Forum:Card Guard and Future Visions

My opponent has Future Visions in play. My opponent summons Card Guard. What happens? He claims that since Card Guard was summoned it gains a counter. Then he says he can claim priority to move the counter onto Future Visions before Card Guard gets removed from play because of Future Visions. Then next turn when Card Guard special summons itself back into play he claims he would get another counter since it was summoned again which he also puts on Future Visions.

My complaint here is that I do not believe that you can use priority to move a counter from one card to another card because it is not an optional trigger effect and that must be the case in order to declare priority, correct? So Chaos Sorcerer can use priority to remove a monster before a bottomless trap hole would remove it from the field or Caius The Shadow Monarch could use priority to remove from play a card before Future Visions removes him from play. Am I correct? Or can priority be used to move counters?

Also in the case of Caius...if I summon Caius and I target Future Visions. Then Caius is removed from play and then Future Visions is removed from play since chains resolve backwards. Will Caius come back in play my next standby phase or will he have to stay out of play since Future Visions has left the field?

Also what would happen if I summon a monarch and the opponent chains Forbidden Chalice to my effect? Do I lose the effect?

Thanks. 137.104.82.239 16:13, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

1) "If that card would be destroyed, remove the "Guard Counter" instead." This effect is referred to the monster that receives the "Guard Counter" through Card Guard's effect. It cannot be applied to save Card Guard if it is going to be destroyed (except if Card Guard receives a "Guard Counter" from another Card Guard).

Also, even if it should be possible to apply that effect to itself, then since Future Visions's effect does not destroy it, it should be impossible to apply the effect.

Also also, when the removed from play monster is returned to the field during the next Standby Phase, that is not considered a Special Summon, so Card Guard's effect should not be gain a "Guard Counter".

Also also also, removing the "Guard Counter" instead of destroying the monster, does not start a chain, so it don't need priority to be applied.

2) "Once per turn, you can remove 1 "Guard Counter" from this card and place it on 1 other face-up card you control." is an ignition effect that uses a chain.

When Chaos Sorcerer is summoned (assuming by the turn player), his controller can activate its effect before Trap Hole is activated.

If Caius is summoned when Future Visions is active, then both effect will form a chain (SEGOC). If a player controls both effects, then he chooses the order of the chain links. Otherwise, turn player's effect is chain link 1, and non-turn player's effect is chain link 2.

3) As I said before, if a player controls both effects, then he chooses the order of the chain links. So if you place Caius on chain link 2 and Visions on chain link 1, then Caius will resolve first and remove Visions from play, and then Visions's effect disappears since it is not face-up on the field anymore. If Caius is on chain link 1 and Visions on chain link 2, then Visions will resolve first and remove Caius, and then Caius's effect resolves and removes Visions.

If your opponent controls Visions, then your Caius is chain link 1, and Visions is chain link 2.

4) Yes! The effect will be negated.

Ouf! Finished! ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 18:15, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

What I meant with the Card Guard question was that he wants to summon it...move the counter to protect Future Visions (using priority which I say he cannot do)...then he wants Future Visions to kick in and remove Card Guard. Then during his next standby phase he wants Future Visions to bring his monster back and gain another guard counter which he can also place on Future Visions basically trying to get 2 counters on Future Visions so that it is harder for me to destroy. His plan is to keep that card on the field because he is running and earthbound immortal deck. So if he cannot do this why not? And if he can...well fuck my life...lol.137.104.83.183 18:26, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Your opponent is wrong on numerous levels. When a monster is Summoned, "Future Visions" automatically activates as Chain Link 1 (assuming nothing else). Since there is already an effect on Chain Link 1, the Turn Player does not get Priority, so he cannot activate a monster's Ignition Effect. It is similar to "King Tiger Wanghu" - see "King Tiger Wanghu" vs "Exiled Force".

Also, even if "Future Visions" was not on the field, the effect of "Card Guard" which gives it a Counter is a Trigger Effect which starts a Chain. Again, there is already an effect on Chain Link 1, so the Turn Player does not get Priority. "Card Guard" is similar to "Breaker the Magical Warrior". (Also, "Card Guard"'s effect to gain a Counter and "Future Visions"'s effect form a Chain according to SEGOC.)

Furthermore, when "Future Visions" returns the monster to the field, it is not a Summon - the monster just returns to the field. "Card Guard" was not Summoned, so it does not get a Counter.

You can use Priority to activate an Ignition Effect or any Spell Speed 2+ effect. You do not use Priority to activate Trigger Effects (optional or otherwise). If there is a Trigger Effect, then it activates automatically, and you do not get Priority (so you cannot activate Ignition Effects).

Effects like "Bottomless Trap Hole" do not activate automatically, so the player must activate it manually by either using Priority or by activating it in Chain to a previous effect. When "Chaos Sorcerer" is Summoned, the opponent cannot activate "Bottomless Trap Hole" until the opponent either (a) does nothing and passes Priority or (b) activates an effect.

If "Caius the Shadow Monarch" is Summoned while "Future Visions" is active, then the two effects form a Chain according to SEGOC. Assuming that the non-Turn Player controls "Future Visions", it will play out as you said.

If "Future Visions" is removed from the field, then the monsters do not come back.

If your opponent chains "Forbidden Chalice" to an effect, then the effect will be negated. "Forbidden Chalice" resolves first and starts negating the effect, and then the effect tries to resolve, but it is negated so nothing happens.

--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 18:28, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

To "137.104.83.183": Oh! I misunderstood your question then! Well, in that case, read "Machina"'s post! ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 18:35, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

the closest he could get is putting the counter on that is the effect priority would give him, then future vision would remove him dissappating the counter. Lord eriee 07:08, September 12, 2009 (UTC)