Forum:Duel Monsters I promos

The justification given on the trivia pages for why the Duel Monsters I placing promo cards are banned given on their trivia pages is rubbish. Even if I grant the ridiculous logic that they cannot be Summoned because the original print trumps subsequent prints, this does not mean that they are illegal.

For those unaware, at the 1999 Duel Monsters I tournament, Normal Monster versions of 4 Ritual Monsters were given away to the top four placing players (one per player): Black Luster Soldier, Zera the Mant, Super War-Lion, and Fiend's Mirror. These cards were printed on steel plates, and have never been reprinted in any form.

Currently, the trivia pages state the following:

The four prize cards from the first Duel Monsters Tournament are illegal in official play as they are Ritual Monsters that have no means of being Summoned. The "replica" mark — printed in place of the usual eight-digit passcode — on early Japanese OCG cards indicates that it is not the first release of that card. Had these four cards been the first printing of these monsters, it is possible that they could have been legal as Tribute monsters; however, since they were not, and the first release was as a Ritual Monster — not as a Normal Monster — they can neither be Tribute Summoned (since they are Ritual Monsters) nor Ritual Summoned (since they have no Summoning text that specifies how they can be Ritual Summoned). They are therefore unplayable.

Before I even break down the flawed arguments here, two of the premises are wrong. Firstly, "Black Luster Soldier" does not contain the Limitation Text "Replica". Secondly, it was the first printing of the monsters; none of them saw a print as a Ritual Monster until Premium Pack 2, which released later during the same year the cards were released.

But even if they had been printed as a Ritual Monster previously, the reasoning still doesn't make sense. Newer prints of cards trump older prints ("You should always use the most recent printing of a card, because that text is the most accurate."), so it wouldn't have mattered; after the Ritual Monsters were released, they would have been either able to be played as if they were a Ritual Monster ("If a card has errata, you should always play the card as if it had the corrected text, even though your actual card might have older text") or treated as two versions of the same card like the two versions of "Ancient Fairy Dragon" are (both the original and manga-inspired versions are legal, and neither erratas the other)—the latter being the more likely situation.

But even if somehow they were treated as separate cards like "Ancient Fairy Dragon" rather than errata and were unable to be Summoned as they were still treated as Ritual Monsters with no Ritual Summoning condition, it wouldn't necessarily mean you couldn't Ritual Summon them; in reality, the Ritual Summoning condition is nothing more than a tip to the player as to which card they need to Summon it, not an actual gameplay mechanic. "Black Luster Ritual" states:

This card is used to Ritual Summon "Black Luster Soldier". You must also Tribute monsters from your hand or field whose total Levels equal 8 or more.

Nowhere does it specify that "Black Luster Soldier" must be a Ritual Monster; you can argue that only Ritual Monsters can be Ritual Summoned, but even then the whole reason that "Black Luster Soldier" supposedly cannot be Normal Summoned is that it is actually a Ritual Monster. It's also a valid target for "Earth Chant" and "Advanced Ritual Art", which also both work if it is considered a Ritual Monster.

But even if these monsters cannot be Summoned in any way at all, it still isn't an illegal card. In the TCG, "Blue-Eyes Shining Dragon" was released before "Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon" was, but it was still legal to put in a Deck, just unplayable. "Black Luster Soldier" would actually have a purpose in a Deck even if it couldn't be Summoned: as a Fusion Material Monster for "Dragon Master Knight".

Furthermore, an illegal card is not determined by unplayability: illegal cards must Limitation Text that indicates as such, or be otherwise specifically stated to be by Konami.

However, having said all that, it wouldn't surprise me if the cards weren't tournament legal, but for completely different reasons to what is provided. My guess is that due to being printed on steel plates, they would be considered marked cards as you could differentiate them from other cards by feel. However, without actual official confirmation that they are illegal, and official confirmation that they are illegal because they are considered marked cards, neither of these things should be stated on any page (and the cards should certainly not be disambiguated on the Ritual Monsters' pages as "the Illegal Normal Monster version of this card"). --SnorlaxMonster 13:55, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

I need more time to think over your argument, but the manga version of "Ancient Fairy Dragon" will not have the same name as its anime counterpart; that was just a mess-up on the part of English Viz media, since they didn't know about the anime version. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 14:07, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

I did miss that the two Ancient Fairy Dragons have different Japanese names. However, I think everything else I put forth is still sound, regardless. --SnorlaxMonster 14:13, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

So actually, it turns out that there is a Black Luster Soldier with the limitation text "Replica" (File:BlackLusterSoldier-T1-JP-UR-RP.jpg). Contrary to what the trivia section states, the "Replica" limitation text means just that—the cards are replicas of the actual ones that were given away. We just happen to have the image of the original Black Luster Soldier card as well the image of the replica card. --SnorlaxMonster 18:42, October 2, 2013 (UTC)