Editing Forum:Fiber jar question

{{Forum/header|Yu-Gi-Oh! Ruling Queries}}

<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes: ~~~~ -->

Traditional format

If I activated sword of reveling light and it flips my opponent's fiber jar, then I chain book of moon to the effect of fiber jar, would book of moon be return to the deck, even if book of moon is only sent to the graveyard after fiber jar resolve?[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 02:43, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

:You said it yourself; all activated Spell and Trap Cards in a Chain (except the Continuous ones) are sent to the Graveyard after the last effect in the Chain they are in resolves. Thus, "Book of Moon" will remain on the field until "[[Fiber Jar]]" shuffles all cards from the Graveyard into the Decks, after which "Book of Moon" will be sent to the Graveyard. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 02:48, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

UltimateKuriboh: I'm not really sure if your right, because it says in the ruling if fiber jar is destroy by battle it return itself to the deck even if he is only sent to the graveyard after his flip effect resolve.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 13:05, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

:Sorry, I forgot that "Fiber Jar" also shuffles cards on the field into the Deck. In that case, read [[Returning Activated Cards]] for your answer. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 19:20, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I read Returning activated cards, in does not mention anything about the exception to that rules: 
I read in the ruling that if fiber jar is destroy by battle it will return itself to the deck, even if he would only be sent to graveyard after it's effect resolve.

So instead if my opponent's flip summoned fiber jar, and I chain book of moon, book of moon would return to the deck when fiber jar resolve, unless the ruling above is old and now inccorrect, and if their is a new rulling that stated they are no exception to the "Return Activated Cards" rules. 

Their are other cards like that that follow this exception, for example: if cyber jar flip effect activated, and cyber jar would be destroy by battle, cyber jar is destroy by it's own effect even though he would have been sent to the graveyard after it's effect resolve. Unlike "man eater bug" does not follow the exception, example: 

My opponent only has a face-down man eater bug, and I only have obelisk the tormantor, I attack face-down man eater bug with obelisk the tormantor, man eater bug cannot target obelisk the tormantor, but it cannot also target itself because he is already destroy by battle.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 20:07, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

If the ruling of "Fiber Jar" that return itself to the deck even when he's destroy by battle is still correct, it would not make any sense, or be fair that fiber jar does not include the same exception to an activated book of moon when fiber jar is flip summoned.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 20:05, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

:Given the context that it is ruled "Fiber Jar" shuffles itself into the Deck even if it's destroyed by battle (which may be because it shuffles from the Graveyard and the Deck), it is plausible to think that "Book of Moon" might be shuffled into the Deck too. However, even if the UDE ruling is still valid, you can't really apply the same to "Book of Moon" without another ruling. Better yet, it would be best for you to e-mail Konami asking whether or not "Fiber Jar" shuffles itself into the Deck if destroyed by battle (and based on that answer, whether or not a "Book of Moon" Chained to "Fiber Jar" shuffles itself into the Deck as well). You can e-mail them at us-ygorules@konami.com, but I wouldn't get your hopes up, since "Fiber Jar" is Forbidden and Konami doesn't have much incentive to make rulings on Forbidden cards (despite Traditional formats). --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 22:33, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

::I think we can safely go with the well known game mechanics and say that it cannot return itself when destroyed, or return Book of Moon. When attacked, Fiber Jar activates its effect while it is still on the field, so the graveyard thing is out of the question. I've seen many wrong rulings from UDE, and it seems that this is one of them. [[User:DexxIsBack|DexxIsBack]] ([[User talk:DexxIsBack|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DexxIsBack|contribs]]) 06:00, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

DexxISBack: The "return activated cards" ruling, if it is true that their are no exception, so someone should ad "no exception", to the "return activated cards" wikia ruling page.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 12:25, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Then what happen if cyber jar flip effect activated and it is destroy by battle, does that means if the player that control cyber jar picks up 5 level 4 monster, 4 of those monsters goes to the field, and the fifth one goes to the graveyard?[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 21:44, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

:Seemed so - just like the situation with "[[Dark World]]" full up in the hand and "[[Morphing Jar]]" on the field, flipped to face-up; you only have to Special Summon 4 of them while discarded the fifth. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 21:58, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

The real way to know for sure how it behave is to look at the most updated video game that still include fiber jar, and cyber jar, and if this video games does not come with traditional format, or unlimited format, or a special rules that includes, traditional format, or unlimited format, if it does not a hacking device, or hacking software might be needed.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 22:38, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

A good video game would be the online one of this that is automatic, if it still have traditional format option.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 23:02, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

If devine-rath is chain to cyber jar effect when cyber jar is destroy by battle in the video game of yugioh 2007 it seems that devin-rath still destroy cyber jar, even though he his already destroy by battle.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 23:08, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

:"[[Divine Wrath]]" was the word you're looking for - But yes, you can countering that card's effect with "Divine Wrath"... It don't matter if the card was already destroying or not, all it had to do is to negating the effect. And yes, you can playing that card even if that card was already banished or returned to the Deck. It's only as long as you can hit the Effect Monster's effect. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 01:18, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

I test the behavior of "fiber jar" in the video game that I have that is automatic, when "fiber jar" activated when destroy by battle it return itself to the deck, then after that I tested flip summoning fiber jar and I chain waboku, and then when fiber jar resolve the activated waboku that was suppose to be sent to the graveyard after fiber jar resolve, jump back in the deck when fiber jar was resolving. I think it goes by this logic, since the trap waboku was determine to go to the graveyard already, and fiber jar include field and graveyard to be return to deck, it would return it to deck regadless, the same logic is applied to fiber jar when destroy by battle. For exemple if fiber jar did not include the graveyard to be return to the deck, then the chain waboku would have stayed on the field until fiber jar finish resolving.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 02:49, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
:Any cards that was part of the chain remains on the field when their effect resolved. So yea, "Waboku" and "Mystical Space Typhoon" will remaining until "Fiber Jar" finished suck up the bunch of cards into the Deck and shuffled, ''then'' they are sending to the Graveyard. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 02:52, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Fiber jar does include the graveyard and field to be return to the deck. If chaining waboku to the activation of fiber jar, when fiber jar resolve the activated waboku return to the deck when fiber jar resolve its effect, why did it do that in this video game?[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 03:19, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
:Which game is that? If it's old game (WC06, etc.), then that's perhaps code error or glitch. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 03:24, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

It was (WC2007).[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 03:37, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
:Then it's possible to be glitch'd. So just go try the effect of "Fiber Jar" in WC11 instead, which is closest to present rulings and most correctly way to playing it. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 03:39, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

I ask someone in youtube that have (Wc11) I'm not sure how long it is going to take to answer me back. In the official rule book it says if a card effect breaks the rules, you go by the card effect not the rules.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 12:02, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
:No, you go by Rule. If you don't, then you're an illegal player. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 12:56, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

bass on your logic that means if I activated double summoned, I can still only normal summon once during my turn, according to you no cards can break the rules, and I could not used the effect of ultimate offering if I already normal summoned this turn, because no cards effect can break the rules. This just proves that Wikia does not know what their talking about, so that is probably why other dueling network player, dose not trust this site at all, and refuse to follow rulings in this site.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 15:10, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

:You do realize that Wikia is not the one at fault here just because you can't accept that you can't apply normal logic in this game. That's how it was ruled by the game creators, not by Wikia. Ultimate Offering is treated as an effect that activates for you to Normal Summon, while Double Summon's Normal Summon is already built-in. That's how they ruled it. Get over it. [[Special:Contributions/31.11.101.253|31.11.101.253]] ([[User talk:31.11.101.253|talk]]) 15:18, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Whatever I will still go base on the ruling of "fiber jar" until I get proven otherwise like a new ruling, and/ or seeing a video, of a yugioh video game 2011.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 15:45, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

:@IP 96.44.92.186 - If you just left that "Double Summon" activated and ended your turn without used it effect - you wasted that card. "Ultimate Offering" is just a Trap Card that remains on the field; only activating if you wish to summon other monster without triggering "Royal Oppression" effect. "Double Summon" grant you an addition summon for a turn and that's it; either is up to you - use it or waste it, where you can't do that with Ultimate Offering. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 15:54, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I do not think "Fiber jar" going to behave differently in the video game of yugioh 2011 compare to yugioh 2007, because of what you said before, konami does not make new rulings for banned cards. 

Let's compare "fiber jar" to other cards effect that shuffle card into the deck:

"Fiber jar" if it's flip effect activated when destroy by battle it will return itself to deck because it's effect include graveyard. Fiber jar if it activated because it is flip summoned and I chain book of moon, when fiber jar resolve book of moon is return to the deck because "fiber jar" includes graveyard.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 11:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Now let's look at "morphing jar 2" if "morphing jar 2" activated it's flip effect when destroy by battle he does not return itself to the deck because "morphing jar 2" does not include graveyard.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 11:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

My opponent has an effect monster, that as does effect: Send one monster card you control to shuffle all monster cards your opponent control to the deck: Send one spell card you control to shuffle all spell and trap cards your opponent control to the deck: Send one card from the top of you deck, to shuffle all cards in your opponents graveyard to the deck.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 11:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Let's  just say he activated the effect that send all my spell card, and trap cards to the deck, if I chain book of moon; book of moon would not return to the deck when my opponent's effect resolve. 

Now let's just say he activated the effect to return all my cards in the graveyard to be shuffle into the deck, if I chain book of moon, when my opponent's effect resolve all the cards in my graveyard including my activated book of moon would return to my deck.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 11:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Why do you people continue to talk about the graveyard? When Jar is activating, it is still on the field, as with any other FLIP effect monster, which is why Skill Drain can negate them. It is merely considered destroyed by battle, not sent to the grave yet. So please, just stop. Also, whenever a card effect defies game mechanics, we follow the card. Even the official rulebook specifies that. [[User:DexxIsBack|DexxIsBack]] ([[User talk:DexxIsBack|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DexxIsBack|contribs]]) 02:13, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
:Mental challenge, that user has. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 02:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

::Fred, please refrain from insults. As to user who asked the question, I again suggest you e-mail Konami, or go [http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/forum/45-ruling-questions/ here], where there are more experienced judges. If you do get a satisfactory answer, a link/screenshot would be nice, as I'm sure everyone who contributed to this forum topic would be interested in knowing the answer. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 01:20, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

::I have a mental challenge because I play Konami's game the way Konami said to? Brilliant. At least now I know not to even bother listening to anything you post concerning rulings. [[User:DexxIsBack|DexxIsBack]] ([[User talk:DexxIsBack|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DexxIsBack|contribs]]) 03:26, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
:::Then feel free ask Konami through the link and you will know why I am most likely right. (Even with all those pointless stuffs) --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 03:39, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 
for me is pointless to ask that question to konami(US) because they will never answer the question because they do not have new rulings for traditional format. I remember one time I ask a question to konami(US) that had nothing to do with traditional format. They only respond to me after 2 years, by then it is already way too late. Maybe send me the e-mail address of konami from japan, if they do answer it quicker than konami from the (US).[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 17:41, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

How about you show me a video on how it behave in the video game yugioh 2011, to see if the same exception happens has it does in yugioh 2007 video game. I'm not going to go and buy yugioh 2011 just to test fiber jar. If you can't tested in the video game. How about you call konami and ask them about the rulings that might be wrong. I will continue to play it the way I have seen it on yugioh 2007 until I get the proof that it does not work that way.

Their are no such tings, as no exception to the rules.[[Special:Contributions/96.44.92.186|96.44.92.186]] ([[User talk:96.44.92.186|talk]]) 23:01, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

:Cut that crap out already - just get it and do it. We are not your slaves. We had already answer the questions officially and anything so stop ordering us around. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 23:21, June 19, 2013 (UTC)