Editing Forum:Moving the Wiki to Curse Networks

* I will endeavour to ensure that a stable Mobile skin be available for use.

* I will endeavour to ensure that a stable Mobile skin be available for use.

==Addendum==

==Addendum==

* A Chat Room would continue to operate, and would be on IRC, with the option of a WebClient being linked to from the site. This is a vastly superior option to administer than the current chat incarnation, which is too closely integrated with the Wiki. An IRC Channel for Dueling will also be on there.

* A Chat Room would continue to operate, and would be on IRC, with the option of a WebClient being linked to from the site. This is a vastly superior option to administer than the current chat incarnation, which is too closely integrated with the Wiki. An IRC Channel for Dueling will also be on there.

* For all users who want to join the move, they would have the same rights as they would have here. The only change would be chat moderators, who would instead be made Ops on the new IRC channel.

* For all users who want to join the move, they would have the same rights as they would have here. The only change would be chat moderators, who would instead be made Ops on the new IRC channel.

==More Information==

==More Information==

=== Neutral ===

=== Neutral ===

==Comments==

==Comments==

1 other thing... In lieu of categories, how would we be able to arrange things in lists, like the monsters that could be searched via "Sangan" for example? --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 20:05, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

1 other thing... In lieu of categories, how would we be able to arrange things in lists, like the monsters that could be searched via "Sangan" for example? --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 20:05, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

: Categories would still exist, but the extension CategorySelect would be unavailable, which is not a major loss. The SMW searching functionality would also remain. As for something that Curse operates, [http://www.wowpedia.org/Portal:Main Wowpedia] is one of their largest acquisitions, and go a long way to proving that Curse know how to take care of Wikis under their command.

: Categories would still exist, but the extension CategorySelect would be unavailable, which is not a major loss. The SMW searching functionality would also remain. As for something that Curse operates, [http://www.wowpedia.org/Portal:Main Wowpedia] is one of their largest acquisitions, and go a long way to proving that Curse know how to take care of Wikis under their command.

::Hmmmm this seems good; I think it's great that the layout for Wowpedia looks very similar (if not identical) to this wikia. What new domain name would our wikia go under? Also, would it be alright for me to suggest this idea to 1 other wikia? I don't know how feasible it would be for them, but just to put it out there... Or would you rather this remain an independent notion? --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 20:31, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::Hmmmm this seems good; I think it's great that the layout for Wowpedia looks very similar (if not identical) to this wikia. What new domain name would our wikia go under? Also, would it be alright for me to suggest this idea to 1 other wikia? I don't know how feasible it would be for them, but just to put it out there... Or would you rather this remain an independent notion? --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 20:31, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::CategorySelect was disabled from this wiki many years ago at our own request.

::CategorySelect was disabled from this wiki many years ago at our own request.

::How we would be able to arrange lists like that "Sangan" one would be exactly the same on both sites. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 20:39, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::How we would be able to arrange lists like that "Sangan" one would be exactly the same on both sites. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 20:39, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::::[[Sangan: Searchable Cards]] or [[Forum:Removal of the CategorySelect tool]]? -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 21:14, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::::[[Sangan: Searchable Cards]] or [[Forum:Removal of the CategorySelect tool]]? -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 21:14, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

The only major advantage I see to forking is that we'll have a choice of a different default skin, which is much less obstructed by ads; most likely either [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=monobook Monobook] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=vector Vector]. Our current default skin [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Moving_the_Wiki_to_Curse_Networks?useskin=wikia the Wikia skin] and the old skin Monaco will most likely not be options.

The only major advantage I see to forking is that we'll have a choice of a different default skin, which is much less obstructed by ads; most likely either [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=monobook Monobook] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=vector Vector]. Our current default skin [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Moving_the_Wiki_to_Curse_Networks?useskin=wikia the Wikia skin] and the old skin Monaco will most likely not be options.

:::Delta is quite correct. We would have no option *but* to fork. The core idea would be to keep the new Wiki as up-to-date as possible, and spread the word as much as possible to the new site. Traffic will still be an issue, with Wikia getting the lion's share, but as we can see with WoWWiki, that doesn't mean it will be a better site.

:::Delta is quite correct. We would have no option *but* to fork. The core idea would be to keep the new Wiki as up-to-date as possible, and spread the word as much as possible to the new site. Traffic will still be an issue, with Wikia getting the lion's share, but as we can see with WoWWiki, that doesn't mean it will be a better site.

I'm quite suprised by this idea of splitting. I have to say that some of the wikis that moved to Curse now have little activity. The wiki I spent time with split itself, the one at the Curse now has barely 50 edits per day and around 10 active users, while the one on Wikia has much more numbers. Oh, and I have to mention that it has been since 1 year when that event happened. So please, think what you can lose. [[User:Energy X|<span style="color:red">E</span><span style="color:orange">n</span><span style="color:yellow">e</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:blue">g</span><span style="color:purple">y</span> <span style="color:gray">X</span>]] [[User talk:Energy X|∞]] 23:16, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm quite suprised by this idea of splitting. I have to say that some of the wikis that moved to Curse now have little activity. The wiki I spent time with split itself, the one at the Curse now has barely 50 edits per day and around 10 active users, while the one on Wikia has much more numbers. Oh, and I have to mention that it has been since 1 year when that event happened. So please, think what you can lose. [[User:Energy X|<span style="color:red">E</span><span style="color:orange">n</span><span style="color:yellow">e</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:blue">g</span><span style="color:purple">y</span> <span style="color:gray">X</span>]] [[User talk:Energy X|∞]] 23:16, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

:I'm kinda mixed on this. I do think that Curse will offer us a better user experience, but not having enough people that can edit and keep everything up-to-date will totally not help us. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  23:12, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

:I'm kinda mixed on this. I do think that Curse will offer us a better user experience, but not having enough people that can edit and keep everything up-to-date will totally not help us. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  23:12, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::: Ah, but the problem is that how many will read? And if they do, how many are going to go there? People who visit this wiki are happy to have this one, no need for another one. I feel that The Vault (the wiki that split itself I mentioned earlier) has little visitors, because it is hard to navigate and very unpractical to the viewer. [[User:Energy X|<span style="color:red">E</span><span style="color:orange">n</span><span style="color:yellow">e</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:blue">g</span><span style="color:purple">y</span> <span style="color:gray">X</span>]] [[User talk:Energy X|∞]] 23:16, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::: Ah, but the problem is that how many will read? And if they do, how many are going to go there? People who visit this wiki are happy to have this one, no need for another one. I feel that The Vault (the wiki that split itself I mentioned earlier) has little visitors, because it is hard to navigate and very unpractical to the viewer. [[User:Energy X|<span style="color:red">E</span><span style="color:orange">n</span><span style="color:yellow">e</span><span style="color:green">r</span><span style="color:blue">g</span><span style="color:purple">y</span> <span style="color:gray">X</span>]] [[User talk:Energy X|∞]] 23:16, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::::It could be, the easier a site is to navigate and use, the more people will probably use it. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  23:23, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

::::It could be, the easier a site is to navigate and use, the more people will probably use it. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  23:23, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

:::::I'm against the move for the reasons Deltaneos put forth. I don't like the new changes on Wikia, but I feel we'd lose more from forking that from staying where we are. If the wiki does fork, I will of course go with it; I love this community.   

:::::I'm against the move for the reasons Deltaneos put forth. I don't like the new changes on Wikia, but I feel we'd lose more from forking that from staying where we are. If the wiki does fork, I will of course go with it; I love this community.   

:::::I think forking would be better for the ''editors''. In my opinion, our primary concern shouldn't be those who edit, it should be those who don't. The readers. The people who use this site as a reference. I feel forking would hurt them. However, On that note, if we fork, we would do well to inform everyone we can of it. Post on any and all YGO-related forums about it. Those who use Dueling Network can stick a link in their profiles or something too. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 23:37, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

:::::I think forking would be better for the ''editors''. In my opinion, our primary concern shouldn't be those who edit, it should be those who don't. The readers. The people who use this site as a reference. I feel forking would hurt them. However, On that note, if we fork, we would do well to inform everyone we can of it. Post on any and all YGO-related forums about it. Those who use Dueling Network can stick a link in their profiles or something too. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 23:37, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Two questions: Would both sites continue to be updated, and does Curse support mobile access as much? [[User:Tarix3245|Tarix3245]] ([[User talk:Tarix3245|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tarix3245|contribs]]) 03:04, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Two questions: Would both sites continue to be updated, and does Curse support mobile access as much? [[User:Tarix3245|Tarix3245]] ([[User talk:Tarix3245|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tarix3245|contribs]]) 03:04, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

TTF, you mention that this would tie in perfectly with a planned future move of Curse. I have a direct line of communication with a Curse employee (I kinda have to, considering I'm an administrator of the [http://minecraftwiki.net Minecraft Wiki]), and have actually asked her in the not-too-distant past how Curse would likely respond to a request from us to move, and she said it would be likely that Curse would turn us down, since their primary focus is video games, and ours is not. Does your statement mean that Curse has a shift or broadening of focus planned or something? (You can email me if this isn't something that can be discussed publically yet, or point me to the Curse employee I should get in touch with for more information.)<br />I've also broached the subject with Delt in the past (around the same time I did so with my Curse contact), and his reservations largely haven't changed since then. They're valid points, and having had time to think about them, I largely have to agree with him. We do have one thing that could massively help, though; if we could manage to make the move coincide with the deployment of the [[Forum:Card article redesign|new card article layout]], so that the Curse fork uses the new layout but this wiki still uses {{t|CardTable2}}, I think that would massively help convince people to move with us. Another possibility that I also touched on in that forum discussion is a Wikimedia Wikidata-like setup: if Curse could set up a central repository for media files and for basic information (basically, just about everything we currently stuff into SMW properties), it would greatly reduce the amount of work that would have to go into setting up new language versions; Curse seems to love the idea of offering different language versions of their wikis, if my experience on the Minecraft Wiki is any indication. The only problem with that is that the [https://www.wikidata.org original implementation] of the Wikidata concept is currently still in its infancy, only handling interwikis, though infobox information (and possibly other types of data) is planned for the future.<br />One last point: Wikia has previously shown no hesitation to strip editors' userrights on wikis that have forked. I have no data, anecdotal or otherwise, to back this up, but it's not too much of a stretch for them to jump from this to stripping userrights on other Wikia wikis or even globally, and there's also the possibility they could this as a reason to refuse future requests (such as a wiki adoption or bot flag request) from such editors. I would like to think Wikia is generally too reasonable for this to actually happen, but I still hesitate at the thought of it. <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」^{[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]}</span> 06:06, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

TTF, you mention that this would tie in perfectly with a planned future move of Curse. I have a direct line of communication with a Curse employee (I kinda have to, considering I'm an administrator of the [http://minecraftwiki.net Minecraft Wiki]), and have actually asked her in the not-too-distant past how Curse would likely respond to a request from us to move, and she said it would be likely that Curse would turn us down, since their primary focus is video games, and ours is not. Does your statement mean that Curse has a shift or broadening of focus planned or something? (You can email me if this isn't something that can be discussed publically yet, or point me to the Curse employee I should get in touch with for more information.)<br />I've also broached the subject with Delt in the past (around the same time I did so with my Curse contact), and his reservations largely haven't changed since then. They're valid points, and having had time to think about them, I largely have to agree with him. We do have one thing that could massively help, though; if we could manage to make the move coincide with the deployment of the [[Forum:Card article redesign|new card article layout]], so that the Curse fork uses the new layout but this wiki still uses {{t|CardTable2}}, I think that would massively help convince people to move with us. Another possibility that I also touched on in that forum discussion is a Wikimedia Wikidata-like setup: if Curse could set up a central repository for media files and for basic information (basically, just about everything we currently stuff into SMW properties), it would greatly reduce the amount of work that would have to go into setting up new language versions; Curse seems to love the idea of offering different language versions of their wikis, if my experience on the Minecraft Wiki is any indication. The only problem with that is that the [https://www.wikidata.org original implementation] of the Wikidata concept is currently still in its infancy, only handling interwikis, though infobox information (and possibly other types of data) is planned for the future.<br />One last point: Wikia has previously shown no hesitation to strip editors' userrights on wikis that have forked. I have no data, anecdotal or otherwise, to back this up, but it's not too much of a stretch for them to jump from this to stripping userrights on other Wikia wikis or even globally, and there's also the possibility they could this as a reason to refuse future requests (such as a wiki adoption or bot flag request) from such editors. I would like to think Wikia is generally too reasonable for this to actually happen, but I still hesitate at the thought of it. <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」^{[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]}</span> 06:06, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

:The new CardTable template would be something that would help the move immensely. My curse contact is ''Donovan Duncan'', who is the current VP of Marketing and Sale for Curse. I can have a greater depth of conversion on the Chat channel rather than here. As for Wikia stripping editor's of their rights, I can't conclusively say what they would do. Some editors from WoWWiki did get their rights revoked, however.

:The new CardTable template would be something that would help the move immensely. My curse contact is ''Donovan Duncan'', who is the current VP of Marketing and Sale for Curse. I can have a greater depth of conversion on the Chat channel rather than here. As for Wikia stripping editor's of their rights, I can't conclusively say what they would do. Some editors from WoWWiki did get their rights revoked, however.

Wikia hasn't been too kind to us lately, but it's not '''that''' bad. Moving everything seems like it would be a bit of a hassle. Also, would this site be deleted if we did move? Would it simply stop being  

Wikia hasn't been too kind to us lately, but it's not '''that''' bad. Moving everything seems like it would be a bit of a hassle. Also, would this site be deleted if we did move? Would it simply stop being  

I rejected the "Curse" site option, as it's just pointless and waste of the time. If you wish to argue, go read Delta's comment up above, he struck the good points. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 13:21, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

I rejected the "Curse" site option, as it's just pointless and waste of the time. If you wish to argue, go read Delta's comment up above, he struck the good points. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 13:21, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::My point was this: How many new people would see the new site? Again, they would end up on the Wikia site first in most cases. Moving would hurt new users because they wouldn't be able to find us. Those that do would have their experience improved, yes. Let me clear: I hate the Wikia skin, I hate the social media stuff, but I consider them to be necessary evils to deal with. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:30, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::My point was this: How many new people would see the new site? Again, they would end up on the Wikia site first in most cases. Moving would hurt new users because they wouldn't be able to find us. Those that do would have their experience improved, yes. Let me clear: I hate the Wikia skin, I hate the social media stuff, but I consider them to be necessary evils to deal with. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:30, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::::Many people? Yes. Enough people? No. You keep talking about "this transition" as if its definitely happening. Which it isn't until this discussion is through and more people have weighed in. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:37, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::::Many people? Yes. Enough people? No. You keep talking about "this transition" as if its definitely happening. Which it isn't until this discussion is through and more people have weighed in. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:37, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::::::I'm willing to help. As I said, if we fork, I will come along. The majority of my free time is spent on this wiki, in this community. If it forks, I'll go with it, even if I don't fully agree with the idea. You haven't convinced me yet - and I want to be convinced. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:50, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::::::I'm willing to help. As I said, if we fork, I will come along. The majority of my free time is spent on this wiki, in this community. If it forks, I'll go with it, even if I don't fully agree with the idea. You haven't convinced me yet - and I want to be convinced. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:50, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

If the site on Wikia cannot be shut down, then it's pointless. We'd just give the current content over to other editors, and then try to compete with our own work. Plus, don't you think it would be wise to wait for that "what Curse have planned" to actually come into life ''before'' comitting? The user experience here isn't that bad. We should only take such drastic measures if Wikia forces something ''really'' bad. --[[User:Eps01|Eps01]] ([[User talk:Eps01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eps01|contribs]]) 22:06, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

If the site on Wikia cannot be shut down, then it's pointless. We'd just give the current content over to other editors, and then try to compete with our own work. Plus, don't you think it would be wise to wait for that "what Curse have planned" to actually come into life ''before'' comitting? The user experience here isn't that bad. We should only take such drastic measures if Wikia forces something ''really'' bad. --[[User:Eps01|Eps01]] ([[User talk:Eps01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eps01|contribs]]) 22:06, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

:::Wait, wait, wait. What?! I don't know much about Curse, but that would be part of the deal? Contact with Konami and official recognition? Can you explain this further? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 22:31, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

:::Wait, wait, wait. What?! I don't know much about Curse, but that would be part of the deal? Contact with Konami and official recognition? Can you explain this further? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 22:31, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

:::::Hmm, very interesting, but it leaves me curious how it would affect our anime and manga stuff. I somehow can't see Konami endorsing our use of screencaps, manga scans and the like, though. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::Hmm, very interesting, but it leaves me curious how it would affect our anime and manga stuff. I somehow can't see Konami endorsing our use of screencaps, manga scans and the like, though. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::I was under the impression that fair use was a thing specific to wikis that wikis use to avoid copyright infringement. A quick google search reveals I was wrong. I'd honestly not heard of fair use anywhere but wikis before. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:58, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::I was under the impression that fair use was a thing specific to wikis that wikis use to avoid copyright infringement. A quick google search reveals I was wrong. I'd honestly not heard of fair use anywhere but wikis before. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:58, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::I'm not really familiar with this "fair use" law, but if the criteria is that we only use "what we need"... Well, there's an expression in the law that "reasonable minds can differ" on the interpretation of different phrases. We might decide that certain scans from the Manga are "necessary," but Konami might disagree.  I'm not saying there would be definitely be a disagreement about the meaning, but when one gets into vaguely worded legislation, isn't it a potential issue? Also, even if lawyers haven't pressed charges in similar cases in the past, that's no guarantee that they wouldn't press charges here. If Konami's people decide that they've got a case and that pressing charges would be beneficial to them, they might well choose beneficial action over maintaining the status quo. (By the way, if I'm misunderstanding "fair use" laws, please just ignore me.)--[[Special:Contributions/50.1.51.42|50.1.51.42]] ([[User talk:50.1.51.42|talk]]) 01:06, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::I'm not really familiar with this "fair use" law, but if the criteria is that we only use "what we need"... Well, there's an expression in the law that "reasonable minds can differ" on the interpretation of different phrases. We might decide that certain scans from the Manga are "necessary," but Konami might disagree.  I'm not saying there would be definitely be a disagreement about the meaning, but when one gets into vaguely worded legislation, isn't it a potential issue? Also, even if lawyers haven't pressed charges in similar cases in the past, that's no guarantee that they wouldn't press charges here. If Konami's people decide that they've got a case and that pressing charges would be beneficial to them, they might well choose beneficial action over maintaining the status quo. (By the way, if I'm misunderstanding "fair use" laws, please just ignore me.)--[[Special:Contributions/50.1.51.42|50.1.51.42]] ([[User talk:50.1.51.42|talk]]) 01:06, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::All right. Thanks so much for the informative answer! One more thing: I noticed a recurring argument here where one side argues that a switch will lose some of the internet traffic to the site, and the other side responds by arguing that the switch will make the wiki easier to use. In my mind, this wiki exists to help people find out whatever they need about Yugioh. If a switch causes a fall in traffic, less people will be helped by the wiki. On the other hand, if we stick with the current, worse format, a certain number of fans will be discouraged by the format and leave. So, from where I'm standing, it looks like either way this community won't be able to enhance as many people's Yugioh experience; in other words, it won't serve its purpose as well. Do you see a solution to this problem?--[[Special:Contributions/50.1.51.42|50.1.51.42]] ([[User talk:50.1.51.42|talk]]) 01:51, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::All right. Thanks so much for the informative answer! One more thing: I noticed a recurring argument here where one side argues that a switch will lose some of the internet traffic to the site, and the other side responds by arguing that the switch will make the wiki easier to use. In my mind, this wiki exists to help people find out whatever they need about Yugioh. If a switch causes a fall in traffic, less people will be helped by the wiki. On the other hand, if we stick with the current, worse format, a certain number of fans will be discouraged by the format and leave. So, from where I'm standing, it looks like either way this community won't be able to enhance as many people's Yugioh experience; in other words, it won't serve its purpose as well. Do you see a solution to this problem?--[[Special:Contributions/50.1.51.42|50.1.51.42]] ([[User talk:50.1.51.42|talk]]) 01:51, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Konami getting on board is also possible on Wikia, as has been pointed out. Is there no interest in pursuing that venture here instead of on Curse? Sure, any new site will take time to build traffic, but do have any solid numbers on this? Another site in a similar situation that ''did'' build up enough traffic. Anything like that? "I know we'll get more traffic isn't good enough for me". As I've said, I'll move with the wiki if the fork happens, but I can still be against the fork itself. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 05:09, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Konami getting on board is also possible on Wikia, as has been pointed out. Is there no interest in pursuing that venture here instead of on Curse? Sure, any new site will take time to build traffic, but do have any solid numbers on this? Another site in a similar situation that ''did'' build up enough traffic. Anything like that? "I know we'll get more traffic isn't good enough for me". As I've said, I'll move with the wiki if the fork happens, but I can still be against the fork itself. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 05:09, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::I realize that and that's what we do now - we use what we need. My point was would Konami still want us to do that if we were actually affiliated with them? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 03:27, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::I realize that and that's what we do now - we use what we need. My point was would Konami still want us to do that if we were actually affiliated with them? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 03:27, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::Attorneys will always find a problem, even if there is none :) . This is a matter of interests. I'd imagine they wouldn't be fond of spoilers for the anime and manga. --[[User:Eps01|Eps01]] ([[User talk:Eps01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eps01|contribs]]) 12:12, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::Attorneys will always find a problem, even if there is none :) . This is a matter of interests. I'd imagine they wouldn't be fond of spoilers for the anime and manga. --[[User:Eps01|Eps01]] ([[User talk:Eps01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eps01|contribs]]) 12:12, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::::That's not the point. Would the English branch of Konami want a site affiliated with them spoiling anime and manga information that has not been dubbed/released in English? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 15:16, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::::That's not the point. Would the English branch of Konami want a site affiliated with them spoiling anime and manga information that has not been dubbed/released in English? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 15:16, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Maybe, but it makes it so that we cannot count on Konami's support without sacrifices. --[[User:Eps01|Eps01]] ([[User talk:Eps01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eps01|contribs]]) 18:39, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Maybe, but it makes it so that we cannot count on Konami's support without sacrifices. --[[User:Eps01|Eps01]] ([[User talk:Eps01|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Eps01|contribs]]) 18:39, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Would we be able to keep the same account log in as we do in this wikia? [[User:EQ1|EQ1]] ([[User talk:EQ1|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/EQ1|contribs]]) 22:57, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Would we be able to keep the same account log in as we do in this wikia? [[User:EQ1|EQ1]] ([[User talk:EQ1|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/EQ1|contribs]]) 22:57, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

::How would we claim a username anyway, just post on a page somewhere in the *possible* new wiki? Also, if Konami might actually recognize us as a fansite, I'd totally be in for it. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  01:43, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::How would we claim a username anyway, just post on a page somewhere in the *possible* new wiki? Also, if Konami might actually recognize us as a fansite, I'd totally be in for it. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  01:43, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::::From what I understand, you would enter your name on the new wiki, that would give you a code made of random letters and numbers. You then edit your user page on this wiki while logged in and mention that code in your edit summary. That would prove that the person trying to reclaim the account is its owner. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:53, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::::From what I understand, you would enter your name on the new wiki, that would give you a code made of random letters and numbers. You then edit your user page on this wiki while logged in and mention that code in your edit summary. That would prove that the person trying to reclaim the account is its owner. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:53, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::Would we still be able to edit trivia page, making talk pages and stuff like that? --[[User:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">E.</span>]][[User Talk:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">G.G.</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/NexusShiker|My Contributions]]) 15:25, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::Would we still be able to edit trivia page, making talk pages and stuff like that? --[[User:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">E.</span>]][[User Talk:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">G.G.</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/NexusShiker|My Contributions]]) 15:25, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::And what about unregistered users? Will it still be possible for them to edit pages? [[User:Dunkles Magiermädchen|Dunkles Magiermädchen]] ([[User talk:Dunkles Magiermädchen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dunkles Magiermädchen|contribs]]) 19:23, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::And what about unregistered users? Will it still be possible for them to edit pages? [[User:Dunkles Magiermädchen|Dunkles Magiermädchen]] ([[User talk:Dunkles Magiermädchen|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dunkles Magiermädchen|contribs]]) 19:23, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::That's unfortunate. We have a number of unregistered users who are great contributors. They simply prefer to contribute anonymously. Most IP edits are not vandalism, they're simply the edits everyone notices the most. Is it possible that was just a personal choice by Wowpedia editors and wouldn't be necessary. I see more disadvantages to disabling anon contribution than advantages. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:09, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::That's unfortunate. We have a number of unregistered users who are great contributors. They simply prefer to contribute anonymously. Most IP edits are not vandalism, they're simply the edits everyone notices the most. Is it possible that was just a personal choice by Wowpedia editors and wouldn't be necessary. I see more disadvantages to disabling anon contribution than advantages. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:09, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::::::The ability to let unregistered users edit is optional. [http://www.guildwiki.org GulidWiki] is on Curse and allows unregistered editing. The ''World of Warcraft'' wiki disallowed unregistered editing while they were still on Wikia and maintained that after the fork. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:50, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::::::The ability to let unregistered users edit is optional. [http://www.guildwiki.org GulidWiki] is on Curse and allows unregistered editing. The ''World of Warcraft'' wiki disallowed unregistered editing while they were still on Wikia and maintained that after the fork. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:50, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the ''What we'' section, and if we get official recognition from Konami, it might be worth. One question: will this Wikia redirect the users to the Curse website? For example, you go to a page, then somewhere in that page will be a link saying something like "You can find more information in (...)" or "Check also this page in (...)", or it will be only announced on the Main Page that the users should use the other website? --[[User:Missign0|Missign0]] ([[User talk:Missign0|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missign0|contribs]]) 16:45, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the ''What we'' section, and if we get official recognition from Konami, it might be worth. One question: will this Wikia redirect the users to the Curse website? For example, you go to a page, then somewhere in that page will be a link saying something like "You can find more information in (...)" or "Check also this page in (...)", or it will be only announced on the Main Page that the users should use the other website? --[[User:Missign0|Missign0]] ([[User talk:Missign0|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missign0|contribs]]) 16:45, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::Wikia would not permit that link in the card table. They've removed similar stuff from other wikis that forked for using the Wikia service to advertise a rival site. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:50, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::Wikia would not permit that link in the card table. They've removed similar stuff from other wikis that forked for using the Wikia service to advertise a rival site. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:50, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

One other thought I just had: what would be the possibility of the French, German, Polish, and Spanish wikis from here also moving? Needless to say, this would require discussions on each of those wikis to establish consensus for the move, and if the timeline of moving this wiki in mid-December is to be kept, they'd probably have to be moved later, but if it happened that would help with supporting more international editors (e.g. Dunkles heavily edits the German wiki currently). --{{User|Dinoguy1000}} as [[Special:Contributions/67.58.244.82|67.58.244.82]] ([[User talk:67.58.244.82|talk]]) 19:51, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

One other thought I just had: what would be the possibility of the French, German, Polish, and Spanish wikis from here also moving? Needless to say, this would require discussions on each of those wikis to establish consensus for the move, and if the timeline of moving this wiki in mid-December is to be kept, they'd probably have to be moved later, but if it happened that would help with supporting more international editors (e.g. Dunkles heavily edits the German wiki currently). --{{User|Dinoguy1000}} as [[Special:Contributions/67.58.244.82|67.58.244.82]] ([[User talk:67.58.244.82|talk]]) 19:51, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Questions

Questions

* We already have an IRC channel. Would the hypothetical new one be on another server or what would be the advantage of creating another one?

* We already have an IRC channel. Would the hypothetical new one be on another server or what would be the advantage of creating another one?

* The biggest problem with the mobile skin here is that we can't edit the CSS, through internal, external or inline styles. If we have access to the CSS, I think we could fix every problem with the skin. Has anyone ever contacted Wikia about enabling that much? I know they gave us the &lt;mobile&gt; and &lt;nomobile&gt; tags, but given the order stuff gets parsed in, there is very little use for them.

* The biggest problem with the mobile skin here is that we can't edit the CSS, through internal, external or inline styles. If we have access to the CSS, I think we could fix every problem with the skin. Has anyone ever contacted Wikia about enabling that much? I know they gave us the &lt;mobile&gt; and &lt;nomobile&gt; tags, but given the order stuff gets parsed in, there is very little use for them.

-- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:50, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

-- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:50, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

:* We could use the existing IRC on Freenode.

:* We could use the existing IRC on Freenode.

:* Curse already work with them in some areas. Far easier talk with someone like Konami when you have the clout that Curse have. It's not something we could accomplish on our own.

:* Curse already work with them in some areas. Far easier talk with someone like Konami when you have the clout that Curse have. It's not something we could accomplish on our own.

Curse Networks are primarily aimed at games; as such, the sites are categorized as "Games" sites. Many institutions and jobs block game sites, mine being one of them. People will have more difficulty accessing the site under Curse than our current one (which is listed as "Reference" according to [http://www1.k9webprotection.com/support/check-site-rating this site]) during the day if they work or go to school if we go under "Games" as opposed to "Reference". --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 23:37, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Curse Networks are primarily aimed at games; as such, the sites are categorized as "Games" sites. Many institutions and jobs block game sites, mine being one of them. People will have more difficulty accessing the site under Curse than our current one (which is listed as "Reference" according to [http://www1.k9webprotection.com/support/check-site-rating this site]) during the day if they work or go to school if we go under "Games" as opposed to "Reference". --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 23:37, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

::With all do respect, you're missing my point. Our target demographic, children and teens, will not be able to log on to our site during their lunch breaks or while they're at the library to look up rulings on our site while they Duel with their friends anymore. ''Anyone'' with a job won't be able to check out the site on the coffee breaks. Currently, as a "Reference" website, we're open to viewing from anyone anywhere. We're going to lose people who like it here if we move. We're going to lose people because we'll no longer be the top result in Google searches if we move. We're going to lose people because because the site will no longer be as accessible to people everywhere if we move. You didn't even seem bothered when we thought unregistered users wouldn't be allowed to edit. Just how small are you trying to make the community? --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 00:05, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

::With all do respect, you're missing my point. Our target demographic, children and teens, will not be able to log on to our site during their lunch breaks or while they're at the library to look up rulings on our site while they Duel with their friends anymore. ''Anyone'' with a job won't be able to check out the site on the coffee breaks. Currently, as a "Reference" website, we're open to viewing from anyone anywhere. We're going to lose people who like it here if we move. We're going to lose people because we'll no longer be the top result in Google searches if we move. We're going to lose people because because the site will no longer be as accessible to people everywhere if we move. You didn't even seem bothered when we thought unregistered users wouldn't be allowed to edit. Just how small are you trying to make the community? --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 00:05, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

::::Let's break down those one by one:

::::Let's break down those one by one:

::::I have already acknowledged that we will lose people; Also, "anywhere"? My previous employer blocked all .net domains, regardless of content. I couldn't access '''this''' site from work, even though it never had a "Games" categorisation (which, by the way, is completely arbitrary, and is down to the software that the Employer uses. You make it sound like a committee decides what category a website gets). I was, however, able to browse other Curse sites, which really puts your claim to bed. Not every employer blocks gaming websites.  

::::I have already acknowledged that we will lose people; Also, "anywhere"? My previous employer blocked all .net domains, regardless of content. I couldn't access '''this''' site from work, even though it never had a "Games" categorisation (which, by the way, is completely arbitrary, and is down to the software that the Employer uses. You make it sound like a committee decides what category a website gets). I was, however, able to browse other Curse sites, which really puts your claim to bed. Not every employer blocks gaming websites.  

I believe this site to be pretty good anywhere; it is mainly a database for Yu-gi-oh.

I believe this site to be pretty good anywhere; it is mainly a database for Yu-gi-oh.

::3)The way the wiki is edited now will not change. The Skin will be different, which will greatly enhance the appeal of viewing it.

::3)The way the wiki is edited now will not change. The Skin will be different, which will greatly enhance the appeal of viewing it.

::4)There are no twists or loops. You would not be required to get a new account if you wanted to view, or edit articles.

::4)There are no twists or loops. You would not be required to get a new account if you wanted to view, or edit articles.

I got a question about the users part. It's been said that we keep our accounts; I'm not registered in curse, I tried to see if I was registered and I'm not, so how will that work? --[[User:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">E.</span>]][[User Talk:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">G.G.</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/NexusShiker|My Contributions]]) 19:07, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

I got a question about the users part. It's been said that we keep our accounts; I'm not registered in curse, I tried to see if I was registered and I'm not, so how will that work? --[[User:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">E.</span>]][[User Talk:NexusShiker|<span style="color:gold; font-family:Andalus; font-size:15pt">G.G.</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/NexusShiker|My Contributions]]) 19:07, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

The skin is very vital though in my opnion. Can anyone please show me the layout? If it's the same then I go with 'Curse' but there's other points too listed in my comments. :( Thanks,

The skin is very vital though in my opnion. Can anyone please show me the layout? If it's the same then I go with 'Curse' but there's other points too listed in my comments. :( Thanks,

I guess hosting another fork is just how wikia treats us. --[[User:Deathpyre|Deathpyre]] ([[User talk:Deathpyre|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deathpyre|contribs]]) 01:51, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

I guess hosting another fork is just how wikia treats us. --[[User:Deathpyre|Deathpyre]] ([[User talk:Deathpyre|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deathpyre|contribs]]) 01:51, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::I decided to check one of the character pages and cross-check it to ours, they're similar (They are about the same show and same character), but organized differently than ours (Slightly) and they focus exclusively on the English version. Also, if you google Yu-Gi-Oh ZEXAL, the first link is to this wiki. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  14:05, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

:::I decided to check one of the character pages and cross-check it to ours, they're similar (They are about the same show and same character), but organized differently than ours (Slightly) and they focus exclusively on the English version. Also, if you google Yu-Gi-Oh ZEXAL, the first link is to this wiki. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  14:05, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

::::It honestly wouldn't surprise me if that wiki straight-up copy/pasted from what we have. That wiki's founder has tried to get people here to edit there and I recall him also asking us to remove ''ZEXAL'' content from this wiki. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 19:33, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

::::It honestly wouldn't surprise me if that wiki straight-up copy/pasted from what we have. That wiki's founder has tried to get people here to edit there and I recall him also asking us to remove ''ZEXAL'' content from this wiki. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 19:33, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

::::::If they refuse to comply, that puts them squarely in violation of the CC-BY-SA license that all text on Wikia is licensed under, which provides us (and Wikia) a legal course of action should we choose to take it that far (though I'd much rather not, myself). <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」^{[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]}</span> 22:29, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

::::::If they refuse to comply, that puts them squarely in violation of the CC-BY-SA license that all text on Wikia is licensed under, which provides us (and Wikia) a legal course of action should we choose to take it that far (though I'd much rather not, myself). <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」^{[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]}</span> 22:29, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::A similar thing occurred between runescape.wikia and the Runescape Wiki by Jagex. For their argument, runescape.wikia used several compare/contrast examples, some of which can be seen [http://services.runescape.com/m=rswiki/en/Comments:Bandos here]. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 22:44, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::A similar thing occurred between runescape.wikia and the Runescape Wiki by Jagex. For their argument, runescape.wikia used several compare/contrast examples, some of which can be seen [http://services.runescape.com/m=rswiki/en/Comments:Bandos here]. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 22:44, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::: We need to take time stamped screenshots that we will compile as evidence. Then we can wreak our revenge........--[[User:Deathpyre|Deathpyre]] ([[User talk:Deathpyre|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deathpyre|contribs]]) 03:24, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::: We need to take time stamped screenshots that we will compile as evidence. Then we can wreak our revenge........--[[User:Deathpyre|Deathpyre]] ([[User talk:Deathpyre|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deathpyre|contribs]]) 03:24, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

There was a point about how "following" can be changed to "watching". This can be changed via your site mediawiki messages. For example, [[MediaWiki:Watching]] is one of those that can be tweaked.  It takes a bit of searching to find the right pages sometimes, but we can help with that if you're stuck.

There was a point about how "following" can be changed to "watching". This can be changed via your site mediawiki messages. For example, [[MediaWiki:Watching]] is one of those that can be tweaked.  It takes a bit of searching to find the right pages sometimes, but we can help with that if you're stuck.

I'm not sure what TwoTailedFox meant about renaming accounts being easier... the only thing I can think of is the time it takes to check all wikis and change your contributions on them where you've edited. Because Curse does not have single sign on (you have to register a new account for each of their wikis), the process here is a little more difficult. But either way, name changes can be done simply by asking us via [[Special:Contact]]. If I've misunderstood, please let me know.

I'm not sure what TwoTailedFox meant about renaming accounts being easier... the only thing I can think of is the time it takes to check all wikis and change your contributions on them where you've edited. Because Curse does not have single sign on (you have to register a new account for each of their wikis), the process here is a little more difficult. But either way, name changes can be done simply by asking us via [[Special:Contact]]. If I've misunderstood, please let me know.

It's interesting to hear TwoTailed fox talk about official recognition from Konami, because that sort of arrangement is something Wikia is ''very'' interested in for wikis here. It's not always simple, for example we have found that some Japanese companies want a level of control over the content that we just won't accept. A company that becomes affiliated with us and with a wiki on Wikia has to agree that the community members have the freedom to contribute the content they choose to contribute, as well as manage the communities. And, as Cheesedude mentioned, some companies aren't always keen on being associated with wikis that use fair use images, or who write about areas not directly associated with them. But that said, we've already had some wonderful successes with things like the official status of EQ2i Wiki with Sony Online Entertainment, a community interview with a Faster Than Light developer, and even one wiki that had a live chat with one of the actors they had written about. The Planetside wiki is another Official Community for Sony and is a little different than EQ2i as the Planetside wiki was built from scratch as an Official Community.

It's interesting to hear TwoTailed fox talk about official recognition from Konami, because that sort of arrangement is something Wikia is ''very'' interested in for wikis here. It's not always simple, for example we have found that some Japanese companies want a level of control over the content that we just won't accept. A company that becomes affiliated with us and with a wiki on Wikia has to agree that the community members have the freedom to contribute the content they choose to contribute, as well as manage the communities. And, as Cheesedude mentioned, some companies aren't always keen on being associated with wikis that use fair use images, or who write about areas not directly associated with them. But that said, we've already had some wonderful successes with things like the official status of EQ2i Wiki with Sony Online Entertainment, a community interview with a Faster Than Light developer, and even one wiki that had a live chat with one of the actors they had written about. The Planetside wiki is another Official Community for Sony and is a little different than EQ2i as the Planetside wiki was built from scratch as an Official Community.

If you'd like to learn more about what these guys do, George talks about some of our Official Communities and other stuff he's been working on [http://www.wikia.com/Video_Games/Lizzunchbox#Official_.27Official_Community.27_Update here], and Eric's next big thing is a [http://www.wikia.com/Entertainment/ToMoro#Exciting_News_With_More_to_Follow..._Wikia_.5BLIVE.5D.21.21.21 ''major'' event] that's planned for Spring next year - I can't wait for that one!

If you'd like to learn more about what these guys do, George talks about some of our Official Communities and other stuff he's been working on [http://www.wikia.com/Video_Games/Lizzunchbox#Official_.27Official_Community.27_Update here], and Eric's next big thing is a [http://www.wikia.com/Entertainment/ToMoro#Exciting_News_With_More_to_Follow..._Wikia_.5BLIVE.5D.21.21.21 ''major'' event] that's planned for Spring next year - I can't wait for that one!

<moved from within my comment>

<moved from within my comment>

<end of moved text>

<end of moved text>

::TwoTailedFox: I've moved your comments out from the middle of mine, it makes it harder to parse if you insert yours that way, so I ask that you leave my full comment intact.  Thanks

::TwoTailedFox: I've moved your comments out from the middle of mine, it makes it harder to parse if you insert yours that way, so I ask that you leave my full comment intact.  Thanks

:[Edit Conflict] On trafficking, the only concerns were how much traffic Curse Networks could obtain from the wiki. I didn't see any comment here worrying about traffic being taken away from the wiki; rather, I saw comments worrying about how much traffic we could take '''with us''' from the wiki. I liked how you answered the question from the opposite side of view. Clever ;).  In any case, the only reason I would want the shift is if we managed to bring the fanbase with us, and of course, official Konami affiliation and support, both of which you seemed to answer efficiently in your well-thought out statement. I think I will let others take it from here, but 1 last thing: I am curious as to how you found out about this. Naturally, it is in your best interest to resolve situations like this ASAP, but still. In advance, thank you for the time you took in addressing our concerns. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 03:01, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

:[Edit Conflict] On trafficking, the only concerns were how much traffic Curse Networks could obtain from the wiki. I didn't see any comment here worrying about traffic being taken away from the wiki; rather, I saw comments worrying about how much traffic we could take '''with us''' from the wiki. I liked how you answered the question from the opposite side of view. Clever ;).  In any case, the only reason I would want the shift is if we managed to bring the fanbase with us, and of course, official Konami affiliation and support, both of which you seemed to answer efficiently in your well-thought out statement. I think I will let others take it from here, but 1 last thing: I am curious as to how you found out about this. Naturally, it is in your best interest to resolve situations like this ASAP, but still. In advance, thank you for the time you took in addressing our concerns. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 03:01, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

   

   

:On mobile. Sannse, my point wasn't about the quality of the content, but about the actual brand being tainted. Wikia in a lot of the wider world is seen as a joke. That new skin is partially the reason why.

:On mobile. Sannse, my point wasn't about the quality of the content, but about the actual brand being tainted. Wikia in a lot of the wider world is seen as a joke. That new skin is partially the reason why.

As long as quality of the articles and frequency of the updates remains the same, I'm not phased either way. Forced to pick, I'd prefer to stay on the Wikia as the background, ads and search engine don't bother me.

As long as quality of the articles and frequency of the updates remains the same, I'm not phased either way. Forced to pick, I'd prefer to stay on the Wikia as the background, ads and search engine don't bother me.

UltimateKuriboh: I've managed to get some information on pre vs post fork pageviews.  They are quite difficult to interpret because there are likely to be other factors causing fluctuations (for example, pageviews always go up when a game is released). I looked at pageviews two months before a fork and then six months after - to give a good span for things to settle. That showed that pageviews on WoWWiki fell by 55%, and on Fallout by 44%.  Pokemon is more recent, so I took the last full month's page views, which were down 12% when compared to 2 months before the fork.

UltimateKuriboh: I've managed to get some information on pre vs post fork pageviews.  They are quite difficult to interpret because there are likely to be other factors causing fluctuations (for example, pageviews always go up when a game is released). I looked at pageviews two months before a fork and then six months after - to give a good span for things to settle. That showed that pageviews on WoWWiki fell by 55%, and on Fallout by 44%.  Pokemon is more recent, so I took the last full month's page views, which were down 12% when compared to 2 months before the fork.

:I want to agree with both Sannse and Fox, to me Wikia, is a company and should make profit, but the majority of ads on this wiki I see without AdBlock are just random and for stuff like cars and whatnot. That kinda interferes with my own user experience, and I can see why Fox would want to move as a reason for it, and the wikia skin does make articles pages longer than they need to be. I don't see why you guys wouldn't be able to create a skin that's easy to navigate, but also improves the displaying of information on the wiki itself. Also, people do at times think of this wiki as a joke or false, even if we don't actually have any fan fiction or bogus rulings, and take care to use official rulings and information, but I think that's just an image problem that we haven't addressed. The main reason I wanted to move was the possible recognition by Konami as an official reference site, but if Wikia can try to get us that as well, and will actually try, then I don't see why we can't stay and let them try, even if some of the updates have been a little unwanted here, like Message Walls. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  22:32, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

:I want to agree with both Sannse and Fox, to me Wikia, is a company and should make profit, but the majority of ads on this wiki I see without AdBlock are just random and for stuff like cars and whatnot. That kinda interferes with my own user experience, and I can see why Fox would want to move as a reason for it, and the wikia skin does make articles pages longer than they need to be. I don't see why you guys wouldn't be able to create a skin that's easy to navigate, but also improves the displaying of information on the wiki itself. Also, people do at times think of this wiki as a joke or false, even if we don't actually have any fan fiction or bogus rulings, and take care to use official rulings and information, but I think that's just an image problem that we haven't addressed. The main reason I wanted to move was the possible recognition by Konami as an official reference site, but if Wikia can try to get us that as well, and will actually try, then I don't see why we can't stay and let them try, even if some of the updates have been a little unwanted here, like Message Walls. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  22:32, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

::Unless you're referring to Wikia spotlights, the kind of ads you see are dictated by things like your geographical location, the subject of the page you're reading, other stuff you've visited or whatever can be used to guess your interests. It's controlled by companies like [[wikipedia:AdSense|Google AdSense]]. If you personally, don't like the ads, you can switch then off in your preferences. If you're worried that they're irrelevant in general, that would result in Wikia earning less revenue from ads.

::Unless you're referring to Wikia spotlights, the kind of ads you see are dictated by things like your geographical location, the subject of the page you're reading, other stuff you've visited or whatever can be used to guess your interests. It's controlled by companies like [[wikipedia:AdSense|Google AdSense]]. If you personally, don't like the ads, you can switch then off in your preferences. If you're worried that they're irrelevant in general, that would result in Wikia earning less revenue from ads.

:::While I'm here, I want to go back to a question I didn't understand earlier.  TwoTailedFox, when you talked about the CC-BY-SA license, I think you were talking about your request for a copy of the images from this wiki?  I know Sean replied to you on that, but just to reply to the question you left here too:  the images on the wiki are not generally under the CC-BY-SA license.  Mostly they are used here as "fair use", and while that works for you, Wikia can't necessarily use fair use for those same images in another form - and certainly can't use it for those images in the form of a dump for you to download.

:::While I'm here, I want to go back to a question I didn't understand earlier.  TwoTailedFox, when you talked about the CC-BY-SA license, I think you were talking about your request for a copy of the images from this wiki?  I know Sean replied to you on that, but just to reply to the question you left here too:  the images on the wiki are not generally under the CC-BY-SA license.  Mostly they are used here as "fair use", and while that works for you, Wikia can't necessarily use fair use for those same images in another form - and certainly can't use it for those images in the form of a dump for you to download.

Just wondering, but should we go ahead and add in a poll, just to see where people actually are on this issue at the moment? --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  01:41, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Just wondering, but should we go ahead and add in a poll, just to see where people actually are on this issue at the moment? --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  01:41, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:A poll would be a bad idea, unless it was organized in the right fashion. It should not be the simple "yes/no" poll, as there should be an option for the '''reason''' why they are voting as well. That way, we could separate votes for silly reasons from the ones for legitimate reasons. Also, in such a poll, you would have to make the questions as unbiased as possible and try to encompass as many broad answers as possible for each question, both of which would be difficult. It would also be best to hide the poll results until voting was concluded, so as not to bias potential voters. TL;DR I am not in favor of a poll; I think it would complicate things further. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 01:59, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:A poll would be a bad idea, unless it was organized in the right fashion. It should not be the simple "yes/no" poll, as there should be an option for the '''reason''' why they are voting as well. That way, we could separate votes for silly reasons from the ones for legitimate reasons. Also, in such a poll, you would have to make the questions as unbiased as possible and try to encompass as many broad answers as possible for each question, both of which would be difficult. It would also be best to hide the poll results until voting was concluded, so as not to bias potential voters. TL;DR I am not in favor of a poll; I think it would complicate things further. --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 01:59, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

My thoughts:  

My thoughts:  

::The policies of Wikia have changed a lot since 2005, when the website was first launched. We had Monobook by default, and we had no ads. I think a better user experience can be provided. I also challenge your notion that the website would be dead within six months

::The policies of Wikia have changed a lot since 2005, when the website was first launched. We had Monobook by default, and we had no ads. I think a better user experience can be provided. I also challenge your notion that the website would be dead within six months

::If I didn't think people cared, I would never have voiced this proposal. Also, I find your "temper tantrum" comment to be highly offensive.

::If I didn't think people cared, I would never have voiced this proposal. Also, I find your "temper tantrum" comment to be highly offensive.

:::I ask you this: What's the point of having superior content if a far smaller amount of people are going to see it? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:19, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::I ask you this: What's the point of having superior content if a far smaller amount of people are going to see it? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:19, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

My example of card tips also makes me wonder what would happen when say, a new and big card came out. I'd be willing to bet the two sites would be essentially stealing tips from each other, along with bits of trivia, various card arts, etc, etc, etc. because there is absolutely no stopping that from happening. It might go beyond "big" cards, and carry on to just about everything. This makes me think, not only would a Curse version be doomed to fail but it's existance would also be outright redundant/pointless. [[User:Randomtempaccountname|Randomtempaccountname]] ([[User talk:Randomtempaccountname|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Randomtempaccountname|contribs]]) 18:15, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

My example of card tips also makes me wonder what would happen when say, a new and big card came out. I'd be willing to bet the two sites would be essentially stealing tips from each other, along with bits of trivia, various card arts, etc, etc, etc. because there is absolutely no stopping that from happening. It might go beyond "big" cards, and carry on to just about everything. This makes me think, not only would a Curse version be doomed to fail but it's existance would also be outright redundant/pointless. [[User:Randomtempaccountname|Randomtempaccountname]] ([[User talk:Randomtempaccountname|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Randomtempaccountname|contribs]]) 18:15, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

<moved from within my comment - sannse>

<moved from within my comment - sannse>

:::So then tell me this. What if Curse is wrong and to be affiliated, Konami would demand some form of control over the wiki's content? What happens then? We go through with it and let them? Or do we back out of the affiliation? If it's the former, I want no part of this and I couldn't even guarantee my moving to the new wiki. Don't tell me "I don't see it being it an issue" or "its not likely". This is a what-if scenario. What if it is an issue? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:19, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::So then tell me this. What if Curse is wrong and to be affiliated, Konami would demand some form of control over the wiki's content? What happens then? We go through with it and let them? Or do we back out of the affiliation? If it's the former, I want no part of this and I couldn't even guarantee my moving to the new wiki. Don't tell me "I don't see it being it an issue" or "its not likely". This is a what-if scenario. What if it is an issue? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 00:19, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

::I think we can use the old way here, it probably would work best. Not sure where to put it, at the top of the page (Optimal) or somewhere in the middle? --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  21:55, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

::I think we can use the old way here, it probably would work best. Not sure where to put it, at the top of the page (Optimal) or somewhere in the middle? --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  21:55, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

== Several Things ==

== Several Things ==

2. If this wiki were to move, and were to get recognition from Konami, could we not ask Konami to provide a link on their site to the Curse wiki, just like they do for their own strategy site and coverage page? That would probably help to mitigate the loss of viewers. Not entirely, of course, but nothing's perfect.

2. If this wiki were to move, and were to get recognition from Konami, could we not ask Konami to provide a link on their site to the Curse wiki, just like they do for their own strategy site and coverage page? That would probably help to mitigate the loss of viewers. Not entirely, of course, but nothing's perfect.

3. I personally think all wikis should be ad-free, no question, without having to resort to something like this. I think it violates the idea of a wiki to have ads, and if Wikia is going to force its wikis to have ads, then they should all do something about it: move, petition, etc., until Wikia is forced to make all its wikis ad-free. [[Special:Contributions/50.51.16.46|50.51.16.46]] ([[User talk:50.51.16.46|talk]]) 19:15, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

3. I personally think all wikis should be ad-free, no question, without having to resort to something like this. I think it violates the idea of a wiki to have ads, and if Wikia is going to force its wikis to have ads, then they should all do something about it: move, petition, etc., until Wikia is forced to make all its wikis ad-free. [[Special:Contributions/50.51.16.46|50.51.16.46]] ([[User talk:50.51.16.46|talk]]) 19:15, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:You must be new here; if you had looked at '''her''' profile, you would have seen that "he" is actually a "she." Anyways, this is not necessarily selfish, as she is not demanding or forcing us to abandon this idea of forking; she's offering potential ways to resolve this crisis (for the interest of Wikia that she represents, of course) and offering us reasons to not move.  

:You must be new here; if you had looked at '''her''' profile, you would have seen that "he" is actually a "she." Anyways, this is not necessarily selfish, as she is not demanding or forcing us to abandon this idea of forking; she's offering potential ways to resolve this crisis (for the interest of Wikia that she represents, of course) and offering us reasons to not move.  

::You are sort of right about my being new here (I use the wiki a lot for info, but barely if ever edit), and I apologize for calling "her" a "him." Also, I was not saying her whole post was selfish (in fact, I thought the post as whole was very constructive), only the fact that Wikia will not allow forked wikis to inform users of the fork where it would make the most sense for them to do so: on the original version of the wiki. We really have quite the dilemma here. If this wiki wants to provide the best experience for its readers and editors, then it seems they would have to move to Curse. But in doing so, they lose a large portion of these readers and editors, because Wikia will not close the old wiki. To me, there are 2 possible ideal solutions:  

::You are sort of right about my being new here (I use the wiki a lot for info, but barely if ever edit), and I apologize for calling "her" a "him." Also, I was not saying her whole post was selfish (in fact, I thought the post as whole was very constructive), only the fact that Wikia will not allow forked wikis to inform users of the fork where it would make the most sense for them to do so: on the original version of the wiki. We really have quite the dilemma here. If this wiki wants to provide the best experience for its readers and editors, then it seems they would have to move to Curse. But in doing so, they lose a large portion of these readers and editors, because Wikia will not close the old wiki. To me, there are 2 possible ideal solutions:  

:If all wikis should be ad-free, how would they pay for things like hosting? Advertising is Wikia's main income source. They wouldn't be able to afford to put all their sites up, not to mention pay their workers, without ads. Wikipedia can get by without ads because they get a lot of donations. But a non-profit encyclopedia on all branches of human knowledge is bound to attract more benefactors than popular culture fansites, hosted by a for profit company. Wikia do allow some wikis to go ad free for, iirc, $20 US, a month, but this site is too big to avail of that. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:43, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:If all wikis should be ad-free, how would they pay for things like hosting? Advertising is Wikia's main income source. They wouldn't be able to afford to put all their sites up, not to mention pay their workers, without ads. Wikipedia can get by without ads because they get a lot of donations. But a non-profit encyclopedia on all branches of human knowledge is bound to attract more benefactors than popular culture fansites, hosted by a for profit company. Wikia do allow some wikis to go ad free for, iirc, $20 US, a month, but this site is too big to avail of that. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22:43, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, a site like curse would be a bit easier on those of us with less than perfect computers. the sheer volume of noisy video adds has often caused issues with my flash plugin. So, if curse means less/ quiet adds, it will defintiely be a perk. Also, yugioh players care more about the quality of info them most other gamers, after all, 2 words in a ruling or card effect can drastically change a game, as opposed to pokemon or some video game wiki. So, if we can get info directly from konami, that would be very helpful. --[[User:Deathpyre|Deathpyre]] ([[User talk:Deathpyre|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deathpyre|contribs]]) 19:39, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, a site like curse would be a bit easier on those of us with less than perfect computers. the sheer volume of noisy video adds has often caused issues with my flash plugin. So, if curse means less/ quiet adds, it will defintiely be a perk. Also, yugioh players care more about the quality of info them most other gamers, after all, 2 words in a ruling or card effect can drastically change a game, as opposed to pokemon or some video game wiki. So, if we can get info directly from konami, that would be very helpful. --[[User:Deathpyre|Deathpyre]] ([[User talk:Deathpyre|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deathpyre|contribs]]) 19:39, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

I actually like the Wikia skin and have grown accustomed to it over time. The Monobook skin is really dull. If that's what it'll look like on Curse Networks, I can't imagine it attracting a wider audience. This isn't Wikipedia, this is a Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki. I personally don't think there's any need to move, in fact, I think it'd be detrimental in the long-term for this Wiki if we moved. We'd be competing with ourselves for web traffic. We've already established ourselves on Wikia, everyone knows that this is "the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki." That mentality isn't going to disappear easily. Some people are easily turned away by change, too. Ultimately, disregarding the functionality issues, which are only a problem for a very small percentage of the userbase, the skin can be changed or simply adapted to and the ads can be blocked if they become that big of an issue. We stand to lose much more than we gain and we will be playing catch-up with ourselves for months, maybe years, all for things that aren't massive issues to the userbase.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 19:48, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

I actually like the Wikia skin and have grown accustomed to it over time. The Monobook skin is really dull. If that's what it'll look like on Curse Networks, I can't imagine it attracting a wider audience. This isn't Wikipedia, this is a Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki. I personally don't think there's any need to move, in fact, I think it'd be detrimental in the long-term for this Wiki if we moved. We'd be competing with ourselves for web traffic. We've already established ourselves on Wikia, everyone knows that this is "the Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki." That mentality isn't going to disappear easily. Some people are easily turned away by change, too. Ultimately, disregarding the functionality issues, which are only a problem for a very small percentage of the userbase, the skin can be changed or simply adapted to and the ads can be blocked if they become that big of an issue. We stand to lose much more than we gain and we will be playing catch-up with ourselves for months, maybe years, all for things that aren't massive issues to the userbase.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 19:48, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:Also, and sorry if this was asked already, but what kind of "Konami endorsement" would Curse be able to bring us?--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 19:54, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

:Also, and sorry if this was asked already, but what kind of "Konami endorsement" would Curse be able to bring us?--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 19:54, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

50.51.16.46: I think the best comparison is something like: Mars respects your right to eat Hershey bars.  But that doesn't mean they are going to add an advert for Hersheys to every Mars bar ;)  You could call that "selfish", or just... normal.

50.51.16.46: I think the best comparison is something like: Mars respects your right to eat Hershey bars.  But that doesn't mean they are going to add an advert for Hersheys to every Mars bar ;)  You could call that "selfish", or just... normal.

Deathpyre: you shouldn't get any ads here with auto-playing sound.  If you do, please can you [[Special:Contact|send us the details]], and we'll investigate.  You also shouldn't be seeing many ads if you are logged in.  I think it's just the ones on the main page at the moment, all the article ones should be hidden.  Are you seeing something different?  YamiWheeler mentioned blocking the ads... I believe there are plug-ins for most browsers that do this (we ask that wikis don't block ads, but what you do for yourself on your own computer is your business of course :)

Deathpyre: you shouldn't get any ads here with auto-playing sound.  If you do, please can you [[Special:Contact|send us the details]], and we'll investigate.  You also shouldn't be seeing many ads if you are logged in.  I think it's just the ones on the main page at the moment, all the article ones should be hidden.  Are you seeing something different?  YamiWheeler mentioned blocking the ads... I believe there are plug-ins for most browsers that do this (we ask that wikis don't block ads, but what you do for yourself on your own computer is your business of course :)

:I hope no one thought it was 100%, that would be kinda unintelligent of them, but we do want someone to try now that it's been brought up and exposed to everyone's minds. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  00:14, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:I hope no one thought it was 100%, that would be kinda unintelligent of them, but we do want someone to try now that it's been brought up and exposed to everyone's minds. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  00:14, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::That's also something I posted further up on this page as well Cheesedude. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  00:23, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::That's also something I posted further up on this page as well Cheesedude. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  00:23, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

   

   

:::::As far as I know from a few google searches, Konami owns rights to the card game, while Shueisha owns Shonen Jump. Kazuki Takahashi still has the copyright for the actual designs and the original manga was published in Jump. So it makes sense Shueisha would be better to ask in some form as well, seeing as we use manga pages and such here as well. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  20:21, November 24, 2012 (UTC)  

:::::As far as I know from a few google searches, Konami owns rights to the card game, while Shueisha owns Shonen Jump. Kazuki Takahashi still has the copyright for the actual designs and the original manga was published in Jump. So it makes sense Shueisha would be better to ask in some form as well, seeing as we use manga pages and such here as well. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:Black;">Dark </span><span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:LightSlateGray;">Talk</span>]])</span>  20:21, November 24, 2012 (UTC)  

:I have to confess, I was using Wikipedia as my basis for that statement. I only use 2 wikis on a regular basis: Wikipedia, and this one. Rereading my post, I admit it looks a little (ok a lot) unreasonable. I also did not know that getting an account would remove most ads. [[Special:Contributions/50.51.49.93|50.51.49.93]] ([[User talk:50.51.49.93|talk]]) 23:47, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:I have to confess, I was using Wikipedia as my basis for that statement. I only use 2 wikis on a regular basis: Wikipedia, and this one. Rereading my post, I admit it looks a little (ok a lot) unreasonable. I also did not know that getting an account would remove most ads. [[Special:Contributions/50.51.49.93|50.51.49.93]] ([[User talk:50.51.49.93|talk]]) 23:47, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

== Dont move the page. ==

== Dont move the page. ==

[[User:NeoArkadia|NeoArkadia]] ([[User talk:NeoArkadia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NeoArkadia|contribs]]) 02:09, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

[[User:NeoArkadia|NeoArkadia]] ([[User talk:NeoArkadia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NeoArkadia|contribs]]) 02:09, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

::Just realize you'll be destroying years of work, work that I personally respect, even if it's flawed. No matter what Curse has promised you, Konami is a Japanese comapny. Japanese companies run under a far more alien set of rules than Blizzard. [[User:NeoArkadia|NeoArkadia]] ([[User talk:NeoArkadia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NeoArkadia|contribs]]) 02:45, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

::Just realize you'll be destroying years of work, work that I personally respect, even if it's flawed. No matter what Curse has promised you, Konami is a Japanese comapny. Japanese companies run under a far more alien set of rules than Blizzard. [[User:NeoArkadia|NeoArkadia]] ([[User talk:NeoArkadia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NeoArkadia|contribs]]) 02:45, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::Fox, I cannot believe you could dismiss something like that with a mere "noted". What makes you think Konami won't react this way besides "Curse says they won't". What does Curse know about dealing with a Japanese company that likes to control their products? What makes you think that this is not a valid concern.  [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 06:41, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

:::Fox, I cannot believe you could dismiss something like that with a mere "noted". What makes you think Konami won't react this way besides "Curse says they won't". What does Curse know about dealing with a Japanese company that likes to control their products? What makes you think that this is not a valid concern.  [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 06:41, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

::::Hey if he wants to go tilt at windmills, who am I to stop him? [[User:NeoArkadia|NeoArkadia]] ([[User talk:NeoArkadia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NeoArkadia|contribs]]) 06:52, November 22, 2012 (UTC)  

::::Hey if he wants to go tilt at windmills, who am I to stop him? [[User:NeoArkadia|NeoArkadia]] ([[User talk:NeoArkadia|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/NeoArkadia|contribs]]) 06:52, November 22, 2012 (UTC)  

::::::If contact with Konami is made and they don't like what they see, wouldn't they be within their rights to demand we take down content if they want us to? Would fair use really cover everything? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 10:26, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

::::::If contact with Konami is made and they don't like what they see, wouldn't they be within their rights to demand we take down content if they want us to? Would fair use really cover everything? [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 10:26, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::On the text side: Facts can't be copyrighted, so as long as you are writing original content, there's no issue with that.  Of course, it also can't be libelous or otherwise illegal, but that's not the sort of thing you are writing here anyway.  The images are more complicated.  "Fair use" is a US thing (although some other countries have something similar) and it's actually a defense to copyright complaints rather than a right of some sort.  If someone wanted to complain about a copyright violation, they would send us a DMCA takedown notice.  We would then remove the image(s) from the wiki, and then you would have the opportunity to send a counter-notice to say you disagree with the takedown.  When we got the counter-notice, we'd replace the images - and then it would be a matter between you and the person claiming copyright.  It's at that point where your defense could be "it was fair-use"

:::::::On the text side: Facts can't be copyrighted, so as long as you are writing original content, there's no issue with that.  Of course, it also can't be libelous or otherwise illegal, but that's not the sort of thing you are writing here anyway.  The images are more complicated.  "Fair use" is a US thing (although some other countries have something similar) and it's actually a defense to copyright complaints rather than a right of some sort.  If someone wanted to complain about a copyright violation, they would send us a DMCA takedown notice.  We would then remove the image(s) from the wiki, and then you would have the opportunity to send a counter-notice to say you disagree with the takedown.  When we got the counter-notice, we'd replace the images - and then it would be a matter between you and the person claiming copyright.  It's at that point where your defense could be "it was fair-use"

::Can I just point out, Bushiroad are still very much a tiny company in comparison to the likes of Konami, and therefore leaks are more likely to deal damage to the company's much lower profits. Most of their sales are in Japan only anyway, and while they've released a large number of card games, the only one to see release here is likely Vanguard, as their other games would have huge licensing issues due to being connected to a wealth of different anime, which are all published by different companies overseas. [[User:Tazer Silverscar|Tazer Silverscar]] ([[User talk:Tazer Silverscar|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tazer Silverscar|contribs]]) 14:51, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

::Can I just point out, Bushiroad are still very much a tiny company in comparison to the likes of Konami, and therefore leaks are more likely to deal damage to the company's much lower profits. Most of their sales are in Japan only anyway, and while they've released a large number of card games, the only one to see release here is likely Vanguard, as their other games would have huge licensing issues due to being connected to a wealth of different anime, which are all published by different companies overseas. [[User:Tazer Silverscar|Tazer Silverscar]] ([[User talk:Tazer Silverscar|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tazer Silverscar|contribs]]) 14:51, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

== I'm against it ==

== I'm against it ==

== How long is right? ==

== How long is right? ==

How long should the poll be up and the notice be on the main page?  It's important people get a chance to have their way of course, but it seems there should be an end point too.

How long should the poll be up and the notice be on the main page?  It's important people get a chance to have their way of course, but it seems there should be an end point too.

==Decision==

==Decision==

'''After reading the replies contained within this thread, it is very clear that there is zero appetite among users or administrators to change the status quo, Wikia themselves have also provided compelling reasons to not fork (in addition to them opening preliminary talks with Konami themselves). Subsequently, in light of that fact, I have decided that ''I will not'' be forking this Wikia.'''

'''After reading the replies contained within this thread, it is very clear that there is zero appetite among users or administrators to change the status quo, Wikia themselves have also provided compelling reasons to not fork (in addition to them opening preliminary talks with Konami themselves). Subsequently, in light of that fact, I have decided that ''I will not'' be forking this Wikia.'''

:That's really good to hear, thank you TwoTailedFox.   

:That's really good to hear, thank you TwoTailedFox.   

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJenp__gdc8] --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 17:01, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

:[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJenp__gdc8] --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 17:01, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

::Oops! sorry for the removals, I'm not quite sure how I did that - I think I must have been on a diff and not the actual article when I hit the edit button >_<  

::Oops! sorry for the removals, I'm not quite sure how I did that - I think I must have been on a diff and not the actual article when I hit the edit button >_<  

::::The whole wiki is pointless. I would understand its existence if they expanded certain things or did things differently, but as of now its just a straight copy/paste of our content. I'd like to see it resolved simply because it makes no sense its even there. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 01:51, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::The whole wiki is pointless. I would understand its existence if they expanded certain things or did things differently, but as of now its just a straight copy/paste of our content. I'd like to see it resolved simply because it makes no sense its even there. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 01:51, November 28, 2012 (UTC)