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→Problems
:::And when playing in Traditional Format? There banlists don't apply. --<span style="font-family: 'Cataneo BT';">[[User:Montechristo95|<font size="4">M</font><font size="3">ontechristo95</font>]] <sup><font size="3">[[User talk:Montechristo95#top|<span style="color:#000;">talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Montechristo95|<span style="color:#000;">contribs</span>]]</font></sup></span> 00:39, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
::::* Traditional Format will always be based on luck, regardless. I'd recommend that you just don't play in it. Besides, another thing to consider is that a system where cards in your deck determine who goes first is also a hell of a lot easier to manipulate, as opposed to a completely impartial method like die/coins.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 00:41, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::::But still don't you think that luck already plays an awfully big role in this game? And "don't play in it" is not an answer. There are people who do and setting a general rule regarding who goes first wouldn't be a bad idea. --<span style="font-family: 'Cataneo BT';">[[User:Montechristo95|<font size="4">M</font><font size="3">ontechristo95</font>]] <sup><font size="3">[[User talk:Montechristo95#top|<span style="color:#000;">talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Montechristo95|<span style="color:#000;">contribs</span>]]</font></sup></span> 00:46, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
::::::* It's a card game. Of course luck will ALWAYS play an awfully big role in the game. Every card you draw is based completely on luck. That's why people use cards to increase consistency. And "don't play in it" is the blunt answer. Most people who play Advanced Format can see the glaringly obvious flaws in Traditional. If you choose to play Traditional, it's your choice. No point whining about how it's so unfair that a coin flip decides the win, because you're ''choosing'' to play in a format where plays like that are rampant. Anyway, individuals can choose to screw with the game in any way they want, including adding bizarre ways to decide the beginning player, but ultimately, the '''official''' way is to use a coin flip. I just honestly think that the way you decide the player isn't what's flawed, it's the format/cards themselves.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 00:52, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::I know luck plays a big role in the card game. I'm just saying we should find a way to limit that and change a rule that can be changed. And since Traditional Format has so many flaws it's only logical to try to correct at least one of them. And I wouldn't call it "screwing the rules". It's an alternate way to play the game. --<span style="font-family: 'Cataneo BT';">[[User:Montechristo95|<font size="4">M</font><font size="3">ontechristo95</font>]] <sup><font size="3">[[User talk:Montechristo95#top|<span style="color:#000;">talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Montechristo95|<span style="color:#000;">contribs</span>]]</font></sup></span> 00:57, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::*"Alternate" a.k.a "not official" a.k.a "made-up." That's screwing around with the rules. Like, deciding that using the original print God Cards is okay, or playing a Tag Duel. None of these things are accommodated for by the official game, hence, it's screwing with the rules. I'm not saying it's a terrible thing. I just mean, in reality, as long as it's not an official event, you can basically play the game any way you want to, unofficially. You're entitled to try to "fix the flaws" if you want. I just personally think it's pointless. But, I've given my two cents, and you're entitled to yours too, so whatevs.--[[User:YamiWheeler|YamiWheeler]] ([[User talk:YamiWheeler|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/YamiWheeler|contribs]]) 01:02, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
If you have a big issue over coin flips or who gets to call, just play Rock-Paper-Scissors for the first move. Simple as that! For subsequent Duels using the same players, the loser of the previous Duel will get to choose which player begins the next round. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 01:00, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
:It's the same. Again relying on luck. --<span style="font-family: 'Cataneo BT';">[[User:Montechristo95|<font size="4">M</font><font size="3">ontechristo95</font>]] <sup><font size="3">[[User talk:Montechristo95#top|<span style="color:#000;">talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Montechristo95|<span style="color:#000;">contribs</span>]]</font></sup></span> 01:04, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
:Not fully. It's a little bit of a mind game on whether the opponent will be picking one of the hand signs. Many people would choose to go with rock to immediately crush the people who pick scissors first out of habit, while others would try paper to catch those people who exercise this method of thought. Then you have your opponent also thinking the same. There's more to Rock-Paper-Scissors than just "luck", because you can't exactly pick a hand symbol "at random", right? --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 01:11, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Then what about picking straws? That can help. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 01:17, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
:I have a feeling Monte would pull the "that's relying on luck" argument on this one again. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 01:21, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah but there is no other way of doing it besides luck. We don't want to reveal our skills otherwise it would be bad. There is no way of deciding who goes first. What next thing you know, we do I Spy or something? Jeez for Pete's sake, it's the first turn. So what if someone get advantage first, you are going to have an advantage on a few turns. The point is that it doesn't matter who goes first, they just want to play the card game. Come on chess and other games don't do that. Just leave it be. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 01:24, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
In the NFL (National Football League), whoever starts off with ball possession is a huge deal as well, how do they determine who starts off with ball possession? They flip a flippin' coin. If it works for a sport as big as Football without teams complaining about it being "old-fashioned", or "relying on luck", or "messing with their strategy", then I think it should work fine for dueling. Yes, this relies on luck/chance, but chance is impartial and completely fair, you and your opponent have a 50/50 shot of going first. If you don't go first, who cares? Suck it up. [[Special:Contributions/24.22.44.158|24.22.44.158]] ([[User talk:24.22.44.158|talk]]) 00:17, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
==The Best Way To Decide Who Go First==
To decide who goes first in a dual, first play a dual and the winner of that dual can go first in the originally planned game. [[User:Johnnyz|Johnnyz]] ([[User talk:Johnnyz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Johnnyz|contribs]]) 01:26, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
No it would take long. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 01:27, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Lol, I think maybe you are right about that. [[User:Johnnyz|Johnnyz]] ([[User talk:Johnnyz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Johnnyz|contribs]]) 01:59, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Seriously besides who would go first in the first duel anyways? That makes it more complicated. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 02:19, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Well, you would first have to play duel, and the winner of that duel would go first in the next duel.02:22, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
That's a match dude. Look it up. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 02:33, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I see my error. Maybe, the loser of the previous duel should go first? [[User:Johnnyz|Johnnyz]] ([[User talk:Johnnyz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Johnnyz|contribs]]) 02:36, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Some people play by revealing the bottom card of their deck (I know I do). The card with the highest stars gets to choose if he/she wants to go first or second. Then, of course, the loser of the duel (if playing a Match) gets to decide if he/she wants to go first or second. Here are the rules for such a way:
*A Spell/Trap counts as 0 stars.
*If both players have the same number of stars (yes that includes s/ts), then you reveal your second last card, as so on so on. That's the best way to me.---<font style="background-color:black">[[User:Yugioh DED|<span style="color:red;">DED</span>]]([[User talk:Yugioh DED|<span style="color:red;"><small>(Here's my page of messages and the such)</small></span>]]</font> 04:18, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
** Excatly what I proposed before this whole thing got started, it is a great way to decide who goes first. And since everone uses Spells/Traps, anyone could go first. --[[User:BassNettoHikari2|BassNettoHikari2]] ([[User talk:BassNettoHikari2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BassNettoHikari2|contribs]]) 07:13, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
What happened to rock paper scissors/flip a coin/roll a die? Anyway, I usually just voluntarily give it to my opponent, or the other way around. The bottom of the Deck usually works, though it can be unfair is someone's stacking or playing a Yubel/Gallis the Star Beast Deck, so yeah.
04:26, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Well that seems unfair because what if someone had a Malefic Truth Dragon and you don't? I see a lot of unfair advantages. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 05:52, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
It's more likely that a S/T appears on the bottom of the deck than a high level monster--[[User:BassNettoHikari2|BassNettoHikari2]] ([[User talk:BassNettoHikari2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BassNettoHikari2|contribs]]) 07:13, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Coin flip, rock paper scissors, dice roll or cut is fine. which ever is good, it don't matter. [[User:Automation44|Automation44]] ([[User talk:Automation44|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Automation44|contribs]]) 09:27, August 28, 2010 (UTC)Automation44
That's what I was trying to tell them. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 18:34, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
Wow, I had no idea this forum would attract so much attention!
Personally, after reading all of the comments, I feel that the luck aspect needs to stay. It's only fair if there's a luck aspect. But, if someone doesn't want to flip a coin, they should be able to choose a way to decide as long as both players agree on a way and agree it's fair. [[User:Skullvarnish|Skullvarnish]] ([[User talk:Skullvarnish|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Skullvarnish|contribs]]) 19:55, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
A great idea would be to do a rock paper scissors with the card on the bottom of your deck. Since rock paper scissors operates around three possibilities and there are three types of card in yugioh a monster card could be rock a spell card could be paper and a trap card could be scissors. In the event of a tie, you would re-cut your opponents deck and proceed accordingly. [[User:Silvah777|Silvah777]] ([[User talk:Silvah777|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Silvah777|contribs]]) 19:27, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
That's a great idea. However what if they don't have any traps and so on? It might not work out great. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 21:32, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
== Problems ==
The problems I see with both suggestions:
*Turning over cards to decide who wins: Reveals deck builds. Especially with spells and traps both counting as 0. Most decks consist are made up of half trap\spell cards.
*Removing a high level monster from the game: Deck thinning is desirable. Not only would this allow people to start with 39 cards instead of 40, but they'd just throw in a high level monster, like "[[Malefic Truth Dragon]]" or "[[Yubel - The Ultimate Nightmare]]" for the sole purpose of going first.
^wasn't me. Here's my idea: both players count up how many cards that are megabanned (meaning, how many cards in their Deck that are semi limited, limited, or forbidden), and whoever has the most goes second. Only one copy of a card is counted, for example: If I have two Bottomless Trap Holes, I'll count it as 1 for my megabanned list because it's only 1 card. If both are equal, both players count how many limited/semi-limited cards they have, this time counting multiples. If that count is the same, then resort it however they wish. This encourages duelists to know the banlist :P
--[[User:Drew-Gi-Oh!|Drew-Gi-Oh!]] ([[User talk:Drew-Gi-Oh!|talk]]) 03:16, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
At my locals we do the next thing: We cut our decks and show each other the card that shows on the upper half of the deck (in other words we show each other a random card in the deck) then the player showing the card with the most stars goes first,then we just put togheter our decks and draw our hand, if is a tie or no player showed a monster, we do it again. It's actually very quick simple. [[User:HouseholdCatDeity|HouseholdCatDeity]] ([[User talk:HouseholdCatDeity|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/HouseholdCatDeity|contribs]]) 03:16, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
So is the way i described. Konami doesn't give us a die. Konami doesn't give us a coin. If you want to play yugioh, then use what you have. That's why doing either my idea or HouseholdCatDeity's is the best and simplist way..---[[Special:Contributions/69.215.88.7|69.215.88.7]] ([[User talk:69.215.88.7|talk]]) 03:23, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
When going to a tournament, both players should bring the items needed: a six-sided Die, a two-sided coin, items for counters, tokens, Side Decks, and the registration needed for the tournament. --[[User:Drew-Gi-Oh!|Drew-Gi-Oh!]] ([[User talk:Drew-Gi-Oh!|talk]]) 03:50, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
:Don't forget calculators to track LP. Against combat-oriented or stall Decks, it's not too big an issue if you have good memory. Against burn decks, ''every'' single point counts. --[[User:Gadjiltron|Gadjiltron]] ([[User talk:Gadjiltron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gadjiltron|contribs]]) 04:55, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Don't forget card sleeves. Those card can get marked based on the corners. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 21:59, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Also, don't forget that the sleeves must be a solid color. They don't allow sleeves with designs. [[User:Skullvarnish|Skullvarnish]] ([[User talk:Skullvarnish|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Skullvarnish|contribs]]) 23:14, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Don't ever try painting them. It will come out weird. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 23:15, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Wow, I can only imagine someone doing that! Paint's not quite dry and they get caught. [[User:Skullvarnish|Skullvarnish]] ([[User talk:Skullvarnish|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Skullvarnish|contribs]]) 23:19, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Ugh not to mention the paint might get on the card. Whoever is stupid enough to do it, go right ahead. [[User:Fallensilence|Fallensilence]] ([[User talk:Fallensilence|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fallensilence|contribs]]) 00:01, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
