Forum:Reverse Nerf--Change is Coming?!

With the upcoming generosity of Konami, them potentially re-releasing banned or threatening cards, I would like to propose this concept. Seeing as "Dark Strike Fighter" and "Catapult Turtle" are returning with "once per turn" clauses, it is obvious that Konami wishes to correct past/future mistakes. Maybe, this generosity can extend from weakening cards...to boosting them? Now, I know this is pure optimism, but they have that power. And, this is what this discussion is about: realistic (and possibly some hopeful) ways to repair past mistakes. Let us start off with two well-remembered cards from the anime that just didn't make the cut..."The Seal of Orichalcos" and "The Winged Dragon of Ra"... Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 03:37, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

The Seal and the God Unite!

"The Seal of Orichalcos"
Field Spell
When this card is activated: Destroy all Special Summoned monsters you control. All monsters you control gain 500 ATK. Once per turn, this card cannot be destroyed by card effects. While you control 2 or more face-up Attack Position monsters, your opponent cannot target your monster(s) with the lowest ATK for an attack. You cannot Special Summon monsters from your Extra Deck.

Besides rearranging some order, I did what this card always needed: removed the "once per Duel" clause. This card is just fine without it. "Mystical Space Typhoon" can stop it just fine by destroying it before it even hits the field. Actually, we could further improve it by removing both destruction effect and Extra Deck lock-out for a different destruction effect: "When this card is activated, OR a monster is Special Summoned to your side of the field: Destroy all Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz Monsters you control." This would essentially promote Pendulum Monsters, which are not native to the Extra Deck. In addition, the OPD clause could also stay, if it receives "Super Fusion"-based protection as well: "Cards and effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation."

"The Winged Dragon of Ra"
(Divine-Beast-Type/DIVINE/Level 10/ATK ?/DEF ?)
Requires 3 Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set). This card's Normal Summon cannot be negated. When Normal Summoned, other cards and effects cannot be activated. During the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard. When this card is Normal or Special Summoned: You can pay Life Points so that you only have 100 left; this card gains ATK and DEF equal to the amount of Life Points paid. You can pay 1000 Life Points, then target 1 monster on the field; destroy that target. If this card was Special Summoned, it gains this effect.
● Battle damage inflicted to your opponent by this card is halved.

In reality, I would completely alter the effect, but since this is minor alterations...I had to be light. I allowed Special Summoning. But, if it is Special Summoned, all damage is halved. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 03:37, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

I can see a change to "Ra", even though it wasn't banned (a certain person keeps telling me the "no Special Summon" bit was because Konami was afraid of interactions between it and "Zombie World"; free Special Summons with "Book of Life", eh). That, or the upcoming "Ra's Disciple" somehow makes it better.

"The Seal of Orichalcos" needs no change; aren't you satisfied with the upcoming Field Spell Card rule that allows 2 Field Spells to be face-up simultaneously? Also, not many people are willing to spend at least 2 cards on destroying "The Seal", unless one of them happens to be a field nuke. The "destroy all SSed monsters upon activation" is an acceptable drawback. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 04:21, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Ra's main attraction in the anime was it's ability to be Special Summoned, followed by his strength gained from Tributed monsters. If they were so worried about Ra, they should have done this: "Requires 3 Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set). This card's Normal Summon cannot be negated. When Normal Summoned, cards and effects cannot be activated. During the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard. This card gains the total original ATK and DEF of the monsters Tributed for its Tribute Summon. At the start of your Main Phase 1 after this face-up card on the field was destroyed and sent to the Graveyard: You can discard 1 Spell Card; Special Summon this card from the Graveyard. When you do: Activate 1 of these effects. ● Pay 1000 Life Points; destroy all face-up monsters your opponent controls. ● Pay Life Points so that you only have 100 left; this card gains ATK and DEF equal to the amount of Life Points paid."

Also, I don't mind The Seal, or its Extra Deck hate. And, I'm ecstatic that the Dual-Field ruling is coming soon to the TCG/OCG. I just think that The Seal should undergo two tiny changes: "When this card is activated, OR when a monster is Special Summoned to your side of the field: Destroy all Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz Monsters you control. All monsters you control gain 500 ATK. Once per turn, this card cannot be destroyed by card effects. While you control 2 or more face-up Attack Position monsters, your opponent cannot target your monster(s) with the lowest ATK for an attack. Cards and effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation. You can only activate "The Seal of Orichalcos" once per Duel." You see, Pendulum Monsters are going to be a big push on Konami's part, as you know. So, I think removing the complete removal of Extra Deck access is unnecessary. But, the attack on native Extra Deck dwellers is. So, if they removed the nuke and lock-out for a simple anti-Fusion/Synchro/Xyz clause, that would be very good. And, the only reason why I'm not happy about the "once per Duel" part on its own is that if its MST'd and you have another copy in your Deck...you're not in good shape. It's so easily countered. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 04:58, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

The dual-field might not come for a while.

"To All Our Players,

You may have recently become aware to some changes in the basic rules of Dueling that are being adopted in Japan and other OCG territories. At this time, there are no changes to announce for all TCG territories. The next update to the rules will occur this summer when we’ll be introducing a brand new type of card to the game that blurs the line between monsters and spells! We hope you’ll look forward to this very exciting Dueling development!

Happy Dueling!

Your Friends at Konami Digital Entertainment"

That statement comes straight from Konami's news feed on their United States/Canada page. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 14:00, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly, and with the dramatic changes made to Dark Strike Fighter (now working only during the Main Phase 1), they mind as well redo some other old cards to vetter resemble their anime effects. Ra is in need of dramatic alterations. Like I said, if it can only gain its secondary effects when it Special Summons itself, that is not at all over-powered. And, The Seal may still be used only once per Duel, but I think it needs some protection upon activation. And, the complete Extra Deck lockout is unnecessary. Being anti-Fusion/Synchro/Xyz makes more sense, especially with Pendulum Monsters coming out and all. Those are literally the only cards that I think deserve any form of change to better reflect the anime and improve as cards overall. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 17:59, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Like I said, there is no reason to change "The Seal". It's good enough as is. If you're trying to use the "make it similar to anime" part, that's what they were trying to do when they made the card; they even made a Konami article on its design. Look at "Orichalcos Shunoros". There is no way it will receive an effect change to be more anime-like, it's done for. However, releasing "Orichalcos Kyutora" could enable an alternative mehtod to Summon "Shunoros", and give it bonus effects.

So, would you actually see Konami changing "The Seal"? Or is it just wishful thinking? If you actually think they're going to change the effect of an already-acceptable card, you've got another thing coming. =/ However, either "Ra" will receive an effect change, or they'll fix it with "Ra's Disciple". --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 18:13, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

No, I agree that The Seal reflects the anime quite well. All I'm saying is that they should make it to where it can hit the field without MST ruining its chance to stay, being that its protection effect cannot work until The Seal successfully hits the field. Hence, I suggested a "Super Poly"-based activation shield. Though, the anti-Fusion/Synchro/Xyz effect is truly wishful thinking. I was just contemplating the idea of reworking The Seal so it doesn't hinder Pendulum Summoning, which it does as of right now, and Konami wouldn't want it to do that and mind as well alter it to anti-Fusion/Synchro/Xyz while they're at it. And, no matter what "Ra's Disciple" does, it won't change the fact that Ra can't be Special Summoned...its main gimmick... Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 18:25, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

...... Where on earth did you hear that? No, whenever a Spell/Trap Card is activated, it is automatically on the field. But for whatever Konami reasons, if its activation is negated, it reverts to a state of "not being on the field", and being destroyed. So, "The Seal" is only vulnerable to cards that negate activations like "Dark Bribe" and "Magic Jammer". In any other case, it will take 2 card destruction effects to destroy "The Seal". --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 18:45, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, The Seal hasn't resolved yet, so if MST is chained to The Seal, it's destroyed. See here: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=1086749 Therefore, they should keep The Seal's effects and just remove the once per Duel restriction. If their reasoning was because The Seal was only used once each Duel, that same reasoning could be applied to the Gods, as there was only one of each in the anime. Ironically, there were multiple "Seal of Orichalcos" cards. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 22:23, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

I think Konami's reasoning for the "Once per Duel . . . " was to avoid people simply playing another one if their first one was destroyed by their opponent. The Seal is very difficult to remove once it has resolved, and not many people want to waste the MST on a field spell in an effort to kill it, as it's usually better to just go after set traps. However, if someone does use many resources to destroy the Seal, it's not really fun to have your opponent simply plop another one down. I think the "Once per duel . . . " was Konami's answer to a Field Spell that gives a somewhat decent ATK boost and takes more resources to destroy than most other Field Spells. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:57, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Then it should at least be allowed to resolve. Activating it and then having someone chain an MST to it practically makes it useless. Add a "Cards and effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation" clause, and we're good. (They should also just limit the Summoning of Fusion/Synchro/Xyz Monsters: "You cannot Fusion, Synchro, or Xyz Summon.") Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 00:05, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

The Seal already says you can't Special Summon from the Extra Deck, which implies you can't Synchro (Their in the Extra), Fusion (Also in Extra), or Xyz (Also in Extra) Summon. Anything else would be redundant, and you would only need it for people who didn't read the rules. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:36, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

Yes. But, this clause also makes it so Pendulum Summoning is impossible from the Extra Deck. If they reprint it, they mind as well make it viable for their new mechanic. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 01:45, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

True, but Pendulum Summoning is also possible from the hand. However, I wouldn't assume anything about Pendulum Summons, as far as I know, when they die, they go to your Extra Deck Zone, so the Seal may partially apply. Also, Konami has been known to leave some cards in the dust with new mechanics. See Gravity Bind and Xyz Monsters. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:00, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's true: Pendulum Monsters do go to the Extra Deck upon destruction, which is why I suggest they don't limit Extra Deck Summoning for cards, except Fusion/Synchro/Xyz Monsters. They should also replace the Once per Duel clause with a heavy (non-optional) maintenance cost. That way, it's dangerous to use. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 02:14, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

Revised Changes to The Seal and Ra

Taking into consideration the proper synthesis to recreate their effects from the anime as well as maintain similar restrictions on their legal counterparts, I have revised my concepts of how "The Winged Dragon of Ra" and "The Seal of Orichaclos" could be altered, so to satisfy collectors and players alike. Like above, I shall start with "The Winged Dragon".

"The Winged Dragon of Ra"

Divine-Beast-Type/DIVINE/Level 10/ATK ?/DEF ?)

Must first be Normal Summoned. Requires 3 Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set). This card's Normal Summon cannot be negated. When Normal Summoned, cards and effects cannot be activated. During the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard. This card gains the total original ATK and DEF of the monsters Tributed for its Tribute Summon. You can pay 1000 Life Points, then target 1 monster on the field; destroy that target. When this card is Special Summoned: You can pay Life Points so that you only have 100 left; this card gains ATK and DEF equal to the amount of Life Points paid.

• "Cannot be Special Summoned." >>> "Must first be Normal Summoned."
  In doing so, one can still Special Summon it, but they must first Summon it through Tributing 3 monsters.
• + "During the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard."
  This follows the other Gods now, as it would be able to be Special Summoned.
• + "This card gains the total original ATK and DEF of the monsters Tributed for its Tribute Summon."
  This would parallel how it gains the ATK/DEF of the Tributed monsters in the anime, and you don't have to pay Life Points for it to gain ATK/DEF.
• "When this card is Normal Summoned: ..." >>> "When this card is Special Summoned: ..."
  Point-to-Point Transfer only works when Special Summoned, like the anime now.

"The Seal of Orichalcos"

Field Spell

When this card is activated: Destroy all Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz Monsters you control. All monsters you control gain 500 ATK. Once per turn, this card cannot be destroyed by card effects. While you control 2 or more face-up Attack Position monsters, your opponent cannot target your monster(s) with the lowest ATK for an attack. Monsters you control cannot be used as Fusion, Synchro, or Xyz Materials for a Summon. Cards and effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation. You can only activate "The Seal of Orichalcos" once per Duel.

• "Destroy all Special Summoned monsters you control." >>> "Destroy all Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz Monsters you control."
  This does not harm monsters Special Summoned from the hand, Deck, or Graveyard; this card should only act as anti-Extra Deck support, based on the design and anime.
• "You cannot Special Summon monsters from the Extra Deck." >>> "Monsters you control cannot bed used as Fusion, Synchro, or Xyz Materials for a Summon."
  This increases usability somewhat for Fusions and Pendulum Monsters. It is also more faithful to the anime, as Rex Fusion Summoned while "The Seal of Orichalcos" was in play, albeit with Fusion Materials that he controlled.
• + "Cards and effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation."
  This would be all that was needed to prevent cards like "Mystical Space Typhoon" from destroying it during resolution, thus improving usability.
  

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Don't forget to post your own ideas of card effect changes. Thirteenth Chimera!! (talk • contribs) 16:55, March 18, 2014 (UTC)