Forum:Ignis Manticore Burn

Now, I know this is an unusual "Billy Deck", but this is something I came up with on a fly for a project of mine, and I actually think it's rather fun and ingenious. The trick here is the loop between Manticore of Darkness and Flame Spirit Ignis: each time I Tribute Manticore for Ignis' effect, I use one of my many FIRE Beast/Beast-Warrior monsters to revive it, allowing me to retribute it for Ignis' effect next turn while at the same time netting me an extra 100 points of damage to the opponent each turn. By my calculations, just by using this loop, I'd only need to stall the opponent for around 12 or 13 turns before I completely destroy their LP. Of course, I've got cards like Solar Flare Dragon and Spiritual Fire Art to deal more damage, and I've got plenty of stall and recycling cards to reuse my key cards (Royal Firestorm Guard is mainly there to recycle any of the Ignis' that get dumped into the Graveyard). It's not a perfect deck, and there's no way in hell (no pun intended) that this will match up to the netdeckers, but it's a unique take on the whole burn deck, and I think it'll perform fairly well, as a result. 66.228.109.2 17:27, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Fixed your decklist. Runer5h 19:45, October 15, 2009 (UTC)Runer5h

Wrong card. Forceful Stop is what I meant, not Forced Requisition. 66.228.109.2 19:54, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I sugest Gaia Soul the Combustible Collective because he pierces, is summonable by Flamvell Firedog, and is WAY MORE AFFECTIVE THAN GAROOZIS.(WHY?!?!?!?!!??)--Helix-king 22:03, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

You didn't read the purpose of this deck, did you? Otherwise, you would've noticed the quite obvious Messengers of Peace, and my explanation that most of the damage caused by this deck is done by tributing Manticore of Darkness for Flame Spirit Ignis' effect over and over again, necessitating as many Fire-Attribute Beast/Beast-Warrior monsters being in the deck as possible. Garoozis fits the requirements for this deck, and Gaia Soul does not, so the former will stay and the latter will NOT be put in. 66.228.109.2 22:16, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I did read the decks explanation and came to the conclusion that your deck's strategy was about as flexible as a Iron rod. I just made a suggestion to include a easy-to-summon monster that is strong, Fire, and provides you with options. You could obviously attack, or tribute for Spiritual Fire Art - Kurenai, or Flame Spirit Ignis in case of the POTENTIAL absence of a certain necessary manticore. I just wanted to help give you options, how long did you even think about my advice before assuming I did not even read your explanation?--Helix-king 22:26, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I've got three Manticores, two Foolish Burials, and two Star Blasts, as well as a Transmigration Prophecy, two Feathers of the Pheonix, and two Pot of Selflessness. I highly doubt I'll be out of Manticores for very long, and besides, I've got Great Angus, Flamvell Firedog, and Ignis itself and Royal Firestorm Guard to act as beatsticks, if need be. Besides, you didn't mention using Gaia Soul for Ignis or Kurenai, just that it can do piercing damage and how it can be summoned out with Firedog (which needs to BATTLE to summon a monster out), so I do believe that I have some precedence to assume you did NOT read my explanation of the deck. And in case you haven't noticed, burn decks tend to be rather rigid in their strategies, by their very nature (since you'll generally have to stall the opponent to get the burn to happen, and it's not easy to transition from stalling for burn to going in guns blazing in battle), so if you don't have anything else to contribute, I'd suggest you please go away and let someone else who would bother to read what this deck is about and does know how the mechanics of a burn deck work take a crack at giving constructive criticism. Good day, sir. 66.228.109.2 22:39, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that was really considerate.... obviously, I was speaking sarcastically. You didn't need to jump down Helix's throat.

Honestly, I think Gaia Soul would be great for a game-winning push if need be. The combo with Firedog really is stunning, and you can always tribute it with Kurenai for a quick 2000 burn. Helix was right; Gaia Soul would increase the deck's flexibility, but not detract from its main goal. Runer5h 22:46, October 15, 2009 (UTC)Runer5h

No, I don't think so. I've got plenty of beatsticks in posse, and they're only at most 300 ATK less than Gaia Soul. Plus, like I said, I NEED the majority of my monsters to be Beast/Beast-Warrior to effect the combo, and unlike Gaia Soul, they won't self-destruct at the end of the turn; if I don't have Ignis or Kurenai on the field when that happens, and I haven't killed the opponent, at that time, then I'm screwed. I thought about using something like Fox Fire or even Nephthys as a replacement, but they need to be destroyed to activate their resurrection effects (which kinda kills their potential as a Manticore replacement); I also thought about replacing Garoozis with Firewing Pegasus, but thus far, it hasn't officially been released or announced to be released in the future in the TCG (cards like Forceful Stop and Pot of Selflessness are in sets that have already been announced in the TCG), so it won't work, either. I'm sorry, but right now, I'm sticking with Garoozis until another, better option is released. 66.228.109.2 23:42, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough, I can see that my suggestion is not helpful, tell me then, how about Des Koala? your Dark Bribes will give your opponent hand power in addition to their own. A nice little beast type, acceptable DEF, although not FIRE....Have you also considered Secret Barrel? I include some in my burn deck, maybe they could help you?--Helix-king 22:52, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

This deck was primarily created for a story project of mine, focusing on "Billy Deck" duelists who form a club to get away from the elitists that harass them for their decks, and I've got their decks pretty clear in my mind, so I'm forced to constrain myself to certain restrictions: the monsters, for instance, have to be of the same Attribute, and the majority of them have to be of the same Type. Besides, this takes place during GX, and I don't really want to use cards that are already staples on existing characters' decks, meaning Des Koala's out (not Fire, and Chumley's using him). To be perfectly honest, I also think I've got enough burn cards in this deck; three Ignis, three Kurenais, and two Solar Flare Dragons should be enough, methinks. I did think about putting in stuff like Mass Driver or Linear Accelerator Cannon, and my mate suggested Dark Room of Nightmare (for a little added burn each time I used one of my burn cards), but I did my calculations on how long it would take for me to burn the opponent's life points to ashes with just the Ignis/Manticore combo, using only 1 Ignis and 1 Manticore, and I only need to stall for 12 full turns. That's not long at all, honestly, and considerably less time than your average burn deck. Like I said, if I can find any more suitable replacements for some of the trouble spots in this deck, I'll take them, but right now, the monsters stay put. I WILL consider some of your suggestions for a side deck, though; I was looking at Backfire for another potential burn card, but dismissed it since it required the monster to be destroyed by battle (which, again, isn't the focus or point of this deck), but I might put a couple copies in the side deck. 66.228.109.2 23:42, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and quick question: Are you TCG or OCG, this is relevant.--Helix-king 23:19, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I consider myself a hybrid duelist; I mainly build unique decks and play them against friends for fun (and I DO use the Advanced Format for my decks). So, as such, this deck is built accordingly. Keep that in mind when I post a deck. 66.228.109.2 23:42, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Fun is important in a game. However this does not quite answer my question, do you live in an Asian country? or the States? I would like to help this deck and your answer is important to that end. If you would be so kind.--Helix-king 23:47, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

The US, but I don't get why that's so important if I play hybrid. I use both OCG and TCG cards in my decks (which, seeing as I play strictly for fun and don't attend tournaments, I can do), so my physical location wouldn't have any impact on how I'd play the game or how you'd comment on this deck. 66.228.109.2 23:54, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, when you responded with "Advance Format", I thought I gave the wrong message. But It was relevant Because I wanted to know what Synchro monsters you had available to you. Even though you don't have tuners, Natural Tune could solve that, and with Star Blast, synchroing should be a breeze! Of course this is only if you want to Synchro, which may deviate you from burn, but it is a nice back up :D--Helix-king 00:14, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

...that clinches it; you aren't reading a damn thing I'm writing. I just said that this deck is based on a story taking place during GX, meaning Synchros don't exist, yet. And, since this is a Billy Deck, Synchros would not be in it. Is this all you have in mind for your commentary on this deck? Elitist strategies and cards? Please leave, and never comment on another deck of mine, again. It's obvious you aren't going to give me the courtesy of even trying to understand the basis of whatever decks I post, or read any of the responses I give, and are just going to rattle off crap that goes absolutely contrary to what the deck is trying to accomplish. Thank you for wasting my time. 66.228.109.2 00:24, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

You never mentioned the GX thing, and I'm no Elitist, I have a particular disdain for Archetypes. Take note that my best/favorite deck is based on Gradius Games. You can trash my advice, can me names, and even challenge my interest in helping you and other people. But DON'T EVER INCLUDE ME WITH THOSE TOURNAMENT JUNKIES! I PLAY FOR FUN AND NOSTALGIA, NOT TO WIN EVERY SINGLE DUEL AT THE COST OF FUN AND STRATEGY! I WON'T BE COMMENTING ON THIS ANYMORE IF YOUR SO HIGH ON YOUR OWN SUPERIORITY, I'LL LET THE OTHER PEOPLE HERE HELP YOUR FIRE DECK. Don't call this a billy deck, you will not use that title as a crutch for your strategic failures. UNDERSTAND--Helix-king 00:56, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Read the bolded text in my comments above. Yes, I did mention GX, which clearly shows you don't read a damn thing I say. And randomly suggesting the use of Synchros in a deck that is clearly not built with Synchros in mind, as well as suggesting well-known elitist tournament staples like Des Koala and Secret Barrel are elitist strategies. This isn't me being "high on my own superiority", or using the title of Billy Deck to describe this deck as a "crutch for my strategic failures", this is me pointing out that you obviously have no interest in understanding the strategy or basis of this deck, or listening to a damn thing I tell you when I try to explain such things to you, and are thus blind to how your "improvements" don't do jack to help this deck. This is me not tolerating with a troll who IS high on his own superiority and believes that he knows how to build a deck far better than the people whose deck he's commenting on. And I've seen your decks; they have no strategy to them, and only your Gradius deck looks even remotely original (which it isn't, really; you just threw together as many Gradius-related cards in as possible, and called it good). Any future comments from you on this or any other deck I post on here will be erased and reported as trolling. Good bye. 66.228.109.2 01:10, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, you know what, I'm getting tired of reading this rediculous discussion. Okay, fine, you're not an elitist, Helix, but neither should you go around suggesting people to alter their decks, especially when that person or persons is looking for a specific theme with his decks.

Yes, his deck isn't perfect, but that's the thing: there is NO such thing as a "perfect" deck out there. Each and every deck has a flaw of some sort, and quite often, making the attempts of fixing the flaw only makes a deck weaker. Personally, I have a deck that has a specific theme but has mostly weak monsters in the deck. That's my flaw, but I always play with that deck anyway, not caring if I win or lose.

Do me a favor, though. Make a copy of the exact deck that this man put up, either by real cards or that Netrep thing, then test it out against someone else with that deck. THEN come back and give your honest opinion.Chamelion K 01:25, October 16, 2009 (UTC)