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→Dub name revisited: new section
::::I am aware of that - if that's true, then why can't Kaiba's first name being "Seto" since his little brother was repeat called "[[Mokuba Kaiba]]" oppose to "Little Kaiba" or something. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 16:03, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
:::::I have read before in a Yu-Gi-Oh! trivia book that I have that the character's name is Bakura Ryou. THAT is his dub name. Ryo Bakura is his manga name, and Ryou Bakura is his name in one of the games. However, this page is mainly about his anime self. I recommend that this article be renamed. I would be quite grateful. I've never heard the word "Ryou" in his name in the dub. If this article doesn't get renamed to "Bakura Ryou", then at least change it to Bakura.
[[User:NC Duelist|NC Duelist]] ([[User talk:NC Duelist|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NC Duelist|contribs]]) 01:48, January 26, 2016 (UTC)
== Bakura lineart ==
I say rename it. Not entirely sure what your point is with consistency there Dreads. Don't really see why the games shouldn't be official. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 01:24, November 7, 2015 (UTC)
:Consistency with the most used name on the wikia, and Against that being "Ryo" :As for Video games counting because they are inconsistent, which one is official? Tag force uses "Ryo" and World Championship uses "Ryou", Nightmare Troubadour uses "Bakura Ryou" etc. they are inconsistent. Besides the Video game versions already have their own versions (well most of them, see the disabiguation page) and this is for the anime version of the character, so they are irrelevant for several reasons there.:If we do count Video games, then It'd probably be the most recent entry, Tag force, which uses "Ryo":[[User:DreadKaiser|Dread]] ([[User talk:DreadKaiser|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DreadKaiser|contribs]]) 23:03, November 8, 2015 (UTC) ::It's true video games are not really a source of canon for the anime. They were mentioned because it was suggested that the mention of "Bakura Ryou" on yugioh.com was a typo. I just thought its usage in other official media made it less likely to have been typo.::Incidentally, the ''Tag Force'' game that Bakura appears in, ''[[Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V Tag Force Special]]'', has not been released in English. So he doesn't have an English version name in that game. I don't think he's called "Ryo Bakura" in any English video game. Although I could be wrong.::-- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:5606, November 812, 2015 (UTC) :::This is similar to "[[Yugi's mother]]" and "Mrs. Muto". True, they are practically the same, but since an official source used "Yugi's mother", it was renamed. [[User:Scheepybird|Scheepybird]] ([[User talk:Scheepybird|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scheepybird|contribs]]) 21:31, January 4, 2016 (UTC) :::Since the trivia book as well as the official site called him "Bakura Ryou", it is not likely for it to be a typo. [[User:Scheepybird|Scheepybird]] ([[User talk:Scheepybird|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scheepybird|contribs]]) 23:46, January 27, 2016 (UTC) :::I'm not a regular contributor, but I refer to this wiki on a regular basis. Everywhere else I've seen, fans refer to Bakura as "Ryou," with "Ryo" being used very rarely. I've always seen "Ryou" and only "Ryou" accepted as the official romanization of the name. From what I know about Japanese, the romanization would usually either be Ryou or Ryō because of the う in {{Ruby|了|りょう}} (though I'm not accusing "Ryo" of being an invalid romanization). I'd very much agree with changing the page name to "Ryou Bakura." [[User:Donteatacowman|Donteatacowman]] ([[User talk:Donteatacowman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Donteatacowman|contribs]]) 21:25, February 7, 2016 (UTC) ::::Both the trivia book and the official website use "Bakura Ryou". Since we can't confirm whether or not "Bakura Ryou" is a typo, it's best we use that. The trivia book also supports the fact that it may not be a typo. About consistency on this Wikia, it's still possible to change it if it gets renamed. [[User:Scheepybird|Scheepybird]] ([[User talk:Scheepybird|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scheepybird|contribs]]) 15:54, May 15, 2016 (UTC) :::::Now that I know that there's another source I'm far more for it than I was. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 21:51, May 15, 2016 (UTC) ::::::I long since stopped giving a shit, its up to the Admins::::::[[User:DreadKaiser|Dread]] ([[User talk:DreadKaiser|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DreadKaiser|contribs]]) 22:20, May 15, 2016 (UTC)
==Ryo or Ryou?==
:Both are acceptable, it makes little to no difference. Translation to english isn't a smooth thing, you will find there are usually multiple different English spellings. there is a reason we list the alternate names in the header and infoboxes.
:[[User:DreadKaiser|Dread]] ([[User talk:DreadKaiser|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DreadKaiser|contribs]]) 19:58, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
== Dub name revisited ==
Copied from my talk page:
<blockquote>
One of the arguments that was originally used to incite the name change is that the name Ryou wasn't used in the English dub. While that's true, that claim is slightly hypocritical in itself. The name Ryou is never mentioned in the English version as his first name, but it was absolutely never mentioned as the last name; Yugi and company always refer to him as simply "Bakura". It's also important to note that the original manga and pre-dub anime ''also'' don't have people address him by his first name; Yugi and company ''never'' call him Ryou in any continuity. This trait was one thing they didn't change when dubbing the English version, the same way Kaiba is always called "Kaiba" by everyone except for Mokuba Kaiba, Gozaburo Kaiba, and Noah Kaiba from the anime, who call him "Seto" in English and Japanese because they're his family. A person who continuously addresses the first name is the only difference between the situation with Kaiba and the situation with Bakura; it's the same situation otherwise and honestly should be treated as such.
Another severe issue I noticed in the discussion was the evidence put forth by certain fans looking to get the name changed. From what I gathered from the discussions, the main two things submitted as evidence were a trivia book that apparently used the name "Bakura Ryou" and the Yami Bakura profile on the official site. But after consideration, I've found that these examples aren't nearly reliable enough to warrant the change that was made, especially since the apparent "proof" is either inaccurate or most likely simple error.
This is especially true for the apparent trivia book that was claimed as a source of the name "Bakura Ryou". Just what exactly is this "trivia book"? What's its title? When was it published? Is it something we as a fandom would recognize, or is it some obscure book from a discount store that barely anyone would recognize? Was it even a legitimate book? YuGiOh was and still is victim to having bootleg merchandise made without company approval, including unlicensed cards, books, and toys. The fact that all of these questions go unasked and unanswered throughout the entirety of the original discussion is not only unusual, but also makes its submission as evidence look careless and easily excepted as truth, despite the fact that it's such vague and opaquely explained information.
The other piece of evidence used to insight the name change from the official site is also highly suspect. I think a lot of people in the original argument were too hung up on the fact that it was the official site. Just because it's the official site doesn't mean someone can't make a simple mistake. Like I already mentioned, none of the other characters refer to Bakura by his first name in canon episodes, simply because it's carried over from Japanese honorifics. What happened on the official sight - more likely than not - is that the person translating, writing the page say Bakura's name formatted in the original style of "last name, first name" format - aka "Bakura Ryou" - and made the simple mistake of thinking that was the last name since it was never/rarely mentioned. It's also important to note that Bakura doesn't even ''have'' his own profile - this apparent evidence only comes from Yami Bakura's profile, and that format isn't repeated ''anywhere else'' on the entire site. And everywhere else on the website, the call him "Bakura", further insinuating that the single profile incident is a fluke rather than a canon name change.
So in conclusion, the name change on the Bakura page feels not only unwarranted, but inaccurate as well. This wiki is a place where I and other fans often come to help answer questions about characters, episodes, and other subjects involved in YuGiOh, and I'm usually more than satisfied with the information it provides. But this is something I feel is too big to ignore, especially when the handful of fans who wanted this name change are in an extremely small minority to the rest of the fandom.
Thanks for your time. [[User:MorganaRox96|MorganaRox96]] ([[User talk:MorganaRox96|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MorganaRox96|contribs]]) 16:49, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
:I believe I've said this somewhere, but for consistency, we also have Marik Ishtar's alter ego named Yami Marik (no discussion here, right? all good) and Yugi Muto's alter ego named Yami Yugi (you also agree with this, right). More generically: "Yami <first name>". For Bakura Ryou's/Ryou Bakura's alter ego, we have Yami Bakura. So it makes sense, by this logic as well, that "Bakura" can be a legitimate first name. <span class="nowrap">[[User:Becasita|Becasita]] <sup><small>Pendulum</small></sup></span> <span class="nowrap">([[User talk:Becasita|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Becasita|contribs]])</span> 19:12, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
::I can understand where you're coming from, Becasita. But isn't it more likely that the choice to call him "Yami Bakura" was more of a writer's choice? I mean, "Yami Ryou" really doesn't have the same kick to it as "Yami Bakura" does; it seems more like a tactic of effective and memorable naming. And it's not like they refer to him as something other than "Yami Bakura" in Japanese, where Bakura is the last name as well. [[User:MorganaRox96|MorganaRox96]] ([[User talk:MorganaRox96|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MorganaRox96|contribs]]) 19:30, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
</blockquote>
Replies listed below italicised quotes:
:''The name Ryou is never mentioned in the English version as his first name, but it was absolutely never mentioned as the last name''
:* It is mentioned on the official site. It's a slightly obscure, but it's the only official source of a full name for the dub.
:''Yugi and company always refer to him as simply "Bakura". It's also important to note that the original manga and pre-dub anime ''also'' don't have people address him by his first name; Yugi and company ''never'' call him Ryou in any continuity. This trait was one thing they didn't change when dubbing the English version''
:* The Japanese names and standards do not necessarily come through in the dub. "Pegasus J. Crawford" is referred to by his first name in the Japanese version. In the dub, his name is changed to "Maximillion Pegasus" and he is usually referred to by his surname. Similar to the proposed Bakura case, the switching of first and last name also results in him going by the same name, "Pegasus", in both versions.
:''[T]he same way Kaiba is always called "Kaiba" [...] A person who continuously addresses the first name is the only difference between the situation with Kaiba and the situation with Bakura''
:* In both cases, it's the full name being mentioned elsewhere, that indicates whether or not the single name being used is the first or last name. We also know "Kaiba" is the surname because other family members use it. None of Bakura's family members are mentioned by name in the dub.
:''Just what exactly is this "trivia book"? [...] YuGiOh was and still is victim to having bootleg merchandise [...] The fact that all of these questions go unasked and unanswered throughout the entirety of the original discussion is not only unusual, but also makes its submission as evidence look careless and easily excepted as truth, despite the fact that it's such vague and opaquely explained information.''
:* My best guess was that it was ''Yu-Gi-Oh! The Ultimate Trivia Book'' (ISBN [[Special:BookSources/9780439879156|9780439879156]]). I could not find evidence at the time that the name "Bakura Ryo" was indeed used in the book. I did not take this as solid evidence at the time and relied mainly on the official site. I didn't list the book in my summation of the main arguments above.
:''Just because it's the official site doesn't mean someone can't make a simple mistake. [...] What happened on the official sight - more likely than not - is that the person translating, writing the page say Bakura's name formatted in the original style of "last name, first name" format - aka "Bakura Ryou" - and made the simple mistake of thinking that was the last name since it was never/rarely mentioned.''
:* I said above that I wouldn't outrule that official site may have made a mistake, but there's no evidence for it at the moment. We could change it if 4K Media say it was a mistake or release another source that contradicts it. What we're doing at the moment is presenting what the official source is saying. What you're proposing is to accept an assumption, that they've made a mistake, as a fact and go against what the official source says.
:''Bakura doesn't even ''have'' his own profile - this apparent evidence only comes from Yami Bakura's profile, and that format isn't repeated ''anywhere else'' on the entire site. And everywhere else on the website, the call him "Bakura", further insinuating that the single profile incident is a fluke rather than a canon name change.''
:* That means it's just one small official source in favour of "Bakura Ryou". But there haven't been any official sources presented for "Ryou Bakura" as the dub name. Ideally, we'd like there to be more than one source, but it's all we've got. And if it's a case of 1 VS 0, I think we should go with the 1.
:And Becasita's comment:
:''[F]or consistency, we also have Marik Ishtar's alter ego named Yami Marik [...] and Yugi Muto's alter ego named Yami Yugi [...] More generically: "Yami <first name>". For Bakura Ryou's/Ryou Bakura's alter ego, we have Yami Bakura. So it makes sense, by this logic as well, that "Bakura"''
:*The "Yami" characters don't necessarily go by the first name. Bakura is definitely the surname in the manga and Japanese anime, where his "Yami" is also "Yami Bakura"/"Dark Bakura".
-- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 21:22, August 25, 2017 (UTC)