Editing Forum:New Shien concerns

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I know we're still not 100% sure on the exact wording on the effect as the card isn't out yet, but I'm concerned that Konami is giving us a useless card. Why would you ever summon a monster, using 2 level 4s, that has an effect that is almost useless? Increasing attack from below 2k, to 2k, even during the Damage Step, is not very useful, whereas 3k would not be broken at all. The meta decks have so many ways to mess that up, all they'd have to do is pull out a Warning or something. Really, do you guys think the new Shien will even be useful in a Six Sam deck if the numbers are really 2k?[[User:Snowpaw|Snowpaw]] ([[User talk:Snowpaw|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Snowpaw|contribs]]) 23:31, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
:Actually, we do know 100% that the effect increases to 2000. And while the effect isn't all that useful, it does help to generate [[Bushido Counter]]s at the very least. Run at least 1 in a Six Samurai Deck. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 23:53, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Remember, yugioh has no ''USELESS'' cards, just ''BAD'' cards. There is a '''big''' difference.--[[User:Helix-king|Helix-king]] ([[User talk:Helix-king|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Helix-king|contribs]]) 06:13, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

:Plus, [[Legendary Six Samurai - Kageki]] boosts himself up to 3500 ATK. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">Dark </span><span style="color:Blue">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:MidnightBlue;">Talk</span>]])</span>  14:49, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Because cards like Kageki, Enishi, and Kizan go up to 3500, 2500, and 2300 ATTACK.  Plus, it is an XYZ, so it is easy to summon, and gives counters when stuf is on the field.  Just because it isn't broken like [[Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger]] does not mean it is a bad card.  It could be better, but it is still an XYZ samurai and every deck should play at least 2 of him.  I mean come on, having a LVL4 monster already on the field with Invoker makes it easy to get this dude.  Unless you already used up your Kizans that is, but if you did, then you wouldn't be playing Invoker anyway.  

Think of this scenario:

Opening hand includes Kageki, Kizan, Grandmaster, Ascetism, Ascetism, and Elder.  

You put Kageki on the field, special summon Elder, Ascet into Kagemusha, summon Shi-En, special summon Kizan and Grandmaster, Ascet for Enishi, Irou, or Zanji, overlay for Shadow.  Now you got yourself Shi-En at 2500, Shadow at 2500, Grandmaster at 2100, and Kageki who can become 3500.  If your opponent has no way of getting rid of Shadow in their opening hand, they are pretty much screwed on your next turn.

[[User:Dr Kain|Dr Kain]] ([[User talk:Dr Kain|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dr Kain|contribs]]) 16:47, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

:Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger isn't broken, he's only 2600 ATK and inflicts Piercing damage, that's pretty fair. His summoning condition might make him seem broken, but it's not. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">Dark </span><span style="color:Blue">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:MidnightBlue;">Talk</span>]])</span>  16:24, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree, he is very broken.  He does not require you to detach any materials like the XYZ cards are supposed to, so you can just keep using his piercing damage over and over.  He needs to be limited to 1 per deck.  

[[User:Dr Kain|Dr Kain]] ([[User talk:Dr Kain|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dr Kain|contribs]]) 14:50, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

:Charger isn't broken, he's just abused in powerful decks (Hieratics.) And back to the topic, I wouldn't call the Shien Xyz a bad card, just not what you'd expect in a Six Samurai build. Then again, do Six Samurai need much more support? They're consistently doing quite well in tournaments. They're just not topping because the decks that do top aren't really bothered by the F&L list, while Six Sams are. [[User:Djjomon|Djjomon]] ([[User talk:Djjomon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Djjomon|contribs]]) 14:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

:Ease up, Kain. It's only Piercing Damage, and not something stronger like the Ancient Gears' anti-S/T-during-attacks effects. He's still easily dealt with via removal since Thunder Charger can't clear the path for his own attacks. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 15:09, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

The other xyz monsters detach their xyz material because they have [[Ignition Effect]]s or [[Trigger Effect]]s, [[Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger]] has a [[Continuous Effect]] so shoudn't need to detach an xyz material. If he was to limited he would limited because he can be summoned after a rank 5 or 6 xyz monster has used it's effect , then replace it with this card.


[[User:Matthew Lightbody|matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 16:45, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

:The reused after the materials are gone isn't a big deal, it's like using a Synchro Monster for a Synchro Summon. --[[Special:Contributions/99.157.218.133|99.157.218.133]] ([[User talk:99.157.218.133|talk]]) 16:53, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but he does not have to detach himself, so he can use his effect continuously.  Oh your monster is in defense position?  Doesn't matter, I hit you and you still lose 2600 LP.  

Anyway, I'm getting pretty mad right now.  This damn deck was supposed to be out yesterday, but I went to three Targets and two Walmarts and not a single one of them put the thing out yet.  I went back to Target a little bit ago and they still do not have the friggin thing out.  This is getting tiresome.  If Konami is not going to enforce the street date, there shouldn't be one.  I would rather the stores released something two weeks early than a week late.  

[[User:Dr Kain|Dr Kain]] ([[User talk:Dr Kain|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dr Kain|contribs]]) 16:52, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

:Where do you living in? If it's further west, then it would take time for them to delivering... I just got it a day before it original release date at Wal-Mart, two set in fact. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 17:20, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I live in Colorado.  

[[User:Dr Kain|Dr Kain]] ([[User talk:Dr Kain|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dr Kain|contribs]]) 04:54, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

[[Jinzo]] dosen't have a cost either because his effect is continuous, not all xyz monsters need costs anyway.


[[User:Matthew Lightbody|matthew.lightbody@talktalk.net]] ([[User talk:Matthew Lightbody|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matthew Lightbody|contribs]]) 09:40, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
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	:Ease up, Kain. It's only Piercing Damage, and not something stronger like the Ancient Gears' anti-S/T-during-attacks effects. He's still easily dealt with via removal since Thunder Charger can't clear the path for his own attacks. --[[User:Gadjiltron\|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron\|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron\|contribs]]) 15:09, June 24, 2012 (UTC)		:Ease up, Kain. It's only Piercing Damage, and not something stronger like the Ancient Gears' anti-S/T-during-attacks effects. He's still easily dealt with via removal since Thunder Charger can't clear the path for his own attacks. --[[User:Gadjiltron\|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron\|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron\|contribs]]) 15:09, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

−	The other xyz monsters detach their xyz material because they have [[Ignition Effect]]s or [[Trigger Effect]]s, [[Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger]] has a [[Continuous Effect]] so ~~it dosen~~'t need to detach an xyz material. If he was to limited ~~to one~~ he would limited because he can be summoned after a rank 5 or 6 xyz monster has used it's effect , then replace it with this card.	+	The other xyz monsters detach their xyz material because they have [[Ignition Effect]]s or [[Trigger Effect]]s, [[Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger]] has a [[Continuous Effect]] so shoudn't need to detach an xyz material. If he was to limited he would limited because he can be summoned after a rank 5 or 6 xyz monster has used it's effect , then replace it with this card.