Editing Talk:Lswarm

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==Steelswarm a sub-archetype==
So does this mean that Steelswarm is a sub-archetype to Verz?? Like Xx-Saber-Xsaber, R-Genex-Genex??? So Verz's supports support Steelswarm but Steelswarm support doesnot support VERZ entirely? can someone confirm this? [[User:33royward|33royward]] ([[User talk:33royward|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/33royward|contribs]]) 05:08, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

:A quick check of the kanji reveals that's correct. "Verz" support cards support "Steelswarms", but not the other way around. The fact that the TCG changed "Inverz" to "Steelswarm" complicates things as far as how to word support cards. Hopefully the TCG name for "Verz" will help clear that up when we get to that point. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 05:20, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

::So, should we list every [[Steelswarm]] as a [[Verz]] member? [[User:LastMinute|LastMinute]] ([[User talk:LastMinute|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LastMinute|contribs]]) 06:53, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

:::Yea, i think we should [[User:33royward|33royward]] ([[User talk:33royward|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/33royward|contribs]]) 06:56, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

::::Good work, guys. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 14:19, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

The idea where [[Steelswarm Roach]] survives the fight against [[Vylon]] and infects the other duel terminal making them "Verz" monsters is sort of weird. how would the infected ones become the main archetype from the sub-archetype. [[User:LastMinute|LastMinute]] ([[User talk:LastMinute|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LastMinute|contribs]]) 06:07, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

:Maybe [[Verz]] became the main archetype after the destruction of [[Steelswarm]] monsters (something like the [[Six Samurai]]s and [[Legendary Six Samurai]]s) because in the story of "Duel Terminal" the Steelswarms were the first who unleashed the "Infestation" to the world, but when the "Vylon" monsters and the other arquetypes defeated them, the only survivor was [[Steelswarm Roach]]. Behind him are blue flames, similar to the color of the "Verz" symbol, and considering that he appeared after when the rest of the "Steelswarms" were exterminated, he spread the "Verz" virus to the other archetypes, and since in theory, the "Steelswarms" no longer exist in the history, the "Verz" became the main archetype (I know, it's complicated, but as I said, they are similar to the "Samurais", in some way). 
 [[User:Dragunity_Slifer|Dragunity_Slifer]] ([[User talk:Dragunity_Slifer|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dragunity_Slifer|contribs]]) 16:58, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

==Major Page Editing==
Cmon, this page need a major editing. Its really revealed that Steelswarm is the Sub-archetype to Verz and yet some statement does not make sense like the statement:

"Evidently, this archetype share a close name with "Steelswarm" (Inverz, インヴェルズ), an archetype from the previous Duel Terminal story arc."

cmon, it share a close name because Steelswarm IS a Verz Sub-archetype. also another statement is:

"The strategy of the "Verz" seems to be similar to the "Steelswarm"...."

Duh? They have similar strategy because they are of the same archetype. Somebody, we need a major Page Editing. [[User:33royward|33royward]] ([[User talk:33royward|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/33royward|contribs]]) 00:27, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

:They are goddamn NOT same archetype. It's because Steel'''swarm''' is ''IN''verz, while Verz alone is NOT Swarm. Verz is indeed "Steel" but known as Virus (not you, Seto, so shut up about money) that can corrupt the monsters and turned them against the rivals. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation/Memoir_(disambiguation)|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 00:37, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Its because Steelswarm IS Verz but Verz is not Steelswarm. Steelswarm is a sub-archetype. [[User:33royward|33royward]] ([[User talk:33royward|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/33royward|contribs]]) 00:49, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

:That therefore straight your previous respond, you said "similar to the Steelswarm"... But they do not have similar strategy, Steelswarm lacked Xyz while Verz does. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation/Memoir_(disambiguation)|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 00:51, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

: Hey, i just want to say that I said that first statement, "Evidently, this archetype share a close name with "Steelswarm" (Inverz, インヴェルズ), an archetype from the previous Duel Terminal story arc.", you said was my work. Yeah, i know it sounds weird, but i wasn't so sure at first, until now that is. So, you can change that if you want. just letting you guys know. [[User:LastMinute|LastMinute]] ([[User talk:LastMinute|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LastMinute|contribs]]) 01:01, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

== Steel? ==

Any source for this? We should not speculate on what the English name will be. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 17:33, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

*Well i think that it should be called Steel because you got "Inverz" which is "Insect Verz". I'm pretty sure they switched the two to make "Verz Insect" hence getting the name "Steelswarm" ("Verz" = "Steel" and "Insect" = "Swarm"). [[User:Youngsevon|Youngsevon]] ([[User talk:Youngsevon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Youngsevon|contribs]]) 22:37, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

::Then you're speculating. For one, that would create confusion with other "Steel" cards. "[[Steel Ogre Grotto 1]]", and "[[Steel Fan Fighter]]", for example. Those are clearly not "Verz" cards. You cannot just assume that's what they'll change it to. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 17:39, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

== Verz = Evilswarm ==

Scanned an import DT13 Verz Kaitos, and the english machine displayed his name as Evilswarm Ketos.

Photos later tonight. I don't have any more Verz imports to scan in for other names, though. <small>''—This unsigned comment was made by [[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 23:41, April 14, 2012''</small>

http://i.imgur.com/kd8sb.jpg

changing page names now

[[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 00:39, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I'm YRPOtaku169! 03:24, April 15, 2012 (UTC)<br/>
Are we sure this is really the translated name?<br/>
Because this seems rather...lazy...

Yeah, is that what DT card images look like? >_> --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 03:25, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:* If this is true, I guess we're going to have a lot of erratas for cards that support both swarms. Just seems so sloppy to me...--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 03:50, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::Well, actually, I don't think erratas would be needed if this was real. Inverz support cards don't support Verz cards, so the future cards could just say "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm", and the older cards could remain the same. But that said, this image looks fake to me. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 03:55, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::You think maybe cards like that will just say "Swarm Monsters"? Just a random thought since we don't even know if this is real yet. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  04:01, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::::That would conflict with "[[Swarm of Scarabs]]" and "[[Swarm of Locusts]]". [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 04:11, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::Wouldn't they do it like with Frog the Jam? Bah, it was just a thought either way. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  04:54, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:Whatever the case, one image in crappy quality with no backup source of any kind is by no means given fact. Until Shriek or another credible source says otherwise, it's staying [[Verz]]. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 04:20, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::Agreed. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 04:21, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::K if you guys are going to be faggots about it, I'll record a video of it tomorrow. There doesn't need to be a backup source, Konami makes the damn machines. If you're too ignorant to know what an Action Duel X screenshot looks like you don't really have any business making judgments on this. 

:::Changing back to Evilswarm because it's as real as the March 2012 banlist.

:::We're not going to wait 5 months for Duel Terminal 7a to come out in English because we don't need to. It's right here, the card reads just fine in current machines.
[[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 04:28, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::Are you done with your ignorant rant? Back to Verz until you show us this "proof". --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  04:56, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::::Love how actual clear photography of an English DT machine doesn't count as proof to you lot. I'll be sure to dedicate a few middle fingers to all of you idiots in denial tomorrow night after the YCS. [[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 04:58, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::I really don't care personally. You're acting like that picture can't ''possibly'' be fake. I'm not saying it is fake, but we need to know for sure. You had absolutely no business coming in here and throwing a hissy fit over this issue. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  05:01, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e6fHat2mDA Here's a video of the Action Duel X Duel Terminal thing.] They don't even show the card name like the screenshot shows until 6:20. I'm iffy about it, personally, but you can decide how valid this is.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 11:45, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::Well now that I've seen the video, this does seem far more credible. Perhaps if Piconoe hadn't repeatedly referred to us by derogatory names we would have taken him more seriously. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 14:22, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Uh...are you sure you posted the right video? From the looks of it, that's about 3 months old, and I didn't see any Verzes/"Evilswarms" in sight. At 6:20 all I saw was Fabled Leviathan standing there looking spooky.[[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 15:43, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::The point was that this picture uses the same font and whatnot that the DT machine uses in the video. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 15:53, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::If that's all that proves, then it's still not enough. Photoshops are ridiculously easy to do if you know what the source material looks like; how do you think we get those dozens of fake ban lists come every February/August? This could easily just be a photoshop using the same materials. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 16:22, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::My thoughts exactly. Photoshop can do wonders. Even if the screenshot is real, there's no other source to back it up, so we can't go off of it until we get another source confirming it. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:26, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::Lol denial. ~10 photos coming in about 20 minutes, the camera I brought apparently can't record video. Be prepared to remove your head from your hindquarters. [[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 22:53, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::Denial? How is needing more than 1 picture for proof denial? We don't just put stuff up here because of 1 picture. Go ahead and post pictures, because that's what we wanted. God, you are arrogant. --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  22:57, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/FYSmM.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/8E8lV.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/jNgqA.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/VszdC.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/Zml3g.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/Eep1i.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/8Q11r.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/2cHst.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/tENVM.jpg
:::::::::::http://i.imgur.com/qPX26.jpg

:::::::::::[[Special:Contributions/71.91.167.148|71.91.167.148]] ([[User talk:71.91.167.148|talk]]) 01:31, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Kinda weird, so... is [[Steelswarm]] still consider a sub-archetype? like are we still basing on their japanese names? [[Special:Contributions/24.83.215.20|24.83.215.20]] ([[User talk:24.83.215.20|talk]]) 01:38, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

:Yeah, the English names are irrelevant. That being said, they English cards will probably print "Verz" support cards as "Steelswarm" or "Evilswarm", since just "Swarm" conflicts with other cards. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 01:42, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

:So it is true. Cool. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 01:46, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

::I'm inclined to believe him, yes. However, I would advise against running around and moving every "Verz" article just yet. If this is true, It's likely to be reported somewhere else soon enough (though I certainly won't revert any moves that do get done. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 01:53, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

:So it is true. Cool. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 01:46, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

:Here's my question...how does an English machine have information on a set that isn't even printed yet? [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 01:50, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
::Beta version, like many Halos shits. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font></span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">r</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:black;"><font size"2">e</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">d</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">C</font></span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">a</font></span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="2">t</font></span>]]</span> 01:51, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

:::DTs can read two sets ahead of where they are in the TCG (but CANNOT read Duel Terminal Promos such as Genex Neutron, Steelswarm Roach or Gem-Knight Emerald) Because of this, you can scan in anything from DT12 or DT13, despite our current machines being on DT06a TCG (DT11). [[Special:Contributions/71.91.167.148|71.91.167.148]] ([[User talk:71.91.167.148|talk]]) 02:00, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

::::Also, people won't be reporting on this because this is original research rather than any kind of publication. Relying on news sites for something like this is unrealistic. Nobody cares about Duel Terminal gameplay, as far as regular douchebags are concerned DTs are for putting in money and getting cards from. We only know this because we thought to do the research on our own. This isn't ever going to be on someplace like shriek because that's not the kind of reporting they do. [[Special:Contributions/71.91.167.148|71.91.167.148]] ([[User talk:71.91.167.148|talk]]) 02:00, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

:Er...what are you talking about? They have stuff in Duel Terminals all the time. [[User:Buh6173|The Pope]] 04:42, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

::You're welcome to try to find a single Duel Terminal news article that isn't just a Duel Terminal set listing made around the time Japan or the US get their respective releases. 

::You won't though. [[Special:Contributions/71.91.167.148|71.91.167.148]] ([[User talk:71.91.167.148|talk]]) 05:11, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

I thought the majority decision was to leave it Verz for now. What happened? --> ''<b>[[User:Skullvarnish|Summoned Skull 2:]] [[User talk:Skullvarnish|Electric Boogaloo]]</b>''  17:26, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

:How about that, huh? Guess not. [[Special:Contributions/71.91.167.148|71.91.167.148]] ([[User talk:71.91.167.148|talk]]) 00:26, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

:: I would have waited just a bit more to have the second half of the names confirmed before moving them; so we don't need to move them twice.
:: Guess we went with it as soon as Deltaneos moved the rest of the pages and images. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:00, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
:::It's common practice here to use confirmed archetype names along with unconfirmed individual names. Otherwise, we should go and rename Evigishki Zealgigas to Eviritua, for example. [[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 02:51, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

I love how you dickheads have the proof in front of your eyes and you are just too much of a hard-headed dick to change it. I mean, its there, why don't change it, morons? It's evilswarm, the devastation cards will support swarm monsters, or "Lswarm". You got the proof, take the dick out of your heads and leave it there. --[[User:Pato M|Yes, im Pato]] ([[User talk:Pato M|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pato M|contribs]]) 03:21, April 20, 2012 (UTC)
:Wow, who the hell are you?[[User:Piconoe|Piconoe]] ([[User talk:Piconoe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Piconoe|contribs]]) 03:26, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

:...It's already been changed. What are you even talking about, Pato? And do not insult other users like that. There is no reason for it. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 03:45, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

The name stood, there is nothing else to discuss here. And regarding my vocabulary, today is self-claimed Dick-Day. So, instead of saying fucking in the middle of everything, I'll add Dick :) . Have a good discussion. --[[User:Pato M|Yes, im Pato]] ([[User talk:Pato M|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pato M|contribs]]) 03:56, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

== lswarm ==

They... they went with [[:File:EvilswarmBahamut-DT07-EN-DUPR-DT.png|lswarm]]... --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 11:54, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:... Wow, that's so stupid, I'm shocked. Good luck dealing with that headache.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 11:57, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::It truly baffles me why they would do this. All they needed to say was "2 Evilswarm or Steelswarm monsters". --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 12:01, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::So they called them "Evilswarms" but the lores read "lswarm" for support? This is complicated. We could keep this page and make a new "lswarm" page, but that wouldn't be accurate to the Japanese card lores (all "Inverz" monsters are implicitly "Verz"). So I'm not sure how to handle this. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 12:15, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::Let's saying that "Evilswarm Bahamut" looking at "-lswarm" name, just similar to "Elemental HERO Absolute Zero", which only look at "HERO" as 1 of his Fusion Materials. I know it don't have dash, but that's just a suggestive of what I am aware. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 12:20, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::Just changing this to "Lswarm" seems fine. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 12:22, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::Well, it's printed as lowercase "L", not capital "L", Goldy. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 12:28, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::: I agree with just moving this to "lswarm" and have this page as a redirect. (card names use "Evilswarm" because "lswarm" is not easily pronounceable, the terrible choice of "lswarm" is only used in card effects for archetype definition purposes and we go by archetype definitions not card names here)
:::::: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 12:43, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::As with "[[Roid]]" and "[[Sphinx]]", we still go with capitals, Fred. Get your bot ready, Falzar. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 12:52, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::: I suppose if one tries to pronounce "lswarm", it'll sound a bit like "ilswarm" which in turn sounds like "Evilswarm", which is probably why Konami chose "Evilswarm" as the card names. <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 12:57, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::They could have just gone with naming the monsters "'''E'''lswarm", which doesn't look quite as bad. But I suppose this isn't the place to discuss the poor decisions of Konami. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 13:02, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::@Goldy, I have not forget them, I was just make a point - after all, old HERO stuffs usually had "Hero" as Capitals regardless their positions. So I am settling with that choice - "Lswarm" is it. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 13:59, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::::Those should both use lowercase, not the other way around. As I've said [[Talk:hunder#Capital H|elsewhere]], the "discussions" that led to those pages being capital were circular arguments (each pointed to the other for support), and ''all'' of the card lores use the lowercase forms. <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 18:45, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Is lswarm not the collective name of both "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm"? Therefore, this sentence is kind of inaccurate: ""lswarm", known as "Verz" (ヴェルズ Veruzu) in the OCG is a Duel Terminal archetype of DARK-Attribute monsters" - the archetypes are "Evilswarm" and "Steelswarm", but they are collectively referred to as "lswarm." Or am I missing something?--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 18:49, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:It's a unique (read, stupid) situation resulting from the TCG trying to fix the botched naming of the "[[Steelswarm]]" archetype. It would be pointless to make both a "lswarm" and a "Evilswarm" page. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 19:13, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::I understand that, but calling "lswarm" the same as "Verz" is wrong, because "Verz" is the name of the archetype in the OCG, while "Evilswarm" is the counterpart in the TCG. I agree with what Thanonyx said on your talkpage, we should make "lswarm" the archetype, with "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm" being sub-archetypes. (Thank you so much for this, Konami, and inb4 Kevin Tewart says "Japan did it.")--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 19:16, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::But there's no OCG basis for an "Evilswarm" page. The "Evi" is just pointlessly added. --[[User:Golden Key|Golden Key]] ([[User talk:Golden Key|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golden Key|contribs]]) 19:23, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::Or to put it another way, the TCG "lswarm" cards are exactly equivalent to the OCG "Verz" cards; the "Evilswarm" cards are just those cards which are "Verz" but not "Inverz". <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 20:01, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::So "Evilswarm" doesn't even get a mention?--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 20:03, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::I don't think anyone's saying that; we're just arguing against Evilswarm getting its own article. <span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 20:14, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::::I'm not campaigning for it to have its own article. I'm more concerned about the confusion that will spread if we refer to all "Evilswarm" cards as simply "lswarm" just because they're both "Verz" in the OCG.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 20:16, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::: @''calling "lswarm" the same as "Verz" is wrong, because "Verz" is the name of the archetype in the OCG''
::: From only looking at the effects of the cards, "イン'''ヴェルズ'''" (In'''verz''') and "ヴェルズ" (Verz) = "Stee'''lswarm'''" and "lswarm".
::: When the OCG refers to a "Verz" card, it refers to both "Verz" and "Inverz". (as such, when the TCG refers to a "lswarm" card, it refers to both "lswarm" and "Steelswarm".)
::: Evi is extra text, to make the card name easier to pronounce, none of the effects use it right?
::: <span style="font-family: Monotype Corsiva">-[[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]]- ([[User talk:Falzar FZ#top|talk page]]|[[User:Falzar FZ/Tips and Guides|useful stuff]])</span> 01:17, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

This also prevents [[Swarm of Scarabs]] and [[Swarm of Locusts]] from being lswarm support. [[User:Djjomon|Djjomon]] ([[User talk:Djjomon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Djjomon|contribs]]) 20:27, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::I can not find any official TCG source for the renaming from "Evilswarm" to "Lswarm". The archetype is still called "Evilswarm", despite they are related with "Steelswarm". You did not change Steelswarm to Lswarm, so why you did that with Evilswarm ? For example, Verz Zahhak in OCG is called "Evilswarm Zahak" (Duel Terminal 7) in TCG, not "Lswarm Zahak". So the archetype is Evilswarm. It's the same stupid action like you did with "Number 92: False Skeletal God Dragon, Heart-earth Dragon" that you have changed to "Number 92: Fake-Body God Dragon, Heart-eartH Dragon". There is no source for his TCG name, it's just because of a  translation you did. Konami makes the card names for TCG, not you. Please stay by the truth.--[[User:TheGallisMan|TheGallisMan]] ([[User talk:TheGallisMan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheGallisMan|contribs]]) 20:54, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
::::Actually, Verz Bahamut requires "lswarm" monsters. It's not much to go on but they're essentially saying that the archetype is in the "lswarm". It's unfortunate how it works out in English.[[User:BobaFett2 | BF2]] [[User talk:BobaFett2 | Talk]] [[Forum:Deck Guide | Deck Guides]] 21:05, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::Ok, Gallis, let me try to explain this. In the ''OCG'', "Evilswarm" was known as "Verz" and "Steelswarm" was known as "Inverz". The "Inverz" came first. Due to the way archetype support works, all "Inverz" monsters implicitly became "Verz" monsters when the "Verz" support cards were released. Before "Verz" monsters came out in the ''OCG'', the ''TCG'' decided to call the "Inverz" monsters "Steelswarm". Remember, all "Inverz" monsters are "Verz" monsters, meaning all "Steelswarm" monsters are also "Evilswarm" monsters. But they do not have "Evilswarm" in their English names. Both "Steelswarm" and "Evilswarm" have "Lswarm" in their English names. That's where the name is coming from. "Evilswarm" still exists and should redirect here - because its the same thing as "Lswarm", just written a different way due to the way the ''TCG'' named it. 
:::::Do you not understand how translation works? The Japanese name of Number 92 can be interpreted in different ways. There is ''no'' official translated name. There's an official, written Japanese name, that's it. Do you know where I get the idea to use "Fake Body"? From the same dude that originally gave us "False Skeletal", that's where. [[User:Cheesedude|Cheesedude]] ([[User talk:Cheesedude|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheesedude|contribs]]) 21:50, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

:::::Following Cheesy's comment, do you remember "HERO" word? Stratos can searching ''any'' HERO monsters, reckless their looks; Evil, Masked, and ever Vision, and add it to the hand. That is identity way to this situation, "Lswarm" = "HERO", just without start word; such as "Stee-" or "Evi-", as they are treated in the same way as "Elemental", "Evil", etc. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 22:12, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

::::::Hmmm. I suggest we should call this "lswarm" and make a category "Evilswarm" and there we put the explainations of how Konami messed up with this. ----<span style="font-family: 'Lucida Caligraphy';">[[User:33royward|SharkTenjo]]</span> 01:36, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

== Actual nature of the Evilswarm Virus ==

What are the sources we have to know the backstory of the Verz (Sorry, hate translation Evilswarm) cards?

I mean, judging from [[Evilswarm Heliotrope|Verz Heliolope]], more than just being a virus born from the bodies of fallen Inverz monsters ([[Infestation Infection]]), it can be said that it is an infection that carries the soul and will of the Inverz, thus any monster infected by it, became a slave to their will.

For example in [[Trial and Tribulation]] we see [[Gishki Noellia]] mourning who seems to be [[Gishki Natalia]] before becoming a spirit, all these while the Verz Infection lurks around her, with none other than [[Steelswarm Hercules|Inverz Grez]] in the background, later the infection grows ([[Creeping Darkness]]) and she becomes half Evigishki half Verz ([[Evigishki Psychelone]]).

Another example is [[Constellar Meteor]] where we see [[Verz Castor|Constellar Castor]] charging against Evigishki Psychelone while the same Verz Infection (from Trial and Tribulation) seems to approach him.

So, more than just being a self-defense mecanism in case of extermination, the Verz Virus is actually the Souls of the Inverz searching for new bodies in order to fulfill their objectives. 

I'm asking for opinions in this matter, in order to see how we can expand a little bit more the '''Story''' section in the page.
[[User:Kentaru Z|Kentaru Z]] ([[User talk:Kentaru Z|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kentaru Z|contribs]]) 23:44, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

==Pollux/Castor==
I'm sick and tired of having to edit the table each time Pollux is designated as Castor's counterpart. The table is supposed to show the lswarm monsters and their original counterparts. This isn't the case for Castor and Pollux because they're two different entities; in the Duel Terminal storyline, Castor is the brother of Pollux, who got corrupted by the lswarm virus.
:Edit: apologies if this doesn't improve the article for a bit. [[User:ChaosGallade|ChaosGallade]] ([[User talk:ChaosGallade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ChaosGallade|contribs]]) 16:44, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
:I am also got tired of that <censor> - Pollux and Castor are indeed twin brothers (since they have same building, except for their helm) and are separate monsters. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 16:51, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
@@ Line 237: / Line 237: @@
 :Edit: apologies if this doesn't improve the article for a bit. [[User:ChaosGallade|ChaosGallade]] ([[User talk:ChaosGallade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ChaosGallade|contribs]]) 16:44, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 :I am also got tired of that <censor> - Pollux and Castor are indeed twin brothers (since they have same building, except for their helm) and are separate monsters. --<span style="font:10pt 'Bookman Old Style'">[[User:FredCat100/Smily Faces|<span style="color:#000">i</span>]][[User:FredCat100|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">F</span>]][[User talk:FredCat100#top|<span style="color:#000">r</span>]][[User:FredCat100/friends|<span style="color:#000">e</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|<span style="color:#000">d</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation|<span style="font-size:13pt;color:#000">C</span>]][[User:FredCat100/Research|<span style="color:#000">a</span>]][[Special:Contributions/FredCat100|<span style="color:#000">t</span>]]</span> 16:51, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
-== Evilswarm Page Overhaul ==
-So I was reading through this article recently and this article is very, very outdated. It doesn't seem like the bulk of this article has been edited in about three years. There are a lot of mentions of decks that simply don't exist anymore: Agents, Chaos Dragons, Naturia etc that should be replaced with more modern mentions (good examples are: Blue-Eyes, Kozmo, Metalfoes, D/D/D, Lightsworn etc). In addition, many of the cards and variants mentioned should just be completely scrapped: the Chaos Zone version of the deck doesn't work now that we only have 1 Dimensional Fissure and 1 Macro Cosmos, Golem and Coppelia are extremely terrible cards in the deck, and many of the recommended cards (Hraesvelg, Azzathoth, Salamandra, BLS, Kagetokage, Vylon Disigma, the Evolzars, D.D.R.) are just going to actively make the deck worse. This isn't a good thing for someone who wants to build the deck and finds all of this only to realize his deck is rather bad.
-The weaknesses section also needs a serious clean-up. Some points:
--The deck has no serious weakness to Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror, in part because Castor's and Ophion's main effects cannot be negated by it and Infestation Pandemic will keep it from working.
--The effect negation point should be replaced with relevant cards (although Forbidden Chalice is fine) like Breakthrough Skill, Phantom Knights' Fog Blade, and Fiendish Chain.
--Ghost Ogre and Snow Rabbit needs to be mentioned. Chaining it to Ophion leaves the deck with very few options to get around it.
--Remove the mention of Luminious Soldier and Genex Ally Duradark. The former was never, ever, used and the latter hasn't been used for years.
--The Constellar point should be a general mention of Xyz decks that don't rely on higher level monsters, since there are many Rank 4 options that will out Ophion easily.
--Mystical Fairy Elfuria should be replaced by Flying "C", since it doesn't require protection and a well-placed Flying "C" will shut down this deck extremely easily.
--A mention needs to be made for this deck's weakness to monster removal: Kaijus utterly bone this deck and are an extremely common side deck staple, and the deck does not have any real method to regain hand advantage
-There is probably more that can be said but I'm not familiar with wiki editing myself so I figured I'd at least bring it to the community's attention. This deck will always have some popularity thanks to Ophion's memeworthy effect so I think its pertinent that it be kept up to date.[[User:Admiral Emi|Admiral Emi]] ([[User talk:Admiral Emi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Admiral Emi|contribs]]) 14:12, September 25, 2016 (UTC)