Editing Forum:Great shogun shien

{{Forumheader|Yu-Gi-Oh! Ruling Queries}}

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What happens if my opponent activates demise of the land when i special summon great shogun shien?[[User:Renz0kuken|Renz0kuken]] 04:23, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You cannot activate [[Demise of the Land]] while [[Great Shogun Shien]] is special summoned through it's continuous effect. [[User:ATEMVEGETA|ATEMVEGETA]] 06:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

:It will work.  "[[Great Shogun Shien]]" prevents you from manually activating new cards.  You manually activate "[[Demise of the Land]]", but the Field Spell Card activates automatically as part of resolving "[[Demise of the Land]]".  --[[User:Deus Ex Machina|Deus Ex Machina]] ([[User Talk:Deus Ex Machina|Talk]]) 22:24, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You put me in very deep thinking. Are you sure that it works like that? Is that your opinion or did you find it in a UDE forum or another similar example? Now with a further search I also believe the same thing as you, but I'm still not 100% sure about that. [[User:ATEMVEGETA|ATEMVEGETA]] 23:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

:(Hm, I could have sworn I put "to my knowledge" or something similar in there....) 

:No, it's my opinion.  It's been ruled that you can activate "[[Demise of the Land]]" while "[[Great Shogun Shien]]" is on the field, but they never explained why.  My explanation makes the most sense, to me at least.

:I suppose an alternate explanation is that "[[Demise of the Land]]" is activating the Field Spell Card, not the player.  But the first explanation makes more sense.  --[[User:Deus Ex Machina|Deus Ex Machina]] ([[User Talk:Deus Ex Machina|Talk]]) 21:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok. Let's leave it as you said. [[User:ATEMVEGETA|ATEMVEGETA]] 22:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
*Wait a sec. Isn't that the same as [http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Last_Resort "Last Resort" vs "Field Barrier"]? Where's the difference? [[User:ATEMVEGETA|ATEMVEGETA]] ([[User_talk:ATEMVEGETA|Talk]]) 15:42, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

::Interesting.  I guess that now my second explanation makes more sense.  "[[Field Barrier]]" reads,
:::''Also, a new Field Spell Card cannot be activated.''
::They cannot be activated, period.  Players cannot activate them, and other cards cannot activate them.
::--[[User:Deus Ex Machina|Deus Ex Machina]] ([[User Talk:Deus Ex Machina|Talk]]) 21:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, it is cleared now. Thanks! [[User:ATEMVEGETA|ATEMVEGETA]] ([[User_talk:ATEMVEGETA|Talk]]) 22:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Now I'm confused. What happens with [[Great Shogun Shien]] and [[Demise of the Land]] anyway? Can [[Demise of the Land]] be activated, while Shogun is face-up, and it's effect disappears when it resolves, OR [[Demise of the Land]] cannot be activated from the beginning because you know that its effect cannot resolve? [[User:Blue-Eyes Shining Girl|Blue-Eyes Shining Girl]] 17:56, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

*You can activate "[[Demise of the Land]]" and it will resolve properly.  --[[User:Deus Ex Machina|Deus Ex Machina]] ([[User Talk:Deus Ex Machina|Talk]]) 19:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
**But, why it isn't the same as [[Last Resort]] with [[Field Barrier]]. [[User:Blue-Eyes Shining Girl|Blue-Eyes Shining Girl]] 20:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

::* It isn't the same because with [[Great Shogun Shien]] vs. [[Demise of the Land]], it is not the player who activates the Field Spell, it is the result of the activation of another spell. Essentially it is a Spell Card that "plays" (activates) Field Spells - the player activates only one Spell - the other one is activated as the result of the first one's resolution. In [[Field Barrier]] vs. [[Last Resort]] it is stated that ''new Field Spell Cards '''cannot''' be activated''. That means that a part of the effect of [[Last Resort]] '''cannot''' take place, so the whole effect disappears. It would be the same with [[Demise of the Land]] vs. [[Field Barrier]], I believe. --[[User:Darth Covah|Darth Covah]] ([[User_talk:Darth Covah|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darth Covah|Contribs]]) 21:33, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Basically, in the TCG [[Card Rulings:Demise of the Land|rulings]] for [[Demise of the Land]], it says that the activated Field Spell Card does not start a Chain. Also, it says in the OCG ruling that [[Ancient Forest]]'s effect does not activate when it is activated by the effect of Demise of the Land. SO, I'm presuming this is not a "normal" activation. The player does not activate the Field Spell Card, rather it is "Demise of the Land" that does. This is why Ancient Forest's effect doesn't activate when it is activated by the effect of "Demise", because it says "When you activate this card". "[[Great Shogun Shien]]" says that "YOUR OPPONENT can only activate 1 Spell/Trap Card per turn" (not accounting for activations of Spell/Trap Cards by the effects of Spell/Trap/Effect Monsters). Hope this explanation was easily understandable... --[[User:UltimateKuriboh|UltimateKuriboh]] ([[User talk:UltimateKuriboh|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/UltimateKuriboh|contribs]]) 21:23, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

== Does Shien count as a "six samurai" monster? ==

His effect states that if he would be destroyed I can destroy "another" six samurai monster. So my question is does he himself count as a six samurai monster even though he doesn't have six samurai in his name?
 
I also ask this question about shiens chancellor as well since he to has that effect.{{Unsigned|24.247.0.238}}

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: No, [[Great Shogun Shien]] is not a Six Samurai Monster. It doesn't have the words in the Japanese name.
: It's just a support card. Similar to [[Judgment Dragon]] in [[Lightsworns]]. [[User:Falzar FZ|Falzar FZ]] 06:06, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well, can i destroy another six samurai to save Shien who was gonna destroy by the effect of a counter trap like Divine wrath?(first effect)[[User:Euzonas|Euzonas]] ([[User talk:Euzonas|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Euzonas|contribs]]) 18:04, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

As far as [[Divine Wrath]] goes, you wouldn't be able to save Shien beause he's being negated. Other Counter Traps, I'm not sure. [[User:Skullvarnish|Skullvarnish]] ([[User talk:Skullvarnish|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Skullvarnish|contribs]]) 19:44, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

devine wrath can't negate continous effects so devine wrath can't negate shogun. As for other counter traps, yes, if shogun would be destroyed by them while he is on the field he could be substituted with a six sam monster. It's a continous effect so you can always apply it no matter what spell speed the other card has. [[User:-dest-|-dest-]] ([[User talk:-dest-|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/-dest-|contribs]]) 20:16, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

The first effect isa summon effect, not continous. So that's why i ask ... Just like Grandmaster...

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The first part is a [[Summoning Condition]], not an effect. It does not activate, nor does it start a chain.--[[User:Hide Head Turtle|<span style="border:3px inset blue;">&nbsp;HHTurtle&nbsp;</span>]] [[User_talk:Hide Head Turtle|(Talk)]] 08:25, July 31, 2010 (UTC)