Editing Forum:Deployment of Tooltips

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[[User:TwoTailedFox|TwoTailedFox]] has {{t|Tooltip}} and {{t|TooltipA}} ready for use. 

I've applied the latter (which is used for anime cards) to the [[Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V - Episode 089|latest anime episode]]. It can be used a replacement for {{t|Monster}} and can be applied to all cards. I believe its ideal for use in the Featured Duel sections, but I wouldn't use it for Decklists. Simply hover over a link that uses this and it pulls up all relevant card information in a pop-up. This eliminates the need for specifying initial monster stats, among other things. 

I'm unsure whether we want to use it in prose sections (so, the summary sections of episodes and the bulk of most character articles) and would appreciate any input on that subject.

I'm also unsure where we want to implement the base Tooltip. It should be useful for archetype and strategy articles and maybe the bulleted points in the set articles. So input on that would also be appreciated. 

Any objections to what I've listed above will also be considered. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 17:54, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

:How is this supposed to work on mobile devices? --[[User:XBrain130|XBrain130™]]「[[User talk:XBrain130|{{Ruby|Ｘ|エックス}}ブレーン１３０]]」  18:43, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

::I tried using the mobile skin, and it appears to still work. Perhaps it doesn't on actual mobile devices, I can't be sure. I could check on my tablet, but have no phone. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 18:56, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

:::It depends whether or not the mobile skin itself is still working. The skin hasn't usually been working for me when I click on links in the mobile skin, but it does work when I check differences (I should note that using the wiki on mobile devices is effectively impossible for editing, but that's been a problem for months.) I'll edit an episode, get into my emails, and check that. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 20:16, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
:::And I'm a moron. My own changes don't alert me. Someone mind editing episode 74 for me so that it'll alert me in an email? [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 20:21, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

::::Edited, see how it works. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 20:25, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

:::::Thanks Cheese. It pops up the section right after the name of the monster in the base document itself on my phone. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 20:28, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

:I'm in favour of the idea of having card details appear on hover. But I have a couple of problems with this implementation in its current state:
:# There could be a couple of dozen card links on one page. The page's load time is going to increase for every one of them using a tooltip. Although the user will only be looking at a few.
:# Custom CSS and JavaScript are not applied on the mobile skin, so you get [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Appearances:Dark_Fusion?oldid=2776138&useskin=wikiamobile a list of tables appearing midsentence].
:# When the page loads, you see the tooltips briefly appear for a moment, before disappearing.
:# On a more minor note, it uses invalid HTML. You're not supposed to put <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> tags inside <code>&lt;span&gt;</code> tags.
:#:Complete bollocks. It's legitimately valid HTML, it's just considered ''bad practice''. There is a gulf of difference between what it is and what you claim it is.--[[User:TwoTailedFox|TwoTailedFox]] ([[User talk:TwoTailedFox|talk]]) 22:44, January 21, 2016 (UTC)
:#::I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. It's considered [https://validator.w3.org erroneous] by [https://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-html51-20151008/dom.html#phrasing-content the HTML5 spec]. If you regard it as just a bad practice, that's fine. It is a minor issue either way, as the major modern browsers will still render it. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 20:42, January 22, 2016 (UTC)
:# I'm not sure about this point, but I think when web crawlers read pages, they don't take JavaScript into account. So instead of reading:
:#::''He uses this card to fuse "Elemental HERO Avian" with "Elemental HERO Burstinatrix" in order to Fusion Summon "Evil HERO Inferno Wing".''
:#: one would read:
:#:: ''He uses this card to fuse "Elemental HERO Avian[table of details for "Avian"...]" with "Elemental HERO Burstinatrix[table of details for "Burstinatrix"...]" in order to Fusion Summon "Evil HERO Inferno Wing[table of details for "Inferno"...]".''
:#:Although Google seems to have read [[Card Appearances:Dark Fusion]] without that issue.
:I did make a similar template, [[Template:Card link]], which avoids all those problems, except for #4, but has a few problems of its own, particularly [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Card_link/doc?useskin=wikia in the default skin]. It's better, but not perfect, [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Card_link/doc?useskin=monobook in monobook]. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 21:45, January 21, 2016 (UTC)

So, this has also been applied to [[Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V - Episode 090|the article]] on this week's episode, this time in concert with {{T|Monster}}. I can't be clearer with my opinion here: I HATE that monster template with a passion. When it was created, I made very clear that Tooltips would be replacing it.
Now, if the community disagrees, that's obviously fine and we can have a discussion. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 19:20, January 25, 2016 (UTC)
:Eh, I was the one who integrated both templates at the same time. I thought it'd be a good idea at first, but I can see why it could be a problem, since with the new template, you can just hover over the card link to get its stats. I can revert the article back to the new template if anyone else sees that as a problem. [[User:ChaosGallade|ChaosGallade]] ([[User talk:ChaosGallade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ChaosGallade|contribs]]) 19:44, January 25, 2016 (UTC)

::If you'd like to go into more detail about how templates could potentially work together, I'm certainly willing to listen. 
::The page load time issue that Delt brought up is something I haven't considered. We may want to be more selective about what gets a tooltip and what doesn't (taking the above example, Avian and Burstinatrix" wouldn't need tooltips since they are not hitting the field (and have no effects that would be relevant in-hand, or at all, actually) and Inferno Wing would. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 05:10, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
::Taking a look at Cardlink, I really like that in Monobook and its more or less functionally identical to Tooltips. But looking at in Wikia, it doesn't work at all and that's obviously really important. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 05:10, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
:::You do have a point here. I'll make the change back. [[User:ChaosGallade|ChaosGallade]] ([[User talk:ChaosGallade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ChaosGallade|contribs]]) 05:57, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
::::I changed the episode article to give the cards the tooltip template, but it's not showing up right. Below the card name link, the full Tooltip card information is shown without me hovering over it. [[User:ChaosGallade|ChaosGallade]] ([[User talk:ChaosGallade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ChaosGallade|contribs]]) 06:09, January 29, 2016 (UTC)

:So, its been quite a while with no discussion. Tooltips also started to be rolled out some pages by a few users. Do we have any other comments? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 17:41, February 18, 2016 (UTC)

::It's still fudged on mobile. Whether or not that is a concern overall is up to the community. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 02:37, February 22, 2016 (UTC)

:I'd say that's definitely an issue. Could you provide a screenshot so we can see how broken it is (I don't have a smartphone). The page load time issue concerns me quite a bit, too. I feel this needs some more discussion. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 01:57, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

::Give me an hour; the mobile skin hasn't allowed me to edit for ages, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to image upload (failing that I'll upload them from my phone to deviantart, get them off deviantart onto a USB and then upload them into the wiki from the computer.) [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 02:07, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
::Uploaded. Hmm. That's interesting; the phone doesn't let me edit but does let me upload. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 02:20, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
[[:File:TooltipAmobileskin.png]]
[[:File:TooltipAmobileskin2.png]]

:::Ok, wow. That's horribly broken. Fun. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 04:04, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

:So, given some more thought, I'm very hesitant to move forward with this. The mobile issue is pretty crippling and we have to consider Mobile users. That being said, I still, very much dislike the monster template. Therefore, I'm now asking for someone to convince me we should keep using it (or at the very least the code needs to be cleaned up, which isn't something I can do myself). 
:There's also the [[Template:Card link|card link]] template Deltaneos linked to above. That has potential as well to replace the Monster template. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 18:38, March 13, 2016 (UTC)

:I followed the link in the mobile section for Delta's Cardlink template, and it seems to work fine there. (Well, it doesn't bring up any hover, it just shows the link, but that's fine by me.) [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 22:57, March 13, 2016 (UTC)

::Well, there have been no updates on Card Link. I believe we can start removing Tooltips anyway. Its utterly broken on mobile and that's not good. So if anyone wants to start replacing Tooltips with regular hardlinked stuff, that would be fine. I'll eventually start working on it, I don't know when though. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 19:52, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

:::I'll start on that. The old monster template is out again, I assume? [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 20:59, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

::::THe Monster template and Tooltips have the same problems, unfortunately, so yes.
::::As for the Level, Rank and Pendulum symbols, I would advocate NEVER using those. We don't need those symbols everywhere. You don't need to specify in the parenthesis in most cases anyway. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:38, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

:::::Okay. Just a quick question when it comes to such things; should I thus specify the Scales when they are activated in the duel summaries? And for Xyz Materials, is it find if I expand it to specify the monsters, and possibly the material requirement? Or is that not really needed? [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 21:44, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

::::::Yes, specify the Scales when they're activated. 
::::::We do specify which monsters they are if they were to control more monsters than the ones used for the Summon. In addition, the material requirement is usually specified. "Number 96 overlays his three Level 2 DARK monsters". [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:47, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

:::::::I see. Okay, thanks! I'll take a short break and then get back onto it. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 21:52, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

::::::::Also: Can we talk about the recap sections for multi-part Duels? I find them unnecessary. You do not need a recap of what is on the field just because its another episode. In most cases, a reader is going to be reading the episode articles in order and the links to the previous and next episode pages should suffice, I think. And in many cases, half of the info isn't relevant anyway. If we want uninterrupted duel summaries, that's what [[:Category:Duels|the Duel pages]] were made for (among other things). [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:55, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

:::::::::I personally don't mind them, but I wouldn't care if they went either, and you make excellent points. May as well, it makes work easier, and if a recap like this is presented in a duel on-screen (like episode 34) I tend to put it down in the episode summary if there's emphasis. [[User:Sanokal K-T|Sanokal K-T]] ([[User talk:Sanokal K-T|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sanokal K-T|contribs]]) 01:20, June 16, 2016 (UTC)