Editing Forum:So, it appears it's finally come...

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http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/topic/12447-whats-ignition-effect-priority/page__fromsearch__1


I guess Ignition Priority is gone. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  19:13, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

So [[Solemn Warning]] just got near-useless. [[User:Djjomon|Djjomon]] ([[User talk:Djjomon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Djjomon|contribs]]) 19:16, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

:I wouldn't say that. It still stops Future Fusion from doing anything. And it stops things like Shi En and Laggia. But yeah, it's not as good. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  19:21, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

::I'll keep maining it in [[Karakuri]]s just for [[Gorz the Emissary of Darkness]] or [[Tragoedia]]. [[User:Djjomon|Djjomon]] ([[User talk:Djjomon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Djjomon|contribs]]) 19:23, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Can someone explain this to me?  The charts are confusing... --[[Special:Contributions/68.45.139.158|68.45.139.158]] ([[User talk:68.45.139.158|talk]]) 19:24, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

:In short, you can no longer call priority when you summon a monster that has an Ignition Effect. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  19:27, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

::So no BLS banishing if its bottomlessed? And when does it take effect?--[[Special:Contributions/68.45.139.158|68.45.139.158]] ([[User talk:68.45.139.158|talk]]) 19:34, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

YES!! NOW THAT RANDOM VEILER I PUT IN MY DECKS WILL BE FINALLY USEFUL! HORRAY! SCREW THE RULES, YOU HAVE NO PRIORITY! [[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 19:45, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, no more BLS priority. But! If they respond with [[Raigeki Break]] BLS is then a valid [[Monster Reborn]] target.[[User:Djjomon|Djjomon]] ([[User talk:Djjomon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Djjomon|contribs]])

the 2 warnings are now 1 warning 1 bottomless. cool. [[User:LaserGhost|LG]] [[User talk:LaserGhost|talk]] [[User:LaserGhost/Pesronal Guides|My own Guides]] 20:13, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

And um, I guess this takes effect immediately. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  20:32, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

:Yeah, effective now. [[User:Djjomon|Djjomon]] ([[User talk:Djjomon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Djjomon|contribs]]) 20:45, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

::* You guys are insane if you think this somehow negates the usefulness of Solemn Warning. What it does negate is the usefulness of Maxx "C". Effect Veiler x3 has become the official way to go in (almost) every deck.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 20:58, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

:::Don't get me wrong here, Warning is still great. But, I think it will be either sided, or sided out of most decks. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  22:36, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Torrential just got considerably better and I think Inzektors are going to be used a bit more than Rabbit now since they lose nothing to this.<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 21:59, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Just to make sure everyone is fully aware, the term is no longer referred to as "Priority". Determining who has the right to activate an effect at a given time is now "Fast Effect Timing". --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  22:36, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Should we have a sticky at [[Forum:Yu-Gi-Oh! Ruling Queries]] about this? Like how we had one for [[Forum:March 19th Ignition Effect Rule Change]].
<br><span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 22:59, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

:* Definitely. I can already see the same questions piling up on other forums over and over. This is needed.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 23:00, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

:Agreed here too. People keep asking about Veiler vs. Rescue Rabbit and other things that have been answered a million times, so it couldn't hurt. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  23:04, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

::What are we going to do about the [[Fast Effect Timing]] page? People keep adding to it, but really Fast Effect Timing is just [[Spell Speed 2]] and [[Spell Speed 3]] effects. So, how did you guys want to handle that? I filled the page with some stuff, because wiki contribs were making useless edits. But that page can be removed if need be. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">Dark </span><span style="color:Blue">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:MidnightBlue;">Talk</span>]])</span>  03:14, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

:::We should really just put the chart there and quote a few lines from the article. There's no need for any more than that. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  03:41, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so how this affects "[[Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning]]" and "[[Rescue Rabbit]]" has been discussed, but now I'm wondering (b/c I don't fully understand the intricacies of ''Priority'') how does this affect cards that don't have effects that you ''choose'' to activate, something like the [[Monarch]]s that activate ''when'' [[Tribute Summon]]ed? -[[User:Bhigpx|Bhigpx]] ([[User talk:Bhigpx|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bhigpx|contribs]]) 03:55, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

In response to the question of Monarchs, Monarchs are Trigger Monster effects; They are not effected by this rule change, and play as they did before. [[Special:Contributions/70.63.37.58|70.63.37.58]] ([[User talk:70.63.37.58|talk]]) 04:36, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

:Yeah, only [[Ignition Effect]] monsters are affected by this, so now after you summon BLS or another similar card, you can't immediately use the effect, and your opponent has a chance to get rid it before you can do anything. --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">Dark </span><span style="color:Blue">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:MidnightBlue;">Talk</span>]])</span>  13:10, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I get how it takes REDONKULOUS cards and nerfs them slightly, but now I have to readjust how I build my decks, and I don't think that's cool. It's not like I didn't run solemn for card BLS, and Chaos Sorcerer anyway. I don't run nor do I want to run Effect Veiler anyway.

Shinkirou 17:20, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Um, how would Solemn Warning even become useless?  It is a counter trap and cannot be negated by anything but counter traps, and still destroys any monster your opponent summons (except for Rescue Rabbit).  

[[User:Dr Kain|Dr Kain]] ([[User talk:Dr Kain|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dr Kain|contribs]]) 23:45, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

:It's not that Warning became useless, other cards with no LP cost can get the job done in most cases now. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  02:04, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Huzzah, gameplay unity on both sides of the Pacific. That Wind-Up loop doesn't look so bad now that Bottomless can break it easily. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 02:49, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

:Too bad we still have to deal with broken Exclusives. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  02:50, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Bottomless could break the Wind-Up loop anyway (unless they were running multiple Hunters). I don't see any massive impact on Wind-Ups from the new rules. [[User:Battlemaniac|Battlemaniac]] ([[User talk:Battlemaniac|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Battlemaniac|contribs]]) 16:12, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah could have broken it before, but your opponent would have still been able to dump 1 card from your hand before with Prio with Hunter (Save for Veiler), and the same with Prio with Carrier. Now, under the new rules, you can shut down Hunter with Bottomless before you lose any cards. --[[Special:Contributions/72.178.98.26|72.178.98.26]] ([[User talk:72.178.98.26|talk]]) 23:10, April 27, 2012 (UTC)

Explain how Bottomless hurts the Wind-Up loop.<br>
Last I checked all cards that let you activate traps from your hand are banned.<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 13:50, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:* You're assuming that every loop occurs T1, which isn't the case at all, and even then, T1 loops can be broken by Effect Veiler, after which BTH can be set to end further attempts at the loop.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 14:56, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::So how did prio removal + bottomless change the fact that they could loop? Because Zenmaighty could still summon? Bottomless their hunter and they can't loop anyway.
::And the T1 loop is the only one you should be really worried about anyway.
::[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 15:19, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::* Well, due to the Ignition Priority change, Bottomless now becomes more viable, therefore, it can actually be USED on cards like Hunter and Zenmaity. That's the point. It doesn't matter that it could have been used before, because it was a bad card before and no one ran it. And I highly disagree that the T1 loop is the only one to worry about. If Wind-Ups drop your hand and then follow-up with a series of Xyz Summons, it can be hard to recover from, at virtually any point in the game.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 15:22, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::You could bottomless Hunter before the prio change. You can't prio Xyz. Sure they get to send 1 card from your hand but it completely stops their hand destruction until they can make 2 more rank 3s (leviair and zenmaighty).
::::And most decks can defend against the Hunter loop mid game easily, and really, without Avarice they get 3 1500 attackers + 1 other rank 3 at max (if they don't get rid of them with hunter), a single high attack monster would either force an Acid Golem or make it a waste of time.
::::[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 15:48, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::* Right... cause no one runs destruction cards. Also, what, you couldn't prio Xyz? Since when? Like I said, Bottomless was a bad card before and no one ran it. Now they do. That's the relevant part. You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing now.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 15:51, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::You're making no sense, are you seriously saying you thought you could prio summon?
:::::I don't see what destruction cards have to do with it, nearly every deck in the meta only runs 1 destruction spell (Dark Hole) and at most side Smashing (if that).
:::::And if Bottomless was so bad why is it semi'd? It is and was a good card.
:::::Also, I'm arguing because you're wrong.
:::::[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 15:58, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::* Are you seriously saying you couldn't? For example, [[Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity]] has an Ignition Effect, therefore, you could use priority with it as soon as it is summoned. What's hard to grasp about that? It worked the same as every other monster card that could use an Ignition Effect. And no, it wasn't a good card. The fact that it's Semi'd means jack all. Marshmallon is Semi'd, doesn't make it a good card. Injection Fairy Lily was once Limited. All that matters was what people were running. And people run destruction Traps, and monsters with destruction effects. Wind-Ups can easily make Tiras or Adreus, there's also Zenmaity, to name a few very common cards.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 16:03, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::Prio <b><u>SUMMON</u></b>. Jesus christ I've been saying that from the beginning, prio effect means prio effect prio summon means SUMMON.
::::::::Marshmallon is a bitch to get over, Injection Fairy Lily was part of an OTK if I remember correctly, and even if it wasn't back when it was hit 3000 attack was a lot.
::::::::And oh yes, you can definitely use destruction traps when something's already on the field and you're ready to spam (the only traps that that'd work with in the meta are CED/Raigeki Break which aren't common). And making a rank 5 so you can do the loop but making the rank 5 stops you from being able to do the loop, smart.
::::::::[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 16:11, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::* OBVIOUSLY you can't prio summon, what does that have to do with anything? How does that change whether or not you could use Zenmaity's effect on summon? Previously, you could Xyz Summon Zenmaity, call prio, then they could Bottomless. That way, you'd still get a monster out of it. Now you can't. I don't see what your point was. And yes, making Level 5s tends to easily done in the process of looping to Xyz Summon. If you have a big monster to face that you can't get over any other way, you'd obviously treat that as your priority and not go for the hand loop like a moron. I don't even understand what your point is anymore. You just seem to be bringing up more and more bizarre situations that aren't relevant at all. Also, Marshmallon is an awful card. It isn't hard to get over at all if you can make Rank 4s, which most decks should be able to.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 16:14, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::I said: "You could bottomless Hunter before the prio change. You can't prio Xyz. "
::::::::You replied: "Also, what, you couldn't prio Xyz? Since when?"
::::::::I replied: "You're making no sense, are you seriously saying you thought you could prio summon?"
::::::::You replied: "Are you seriously saying you couldn't?"
::::::::I replied: "You can't Prio SUMMON. Jesus christ I've been saying that from the beginning, prio effect means prio effect, prio summon means SUMMON, something you can't do."
::::::::You replied: "WTF is a prio SUMMON?"
::::::::Learn to read, it's an important part of life.
::::::::[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 16:18, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::* You were making up terms. Prio summon could very easily be taken to mean "prio '''on''' summon" since there is no other definition for the term. I still don't understand what you mean by "prio Xyz" or how it relates to the Bottomless vs. Zenmaity situation. You obviously suck at getting your point across. That tends to happen when you don't really have one and are just rambling for the sake of it.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 16:20, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

My first prio statement here said "prio Xyz", last I checked you don't say "Prio Xyz effect".
And for Hunter vs Bottomless: <br>
Hunter can't remove himself with his effect, the main way to remove him from the field is by Xyz, you can't prio Xyz to remove him from the field before the bottomless hits, as I said in that post you may use his effect to hit 1 card (if you have zenmighty out) but that's the only card you'll be able to hit for a while.<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 16:24, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:* Fair point, but you worded it awfully. Obviously you can't prio Xyz Summon. Who would even use that as an argument point? That still doesn't change the fact that if you Bottomless'd Zenmaity before, you couldn't avoid its effect, when now you can. That's a significant enough change that BTH has brought vs. Wind-Ups.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 16:27, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, you stopped part of the combo that's easy to start again (any 2 level 3s) instead of removing it by banishing their only hunter.<br>
My "you can't prio Xyz" was to point out nothing significant changed with bottomless vs Wind-Ups.<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 16:30, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:* Right, because after they summon 2 Level 3s to bring out Zenmaity, it's so easy to get 2 more out of nowhere. If you allow Zenmaity to use its effect, then they can grab a Rat into Hunter, and you can BTH that, sure, and then risk a Shark play into more Xyzes. Bottomlessing a Zenmaity isn't a bad play if that's the only thing they can do without its effect. And FYI, even Bottomlessing Hunter doesn't mean it's gone for good. As you mentioned before, all they need is Leviair, and since everyone can pull Level 3s out of thin air, according to you, it shouldn't be too hard to bring it out. Stopping a play at its core can sometimes be smarter than just removing a piece of a play.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 16:33, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

Bottomlessing Zenmaighty stops it for a single turn, the next turn they'll go for it again. At least with hunter it forces them to go for not only a Leviair but another Zenmaighty if they want to start the loop again (if you managed to get over their little 1500 beater).<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 16:42, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::* Ugh, whatever. Just repeating the same sh!t again and again.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 16:43, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::I am sorry, IP-Addressed User; Joey is right - Zenmaines can stop "Bottomless Trap Hole" because it's Continuous, not goddamn Ignition-effect. It End Phase effect is Triggering. Now shut the hell up and move on, alright? --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100/Smily_Faces|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">i</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 16:49, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

What? We didn't mention Zenmaines once.<br>
And so sorry Yami for going for the approach that costs them more cards /sarcasm.<br>
[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 16:51, April 28, 2012 (UTC)
:<nowiki>*</nowiki>facefault* Oh dear... It appeared that I mistook "[[Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity|Wind-Up Zenmaighty]]" for "[[Wind-Up Zenmaines]]". But yes, both of them still prevent the destruction. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100/Smily_Faces|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">i</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 18:01, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

::Zenmaighty says destroyed and sent to the grave, so I'm guessing they can't use their effect on Bottomless since it destroys and banishes.<br>
::[[Special:Contributions/60.228.86.44|60.228.86.44]] ([[User talk:60.228.86.44|talk]]) 18:14, April 28, 2012 (UTC)

:Duh... --<span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:CornflowerBlue;">Dark </span><span style="color:Blue">Ace SP</span>]] ([[User_talk:Dark Ace SP|<span style="color:MidnightBlue;">Talk</span>]])</span>  19:07, April 28, 2012 (UTC)