Forum:End Phase - What can/cannot be done?

Section 1

Okay, I like to think that I understand a lot about this game. One thing that has bothered me for quite some time is the End Phase. I understand that it is the time where a lot of effects are nulled. My question is actually several different parts in one:

• First, If I have a card that can be activated, such as a Quick-Play Spell Card in my Hand or a face-down Trap that can be activated, can they be activated during the End Phase? Specifically without a chain that they attach to?
• Second, the final thing that happens in an End Phase is the Discard of cards if the Turn Player's Hand is greater than 6. Can any player activate cards during or after this?
• If after the Hand Size Limit occurs, my Hand becomes greater than 6, do I discard again?

These are important in situations like when a player uses "Super Rejuvenation". This Quick-Play Spell Card allows the user to draw one card for each of their discarded or tributed Dragons during that turn.

• Can this card have its Draw effect be used after the Hand size limit? According to the End Phase, no. the Hand Size Limit is the last thing to occur. However the Rulings for "Super Rejuvenation" seems to say otherwise. You can activate the Draw effect after you have discarded for Hand size.
• If I draw a "Super Rejuvenation" during my End Phase, can I activate it during that End Phase? Can I activate it if I waited to draw until after I discarded through my Hand Size Limit?

Opinions are welcome, however I am hoping that replies can give set rulings that I can site in the future. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 17:26, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

To be true; you have to playing "Super Rejuvenation" first before discarding them - otherwise you're just discard for nothing. Then after you done discarding till your hand is at it original limitation again, you can draw once more for the effect of "Super Rejuvenation". If you discarded before playing "Super Rejuvenation", you draw nothing. Yes, that's exact what Konami want it to be workable. --iFredCat 20:48, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

FredCat, that is not right. The card does not care if the Dragons are discarded/tributed before or after the card is activated. It just says "during this turn". There is a Ruling that says that the total amount drawn is determined at the time that you choose to use it. Discarding after that will not allow you to draw again. Regardless, this still does not answer any of my questions. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 02:30, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I am trying to say that discard before activate it does not make it workable. Reckless, I will let Falzar or Dinoguy handle this case. --iFredCat 02:38, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

If your part of Ocg it would go like this, you activated super rejuvenation before hand sizeing during the end phase, before the end phase you did not tribute and/or discarded dragon type monster, you only discard 2 dragon type for hand sizeing now you have six card in hand after that you draw 2 card if you drawn another copy of super rejuvnation you can activated at this time before discarding again for hand sizeing, if you do you will draw 2 card before hand sizeing again, if you do not activated the second copy before hand sizeing again, you only hand size again and your turn is over.

If your part of Tcg It would go like this, you activated super rejuvenation before hand sizeing during the end phase, before the end phase you did not tribute and/or discarded dragon type monster, during hand sizeing you discarded 2 dragon type monster after that you do not draw card because your turn is over.96.44.92.186 (talk) 04:39, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

(In response to FredCat) Well actually a discard before the card is activated does count. It counts all discards and tributed Dragons up to and including the draw effect of "Super Rejuvenation" resolving. The rulings make it sound like the draw effect of "Super Rejuvenation" can be activated during the End Phase after the Hand size limit occurs. I am also wondering about the potential behind activating a "Super Rejuvenation" that was drawn by another "Super Rejuvenation". The potential is endless. If you use a "Hieratic" Deck that has monsters like "Hieratic Dragon of Nebthet" and "Hieratic Dragon of Su" with the monster "Hieratic Seal of the Dragon King". If you have a "Superalloy Beast Raptinus", you have an everlasting tribute lined up. Just tribute one for a "Hieratic Seal of the Dragon King" in your Graveyard and then tribute that for the first monster. This will rack up tributes and make "Super Rejuvenation" into more of a "draw your Deck" card.

With that idea, understanding the limits of this card are crucial. Unless someone abuses that combo above relentlessly, there will only be a few tributes to allow a user to draw. Drawing five cards could be great, but drawing another 6? How about a third "Super Rejuvenation" for another 10? That card could be a strong card in that Deck - IF you can use "Super Rejuvenation" and other Quick-Plays during the End Phase. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 05:09, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

(In response to 96.44.92.186) You still leave some questions. The OCG part was confusing. However that case, it still seems that you think that it would work as I do. Your TCG explanation is only applicable when I chose to not activate the card before the Hand Size Limit occurs. That is negligible. I only care if the combo would work. Also, where did you get these ideas? Cite reasons please, like I requested. opinions matter little without backing in this game I am afraid. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 05:09, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

That's not counted - I had many discussion with other users, and they are admins/pro judge like ATEM, that it must be first activate before Tribute/Discard the Dragon. But yes, you're on the track - it can be activate during End Phase of the turn... --iFredCat 11:14, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

FredCat100:If it is true that you have to activated super rejuvnation before discarding and/or tributed to be able to draw card during the end phase. You should update the super rejuvnation tip page because this folowing text would be invalid.

Discard 2 Dragons for "Magical Stone Excavation" to recycle this card. In doing so, you can draw up to 4 cards.

96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:34, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

S.R could all discarded/tributed cards, no matter the cards are discarded before or after its resolution.--Lê (talk • contribs) 14:33, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Fixed, that part of "Magical Stone Excavation" don't work - you only can draw 2 each time "Super Rejuvenation" is playing and memorized how many copy of Dragon being discard/Tribute afterward. I am sorry, LordGeo, but it's how Konami want it to be workable. --iFredCat 13:53, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for updating the tip page on super rejuvnation it will be less confusion for new commers.96.44.92.186 (talk) 14:20, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Never mind. Konami should make the card lore better - it look horrible oldfart to me. --iFredCat 16:10, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Section 2

Okay, as far as it is, there are two things that need to be said thus far. First, FredCat, 96.44.92.186 and Magicknight94, the card doesn't say after activation or anything like that. It says During this Turn. So, regardless of intention, it has to be used that way. (Just like how the wording has messed up the intention of cards in the past. (For example, the use of "Fairy Meteor Crush" did not intend for the user to equip it to the opponent's monster.) Konami can, when the feel like it, make a Ruling or Errata. Until that point, you must follow the card. Second, no one has answered ANY of the questions that I have asked. If you want to debate the use of "Super Rejuvenation", that can be done on another forum. This page is for the End Phase questions. I have enclosed the following from above with rulings and references that I have found so far.

• If I have a card that can be activated, such as a Quick-Play Spell Card in my Hand or a face-down Trap that can be activated, can they be activated during the End Phase? Specifically without a chain that they attach to? - Answered, Quick-Play Spell Cards can be activated during any Phase of the Controller's, regardless of chain.
• The final thing that happens in an End Phase is the Discard of cards if the Turn Player's Hand is greater than 6. Can any player activate cards after this? - Unknown, possible OCG/TCG difference?
• If after the Hand Size Limit occurs, my Hand becomes greater than 6, do I discard again/does the Hand Size Limit occur again? - Relating to question two, This could become moot if there is no possibility to activate effects after the Hand Size Limit.
• Can "Super Rejuvenation" have its Draw effect be used after the Hand size limit? According to the End Phase, no. the Hand Size Limit is the last thing to occur. However the Rulings for "Super Rejuvenation" seems to say otherwise. You can activate the Draw effect after you have discarded for Hand size. - OCG Ruling, otherwise question is the same.
• If I draw a "Super Rejuvenation" during my End Phase, can I activate it during that End Phase? Can I activate it if I waited to draw until after I discarded through my Hand Size Limit? - First question is moot. Quick-Plays can be activated during the End Phase. Second part relies on the answer to question 2. If effects/cards can be activated after the Hand Size Limit, then the End Phase would revert to before the Hand Size Limit and therefore would allow the second "Super Rejuvenation" to activate.

--LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 19:15, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Further, I would leave this to ATEM since he would understand you well than I do - no offensive, I give you a great respect for give so much thought on this part where Konami have not covering or explain why it is happening that way. Again, no offensive if I sound little haste and lazy at this point - I am just Judge LV2, unofficial, with lack knowledge of how the game mechanic work in different way - I do know the field destruction but not this part. --iFredCat 21:47, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Not a problem FredCat. This is something that Konami has sat on for quite a while. It only causes problems when the Judges 'have to make rulings on the spot and that just leads to further problems. It is why I have not been interested in becoming a Judge myself. I have been playing this game since ... Oh GOD! It has to be 2001 or so. I know a large amount of this game in all the different ways. It just comes to a point that there is frustration with Konami and this is sadly one of the issues. I still have an incredibly difficult time understanding the difference between Inherent Special Summons and other Special Summons. It just is too confusing.

There should never be any shame in saying that you do not know the answer. I, myself, had to admit that I did not know this answer because I made this topic. Unless Konami sticks their nose in, we only have what they already gave us and I don't know how exactly it works. Just keep an eye on this topic and maybe you may learn the answer with me. :) --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 23:53, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yea, why can't I learn some new trick or two? Though I am might older than you are, I have to learn some more. --iFredCat 00:14, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

I will try to answer LordGeovanni question base on what I know now, that I did not know before, however I will let user Atem to tell me if I'm wrong or not.

1. You can activated quick play spell or trap, from you hand during the end phase before handsizing occurs regardless if it chains to another card or not. No ocg/tcg difference.

2. Situation for OCG only: You have 9 cards in you hand, during your end phase you activated super rejuvnation, after this you now have 8 cards in your hand, you discard two dragon type monster card from your hand to make you hand 6 card, after that you will draw 2 card makeing your hand 8 card, you have drawn another copy of super rejuvnation, you activated that copy you have now 7 card in hand, you discard one dragon type monster card to make you hand 6 card, after that you draw one card, after that you have now 7 card, you did not draw your 3th copy of super rejuvnation, you discard one dragon type monster from your hand you turn is over.

3. Situation for TCG only: You have 9 cards in you hand, during your end phase you activated super rejuvnation, after this you know have 8 card in your hand, you discard 2 dragon type from your hand to make your hand six card, after that nothing else happen because your turn is over.

my explanation in number 2 is only correct if konami did not decided to ad the common sence of TCG to OCG.96.44.92.186 (talk) 13:22, May 3, 2012 (UTC)