Forum:Card article redesign (part 2)

Continuing from Forum:Card article redesign... Sorry, this has been taking so long.

The last few times I've spoken about what to do next with some other users, we've been divided between whether a card should have its information from each media it appears in on one article or whether we should have individual articles for each. e.g. should we have one article for "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" with sections for its OCG/TCG, manga, Toei anime, NAS anime, Konami Duel Monsters, Bandai, Labyrinth Battle Game, Dungeon Dice Monsters, Capsule Monster Chess, Capsule Monsters, BAM and various other video games or have individual articles for each of those?

Here's rough versions of the two different options:

• Unified
• Individual (would also have a few more articles like this for other mediums)

Some of the advantages to the different versions are listed below. If there's any advantages missing or a mistake in any of the given ones, please mention them. There's also a suggestion on a change to the language display. -- Deltaneos (talk) 23:58, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Added a third option, "individual articles with master page", per Cheesedude's comments below.

This option is like a combination of the other two. Every card would have individual pages for each medium it appears in; "Dark Magician (OCG/TCG)", "Dark Magician (Bandai)", "Dark Magician (manga)" etc. They would also have one master page, which pulls information from each of those individual pages and creates one long page with information from each medium. -- Deltaneos (talk) 18:18, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

AdvantagesEdit

Unified articlesEdit

• Less repetition: In most of the newer video games, anime and manga cards do the exact same thing and have the same names, so in the other option the same information is getting posted across numerous pages. It's possible something could end up getting changed in one place and left the same in another. That's less likely to happen in this setup.
• Less moving around: If you're looking at an OCG card and want to see if it had a different effect in the anime or check what episodes it appeared in, it might be quicker to move down the page than go to a separate article.
• Easier linkage; You can just link/search "Blue-Eyes White Dragon" for any information on that card.

Individual articlesEdit

• Shorter pages
• Separate SMW properties for each medium: Cards have different effects and stats between mediums, but in the current setup, the OCG/TCG gets priority. e.g. "Rainbow Dark Dragon" won't show up when you search for LIGHT monsters, cards that can banish themselves or cards that support "Advanced Crystal Beast" monsters, despite having those properties in the anime. With this setup, "Rainbow Dragon (anime)" would appear in those searches. If you don't want anime cards to appear in your search, you can filter the search to only give you OCG/TCG cards.
• Less subsections: In the mobile skin, everything inside a == Level 2 heading == collapses by default (a bit like [show]/[hide]). In this setup, the level 2 sections will be something like "Stats" (maybe), "Sets", "Search categories", "Navboxes". (See also the languages suggestion below.) So you just expand the section you want and you shouldn't have to scroll too much. In the other setup, there's a lot more content under each level 2 heading, so you may spend a lot of time scrolling to find the content you're looking for. Most people are slower at scrolling on mobile devices.

Individual articles with master pagesEdit

(This option was added a bit later than the other two.)

• Combines a lot of the benefits of both the above formats.

Languages suggestionEdit

Tabber doesn't work in the mobile skin. This means that mobile users won't have all the languages they're not viewing tucked away in tabs, but will see a long list; the English image, the English stats, followed by the French image, the French stats, the German image, the German stats etc. I was thinking if we have just the English image and stats at the top of the page, then further down we have a section == Other languages == or === Other languages === (depending on which of the above two options we use) with the French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Japanese and Korean tabs inside it.

CommentsEdit

I like the individual card page look, sure it's not as convenient as the unified page, but it's probably what a good number of people want to see when they search for a card. Also, would the unified pages take longer to load than the individual pages? I also miss the Action category section, it made finder similar cards easier. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 01:02, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I was under the impression that part of the deal was that the current card pages stay. We'll have individual pages for everything, but the base card pages will be still be a thing. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 02:13, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

You mean we'd have "Dark Magician (OCG/TCG)", "Dark Magician (manga)" etc. and the information from all those pages would be transcluded onto "Dark Magician"? Okay, I could put that as a third option above, if that is indeed what you meant. -- Deltaneos (talk) 13:35, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I'd very much like to not have to link everything to "Dark Magician (manga)" and the like. The main page should do, and further information can be found via the tabs or whatever we end up using. Cheesedude (talk • contribs) 17:25, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

For the individual articles format, if we use that one, I think it will be possible to run a few SMW searches on the current pages, then use lots of regex, then we can import all the pages. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 04:49, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

That sounds real handy. -- Deltaneos (talk) 13:35, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Individual is also my preferred choice as well; because it allows us greater flexibility, and helps prevent information overload. I don't mind us transcluding data onto a "Master" page. Once this is finalised, we can hopefully also then decide precisely how another project should be presented - each card release would get a page (allowing us to historically document card lores, and will actually help us to dynamically list card sets).--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 17:50, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Prefer unified. It's all the same card, after all, just with slightly different properties in different versions. Rod (talk • contribs) 21:55, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Just a question, but did you guys know when you plan to put in place the new card pages? --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:51, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Are the images going to be that tiny? Aberration (talk • contribs) 19:21, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Any updates on this? --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 20:35, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

I would love to see all of the content that a card has to deal with in one single page, that is what i like about the unified method idea, however i personally dont find the way that it was made very organized or appealing. I would suggest the use of multitabs, not only for this, but for the whole website in general because of the advantages that it has. You can get the idea by reading this;[1] that way we could have a single page with several tabs for each category, one that displays the main content of the card, then other tabs for, tips, rulings, anime, video games, etc. --Wyndamn (talk • contribs) 19:51, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

There are reasons why I designed the system the way that it is. I don't want pages holding too much information, and that's as true now as it was in 2005. Having separate namespaces also grants us a lot of potential power, as we can have specific edit rules for specific namespaces. The card table itself was a product of years of iterative development, and this is the first chance we've had to do a complete overhaul.--TwoTailedFox (My Talk Page) 20:02, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

I actually thought about a tab system before, though I assumed that there was probably good reasons not to use it. The main reason I wanted it was because I find the additional sections (artworks, tips, trivia, etc) rather clumsily hidden away within the page when I tend to find myself, at least, often wanting to access them rather quickly. I felt like having links/tabbed sections right at the top and bottom of the page might help provide easier and quicker access to this information. If heavy page load is a problem, then it would be nice if there was a way to have each tab's content only load when clicked on. BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 21:00, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

So this might be a rather bold proposition, but... how about Tag Force images for the main card picture? They're the highest-quality images of a given card we have, albeit without the text, and it'd save us the (admittedly minor) trouble of having to swap out the picture when a new version comes along. Granted, we'd have to wait for someone to rip Duel Carnival for everything after Photon Shockwave, but... Rod (talk • contribs) 18:11, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

I'm hesitant about that idea. We want to make these pages easy to understand. Some people may question whether or not the lore stated on the page is true if they own an old copy of the card. The casual person won't even know to look at Card Errata to confirm. And to be honest, I've felt that using the TF pics for OCG/TCG cards was tacky after browsing e.s.yugioh.wikia. --UltimateKuriboh (talk • contribs) 15:22, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ooh, I actually like that a lot! Rod (talk • contribs) 05:39, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I rather like how the top part of the e.s.yugioh.wikia card page looks very colourful and attractive. BlueEyesWhiteDragon (talk • contribs) 21:00, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Hopefully saying this doesn't count as necromancy, but...I like pretty much everything Deltaneos is doing for a new layout. I did read the entirety of the previous forum discussion, and I think it's definitely a good direction to take the card pages in. I originally only found this discussion because I noticed there wasn't a single link to the BAM version of a card on the physical card's main page, which forces adding "_(BAM)" to the end of the URL just to find it. I was looking for support for more standardization/recognition of BAM cards, and...then I found a torrent of discussion on updating the system as a whole. And finally, the only reason I'm adding this comment to this thread instead of dropping the indents is because I would absolutely agree with just using the TF images - having the entire card is, to me, an insignificant formality, and I can imagine it would create a hassle each time a new version of the card is released. It would also solve the small but pesky nonconformity of game-only cards just having their card image. But even beyond which image we use, I'm just glad someone realized the need for an update to the card system. —烏Γ ^{(kaw at me)}, 23:00, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Will you consider adding phonetic/translation parameters to all languages other than English?Take Fumikô (バカアキ) (talk) 08:29, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Progress?Edit

Just wondering what the progress status of this overhaul was? I know that Neos and Dino have been pretty busy with other tasks, but I thought I might as well ask. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 14:06, June 18, 2014 (UTC)