Talk:Metaltron XII, the True Dracombatant

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ダース is not Da'at

Although メタトロン is pronounced the same as the name of the archangel "Metatron"[1], that is not what this card's name is originally referring to.

ダースメタトロン is actually referring to the 3 archetypes that are related to the True Dracos.

• ダース[2] is actually the Japanese way of saying "dozen" and refers to the "Twelve Beasts", Zoodiacs.

• メタ "Meta" refers to Metalfoes.

• トロン "Tron" refers to Crystron.

Therefore, the Dāsu part of this card's name is not referencing Jewish mysticism at all. -  HHT   19:13, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

The Daasu part as Dozen is correct, but Konami has a habit of being 'punny'/double inferences with names. It's both Meta(lfoes) and (Crys)tron, but it's also meant to infer this card as being Metatron, the voice of God. This can be inferred as the cards in this theme include:

V.F.D. The Beast, V.F.D. a Protestant conspiracy title for the Pope used to infer his being the Anti-Christ and bringer of the end of days. The new trap card literally refers to The Book of Revelations/John's Apocalypse in its name, and the Dracophoenix is named after the Greek/Aramic name for Mary. (Now whether this is supposed to be Mother Mary or Mary Madeleine is a whole other kettle o' fish) NeoArkadia (talk • contribs) 22:10, December 27, 2016 (UTC)

I can agree that メタトロン is an intentional reference to the archangel. However, the "ダース being Da'at" part is really a stretch. It's also because the Japanese already has a word for "Da'at", ダアト (Da'ato)[3]. Would you not agree that the "Dāsu" part of this card's name should be corrected?  HHT   07:36, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

Corrected to what? Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 07:42, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

There are some options. For example, we can translate by meaning as "Dozen-Metatron"; or we translate that part phonetically as "Das-Metatron" and we note what it refers to in the Card Trivia.  HHT   07:56, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of choosing which portion of the JP name to emphasize, as trying to encompass its entire message is impossible or too verbose.

"the "ダース being Da'at" part is really a stretch." No it's not, given the context of "Metatron" in the same name. Try to convey the words "dozen" and "da'at" in the final name, otherwise it has to be one or the other (much like Scar-light vs. Scar-right). --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 18:27, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

"Scar-light vs. Scar-right" is not related to this, because it wasn't clear what スカーライト is referring to. Moreover, Scar-right or Scarlight combined like that aren't real words. Thus, there was a LOT of guess-work involved with translating that.

The problem here is that ダース "Dāsu" and ダアト "Da'ato" are real words in Japanese, so everyone can tell what those words are or aren't referring to. Yes, the "Metatron" part is a reference to the archangel. However, that doesn't mean we can bend "Dāsu" to also be a reference to Da'at.  HHT   18:42, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

Actually, we can. With Daath, the soft "th" sound ends up as an "s" sound in Japanese. Someone also told me to tell you that Japan is a country that pronounces Ultraman Zero's "Ultimate Zero" form as "Urutimeito Zero" while BEUD's Ultimate is "Arutimeito". --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 19:53, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

I see what you are saying, but then shouldn't it be "Daath" or "Da'as" like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da'as_Torah, rather than "Da'at" with a hard "t" ending?  HHT   20:10, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

That's a possibility yeah, but I'm just waiting for YGOrganization to finalize their translations, as they're the ones that find nuanced details like this. (When YGO news is spoiled, it's a bit difficult to examine every detail of the preliminary translation when there are other competing sources that do hack translations in an attempt for speedy news, spreading misinformation.) NeoArkadia is one of the translators, so I'm sure they'll see your suggestions here. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 20:17, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

https://www.kabalahgarden.com/%E7%94%A8%E8%AA%9E%E9%9B%86/

http://veilsalon.com/blog/whats-qabalah/

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3Z_OIO_P5MoJ:anima-mystica.jpn.org/imn/knowledge/knowle014.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://indigo-deva.com/kabalah.html

I'll just leave this right here, after additional prodding I was given to do research. Don't rely on just Wikipedia. Da'at goes with Da-su or Da-to or Daato depending on the Japanese person's choice of transcription. All are multiple choice and correct. As Japanese people sound out words by sound from foreign countries, resulting in multiple possible transcriptions.

A good example of the problem here is エンゼル, エンジェル, エィンジェル and アンジェル are all valid ways of transcribing the English word Angel. Now is it possible Dozen might be the more weighted indication? Possibly. It's also the one the TCG branch is more likely to use to sweep any Da'at connotations under the rug to avoid getting multiple groups upset.

However, Da'at itself isn't entirely a possible wrong intention here either, as it could easily be that alongside Dozen due to the linguistic twists of Japanese (and YGO's inherent bias to double wordplay), that Da'at is basically a state of mass unification, which fits what is going on here, as you essentially have a Megazord of the three 'weaker' tribes of the Dracoslayer verse. NeoArkadia (talk • contribs) 22:20, December 28, 2016 (UTC)