is there any chance that we could get an ideal list of cards to side? Maybe rank the top 20 cards to side, in the order of their priority? Like, Light-Imprisoning Mirror can shut down Lightsworns, but aside from them and Hieratics, there's not much reason to side it. Conversely, Effect Veiler and Maxx "C" are listed as "effective" for their sections, yet they work against any and all decks. For people who need help quickly organizing a side deck to combat any and all threats, a small list of cards that are recommended for all side decks would be helpful, since while no one can tell you what cards you HAVE to put in your main deck, a side deck can always run the same 15 cards no matter what deck you use, and will almost always be just as effective. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 14:45, July 30, 2012 (UTC)
−
: [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 07:46, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
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:: Adding [[Rafflesia Seduction]] and [[Jowls of Dark Demise]] to GBs. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 05:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
:The problem with this is what you should side changes quite constantly depending on the area and what's been used in big tournaments.
 +
:Take some of the latest ones for example, people removed sides for Wind-Ups because they weren't doing well at all, no point siding against a deck that has such little showing when there's more important ones right? This in-turn let a few Wind-Up players top at a few tournaments which ofcourse made people start siding against them again.
 +
:And then there's local tournaments where the meta may be GB's, GK's, Machina Gadgets, Lightsworn, etc.
 +
:[[Special:Contributions/124.185.79.184|124.185.79.184]] ([[User talk:124.185.79.184|talk]]) 12:38, August 4, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
[[Discord]] for Flamvell Cat.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 07:13, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
:Then just make a list of all purpose side cards. [[User:IPlay4Fun|IPlay4Fun]] ([[User talk:IPlay4Fun|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/IPlay4Fun|contribs]]) 15:05, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
  
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: Added, and fixed a row thing. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 07:19, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
:I like the idea, it could be useful to build a quick base to a side deck, which can then be slightly adjusted, depending on local meta and such. Cards like gozen match for example, hits not only wind-ups and rabbit, but can hit decks in lower tiers likely to be seen in local 'meta', such as GBs and Six-sams. Obviously if your local meta is straight dark worlds and insectors say, then you can customize the base to suit you (i.e. shadow-imprisoning etc) [[User:Chewbacca The Drummer|Chewbacca The Drummer]] ([[User talk:Chewbacca The Drummer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Chewbacca The Drummer|contribs]]) 17:37, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
 +
::You can do this by sorting the table by Sided Card instead of Deck. At present, The End of Anubis has 9 entries, Chain Disappearance has 10 entries, Necrovalley has 13 entries, D.D. Crow has 14 entries, Skill Drain has 17 entries, D-Fissure has 18 entries, and Macro Cosmos top the list with 19 entries. [[Special:Contributions/98.148.148.43|98.148.148.43]] ([[User talk:98.148.148.43|talk]]) 16:03, August 7, 2012 (UTC)
  
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What about [[G.B. Hunter]] as a counter against Gladiator Beasts? It's surprising to see such obvious tech absent from the list. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] 11:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
==Tier Divisions==
 +
I do not think the divisions on the [[Yu-Gi-Oh!_Tier_List|Tier List]] page should be applied to this page until the creators of that page come to a formal definition of what constitutes a "Tier". [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 20:49, August 20, 2012 (UTC)
  
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: LOL, how could I have forgotten that one >_< [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 11:11, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
==Suggestion==
 +
I've noticed several side deck suggestions are designed to counter strategies that are now rendered obsolete due to said strategy being shut down by the banlist. For example, some cards suggested against Wind-Ups are brought up with the now-defunct Hunter loop in mind. I'm pretty sure the same will apply to several other tournament decks which were forced to change their playstyle after certain banlists are implemented. Should we remove suggestions that no longer apply? --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 04:54, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 +
:Absolutely. Also, I am dismayed to find that someone added "Tier" divisions to the list, again. Which is funny because some of these Decks don't even operate outside the OCG. Maybe I can understand why they seem official since we have a page about them, but there's no reason to have the Tier divisions if we include stuff that's common in the OCG but not here. Particularly amusing is "[[Madolche]]" in the "Tier 2" box when '''it's not even on the list'''. Can we get rid of them too? (And add some sides for Madolche, I guess.) [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 21:03, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
  
−
Then, how about [[Dimension Fortress Weapon]] against Lightworns?--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 12:59, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
Having this information in visual form would really help. I don't have much experience with it so I'm not really able to help in that regard. A Venn diagram maybe?
 +
:I mostly want to eliminate seeing the same card, good against more than one deck, written twice.[[Special:Contributions/72.89.194.84|72.89.194.84]] ([[User talk:72.89.194.84|talk]]) 14:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
  
−
: I wouldn't use that against LSs. It's only effective in the start of the duel when there's nothing in the Graveyard. But Garoth, Jain, Ryko, Honest can all beat it easily. If it's some time later in the duel, when there's quite a bit of things in the Graveyard to use already, they wouldn't care if they can mill or not as they have most of what they need. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 13:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
== Dragon Rulers ==
  
−
[[The End of Anubis]] against... I don't know, anything that uses the graveyard. (Lightsworns, Infernities, Blackwings, especially Vayu, Zombies, REDMD will only be able to ss from the hand, [[Fishborg Blaster]] can't be revived.) [[User:Hide Head Turtle|Hide Head Turtle]] 13:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
+
I really think you should add some good cards to side in against the new Dragon Ruler Archetype. Cards that come to mind are Gozen Match and Mind Drain. [[Special:Contributions/24.8.106.176|24.8.106.176]] ([[User talk:24.8.106.176|talk]]) 23:39, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
  
−
: Something like that?
+
:Not only the Dragon Rulers, the list also needs to have cards against "[[Prophecy]]"/"[[Spellbook]]" and "[[Evilswarm]]" Decks. --[[User:Missign0|Missign0]] ([[User talk:Missign0|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missign0|contribs]]) 02:27, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
−
: Along with Fishborg, Pot of Avarice and Ronintoadin can't be used.
 
−
: REDMD doesn't target when Special Summoning from hand or grave [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 13:56, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
** Has everyone completely forgotten [[Chain Disappearance]] and [[Mind Crush]] my favourite cards when dealing with meta decks [[User:DaywalkerAA|DaywalkerAA]] 12:49, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
+
I don't really know if I'm doing this right and if not Im sorry. But a few good cards that I have found to work against them would be (for example)
 +
'''Effect Monsters:'''
 +
Battle Fader: Free no battle phase on direct attack and useable with backrow unlike gorz
 +
Trifortressops: 2800 ('''''starting''''') defense means no killing it with blasterfor a turn
 +
Swift Scarecrow: Usable with Macro/D Fiss on the field as it doesn't say "to the grave"
 +
Grand Mole: Bounce back drago sac as it doesnt destroy (**vunerable to d prison/other battle traps though)
 +
Veiler +Maxx c: Assuming no macro Veiler either A. Stops big eye, B. Stops Dragosac from making tokens. Either one is a good thing
 +
Droll & Lock Bird: Prevents adding other dragons AND super Rejuv ((I think [http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1130887] ?))
 +
(when it comes out JOTL ((Same as key beetle)) Flying "c" :When your opponnent special summons a monster summon this to their field. They can not xyz (but it is an earth lv 1 so they could still do some synchro shenanigans with it)
 +
(Maybe) Cyber dragon + Chimeratech (at the minimum it would have 3 k attack from the cy dra, dragosac, and 1 token (assuming they poped with it. If not then you got a 4 k chim, that even if warned they 1. Lost drago and tokens and 2. Wasted their only solemn (judg/warn) **CAUTION** do not rely on this because it ''will '''NOT''''' work with macro on the field as chimera says grave specifically
  
−
:: Chain Disappearance is already there, but currently only under against Quickdraw Plants. If there are any other ones, please specify.
+
'''Synchro Monsters'''
−
:: Mind Crush isn't that good... imo. If more people think otherwise, convince me to add a third list, called "cards that can be sided against all themed decks"
+
Crimson Blader: Kill token, eff goes off, ???, Proffit
−
:: [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 12:55, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
::: then how about [[Trap Dustshoot]] [[User:DaywalkerAA|DaywalkerAA]] 12:58, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
−
:::: It's a good card; unless it's against Infernities. Apart from that, it should be considered to be a staple. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 13:08, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
Adding [[Magnificent Dignity]] to GBs and Flamvell Cat. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 13:25, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
+
'''Magic''' (Uhh, I havent really seen any that could work but maybe):
 +
Messenger of peace: Either A. Makes them force a pop, B. Force them to use a lance to attack (IF they even run it. Which is doubtful). And if A. Then you just saved your other back row or monsters (granted to be popped by other monsters but still)
 +
System Down: Only useful for dragosac as it doesnt destroy so it bypasses his natural token protection
 +
One day of Peace: Gives you a turn to stall and take no damage but gives them a card too
 +
Forbidden Dress: Universal destruction protection but attack lose is a pain (mostly to ophion)
  
−
I saw a card the other day that I believe may be effective agaisnt most decks that D.D. Crow would be
+
'''Trap'''
 +
Gozen Match/Rivalry: Both do the same thing essentially but both for different things. Gozen is more of a hard hitter as it prevents them from going into the double dragon instant xyz plays, but it could allow crimson blader in one VERY specific circumstance (Blaster + Flamvel Guard)
 +
SUmmon Limit: Stops them from either 1. Getting the instant xyz or 2. Summoning the tokens (depending if they ''somehow'' '''Bold text'''had a lv 7 already on field)
 +
Imperial Iron Wall: Just stops banishing. Brilliant
 +
[[User:Windwolf777|Windwolf777]] ([[User talk:Windwolf777|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Windwolf777|contribs]]) 11:57, June 28, 2013 (UTC)
  
−
[[Powered Pikeaxe]]
 
  
−
Basically a reusable D.D. crow that also gives a small attack boost after activation. Due to its card nature its not as unstopable as the crow but the longer it survives the more its use becomes at usually at best it would be just as good for that turn.
+
my opinion is
−
[[User:Steelfallenangel|Steelfallenangel]] 17:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
+
for against evilswarm, if u are synchro based deck, u can use [[Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction]] or [[Gem-Knight Pearl]] for a start. if your deck spell & trap are  mostly destroy/ targeting  opponents monster type ( not monster destroyer like Dark armed dragon ), try to change swap cards like mirror force to increase attack power like [[Horn of the Phantom Beast]] ( refer to your deck ). this was based on assuming that evilswarm users are ophion 1 turn lover and relied too much on their immunity [[Infestation Pandemic]]. easy win is to use cards like [[Meklord Army of Granel]] or grandmole. too lazy ? why don't use [[Flying "C"]] ?
  
−
what about guardian sphinx? it screws with everyone, especiallly the flamvells :) --[[User:Bwinggale|Bwinggale]] 21:43, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
+
not much to say about dragons lord from me. gozen match, using compulsory, maxx c, [[Chimeratech Fortress Dragon]] ( drago-sack and it's token are machine ).
  
−
[[Guardian Sphinx]] is too slow.You had to Tribute Set it first and can only use his effect next turn.That said,people could spam [[Gladiator Beast Gyzarus]],[[Judgment Dragon]],[[Dark Armed Dragon]],[[Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier]] or [[Goyo Guardian]] to get rid of it.[[Special:Contributions/115.135.254.56|115.135.254.56]] 01:12, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
+
can't say anything about spellbook cuz the one i fough before in real life is one without using extra deck ( and i don't know which style is the top tier or very strong ) [[User:Gemini 93|Gemini 93]] ([[User talk:Gemini 93|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gemini 93|contribs]]) 14:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  
−
goyo would get bounced and therefore would not work--[[User:Bwinggale|Bwinggale]] 05:03, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
+
==Well, I tried.==
 +
I tried to update the list for 2015, but I can't get all the changes to display.
 +
At any rate, if someone wants to help cull the tips that are outdated, go nuts. [[User:Designless Square|Designless Square]] ([[User talk:Designless Square|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Designless Square|contribs]]) 04:36, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:04, 16 July 2018


Key:
 > 
  Can potentially cripple the deck continuously.  
 +   Can cripple, but that deck contains cards (or a strategy) to save itself.  
 -   Can work against.  

List[edit]

Edit the list

[refresh]

  • This is based on the General/Basic builds of each deck.
  • Also taking into account of the cards run in those decks (e.g. Gadgets run lots of Fissures and Smashing Grounds, so Thunder King Rai-Oh will not Cripple the deck) (e.g. Glads have tricks such as the Book of Moon trick against Skill Drain). However, this does not take into account of the opponent's Side Decks (e.g. ignores 3 Dust Tornados in their Side Deck).
  • Ignoring Staples as they are not Side Deck material.
  • If anyone would like to add (e.g. cards or top tier decks) or change things (e.g. move cards from cripple to works against) please post the ideas below.
  • --  Falzar FZ  talk page  useful stuff    12:31, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

New Decktype[edit]

Maybe we should add a new deck to the decklist: the one that revolves around Reborn Tengu. A good number of Tengu decks made it to the Top 32 in the previous Orlando tournament. Maybe a couple of cards that can be sided-in against them are Archlord Kristya and Royal Oppression, since Tengu decks seem to rely a lot on Special Summoning.

Moja619 (talk • contribs) 17:39, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Vanity's Fiend used in Frog decks.
Debunk
and you could abuse the fact that Reborn Tengu is a Mandatory Trigger. Would be nice if there was some combo that lets you attack all of them continuously and OTK them.... or vice versa, like a Strong monster + Battle Mania. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:04, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


can i ask what cards is best to side against twilight deck ? if i'm not wrong i has not see on the the list Gemini 93 (talk • contribs) 02:39, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

First two that come to mind are Chaos Trap Hole, Koa'ki Meiru Drago (kinda);
other anti Special Summoned cards, other anti Lightsworn cards (depending on the type of Twilight deck). -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:37, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
Well if you are running a simple deck, i would say light and shadow imprisonment Mirror, especially when the foe is using a lightsworn dragon --MSBlinga (talk • contribs) 21:28, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Prohibition against Monarchs and Frogs = Win.BobaFett2 (talk)
What is the best monster to declare?
added Chain Disappearance against Formula Synchron spammers
Rivalry of Warlords against Monarchs (before, if you only control 1 monster, you can Tribute 1 Type for another Type in a Tribute Summon; now you cannot.)
Added section on Dark World.
-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 11:57, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

How come Tengu Synchro still doesn't appear in the Deck list above? It's pretty much dominating the major tournaments since Tengu's release Moja619 (talk • contribs) 21:06, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

It's being discussed, (under the heading "New Decktype"; just a few lines above).
I'm not sure if it's worth starting a new section for them, or add it to the plants section.
Any suggestions on the cards apart from the ones in the plants section and the 2 mentioned above? -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:57, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, i see your point. plant synchro is quite similar to Tengu synchro outside of tengu itself. i don't know if the negation effects of cards like Solemn Warning, Thunder King Rai-Oh and Black Horn of Heaven used on a Special Summoned tengu will prevent it from using its effect. Moja619 (talk • contribs) 02:03, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Thunder King Rai-Oh/Black Horn of Heaven (Summon negation) cards don't work against Special Summons that occur during resolution of an effect. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:44, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Modern Built[edit]

Gladiator Beasts: Solemn Warning
Gladiator Beasts: Dimensional Prison
Warning is definitely a Main Deck card.
Dragons:Different Dimension Ground won't do anything if chained to Trade-In since discarding a monster is a cost. 207.233.120.2 (talk) 21:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Most people maindeck both already.BobaFett2 (talk)

Solemn Warning's a Staple, Dimensional Prison is already listed there.
Was intended to prevent Trade-In from being activated that turn by activating it before hand, like in the Standby Phase, but I guess there's little point in that and you don't know when the opponent would have it, removed Trade-In from the list. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
I think they're already Staples, and are thus not Side Deck Material.
Designless Square (talk • contribs) 20:32, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Stuff[edit]

In the references to Necrovalley, both Gigaplant and REDMD are noted to "not Target". That is no longer an issue. I find it ironic that there's a warning to get Royal Oppression out before Herald of Perfection comes out, but nothing like that in the 6S section.
Also, you listed Ally Salvo as a counter to Celestia and JD. Prolly dittography.

By the way, does Dimensional Fissure hurt Gravekeeper's? 207.233.120.2 (talk) 21:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks.
Removed; was probably thinking of something else.
Not really... I don't think so... -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 01:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Allies of Justice[edit]

Ally of Justice Cycle Reader is awesome against Lightsworns and Agents-it's a double D.D. Crow and it's a Level 3 Tuner monster if you want to use it in a Synchro Summon. Ally of Justice Core Destroyer is a Catastor when you're dueling Agents and Lightsworns that you can summon at no cost.BobaFett2 (talk)

"Cycle Reader" is a great Side, particularly against Fabled. "Core Destroyer" is OK, but Agents can Synchro around it or bomb it with "Hyperion". Lightsworns have a bit of trouble unless they're the Chaos variant (they usually are). 'Least it kills "Wulf".
On an unrelated note, "Chain Disappearance" only works against "Infernity Mirage" in the OCG.
Designless Square (talk • contribs) 20:24, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
Can you explain? I don't see why it can't be used on Infernity Necromancer in the OCGTCG... -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 22:54, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Cards to side against Agents need to be added, as they are now the top deck of the format. I recommend Thunder King Rai-Oh (stops Earth, negates Hyperion/Kristya/BLS if they run it, Sangan if they run BLS), Light-Imprisoning Mirror (stops everything), Leeching the Light, (gain major ATK for game, was popular at the last YCS), Dimensional Fissure/Macro Cosmos (nothing in grave, no fuel for Hyperion, nothing to drop Kristya, nothing for BLS, Sangan doesn't search). Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 05:57, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Grave of the Super Ancient Organism stops Hyperion, BLS, Kristya, and Trishula as well as the occasional Stardust. Chain Disappearance rids you of pesky Earths and Shine Balls. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 12:50, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

I can't believe I forgot this: side Zombie Master against Zombies. Paladin of the Cursed Dragon works as well although not necessarily as effectively. Of course, Puppet Plant works as well. Kycoo stops Book of Life if I'm not mistaken. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 23:01, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Big Burn against Infernities, or does that not work? Ally of Justice Quarantine isn't bad against Agents (Vulnerable only to Honest and Jupiter, and not even BLS). BF2 Talk Deck Guides 23:25, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Big Burn worked pre-Leviair, but now it might actually help them. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 01:55, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, it's as effective as ever-unless they have Tour Guide, they have no access to Leviair once their Necromancers are Banished. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 02:11, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

And all good Infernity decks are running Tour Guide. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 19:19, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

I meant that they have to draw it, since they'll be topdecking. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 20:40, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
Definitely a counter.
I should have been clearer. "Infernity Mirage" cannot be stopped by "Chain Disappearance" in the TCG because it is no longer a valid target after the cost for its effect is carried out (with Priority).
"Zombie World" works all right against Agents. It stops Kristya, keeps Hyperion from bombing anything, blocks the effect of Jupiter, and crushes Sanctuary if they're using it (sillyheads). Doesn't stop Venus though.
Designless Square (talk • contribs) 20:06, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
Are you saying Big Burn is a counter? BF2 Talk Deck Guides 20:39, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, my mistake, I misread it as you can't use it in the OCG for some reason, when you meant you can't use it in TCG. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 02:35, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Mind Crush really trips up Machina Gadget decks, especially those that use the Gadget chain with Ultimate Offering for Xyz. --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 13:03, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Dark World[edit]

  • "Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer" is good for blocking Gates and Smog, and fiddles with the Graveyard. He dies to Raven and Snoww+, though.
  • Maybe you could add the caveat "bypassed by Dark World Lightning"; that card makes Debunk very hard to use.
Designless Square (talk • contribs) 15:04, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Rabbit / Evolsar[edit]

Any Ideas to stop this new threat? Ruicub (talk • contribs) 12:07, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Imperial Iron Wall. More Effect Veiler. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 17:37, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Use Dark Trap Hole and Giant Trap Hole to counter rescue rabbit, it should work quite effectively seen as it was originally desinged to counter Rescue Cat. Karma Cut can annoy rescue rabbit although he he may re summmoned later with Leviair the Sea Dragon

[email protected] (talk • contribs) 16:09, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

I sided Lava Golem during Six Samurai format. I plan to do the same if the Rabbit Dino deck becomes big. It won't, though. It can't compare to Plant Synchro. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 17:59, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Any more advice to counter Rabbit / Evolzar? 24.0.144.144 (talk) 00:57, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Imperial Iron Wall works. Maxx "C" is pretty effective just to draw cards. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 01:10, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
No one's mentioned "Summon Limit"? Also, "Rivalry of Warlords" pretty much locks Xyzs.
Designless Square (talk • contribs) 01:55, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Why has nobody mentioned Mirror of Oaths? I side deck two nowadays on DN to stop Rabbit and GB. Menace13 (talk • contribs) at 04:03, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nobody seems to realise that Gozen Match just kills off Dino Rabbit. I think a Blackwing-Gozen Deck could easily win, as could a Dragunity-Gozen Deck. Vyomo

Dark World[edit]

I have a sugggestion for side decking against dark worlds. You can side deck Appropriate , so that whenever they draw a card you also draw 2 cards, this can give you very good hand adavantage ,and it can be combined with Maxx "C" to get more extra cards.


[email protected] (talk • contribs) 14:04, November 25, 2011 (UTC)


Exodia[edit]

For Exodia, can we put Exchange to "cripples the deck completely", and add Amazoness Chain Master (not as good since you have to get it killed, but still useable). Battlemaniac (talk • contribs) 16:44, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

BF2's Additions[edit]

4-Starred Ladybug of Doom against Gadgets, Gravekeeper's, and Gladiator Beasts.

Steelswarm is actually pretty good, and if added, Blackwing - Jin the Rain Shadow is an side card (Catastor against them). If I'm not mistaken, Des Donut hurts them as well. Infestation Wave actually hurts them as you can return their monster to their hand and destroy their card.

Chain Burn is missing - Rainbow Life, Des Wombat, Lifeforce Harmonizer, and Prime Material Dragon are all good sides against them. Vanity's Emptiness is also incredibly against them as it even stops their draw cards.

Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell, while a -1, will almost certainly paralyze Dragunities and hurt Gravekeeper's. Field Barrier hurts them as well, preventing them from playing Field Spell Cards.

Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo is a godsend against Fabled - protect it with a Trap or two and you can't lose.

Huge Revolution Reversal is good against Scrap (Scrap Dragon).

Hunter of Black Feathers is good against any mono-Attribute Archetype - Agents, Sabers, Dark World, etc.

Infinite Dismissal against Plants.

Karakuri Klock works against Karakuri.

More to come. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 18:00, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

King Tiger Wanghu stops Mystical Shine Balls and destroys Earth, as well as destroying Kageki/Kagemusha/Elder (which cripples Six Samurai), destroys most X-Sabers, destroys Infernities (other than Archfiend), hurts Plants/Naturia, devastates Inzektor Wind-Ups, makes Treeborn Frog useless, etc.

Rescue Laggia is missing, Mirror of Oaths, Smashing Horn, and Bottomless Trap Hole are all effective side cards, as is Imperial Iron Wall.

Snowman Eater is good against Miracle Gemini.

Widespread Dud is bait against X-Sabers and Scraps that gets rid of their cards. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 19:04, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

Made some modifications, more to come. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 19:26, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

I think you meant Karakuri Trick House.
Rivalry of Warlords and Gozen Match are pretty good against Rabbit and Wind-Ups. D.D. Crow works okay against Wind-Ups and Inzektors if you can cut their loops short. They can go for Leviair if you mispredict and they're still holding Gallis or Spell Striker, though. 24.199.53.194 (talk) 21:14, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

More cards to cripple Dragunities[edit]

Could you side in a Dark Highlander against a Dragunity deck since it stops all Synchro Summons and can take out Equip Cards and burn for each? Not to mention having a 2800 atk level 7 beatstick on the fieldJa1lbreakr0cks (talk • contribs) 17:20, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Newer Archetypes[edit]

Some I'm thinking of:
Rabbit:
Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter.
Penguin Soldier.
Snowman Eater, etc.
Not many run Dolkka or try to get it out, most go for Laggia which is only really vulnerable to flip effect monsters or monsters already on the field.
Summon Limit, but it doesn't solve the first turn problem.
Overlay Owl but they would negate its summon anyway.

Inzektors:
Effect Veiler.
D.D. Crow.
Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror.
Consecrated Light (only if they have no hornet equipped, so not that great).
Necrovalley (not extremely good but decent).
Safe Zone (they pop it they lose a monster, not amazing though).
Fiendish Chain.
Chain Disappearance.

Wind-Ups:
Maxx "C".
Effect Veiler.
D.D. Crow?
Regenerating Mummy possibly, if they send it to the grave you add it back to your hand, they're likely to hit it constantly when the hand gets low. Not bad to draw into too.
Neko Mane King possibly, if they hit it their turn ends, risky though, bad to draw into too. Could also be a side against Dark Worlds.
Since these are a first turn deck at the moment I won't list cards that need to be already on the field.

Hieroglyphs: (I don't know much about these)
Maxx "C".
I'm not sure if Effect Veiler does much against them.
Zombie World, tribute summon quite a lot (although that might be tribute to summon), and it stops quite a few Dragon specific cards.
Mask of Restrict.
Light-Imprisoning Mirror, most of them are light.
Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror, it'd stop their REDMD.
Summon Limit, they spam a lot.
King Tiger Wanghu since they spam 0 attack monsters quite often.
Any negate special summon cards like Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo.

Ninjas:
Thunder King Rai-Oh, they add to the hand often.
Effect Veiler can really hurt their Upstart Golden Ninja.
Royal Decree can hurt, but they don't really need Ninjitsu Art of Super-Transformation to run, Xyz spamming with dead traps would work almost as well.
Warrior Elimination, they don't spam much though.

Any other new top tier(ish) archetype I'm forgetting?
121.222.228.13 (talk) 04:10, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Against Rabbits, you're better off with Spirit Reaper, Arcana Force 0 - The Fool, Marshmallon, and, believe it or not, Wave-Motion Cannon. Dolkka can negate the Flip Effect monsters making them less useful. Lava Golem is also an insanely good side against them.

Hieroglyphs don't have to use REDMD, so strike Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror. Wanghu isn't very effective as they'll kill it with either an effect or by battle (their 0 attack monsters would come out after they've destroyed him). Leeching the Light is decent against Hieroglyphs as they have high ATK monsters.

For Ninjas, Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror isn't a bad side - it stops Tour Guide and Hanzo. BF2 Talk Deck Guides 14:19, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I completely forgot about Hanzo being dark. And why would Wave-Motion Cannon be a good side against rabbit? I'm not quite getting that. Is it because if they don't negate it they could get big damage, if they do they lose materials? Because if that's the case wouldn't cards like Smashing Ground or Dimensional Prison be better?123.211.144.181 (talk) 08:11, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

If you watch ! Xcloud (some number of spaces) play on DN, you'll see that he sides everything against Rabbits. He does extremely well against Rabbits by siding in a bunch of wall monsters (The Fool, Reaper, Marshmallon) an Wave-Motion Cannon. If I'm not mistaken, they don't run a lot of Spell/Trap removal... BF2 Talk Deck Guides 17:33, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

I can see why the stall monsters would work. Their only real destruction cards would be Dark Hole, maybe 1 or 2 Smashing Ground or Dimensional Prison, and I don't think you'll be attacking much with the stall monsters. But Wave-Motion Cannon still seems iffy to me, Laggia can negate it if they wish, but I guess it'd make them think a bit more if they want to use those solemns that have set later too.123.211.144.181 (talk) 08:18, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

They don't use a lot of backrow destruction and Laggia usually has better things to negate (and if they negate it, you're free to use Dark Hole or another good card). BF2 Talk Deck Guides 13:45, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

What about Mask of Restrict for Hieratics? I feel as if it would be a > or + card on the above list, because most Hieratic plays and means of destroying cards come from tribute effects. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 14:27, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

+ would be appropriate. It shuts down the engine, but like Macro Cosmos and Necrovalley it's vulnerable to Tefnuit -> A Wingbeat of Giant Dragon. 207.233.120.2 (talk) 00:01, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Dino rabbits,Wind-up and Inzektors[edit]

This list should have sections for those 3 i have some cards : inzektors:

  • necrovalley:stops dragonfly and others from equipping hornet from graveyard.
  • d.d. Crow:when they try to get hornet from the grave,chain and LOL at their dragonfly unassisted
  • different dimension ground:chain this to anything they use to dump hornet in grave.
  • effect veiler:use to stop inzektors from equipping anything.
  • macro cosmos:unlike dimensional fissure,this works on spells

LG talk My own Guides 16:03, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Having played Wind-Ups, I find it horribly injurious when the opponent springs a Bottomless Trap Hole on Zenmaity. Breaks the loop, leaves the Wind-Up player struggling for a turn. Oh, wait, do you guys still have the Priority ruling? Guess it won't work that way for the TCG. At least it still can be used on Shark.
Effect Veiler is also particularly useful in defusing Zenmaity and Rat. Especially Rat, since they will be left with a monster with 600 ATK in Attack Position just asking to be beaten in.

--Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 14:06, March 5, 2012 (UTC)

In the list above, Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell is listed twice for Gravekeeper's (with different ratings of effectiveness). Also, how about Consecrated Light against Steelswarms and Royal Decree against Chain Burn? 207.233.120.2 (talk) 18:57, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

I just realized, Gozen Match and Rivalry of Warlords can both cripple Wind-Ups, right? 99.165.192.113 (talk) 00:50, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, and they cripple Dino Rabbit as well. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 00:52, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

--68.41.75.225 (talk) 08:55, April 2, 2012 (UTC)I have found Icy Crevice to be a interesting card to side agaisnt insector players. It will hurt them for playing hornet and has the potential to break up loops. In addition after its been played once the oppenent will begin to act more cautiously around single backfields. Just a card not widely expected that can throw insecktors off their game.

If they shot your monster before shooting your back row, they are being silly. Which reminds me: "Wild Tornado" and "Security Orb".207.233.120.2 (talk) 17:35, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

We need to update the table at the top for the current meta. Someone please do it. Its really accessible to all users and its a good list with good explanations.

Roughpuppet (talk • contribs) 10:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

With the recent changes to Ignition Priority (now "Fast Effect Timing", i.e. nonexistent for Ignition Effect Monsters), "Effect Veiler" becomes a viable side against Dino Rabbit. Designless Square (talk • contribs) 18:32, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
For the record, I haven't played for a long time, I'm not sure about the current meta, or what to use against it.
I've mentioned a couple of times that anyone can edit the list as long as they know what they're doing (follow proper table syntax); or post below if they're not sure about adding to the table.
-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 23:45, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

ok.. i'll get some small suggestions on the most common cards to use against the meta decks.

Dino-Rabbits gozen/rivalry. different attibutes and types, rabbit being earth/beast. rest being dino/ earth or water or fire. Xyz monsters are dragon/fire.

effect veiler, post priority ruling, priority was able to cause it to use its effect before veiler so it was off the field before veiler activates. also useful to negate evolsar dollka if one feels like doing so. forces them to waste material.

chain disappearance, better post priority. similar reason to above, though it will leave the field first. Also able to use against tour guide, another staple against this deck.

spirit reaper/marshmallon, good stallking monster cards, do not activate, does not need to be normal or special summoned(set) thus cannot be negated when attacked. good stall card to stop them from beating you down.


Inzektors: shadow imprisoning, all dark, activate on field in order to control. not unlike reasons for infernity

macro cosmos, does not allow them to send hornet or any other equipped inzektor card to the graveyard. same thing as shadow imprisoning.

effect veiler, generally good at negating their effects of all monsters

chain disappearance, able to banish a dragonfly or hornet if they get summoned. stops their special summoning mechanic and causes them to not be able to swarm.

Wind-ups, gozen/rivalry. all different types and attributes. no explanation needed

cyber dragon/chimeratech. wind-up XYZ cards are all machine type, thus a good card to counter. to zenmaines and zenmeity.

effect veiler. able to stop wind up loop during first turn loop

maxx C. negates the effects of wind up loop, by drawing more cards then they make you discard.


There are definitely more cards to side deck against these and other matchups but this is the general kick start to the big 3 decks this format. effect veiler may be a general card as people main deck it as well. but always good to mention.

other deck types inc darkworlds, heroes. main meta decks that have not been mentioned above.

Roughpuppet (talk • contribs) 14:19, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, read the original comments Falzar made.
"Ignoring Staples as they are not Side Deck material." Under Staples:
Effect Monsters

  • Maxx C
  • Effect Veiler
Perhaps Maxx "C" shouldn't be listed. But certain OTK Decks like Dark Gaia OTK and Empty Jar will end the game if your opponent drops "Heavy Storm" or "Trap Stun" and you don't have Veiler. Maybe Glads or Zombies don't need Veiler against most things, but there are times when it's the only viable option. Designless Square (talk • contribs) 17:27, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
But the thing is they're a main deck card where you side the rest, they aren't cards you'd side if you don't main them.
121.222.167.78 (talk) 05:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, against Dino Rabbit, I would suggest side decking Black Ray Lancer and Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon,not to mention Neo Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon, whose overwhelming effect can destroy any Dino decks. I would also recommend the forgotten Majestic Star Dragon, who can destroy a Dino Rabbit deck in seconds If you aren't maining Maxx "C"/Veiler you probably shouldn't be siding them either.
60.228.86.44 (talk) 13:57, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Lancer and Galaxy-Eyes most likely won't make it to the field, and Lancer only has 2100 ATK anyways. "Majestic Star Dragon" is unlikely to land as well, and won't be around on your opponent's turn.
What I meant about Veiler is that a Deck which normally has no need for Veilers, is compelled to run them to protect itself from what would otherwise be an unpreventable OTK. Ancient history.
"Trap Hole" works nicely against Inzektors, killing Dragonfly, Centipede, and Hopper. It doesn't hit Hornet, Ladybug or DAD, but it can't be circumvented with Zektkaliber (unlike Veiler), a chained MST (unlike S-IM, Skill Drain, Macro Cosmos and Fiendish Chain), and it's not a half-answer like BTH/Chain Disappearance. Designless Square (talk • contribs) 00:15, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

A "Best of all worlds" list[edit]

Is there any chance that we could get an ideal list of cards to side? Maybe rank the top 20 cards to side, in the order of their priority? Like, Light-Imprisoning Mirror can shut down Lightsworns, but aside from them and Hieratics, there's not much reason to side it. Conversely, Effect Veiler and Maxx "C" are listed as "effective" for their sections, yet they work against any and all decks. For people who need help quickly organizing a side deck to combat any and all threats, a small list of cards that are recommended for all side decks would be helpful, since while no one can tell you what cards you HAVE to put in your main deck, a side deck can always run the same 15 cards no matter what deck you use, and will almost always be just as effective. The Pope 14:45, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

The problem with this is what you should side changes quite constantly depending on the area and what's been used in big tournaments.
Take some of the latest ones for example, people removed sides for Wind-Ups because they weren't doing well at all, no point siding against a deck that has such little showing when there's more important ones right? This in-turn let a few Wind-Up players top at a few tournaments which ofcourse made people start siding against them again.
And then there's local tournaments where the meta may be GB's, GK's, Machina Gadgets, Lightsworn, etc.
124.185.79.184 (talk) 12:38, August 4, 2012 (UTC)
Then just make a list of all purpose side cards. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 15:05, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
I like the idea, it could be useful to build a quick base to a side deck, which can then be slightly adjusted, depending on local meta and such. Cards like gozen match for example, hits not only wind-ups and rabbit, but can hit decks in lower tiers likely to be seen in local 'meta', such as GBs and Six-sams. Obviously if your local meta is straight dark worlds and insectors say, then you can customize the base to suit you (i.e. shadow-imprisoning etc) Chewbacca The Drummer (talk • contribs) 17:37, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
You can do this by sorting the table by Sided Card instead of Deck. At present, The End of Anubis has 9 entries, Chain Disappearance has 10 entries, Necrovalley has 13 entries, D.D. Crow has 14 entries, Skill Drain has 17 entries, D-Fissure has 18 entries, and Macro Cosmos top the list with 19 entries. 98.148.148.43 (talk) 16:03, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Tier Divisions[edit]

I do not think the divisions on the Tier List page should be applied to this page until the creators of that page come to a formal definition of what constitutes a "Tier". Designless Square (talk • contribs) 20:49, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Suggestion[edit]

I've noticed several side deck suggestions are designed to counter strategies that are now rendered obsolete due to said strategy being shut down by the banlist. For example, some cards suggested against Wind-Ups are brought up with the now-defunct Hunter loop in mind. I'm pretty sure the same will apply to several other tournament decks which were forced to change their playstyle after certain banlists are implemented. Should we remove suggestions that no longer apply? --Gadjiltron (talk • contribs) 04:54, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely. Also, I am dismayed to find that someone added "Tier" divisions to the list, again. Which is funny because some of these Decks don't even operate outside the OCG. Maybe I can understand why they seem official since we have a page about them, but there's no reason to have the Tier divisions if we include stuff that's common in the OCG but not here. Particularly amusing is "Madolche" in the "Tier 2" box when it's not even on the list. Can we get rid of them too? (And add some sides for Madolche, I guess.) Designless Square (talk • contribs) 21:03, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Having this information in visual form would really help. I don't have much experience with it so I'm not really able to help in that regard. A Venn diagram maybe?

I mostly want to eliminate seeing the same card, good against more than one deck, written twice.72.89.194.84 (talk) 14:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Dragon Rulers[edit]

I really think you should add some good cards to side in against the new Dragon Ruler Archetype. Cards that come to mind are Gozen Match and Mind Drain. 24.8.106.176 (talk) 23:39, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Not only the Dragon Rulers, the list also needs to have cards against "Prophecy"/"Spellbook" and "Evilswarm" Decks. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 02:27, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

I don't really know if I'm doing this right and if not Im sorry. But a few good cards that I have found to work against them would be (for example) Effect Monsters: Battle Fader: Free no battle phase on direct attack and useable with backrow unlike gorz Trifortressops: 2800 (starting) defense means no killing it with blasterfor a turn Swift Scarecrow: Usable with Macro/D Fiss on the field as it doesn't say "to the grave" Grand Mole: Bounce back drago sac as it doesnt destroy (**vunerable to d prison/other battle traps though) Veiler +Maxx c: Assuming no macro Veiler either A. Stops big eye, B. Stops Dragosac from making tokens. Either one is a good thing Droll & Lock Bird: Prevents adding other dragons AND super Rejuv ((I think [1] ?)) (when it comes out JOTL ((Same as key beetle)) Flying "c" :When your opponnent special summons a monster summon this to their field. They can not xyz (but it is an earth lv 1 so they could still do some synchro shenanigans with it) (Maybe) Cyber dragon + Chimeratech (at the minimum it would have 3 k attack from the cy dra, dragosac, and 1 token (assuming they poped with it. If not then you got a 4 k chim, that even if warned they 1. Lost drago and tokens and 2. Wasted their only solemn (judg/warn) **CAUTION** do not rely on this because it will NOT work with macro on the field as chimera says grave specifically

Synchro Monsters Crimson Blader: Kill token, eff goes off, ???, Proffit

Magic (Uhh, I havent really seen any that could work but maybe): Messenger of peace: Either A. Makes them force a pop, B. Force them to use a lance to attack (IF they even run it. Which is doubtful). And if A. Then you just saved your other back row or monsters (granted to be popped by other monsters but still) System Down: Only useful for dragosac as it doesnt destroy so it bypasses his natural token protection One day of Peace: Gives you a turn to stall and take no damage but gives them a card too Forbidden Dress: Universal destruction protection but attack lose is a pain (mostly to ophion)

Trap Gozen Match/Rivalry: Both do the same thing essentially but both for different things. Gozen is more of a hard hitter as it prevents them from going into the double dragon instant xyz plays, but it could allow crimson blader in one VERY specific circumstance (Blaster + Flamvel Guard) SUmmon Limit: Stops them from either 1. Getting the instant xyz or 2. Summoning the tokens (depending if they somehow Bold texthad a lv 7 already on field) Imperial Iron Wall: Just stops banishing. Brilliant Windwolf777 (talk • contribs) 11:57, June 28, 2013 (UTC)


my opinion is for against evilswarm, if u are synchro based deck, u can use Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction or Gem-Knight Pearl for a start. if your deck spell & trap are mostly destroy/ targeting opponents monster type ( not monster destroyer like Dark armed dragon ), try to change swap cards like mirror force to increase attack power like Horn of the Phantom Beast ( refer to your deck ). this was based on assuming that evilswarm users are ophion 1 turn lover and relied too much on their immunity Infestation Pandemic. easy win is to use cards like Meklord Army of Granel or grandmole. too lazy ? why don't use Flying "C" ?

not much to say about dragons lord from me. gozen match, using compulsory, maxx c, Chimeratech Fortress Dragon ( drago-sack and it's token are machine ).

can't say anything about spellbook cuz the one i fough before in real life is one without using extra deck ( and i don't know which style is the top tier or very strong ) Gemini 93 (talk • contribs) 14:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I tried.[edit]

I tried to update the list for 2015, but I can't get all the changes to display. At any rate, if someone wants to help cull the tips that are outdated, go nuts. Designless Square (talk • contribs) 04:36, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

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