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== Blackfeather Scar-Red Nova Dragon should go where? ==i mean come on the page for shining darkness calls bfd crows new trump card.....its common sense that thats the fifth dragon i dont give a crap about speculation...ill tell ya what tho....when It's not an Accel Synchro, but should it IS revealed that bfd IS (and the fifth dragon...imma go to each n every single one of u that claime speculation and say HAH I Frecking (abridged Marikimage) TOLD U SO...on in that is all--section anyway or be left by itself in another section under Accel Synchro? [[User:Hairball420ShinobiPhoenix|Hairball420ShinobiPhoenix]] 1410:3811, November 13June 2, 2009 2010 (UTC)

::How is well its a theory not discussing the article, since it is about one of the dragons? and i stand by what i said...when blackfeather dragon is shown synchro monster that hasto be the fith summoned with red dragon, ill tell u archfiend and two tuner monsters instead of synchro/tuner and everyone else i told u a synchro monster so...and if im wrong ill gladly admit no, but itcould be put in)...and i take offense to u calling my theory irrelevant when it was since its about the fith dragon!--[[User:Hairball420|Hairball420]] 15turbowarrior753 2:14, November 1326 july 12, 2009 (UTC)2010

*We now i have a picture question. Until Blackfeather Dragon(Lvl. 8) was released the two signer dragons with a level of [[Blackfeather 8 (Stardust Dragon, Red-Dragon]] Archfiend) had both, Assault version, and Majestic version of themselves (Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode, Majestic Star Dragon, Red-Dragon Archfiend/Assault Mode, Majestic Red Dragon) So is it possible that if BFD is <u>NOT</u> the Fifth Dragon.in fact an actual proven fifth signer dragon, would it too be given an assault mode, and majestic version? [[User:AltyrellSoundeffex|AltyrellSoundeffex]] 1800:5332, January 14March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Okay i see Assault Modes were a one-shot idea from the OVA. A Majestic form, however, would theoretically be possible. That said, that the BFD is more of a winged beast than a dragon but maybe in the yugioh series there maybe an episode where Crow gets the card and its a dragon typepure speculation. [[User:Burnpsy|Burnpsy]] 00:41, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

WTH do you mean Crow:That's not a true Signer?! Oh yeah everyone has a Dragoncorrect, as they's Birthmark nowre only appear on two main characters; Yusei and Jack, who rival in defense and power, cuz it's such a big thing! I meanrespective. Aki, honestly Rua would literally cut off his own arm Luna and switch it with Crow's cuz he wants to be the Fifth Signer! lolnot have any rival on their own yet. --[[User:FredCat100|FredCat100]] 00:43, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

*Seriously, F*S, Blackfeather Dragon is NOT the Fifth Dragon, for one important and major reason: #'''''<u><span style="color:red">IT LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE FIFTH BLOODY DRAGON</span></u>'''''*So, please stop saying it is.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 03:52, February 1, 2010 (UTC) ::A Dragon in the possession of a Signer does not make it the 5th Dragon. Rex had "[[Sun Dragon Inti]]" and Roman had an undisclosed "main card". Kiryu possesses a Dragon, but he is not a Signer, so it is not the 5th Dragon. The Fifth Dragon must the one here: [[Fifth Dragon]]. It was stated by Yanagi (in episode 8) that the appearance of the Dragons has not changed, only their form (ex: statue -> action figure -> card). [[User:Messengerofthedark|DemonGodAsura]] 05:07, February 1, 2010 (UTC) I think anyone realized that question has been answered already. Even Jack himself said BFD was a Signer Dragon. Plus, if you really want to get technical with all the whole BFD not looking like Golden Gaia Dragon (only god knows why you gave it a name when its not even an anime based card), lets go back to the very beggining of the series when good 'ol Yanagi was first explaining the properties of the Crimson Dragon and the five dragons back in episode 8. This is an exact quote of what he said: "The five signer dragons have changed their looks over the ages, but still live on." With that said, lets take a look at the history of Golden Gaia Dragon... oh wait, I forgot that there is no history other than it showed up in a vision and that there is a fan made assumption that Power Tool Dragon is a mechanical version of it, and I will emphesize on "fanthree-made" assumption since nowhere does it say that Power Tool Dragon is a mecha-version of GGD. So instead of using a fan-made assumption that PTD or GGD is and should be the fifthpart names, we should go for what IS said (by a major character not to mention) and make BFD the fifth instead one of complaining about its similarity to this GGD thing. If the facts change, then like Deltaneos said, take it down and put up the new info so and if we are all wrong (which has happened plenty of times before), then at least we're the previous facts were based on the anime and not fan-made assumptions like GGD.those parts always includes dragon? Star-dust-[[User:Sky Scourge God|Sky Scourge God]] 02:40, February 4dragon, 2010 (UTC):* It's simply a fanRed-name for flavor and ease of usage. Nothing to get bent up about, it's been used by a lot of people, but no one is pretending it's something official or putting it in any canonical document. "Fifth Dragon" is just so soulless and just as non-canonical as the Dragon itself has no official name anyway, so any name used is fine, and so far people are catching on more to Golden Gaia. Either way, back on THIS topic, what you're saying as already been said by a lot of people. The problem is naysayer people who don't want to come on board for any amount of bias reasons. Like I said, waiting to for the facts to go along with their fantasies and rather keep any new facts that get in the way off the page for as long as possible. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 02:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::* ...isn't that kind of what I'm saying? New facts have been presented, they are valid, and they beat out any other previous facts or assumptions that have come up in the past, and therefore those new facts should be taken into consideration. The reason I brought up the whole GGD issue is because too many people are complaining about it, even though there's literally NOTHING to back it up vs. BFD having more than enough validity to be considered a Signer Dragon with its strongest fact being that a major character called said dragon "The Fifth Signer Dragon". If thats not enough, then I really can't think of anything that is...--[[User:Sky Scourge God|Sky Scourge God]] 03:21archfiend, February 4, 2010 (UTC):::* I'm with you on this, you know, I haven't argued with you on any of this (especially since I literally said most of it already here). I'm saying other are still arguing and making things have to be locked and it isn't right to have stuff sitting locked with wrong information for a bunch of people who just will not come on board anyway. Unfortunately, anyone will ignore facts when it suits them to. Whatever keeps the dream alive. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 03:39, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :::* Yeah I know, and I agree with you all the way. Locking down the pages seems harsh, especially if none of its been updated, but the reason its locked is because the admins who watch over those pages are waiting to see if its ok to add that info on said pages based on our conversations and whatever facts have been brought up in those conversations and arguements. By the way, I didn't say you were argueing with me, but I do aplogize if it seemed like I was. I never intended to anger people, just wanted contribute my opinions to an important decision/disscusion. Black-rose-[[User:Sky Scourge God|Sky Scourge God]] 03:49, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::* the translation is not accurate he could have saids "is that the fifth signer dragon?" not "that's the fifth signer dragon" so unless it is truely proven and the actual translation of what yanagi said is "the dragons have changed over time" that dosent mean thier appearance has changed and even so i dont think that such a dramatic change is plausible seeing as how all four dragons in ruka's vision look the same as they do now yet now with the introduction of bfd it's said that, that is the fifth dragon yet it looks nothing like the draogn from the vision in the battle against the earthbound immortals so if we have another peice of evidence saying that it is the dragon like a creator of the show some sort of solid evidence that proves ithat bfd is the last dragon [[Special:Contributions/67.158.15.172|67.158.15.172]] 19:33, February 7, 2010 (UTC) == Episode 95 == From todays episode dont understand. If Blackfeather Dragon is not the fifth Dragon, then why Crow´s, Yusei and Jack birthmarks reacted to it as if it happens when a Signer is dueling with its correrspondant Dragon? [[User:DracoX|DracoX]] 16:54, February 3, 2010 (UTC) I've copied this over from [[Talk:Signers]]. It seems better suited here. Ancient-fairy- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 19:11, February 3, 2010 (UTC){{quote|when he saw [[Blackfeather Dragon]]? he said anything about [[Signers]] but I didn't understand it well. did he said that Blackfeather Dragon is the [[Fifth Dragon]]? Because people are adding Blackfeather Dragon to the Five Dragons and Signers chart. [[User:Dark-Shimy|OMG! You did it]] 17:36, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :Didnt understand neither, however Yusei and his Birtmark reacting to its presence denotes this fact "A Signer's birthmark throbs and glows while they are in close proximity of one of the Dragons when it is fighting with a great deal of determination, particularly for the sake of their Signer". Also pointing out Crow´s own Crimson Dragon mark is what made Blackbird reveal this card, as it was apparently acting as a password. [[User:DracoX|DracoX]] 17:54, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Then people should stop adding Blackfeather Dragon being the fifth dragon, there is no enough proof yet. We know, Yanagi said that their looks may change within the time, that means that either Power Tool or Blackfeather is the Fifth. We'll have to wait until Blackfeather Dragon's next appearance. [[User:DarkBlack-Shimy|OMG! You did it]] 18:02, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :::Well is not like the Dragon we seen, but cant deny that Crow´s Signer Dragon. Othwerwise why Crow´s Crimson Dragon mark acted as a password to unlock that card on his Duel Runner. And cant deny what already mentioned also about Yusei and Jack´s marks reacting to it. [[User:DracoX|DracoX]] 18:15, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::I still don't believing that until we see the subbed episode. [[User:Darkfeather-Shimy|OMG! You did it]] 18:29, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::Was there anything else said in the episode to imply that it's one of the Five Dragons? The dragon birthmarks aren't known to exclusively react to the presence of Signer Dragons. Aki's started to glow when her powers manifested. They've also lit-up in the presence of Dark Signers or when a new Signer appears. I think all we can conclude from birthmarks reacting to it is that it's important.::::I'll admit it looks likely to be the fifth Dragon at this stage, but they still haven't said directly that it is (or Also two dragons have they?). And there's still the fact names that it looks completely different than the fifth Dragon we've seen in the flashbacks. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 19:04, February 3, 2010 (UTC)}}:::: People are FAR AND ABOVE too hung up on it "looking like GGD." Why would it? Wouldn't that take away from Power Tool and its importance? Not to mention it should belong to Rudger. Crow would have his own, he is the current Signer and his Dragon would be a Signer Dragon start with him. Jack not only stated in his own words that it was (and many people have done the translations for it already, I guess others are demanding correct subs), but the mere fact that the Marks glow (not just Crow's, but at least Yusei and Jack's start burning) as a show of protecting their fellow Signer is rather blatant. I say again, the hater-aid needs to stop. Crow is the Fifth Signer, period. His Dragon is HIS Signer Dragon. That does NOT take away from there being an "original" Fifth, though really it would be more proper to say "previous" Fifth Dragon. It should NEVER look like the original because it would take away from PTD's importance. As I will continue to say "The Dragons are for the Signers, they are no hoes to be transferred around to new pimps. The pimp brings his own hoes." [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 23:23, February 3, 2010 (UTC) Disregard the above. Jackblack's dialogue was "あれがシグナーの５体目の龍", which means ""This is the Fifth Signer Dragon". That's solid evidence that it is a Signer Dragon. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 23:19, February 3, 2010 (UTC):Is there a chance "This is the Fifth Signer Dragon" could mean something other then "Fifth Dragon"? I mean, how do we know that that sentence is referring to the Fifth Dragon and not the Fifth Signer now having a Dragon? I'm not trying to stir up anything, i am just wondering as to how we know the meaning of the setence.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 03:40, February 4, 2010 (UTC)::** Yes, "Fifth Signer Dragon" would mean something other than the "Fifth Dragon." Given Fifth Blackfeather Dragon isn't anymore official than anything else being used for the name for one thing if you mean "it's not the Dragon every other person keeps pretending it should be," yes, that would mean something other than Fifth Dragon. It is the Current Fifth Signer Dragon, not that other Fifth Dragon that wouldn't belong to anyone but Rudger anyway until the writers decide otherwise and right now, they are not. Fifth Signer's Dragon, not Fifth Dragon. It's sort of what people have been saying in the first place instead of hanging up on this obsession with having a dragon that showed up only once in the whole series suddenly belong to someone else. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 03:48, February 4, 2010 (UTC)That point is considered even if it happens to be that the writers are using that Dragon as a substitute for the original fifth Dragon for a reason. Also to be taken is the fact that mentioned is Jack and Yusei marks reacting kind of like they did when Akiza summoned Black Rose Dragon. [[User:DracoX|DracoX]] 01:24, February 4, 2010 (UTC)::::But nonetheless it is a Signer Dragon.::::: ok people the dragon marks react when a AND Only one signer is fighting with feirce determination and ptd has no importance see if the signer's dragons can change then how come ruka had the vision of everyone's dragon the fifth dragon was not ptd or bfd we all wat the truth but the subs werent correct so if we get true proof not just something said because jack dosent know what the true fifth dragon looks like ibeleive that yes crow's bfd is his new trump card but that dosent mean it's the fifth dragon == Premature release (rephrasing required) == If we want to be incredibly anal, there is a section of this page that reads, "So far 5 of the Five Dragons have been released in the OCG and TCG...". This is technically not true (yet), as [[Blackfeather Dragon]] does not see an official release until February 20th, 2010 in Japan. If, however, by "release" in the card games it is simply meant that they are known, then nothing further needs changing. [[User:Gerhardified|Gerhardified]] 23:13, February 3, 2010 (UTC) == Put Protection Back == Some users keep adding Blackfeather Dragon as the Fifth Dragon even if there is no proof. I think that we have to wait again and put the Protection thing back to stop fans from adding Blackfeather Dragon.[[User:Dark-Shimy|OMG! You did it]] 23:17, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :Agreed, cause to me, we do not have enough proof.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 23:19, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Jack's dialogue was "あれがシグナーの５体目の龍", which means "This is the fifth Signer Dragon". -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 23:22, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :::I understand, and the possibility that they could write that in but have him mistaken the Marks reacting for the 5th Dragon. I'm sorry for wanting to wait until we got further proof and reasoning as to why the 5th Dragon that was shown battling the Earthbounds in the past via Luna's vision is different in looks to the Blackfeather Dragon.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 23:27, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::Not having backstory does NOT change the facts. You might never have the answer you seek in the time you want it, but that doesn't change what Blackfeather Dragon is. And the answer is extraordinary. The Dragon is set when you are made a Signer. It does not FOLLOW Signers around, but your Dragon will eventually find it. The whole show is built on spirituality. What is fact is that the battle has happened every 5000 years, that would mean 10000 years ago as well as 20000. What this means is that there's no way (until told) to know that these Dragons were at the previous battle, nor does it take in account what happens when a Dragon is lost, destroyed or a new Signer is given his. Other than name that dream, all is speculation so no one has the right to say something is any more set in stone than another "theory." All we have is to take what is in the NOW and go forward. Looking like GGD is irrelvant as GGD does not belong to Crow, he has HIS OWN Signer Dragon. GGD technically belongs to Rudger and he is lost. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 23:36, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :::::This probably isn't the place to ask, but what the hell is a "GGD"? --[[User:Bluedog187|Blue]] ([[User talk:Bluedog187|Talk]]) 23:38, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::::"Golden Gaia Dragon" a fan name for the other fifth Dragon. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 01:15, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :I've locked this page and the [[Signers]] article. One on each side of the argument, until we can come to some sort of agreement. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 23:55, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::What agreement? This is like Congress passing a law that supports religious arguments on one issue and science and fact on the same one end with a different law. This is just hating. Plain and simple. Nothing more than people ignoring facts because they don't play into their own fantasies. Just like Crow being a Signer, Rua not being a Signer, Godwin not being a Signer, 4Kids CLAIMING that Godwin was the Signer only to be wrong and had to take it back since they were just pulling more of their "we don't like character development" crap. Just like 5D's taking over and GX getting cancelled. The fact remains that until they give an explanation, we have to go with exactly where the story is at present. You can't middle-ground people who aren't ever coming to the middle. Else you get the equivalent of what is happening right now on the Health Care Debate. How is it if the opposite had been true ( as it was with Rua), people went along with it (the ones who said he was vs the ones who said he wasn't), but when it comes to the more logical side being right, suddenly it's about playing Obama. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 00:07, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :::Because saying "Power Tool Dragon" was the fifth Dragon was introducing unproven facts, making it completely out of the question. Saying that it's not 100% known if BFD is the fifth Dragon is being cautious and not introducing unproven facts. One was fan theory vs. unconfirmed. This is whether or not we're to accept something questionable that was said in the anime as a fact. The latter is something that is worth discussing.:::For anyone only reading now, believe it or not, I am the same side as ShinobiPhoenix on saying that we should call BFD a Signer Dragon.:::I think we should follow what's said in the anime. We should follow what we're told, otherwise we may as well doubt everything we hear in the series. If we find out later, that he was wrong, it's not us who're at fault. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 01:15, February 4, 2010 (UTC):::* At this point, I'm pretty sure this is turning into the Smoke Monster of 5D's. We may never hear the answer and the writers may even PURPOSELY never tell us to make us go more crazy (we watch because we want answers, Lost, Heroes, Decade, all do it), <u>so we can't go around stalling an article because people want to wait until facts catch up to their fantasies</u>. Godwin was wrong and we just went and did the edits that were supposed be done and when he was turned into a Signer for 3 episodes it was changed again and when he lost it and it went to Crow it was changed YET again. Besides facts, we went with it because they like Godwin and don't like Crow or Rua. That's the only reason we're getting people fighting this hard about it. They don't like Crow, they don't like his Deck winning tournaments and they don't like his Dragon (not until someone breaks it and suddenly it's broken). We edit AFTER the facts prove the point. We shouldn't leave it open to discussion when there's several concrete facts in our face. I'm all for locking it if that needs to be done to prevent the obvious vandalism, but it should be locked with the correct information on there. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 02:32, February 4, 2010 (UTC)::::*The hell, when did someone ever say in this discussion that they didn't believe Blackfeather Dragon to be the 5th Dragon because they didn't like crow, or that they didn't like that his deck wins tournaments or anything there of. To my knowledge the only counter argument i've stated and others have stated in regards to not thinking or wanting to wait on more information was because the Blackfeather Dragon and the Dragon that was shown to have battled the Earthbounds do not look at all like each other. That has nothing to do with whether we like or don't like Crow or his deck or any other reason thereof. There is also Facts that say BFD isn't the Fifth Dragon just AS there is facts that say it is. Fact against it being the Fifth Dragon we saw the fifth dragon face the Earthbounds and it doesn't look like BFD and Fact for it being the Fifth Dragon is with what Jack had stated. I'm perfectly fine with saying BFD is the Signer Dragon but we cannot say that it is THE Fifth Dragon due to simple fact they don't look alike, and for all we know is that they could be 2 very different Dragons. Possible Explanation is that the Dragon does in fact reflect it's user in that the Ancestors of the Signers used those Dragons and not to mention we do not know what impact with what Crimson Dragon made when it made Crow the (final) 5th Signer. So, i believe that IF we are going to have BFD as the 5th Red Dragon then we have to make note of the fact that the past and present "5th Dragon's" are different while leaving it open for if/when we find out why the change (if we ever find out when)Archfiend.[[User:AltyrellSoundeffex|Altyrell]] 03:35, February 4, 2010 (UTC) == Can the Discussion Page be cleaned some? == I mean to get rid of some of the information that is either out dated or doesn't belong (ie bringing Real World Political talk to prove a point).[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 01:21, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :It was added as a contribution to a relevant argument. I don't think it should be removed. -- [[User:Deltaneos|DeltaneosSoundeffex]] ([[User talk19:Deltaneos|talk]]) 01:27, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Not to mention who gives one the right to think you can edit other people's statements in the talk area. I guess I should edit your statements that I don't agree with or understand. Oh wait, that would be wrong, literally and morally. This isn't the article itself (which for the most part is supposed to be based more on cold facts), it's discussion with both relative discussion and comparisons to similar situations to better move forward to a proper solution. ''''' "He who does not look back at others' mistakes is doomed to repeat them." ''''' It's there because that is EXACTLY how people are acting on this case and it almost looks like they are trying to down the same path. Learn from those who already screwed up something for the rest of it due to their own bias and proclivities. I guess trial lawyers should stop citing previous cases and verdicts when debating in courts. Leaving opening a discussion that is based on fact for a bunch of people who would prefer to ignore those facts if it will allow them to "keep the hope" longer or disrupt due process for what they prefer WOULD happen is exactly what I was referring to. The same applies here as in "real life." [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 01:44, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :::First, what i meant was that not every Forum User is from the United States or could care less about Politics. Another reason why i specifically mentioned the Political Comment is because it could possibly take the Discussion Off-Topic and onto Discussions about Politics or in this regard it might go off-topic and onto Health Care or whatever. Second, reason why people should be careful when bringing in other comparisons is that it can lead to Discussions about those comparisons. I simply asked that it be gotten rid of so that it didn't accidentally derail the Discussion Page.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 01:53, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::It's not whether you care or don't care about the subject of the comparison, it's a comparison for context. Context of being people being counterproductive and disruptive out of bias. What makes you think I'm American? I live in England. I could easily make a different comparison, but the point the comparison needed to be made and I picked one with a strong and current resonance with a similar problem because we are going down that path to where nothing would ever ACTUALLY be agreed on for the same reason as the problem being compared. Blackfeather Dragon vs Golden Gaia Dragon may NEVER been resolved in such a way or promptly enough to satisfy fans so allowing people to disrupt the current facts to let them save face and harbor their own bias disbelief for a little while longer is just the same. When the facts reflected CHANGE, that should be when edits happen, not arguing about it before all the way until your point if any proves true. [[User:ShinobiPhoenix|ShinobiPhoenix]] 02:01, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :::::This section itself is much more off-topic. Forget about it and focus on discussing whether or not we're to say that "Black Feather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 02:09, February 4, 2010 (UTC) == Compromise == Here is a simple compromise that might calm everyone down. Add Blackfeather Dragon and Crow, but leave the Fifth Dragon as well or even rename the Fifth Dragon to something simple, that way if at some point in the future the "former" Fifth Dragon ever shows up then we can make any necessary changes. Does that sound like a fair compromise?[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 03:58, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :I'm not sure if that was the actual issue at hand here, but yeah I'd go with that. As long as Blackfeather Dragon is considered a Signer Dragon, then its ok. The actual "[[Fifth Dragon]]" page shouldn't be altered (yet), but Blackfeather Dragon is a Signer Dragon for Crow, and thats what should be recognized. --[[User:Sky Scourge God|Sky Scourge God]] 04:06, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Having 6 dragons in the table on an article called Five Dragons doesn't seem right. If we're calling "Black Feather Dragon" and the original fifth sperate dragons, the "Five" means "five at a time". I think we should split the table, like on the [[Signers]] article. Have the current five in the main table and a seperate table for the previous <s>Dragons</s> Dragon. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 12:43, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :::Fair point and that would be better to have it split like that, however you could have the 2nd Table be the Dragons that fought the Earthbounds.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 17:54, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::There's a problem with doing a seperate table for the ancient battle five. They weren't cards back then, so there's no point including the Level, ATK, DEF or Attribute columns. We don't know who their corresponding Signers were back then, so there's no point including a column for that either. That just leaves a column for the dragons and there's no point using a table for just that. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 20:34, February 4, 2010 (UTC) == oh hey guys.... == not trying to be a dick but...I TOLD YOU SO!!!! and like Yanagi said way back towards the beginning....the dragons may have changed forms over time but their spirits still live on. And for those that still are anal about saying that BFD isnt the 5th dragon, if it wasnt, which is IS, would 1: all 5 signer marks glow, and 2: why would Jack say that it is the 5th Signer Dragon? can ya answer that? probably not![[User:Hairball420|Hairball420]] 20:3816, February 6March 26, 2010 (UTC)

:As Deltaneos said above...:"We're not saying youThey're wrong to say "Blackfeather all Dragon" preceeded by a noun treated as an adjective, which is the fifth Dragon. We don't know if that's true also preceeded by an adjective (or nota noun treated as an adjective). We're saying you're wrong to say it"Red Dragon Archfiend's known that "Blackfeather Dragon" original name is the fifth Dragon. If it does actually turn out that "Blackfeather Red Demons Dragon" is the fifth Dragon, you won't "have told me so" anything. At this moment in time we don't know that it's follows the last dragon pattern too. The English translators were either unaware or not. If it does turn out that is, it doesndidn't change the fact that at the time we had care for this converstion it was unknownpattern when they changed "Red Demons Dragon's" name. ":--[[User:Bluedog187Deltaneos|BlueDeltaneos]] ([[User talk:Bluedog187Deltaneos|Talktalk]]) 2021:3808, February 6March 26, 2010 (UTC)

::ok dudeIndeed, what part of Jack said It's the fifth dragon do you not get? and if it wasntas other Synchro Monster that [[Sayer|Divine]] possess; [[Thought Ruler Archfiend]], like i said above, THEN THE MARKS WOULDNT HAVE GLOWED LIKE THAT!, oh, and i forgot to say it how i said i would in the style end with Archfiend instead of abridged Marik....I FRECKIN TOLD YOU GUYS SO!!!!.....Ruler.lol--[[User:Hairball420FredCat100|Hairball420FredCat100]] 2011:4311, February 6April 4, 2010 (UTC)

:: are you one Should people really be trying to count Shooting Star as an Evolution of Stardust in some official, non-speculation form? I mean if it want on 1 Synchro/Tuner and 1 Synchro (instead of just 1 Synchro/Tuner and Stardust Dragon by name), then the ones only thing it really is is a monster that are hellbent sayin that its supposed to look exactly looks like Stardust, but still isn't otherwise. Is it did in really even important? I guess I'm just against the ancient battle?idea of presenting such a thing as FACT instead of just fan speculation and then younger or "not as bright" patrons take it seriously and misinformation is spread and thus we have more and more fighting. [[User:Hairball420ShinobiPhoenix|Hairball420ShinobiPhoenix]] 2011:5012, February 6May 9, 2010 (UTC)

:::hairball you're wrong the translations arnt one hundred percent acurate jack could have said "is this the fifth signer dragon?" so dude quit adding speculation you are talking about the english episodes the actual translation for what yanagi said is something along these lines "the == Evolved dragons have changed over time" which means they became cards and how would it be that all the dragons stay the same excpet for the fifth it makes no logical sense so hairball next time USE SOME FUCKING LOGIC!! and dont just go one believeing what the crummy subs sayunique power? ==

::::Hairball420 you So far yusei and jack have not "told us so" anything. You said "Blackfeather Dragon" is the fifth Dragon gotten evolved signer dragons and we didn't say that you were right or wrong. We disagreed with you saying that we should change the article to say that is the fifth Dragon back before we knew that it was. I still stand by the decision to they have not changed the article to say it was back focused on November 13. I even told you back then that if it later turned out that BFD was the fifth Dragon, I would still stand by the decision. It's alright two words to say it on the article now that we have proof, but describe it wasn't back when we didn't.::Yusei:::We called it speculation, back then and we were right. Just because your theory turned out to be right, doesn't mean that it wasn't speculation. If I made a prediction on how Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's will end, it is speculation. If it later turns out to be rightClear mind, it would still have been speculation when I made the prediction and we should certainly not change articles to accomodate the prediction unless it is proven. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 22Jack:54, February 7, 2010 (UTC)Burning Soul

:::::This is so funny. I think I'll make have a sub few ideas of my own and change "Fifth Dragon" into "Ancient Jellybean Kingwhat the other signers might be." BETTER EDIT THE PAGE. I swear to god. Who <i>cares</i> if it's the Fifth Dragon or not? You people need to chill out and remember that it's <b>just</b> a card game/animeLuna:Innocent heart, Crow:Guardian body, Aki:Pure hands.. And real classy in gloating about the <i>opinion</i> of yourself and about 2 million other people just because it turned out it might be true.--[[User:YamiWheelerDaikari|YamiWheelerDaikari]] 2306:2351, February 7June 13, 2010 (UTC)

::::::This is a Wiki, where information is to be correctI think you're onto something.-"Pure Hands" sounds kind of weird, not some fan club site where we can nickname things what we want. though[[User:MessengerofthedarkScizor99|DemonGodAsuraScizor99]] 0822:0120, February 9June 13, 2010 (UTC)

you guys even tough yusei and jack said that blackfeather dragon is the fifth dragonthere is a posibility that the missing dragon that we all seen may still show up because take it this way. Episode 100th states that an Earthbound vs Machine Emperor duel. Well what if the maker of the show wants us to beelive that the last dragon is blackfeather dragon. What if there may be a posibility of a sixth signer that holds the dragon that we've seen. I know this may sound crazy, but it could be true because the dark signers are destroyed and somehow they come back. Well this could mean that there migth be a sisth signer that has the mark of the crimson dragon like rex goodwin had on his chest, but has it on his back. This could mean that he is the true leader of the signers. This may about Twilight Heart or may not be true, but look of the facts earthbounds return the last dragon is still missing.I know that the old man said they change their apperance, so why didn't the other dragons change as well. this can mean that there is going to be a sixth signer and dragon. Also, because every dragon has come out secret rare in the U.S., so there has to be a least five of the dragons that are. But this is just a prediction.Affection or Something

== 5thDragon I hust noticed something ... Clear Mind, _______ Body, Burning Soul. The three prinicples mind, body, and signer dragon ==soul. Crow's may have to do with body as that is the only one that hasn't been taken yet, but that sound pretty wierd.

there has been confirmation that BFD is a Signer dragon whatever you guys say it is the 5th and final dragon so lock it saying its crows Blackfeather Dragon [[User:Blackwingggys|Wings of Darkness Unite!]] 14:14, February 7, 2010 (UTC):You don't know that it will be the "final" DragonI see were your getting at, cause for all we know but the [[Fifth Dragon]] could still make an appearance, especially IF the [[Earthbound Immortals]] do return.[[User:Altyrell|Altyrell]] 18:28, February 7, 2010 (UTC):*What 'confirmation' question is therewhat about body?--[[Userturbowarrior753 2:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] 19:53, February 729 july 12, 2010 (UTC)

==Blackfeather Dragon You know both Clear mind and other "Signer Dragons"=="Burning Soul appear in the lyrics for [[Blackfeather DragonClear Mind (song)]]" is in however there's no way hints as to Crow's power. However the 5th "Signer Dragon". First, it is not seen words Smash in the flashbacks of ancient battlesfifth line and Drive are capitalized, the Dragons created/summoned by the [[Crimson Dragon]]. SecondCrazy Drive, it is not the 5th Dragon to be used by a Signer, it is currently 7th. "[[Exploder Dragonwing]]" was used by Jack, and if you don't want drive can also mean to count thatcompel or motivate, then count "([[Sun Dragon Inti]]" or "[[Moon Dragon Quilla]]" of Rexhttp://en. Yes, Rex was a Signerwiktionary. Any Dragon used by a Signer, according to all other editors, is a "Signer Dragon", not because it was 1 of the original 5, but because it was used by a Signer. If being used by a Signer completes the criteria for being a "Signer Dragon", then "[[Blackfeather Dragonorg/wiki/drive]]" is 7th in use). Also, keep in mind that the previous owner of "Blackfeather Dragon" did I'm not have sure if this a Birthmark, and had no knowledge of the 5 Dragons typo or the Crimson Dragona hint. Blackfeather Dragon was sealed inside a Duel Runner Wait, which required a password to access. The good intention of Crow's dueling most likely caused the Crimson Dragon to afford Crow the only card available to help him win. So farfifth line, there is no evidence that [[Blackfeather Fifth Dragon]] is in any way connected to the Crimson Dragon. Crow received his Birthmark during a duel, not because he possessed a Dragon, but because he was deemed worthy by destiny. [[User:Messengerofthedark|DemonGodAsura]] 08:14, February 9, 2010 (UTC):*Should we add the ''other'' "Signer Dragons" (such as Exploder Dragonwing, Rex's twin Dragons) since the Article . is now known as "Signer Dragons"this just a coincidence?--[[User:AltyrellAzure Knight-Zeo|AltyrellAzure Knight-Zeo]] 22:3218, March 6July 17, 2010 (UTC)

== Blackfeather Dragon being mistaken as Blackwinged and the fifth Fifth Dragon==I honestly don't believe BFD is the 5th Dragon because why would they base one of the dragons off of an Archetype. Even if the anime said it was the fifth dragon, the anime could have it in the plot to throw off the true identity of the fifth dragon. Plus the fact that in the image on the main page they dipict another random dragon in there other than BFD while BFD isn't in there, humm... that must mean the BFD has nothing to do with what the ending plot. In simple terms BFD is just another Blackwing Monster to be honest with you. [[User:Ahampster1|Ahampster1]] 18:29, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

:Or as Yanagi said they have changed over time The vision seen on episode 113 about Blackwinged being there and maybe not the dragons shape are based of the current signer therefor it might have changed due to crow Fifth Dragon is a hint. Until now they added about Scar-Red being fought before the other 5 Wicked Gods. Following this, during the only signer 5,000 years between this battles isnt suspicious that then something happened to not be born onethis Dragons. [[User:HelioTriceDracoX|HelioTriceDracoX]] 1803:3217, February 8June 16, 2010 (UTC)

== Fifth, Blackfeather, and TROLLING ==Is it just me or are people just VIOLENTLY immature and stupid on this issue? This is why Personally I keep saying it's just more hatred at not liking Crow and not liking the real life version of Blackfeather Dragon. If people cared about balance think they screwed up and keeping in line with the story, the edits would reflect the importance of both. The current version of the page is more in line with is most appropriate. "Signer Dragons" not "Five Dragons." It is very correct wanted to call Blackfeather the Fifth <u>SIGNER</u> Dragon of the series. That is exactly what it is. Say what you want, Golden Gaia (Fifth) has no physical card, representative or story function right now give Crow Black Winged and Blackfeather beat him decided to make that the punch on all 3 accounts. It's not about being a copy of THAT Dragonfifth dragon in recent flashbacks. That Dragon would never go to Crow anyway, and if it goes ot Rua, it won't be a Signer Dragon. Important, yes, as Rua is a MAIN CHARACTER. Signer Dragon... no. He currently has no Signer attached to him and other than a single dream sequence flashback almost 60 episodes ago, doesn't even exist. If it goes to Bruno or something or Crimson makes Rua a Signer once he earns his place, Of course that's fine too. NONE of these things has happened yet and has no reflection to be posted here. So Fifth Dragon is a Five Dragon from the battle, but most certainly not a Signer Dragon until he shows up and goes to a Signer. Most important... HAS A CARD TO CALL HOME. Blackfeather Dragon is the '''Fifth <u>SIGNER</u> Dragon''' of the series. Fifth Signer Dragon, not THAT Fifth Dragon which doesn't even have a name and wouldn't even be the FIFTH Dragon if it shown up as it would be the SIXTH Signer Dragon.** Also as if it wasn't obviously, making bad edits while not signed in so all we see if the IP number just makes you more of a trolltheory. Making supports on bad edits done by anonymous people just makes you '''more obvious.''' In fact, it gives less reason to see things your way.--[[User:ShinobiPhoenixAzure Knight-Zeo|ShinobiPhoenixAzure Knight-Zeo]] 02([[User talk:38, February 9, 2010 (UTC) == blackfeather dragon ==Blackfeather dragon isn't the 5th dragon caz the 5th dragon looks like insect type and it's colour is yellow but black feather is a dragon and his colour is black and doesn;t look like the 5th dragon. rudger was playing with an insect deck and he was a signer so i think this dragon has fall in darkness when he's beaten. {{unsignedAzure Knight-Zeo|Blackbird1351talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Azure Knight-Zeo|08contribs]]) 22:5918, July 17, 8 February 2010 (UTC)}}

Black feather dragon is not Check the fifth dragonrecent opening, sure its used by a signer but Wheres the fifth is a whole different dragon BFD was not in that 5 dragons + crimson dragon versus earthbound immortals battle sure it is a signers dragon but that oviously dosnt make it the fifth i have no problem with people calling it the fifth SIGNER dragon... but may whatever deity rocker or movie star you belive in have mercy on you if you should say its the real fifth dragon Fifth Dragon?!--[[User:XM345|XM345]] (crow is awesome)[[Usertalk:KazisakiXM345|Kazisakitalk]] • [[Special:Contributions/XM345|contribs]]) 16:3254, February 11October 10, 2010 (UTC)

:Indeed, that poor dragon missed out once again. Only two appearance and still no card version already. --<span style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';">[[User:FredCat100|<span style="color:black;"><font size="3">F</font><font size= Signer Dragons vs. Five Dragons "2">red</font><font size="3">C</font><font size="2">at</font></span>]] ^{[[User talk:FredCat100|Ta.P.]] • [[User:FredCat100/friends|F.P.]] • [[User:FredCat100/Ruling List|J.R.]] • [[User:FredCat100/Disambiguation/Memoir_(disambiguation)|W.S.]] • [[User:FredCat100/Theory_of_Evilness_of_Yusei_Fudo|Th.P.]]}</span> 17:11, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

I really think there should have been some discussion before this page ::My theory is that Power Tool Dragon was the original fifth dragon. He died and was replaced with Blackwinged Dragon. Later he was moved from Five Dragons to Signer Dragonsresurrected as a machine. Now that we actually know But that 5D's stands for Five Dragons, is Five Dragons not the more official term for them? -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos]] ([[User talk:Deltaneos|talk]]) 20:44, February 21, 2010 (UTC)just my theory.

:== The '''5D's''' in the title seems to give the term '''Five Dragons''' plenty of merit, but what sources use the term '''Signer Dragons''' ? Ultimately, we are looking for the official collective term for these Monsters. -- [[User:Melik el-Al'ab|Al-Malik]] [[User talk:Melik el-Al'ab|ملك الألعاب]] 23:17, February 24, 2010 (UTC)Members box ==

::Well since the point Del is trying preview for episode 143 says that Leo will awaken a new power, it's obvious to make is assume that all six dragons are used by he will control the Signers[[Life Stream Dragon]]. So we should note it in the members box, but only five exist at and note that Leo is not a time. So Signer, at this conclusion I think Signer is least until the better title, but if we make it five dragons I think we need to include "previous" dragons sectionepisode airs. [[User:D.KaiserDark-Shimy|D.KaiserDark-Shimy]] ([[User talk:D.KaiserDark-Shimy|Talktalk]] <small>•</small> [[:Special:Contributions/D.Kaiser|Contribs]] <small>•</small> [[:Special:EditCount/D.KaiserDark-Shimy|Countcontribs]]) 0716:1845, February 25December 28, 2010 (UTC)

:::I see. So the problem lies in the ambiguity of the statuses of the [[Fifth == Power Tool Dragon]] and [[Blackfeather Dragon]] because they make for a total of 6 Dragons. I have two propositions::::*If the '''Dragons''' have been changed over time (in fiction), then '''Five Dragons''' would be the title, and '''Previous Members''' would be a subtitle.:::*If the members are somehow interchangable in another way, then '''Signer Dragons''' (or whichever title does not imply number) would be a title and '''Five Dragons''' would be a subtitle, with explanation of the definition and role of the '''Five Dragons''' as a team as opposed to the larger '''Signer Dragons''' as a group.:::At any rate, I believe it should be noted that both the "[[Fifth Dragon]]" (perhaps it should be renamed in "Unkown Signer Dragon" or something?) and [[Blackfeather Dragon]] are placed as the "Fifth Member" one way or another, and that more information will most likely be revleaed in the future. This seems to be a temporary dilemma until the fiction explores this fully. -- [[User:Melik el-Al'ab|Al-Malik]] [[User talk:Melik el-Al'ab|ملك الألعاب]] 08:37, February 25, 2010 (UTC)==

::::How can the dragons change if they are known to be the same ones So, should he get a mention in that battled thousands of years ago? Goodwin also said massive counterpart section that the Dragons choose their signers, so how could the dragon change from the one we've seen in so many flashbacks to the blackfeather dragon. There has to be a plot hole somewhere. We should got for RDA and SDD, or does he not count since he's just choose to leave it as it is with the five dragons '''NOT''' including BFD.Synchro Material for LSD? --[[User:Tapper930Blackstone Dresden|Blackstone Dresden]] ([[User talk:Blackstone Dresden|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Blackstone Dresden|Tapper930contribs]] 22) 05:3711, February 25January 16, 2010 2011 (UTC)

::::::Except he meant going from Creature to Card Form not completely CHANGED in their Appearance It might be possible that the Red Nova vision was just how Yusei and if they did/or Jack interpreted the battle with Red Nova, then why didn't with Black-Winged Dragon taking part of the other 4 change any? Also, it is not known battle since they "knew" that [[Robert Pearson]] knew of Black-Winged was the Signers last Signer Dragon. Just saying because if it was not to mention he would have zero knowledge of Crow ever becoming a vision then we couldn't SURELY know if Black-Winged was a Signer. Also, the Crimson Dragon nor Crow's Marking had ZERO to do with unlocking BFD, it was Crows feelings about the children and helping them of that would finally unlock the Compartmenttime.<font color="#FF8000">[[User:AltyrellDark-Shimy|Siguiendo la luna]]</font> [[User Talk:Dark-Shimy|no llegare lejos]], <font color="#FF0000">[[Special:Contributions/Dark-Shimy|Altyrelltan lejos como se pueda llegar ♫]] 02</font> 18:5607, February 26January 23, 2010 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Again, I suggested the fact that Pearson may be a vessel for fate, in which case he wouldn==Shooting Quasar Dragon==Shouldn't know and there could Shooting Quasar Dragon be many reasons why the dragons change appearance throughout time, but then again I'm not going to make pointless speculations or theories when they are irrelevant to the debate. We know there are six dragons and probably five at a time. We can probably document them in one or two ways: a) Under Signer Dragons where all could be list and there could be a section on the current "5Ds" and the past this article as an "5DsUpgraded version", which because it mentions Shooting Star Dragon in this case its text, so it is everyone but BFD and related to the 5th D or b) Do the same thing but with the Five Dragons and have a section being "previous" five dragons. The way I see it all six are SIGNER dragons but they only exist five at a time in which case FIVE is a narrower sub group than SIGNER. So I think that option "a" would be better. [[User:D.KaiserShrev64|D.KaiserShrev64]] ([[User talk:D.KaiserShrev64|Talk]] <small>•</small> [[:Special:Contributions/D.KaiserShrev64|Contribs]] <small>•</small> [[:Special:EditCount/D.Kaiser|Count]]) 0407:0012, February 26April 21, 2010 2011 (UTC)Shrev64

:::::::::This section is for discussing the name of the article. You seem to want the name Should this be renamed to be left alone, regardless of whether Signer Dragons as we consider have Four Dimension Dragons. <span style="Blackfeather Dragonbackground:lightyellow" to be one of these. There are plenty of sections above, which discuss "Blackfeather Dragon> '''s" inclusion. Feel free to post your arguments in one of them, but could this section stay focused on what the article should be named? -- [[User:DeltaneosEllis99|Deltaneos<font color="khaki">Ellis99</font>]] (''' '''[[User talk:DeltaneosEllis99|talk<font color="crimson">^{Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's}</font>]]) 19'''</span> 15:4654, February 26January 15, 2010 2016 (UTC)

::::::::::IUnless there'd suggest moving Fifth Dragon s a good reason to Unknown Signer Dragon and then keeping this page prefer the way it plural form, general policy is or adding Unknown Signer Dragon to the table with a note below it stating that no one's seen to posses that Dragon as a card. Also, Tapper, it's never been said one way or another if Pearson was a Signer, for all we know he could have been one of use the Signers of Roman's generation. Since there was no need singular for them to unite or save the world or anything, that generations Signers never met each otherarticle names. Not saying this is what happened, just posting my theory. {{unsigned<span class="nowrap">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ディノ</span><span style="color:#080;">奴</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千？！</span>]]」^{[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|Blackstone Dresden?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|☎ Dinoguy1000]]}</span> 17:3523, January 15, 27 February 2010 2016 (UTC)}}

* Wow::Okay then. People are being dumb. Watch the anime. It was made official, by the japanese anime, that BFD <span style="background:lightyellow"> '''IS''' the fifth dragon. --[[User:JoshuamaruEllis99|Joshuamaru]] 02:37, March 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Blackstone Dresden and Joshuamaru: Again, this section is for discussing what title to use for this article. See one of the many previous sections about <font color="Blackfeather Dragonkhaki" and the Dragon seen in Luna's dream to discuss them. -- [[User:Deltaneos|Deltaneos>Ellis99</font>]] (''' '''[[User talk:DeltaneosEllis99|talk]]) 02:59, March 3, 2010 (UTC) <font color== Assault Mode == i have a question. Until Blackfeather Dragon(Lvl. 8) was released the two signer dragons with a level of 8 (Stardust Dragon, Red"crimson">^{Yu-Dragon Archfiend) had both, Assault version, and Majestic version of themselves (Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode, Majestic Star Dragon, RedGi-Dragon Archfiend/Assault Mode, Majestic Red Dragon) So is it possible that if BFD is in fact an actual proven fifth signer dragon, would it too be given an assault mode, and majestic version? [[User:Soundeffex|Soundeffex]] 00:32, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Assault Modes were a one-shot idea from the OVA. A Majestic form, however, would theoretically be possible. That said, that is pure speculation. [[User:Burnpsy|Burnpsy]] 00:41, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :ThatOh! 5D's correct, as they're only appear on two main characters; Yusei and Jack, who rival in defense and power, respective. Aki, Luna and Crow not have any rival on their own yet. --[[User:FredCat100|FredCat100}</font>]] 00:43, March 5, 2010 (UTC) == names == has anyone realized that all the signer dragons have three-part names, and one of those parts always includes dragon? Star-dust-dragon, Red-dragon-archfiend, Black-rose-dragon, Ancient-fairy-dragon, Black-feather-dragon.Also two dragons have names that start with '''black''' Blackfeather Dragon, Black Rose Dragon.AND Only one signer dragon has a name that does not end with dragon, Red Dragon Archfiend. [[User:Soundeffex|- Soundeffex]] 19</span> 17:1625, March 26January 15, 2010 2016 (UTC)