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Text replacement - "\{\{[Tt]alkheader" to "{{Talk header"
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'''Talk Pages are only for the discussion on how to improve the article. Please post your questions on the [[Forum:Yu-Gi-Oh! Ruling Queries|Rulings Forum]] and general discussion on the [[Forum:General Yu-Gi-Oh! Discussion|Forum]].'''
==Ice Barrier Template==
::: I think that was meant to be sarcastic. Anyways, [[Gladiator Beast War Chariot]] and [[Morphtronic Accelerator]] (first 2 cards I could think of that have the 'archetype name', but are not monsters) both are in 'Support', and not 'Member'.
::: The reason should be because of the pages like [[List of "Gladiator Beast" monsterscards]], 'Archetypes member' is used when generating that list, and those pages are for monsters only. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:11, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
Let me explain the Wikia's policy on this.
: @Deltaneos: Ok... then there are quite a few pages that don't follow that.
: Try "[[Magical Hats]]" + "[[Desert Sunlight]]" if you want it to be face-up. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 22:02, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
Okay, it seems to me like Hydronic is is the only guy who keeps harping on reverting it back to the way it was. Can someone please slap some sense into that guy? He's refusing to talk on the talk page pretty much because he wants to make an edit war. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 23:19, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
==My arguments==
As Deltaneos already pointed it out, S/Ts ARE being treated as "members" of Archetypes (Scrap-Iron, Fusion, Polymerisation, Speed Spells...). I just want to add something else, [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_%22Dark_World%22_monsters see this page], it DOES list DARK WORLD S/Ts as MEMBERS. What are your responses to THAT?--[[User:Hydronic|Hydronic]] ([[User talk:Hydronic|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hydronic|contribs]]) 21:39, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
: I noticed an "''Orly? What if I told you that Deltaneos disagrees with you?...''"
: Well, in response to that, I'll quote from Deltaneos himself "''Don't think of being an admin as having a higher rank or influence over other editors.''"
: Currently, the majority agrees on the method that HHT highlights.
: And now the '[[List of "Ancient Gear" cards|List of]] [[List of "Amazoness" cards|Monster Cards]]' are messed up... <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 23:19, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
::Nice try, that was just to bring to attention that the number of those who think the card should be treated as Related to the Ice Barrier Archetype isn't superior to the number of those who think the opposite.--[[User:Hydronic|Hydronic]] ([[User talk:Hydronic|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hydronic|contribs]]) 16:30, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
:::Personally, I view it as being related to the archetype, much like how "[[Harpie's Brother]]" is related to the "[[Harpie]]" archetype without being a member. "Mirror of the Ice Barrier" is not a support card for the archetype, and using "Magical Hats" as an argument is actually very poor, as it is a very unique card with unique rulings, such as the one Del pointed out. DemonGodAsura 17:03, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
::::Harpie brother doesn't include the japanese for Harpie in its japanese name, AND go see Cobal of DW w/e his name is, he supports "DW Cards", so S/Ts are part of the archetype.--[[User:Hydronic|Hydronic]] ([[User talk:Hydronic|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hydronic|contribs]]) 17:56, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
:::::I understand the "Harpie's Brother" issue. By definition, Spell Cards cannot be a part of the archetype:
::::::1 - the original pattern or model of which all things of the same type are representations or copies
:::::By definition, only creatures/monsters can be part or, or an, archetype. Spell and Trap Cards do not reflect this. Neither in art nor effect. They are mostly objects, techniques or actions rather than creatures, and therefore cannot follow the pattern or model. This is where it gets difficult. Because a card can support a member of an archetype, that does not mean that it is a part of the card. Spell and Trap Cards that share part of their name with an archetype is called "themed support", not a direct member of the archetype. DemonGodAsura 18:20, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
What does it say at the top of an "Archetype" listing? "List of X Monsters". Is Mirror of the Ice Barrier a monster? No. Does it support the archetype? No. Therefore it is related. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 18:45, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
:One of the main ideas of those list pages is so you can find a list of cards that can be affected by an archetypes' support cards. You're after removing all the "Dark World" Spell and Trap Cards when they're all searchable by "[[Cobal, Excavator of Dark World]]", who mentions a "Dark World" ''card'', not a "Dark World" ''monster''. The page could have just been renamed ''List of "Dark World" cards''. Also |archetype1 = doesn't exist specifically for those list pages. So it shouldn't be removed from card articles just to fix those lists. If we only wanted the list to show monsters, we could add <code><nowiki>[[Card Category::Monster Cards]]</nowiki></code> to the query.
:In your edit summaries, you said ''This supports the "Dark World" archetype; it doesn't belong in the "List of Dark World Monsters".'' How does being a support card, stop it being a member? "[[Elemental Hero Necroshade]]" supports "Elemental Hero" monsters, but is clearly an "Elemental Hero". -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 20:14, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
::Because Necroshade is a monster, whereas those are not. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 20:29, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
:::Hold on for a second, I want to know who set this stupid rule of Archetype membership being privileged to Monster Cards only.--[[User:Hydronic|Hydronic]] ([[User talk:Hydronic|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hydronic|contribs]]) 20:36, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
::::The definition of [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/archetype archetype]. [[User:Messengerofthedark|DemonGodAsura]] ([[User talk:Messengerofthedark|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Messengerofthedark|contribs]]) 02:27, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
::::Clicking on the "members" link on the archetype page leads to "List of Ice Barrier ''Monsters''". I think that speaks for itself.
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party, but still...
If we're defining the archetype by a fundamental card property like the card's name, then I don't see why we should limit it to monsters. Game mechanics don't differentiate between "Ice Barrier" monsters and "Ice Barrier" Spell/Traps. "[[Axe of Despair]]" is an Archfiend, so it can be used with "[[Falling Down]]" just as well as "[[Terrorking Archfiend]]" is; there's no difference. Yes, individual cards may specify "''an Archfiend monster''", but that shouldn't be enough to exclude it from the archetype. "[[Gadget Arms]]" specifies "''1 "Morphtronic" Spell or Trap Card''", so does that mean that "[[Morphtronic Boarden]]" doesn't belong in the "Morphtronics" archetype? "Morphtronic Scopen" only works on Level 4 "Morphtronic" monsters, so does that mean that "Morphtronic Scopen" isn't a "Morphtronic"?
If we're defining the cards by flavour, then I guess that you could make an argument for excluding Spells/Traps, based on how you define the flavour. However, if we're defining things in this way, then "[[Rinyan, Lightsworn Rogue]]" wouldn't be a "[[Lightsworn]]" (its effect goes against the trend of "get cards into the Graveyard") and "[[Shadow Tamer]]" wouldn't be an [[Archfiend]] (it takes control of your opponent's Archfiends; how does that fit in?).
About those "''List of "Archfiend" monsters''" pages, I'd prefer if they said "''List of "Archfiend" cards''".
Although everyone seems to be over it, if we want to discuss this more, then we should probably take it to the forum. --[[User:Deus Ex Machina|Deus Ex Machina]] ([[User Talk:Deus Ex Machina|Talk]]) 03:18, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
The Archfiend case is a weird exception. That is due to a mistranslation in the TCG. But for the most part, Archetypes are meant to classify the monsters within it, not spells or traps that happen to have their name. That's like putting "Gravekeeper's Servant" in the "Gravekeeper's" Archetype since they share the name. It's not a monster within the archetype, so it's not in the archetype. It doesn't support Gravekeepers, so it's not support. Therefore, it's related, just like this card is.
...though that apparently flew right over Hydronic's head when he went and changed it to an archetype member despite it not being one. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 06:37, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
At any rate, [[Forum:Confining archetypes to monsters only|here's a forum discussion]]. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 06:56, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
:You totally ignored Deux Ex Machina's point.--[[User:Hydronic|Hydronic]] ([[User talk:Hydronic|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hydronic|contribs]]) 13:56, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
