Forum:Optional Trigger Effect Question

Alright I'm a little confused right now by one thing in particular. From what I have been discussing with other judges, they have told me that Optional Trigger Effects that start with "When" (ex. Dark Magician of Chaos, Peten the Dark Clown, etc.) can miss the timing whereas the ones that start with "If" (XX-Saber Darksoul, Scrap) cannot miss the timing. I understand why Darksoul works, but I'm mostly confused about the Scraps. For example, if my opponent plays MST on my facedown card, and I flip it to reveal Scrapstorm and use its effect on a Scrap Goblin, why wouldn't the Scrap Goblin miss the timing? So...

• 1) Is that actually correct?
• 2) If so, why?

Thanks! --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 21:50, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

'You can'

It's not about 'if' vs. 'when', it's about whether or not is says 'you can'. If it says 'you can', it's an Optional Monster Effects and can miss the timing. If it doesn't say 'you can', it's mandatory and cannot miss the timing. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:18, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to answer the whole question! Scrap Goblin does not say 'you can', so he will not miss the timing. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 22:20, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

• Scrap Goblin does say "you can" (I'm referring to the adding a Scrap monster to your hand effect). I already know that optional trigger effects are prefaced by "You can..." but the group that I was talking to said that it doesn't matter b/c "If" a trigger is met, it won't miss the timing. However "When" a trigger is met, it can miss the timing. --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 23:07, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Damn! I can't read worth a damn!

Anyways, I don't know about the 'if/when' thing. I've never paid attention to that. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 23:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that if a card says 'If...You can...' it can miss the timing. But, I don't know for sure. Need more people to answer. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 23:17, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Blackwing Breeze

Alright, somebody told me to check the OCG rulings of Blackwing Breeze, and I found out that the "If" optional effect never missing the timing does have precedence. Now I'm just confused as to why it is ruled like that.

• EDIT: Nevermind. In that situation adding Breeze to the hand is still the last thing to resolve in that chain. Well I forgot to look at the part about Graceful Charity. Still I'm confused though. Is it documented anywhere else that "If" optional effects can never miss the timing? --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 00:21, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

No idea. Do you know anymore 'if' cards? Because it's sounding a lot like 'if' cards don't miss the timing. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 00:23, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

See Missing_the_Timing#Optional_Effects_that_Do_Not_Miss_the_Timing. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 00:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, was that always there? Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 00:31, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks Falzar. I didn't even know about this section lol. --Sub (Talk | Contribs) 00:32, September 3, 2010 (UTC)