Forum:Prime and night assailant = infinite discards

1a) Ok my question is can I have a Prime Material Dragon on my side of the field and have a Night Assailant in my hand and in my graveyard. Then when my opponent activates lighting vortex can I send the Night Assailant from my hand to the graveyard to negate lightning vortex and then have night assailant's effect activate since it was sent from my hand to the graveyard to return the other night assailant to my hand?

1b) Also...same scenario but no night assailant in my graveyard. Can i send night assailant from my hand to the graveyard and then return itself since it is a flip effect monster and it's effect wouldn't activate until it is in the graveyard. So could it return itself for it's effect?

2) When Ehren attacks a defense position monster is that monster flipped face-up before it is returned to the deck?

3a) When my Shura kills an opponent's old vindictive magician by battle what happens first? Does old vindictive destroy Shura or does Shura special summon a blackwing?

3b) If Shura is killed before it can special summon something do I special summon anyway since the effect would still activate?

3c) Can I declare priority as the turn player to activate Shura's effect before my opponent destroys my Shura?

3d) If I can special summon before they destroy my Shura can they destroy the blackwing i chose to special summon?

Thanks 137.104.83.207 17:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• 1. Since "Night Assailant" is Limited and it can only return itself if there is another copy of it in the Grave, the first questions are pointless. Danny Lilithborne 17:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• 2. Yes. Danny Lilithborne 17:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• 3. If Shura is destroyed before it can carry through with its effect, it disappears. All these questions would have been answered in the Rulings pages. Danny Lilithborne 17:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

actually, neither part of the first question are pointless. Yes, Night Assailant is limited. but thinking of possible scenarios and ruling conflicts usually helps us better understand the rules of the game. Besides, in a friendly duel, duelists sometimes agree on their own ban list. anyway, the fact that Night Assailant only affects the first part of the first question. in the second question, he's asking if Night Assailant, having been sent to the graveyard to pay a cost, can select himself as the target of his own effect. I do not believe so, and I believe this is strictly a "Because Konami Said So" ruling, and it's my opinion that it should otherwise be possible. again, it depends on the rules that each duelist agrees on. though in official tournaments, Night Assailant is limited, and he is not able to target himself through his own effect. you can find out more on the Night Assailant Rulings Page. Interestingly enough, the page claims that if you do have two Night Assailants sent to the graveyard at the same time, they can each select each other as a target in order to return both to your hand. I don't see how that is in any way practical, but it's interesting xD

~Specter (cow_pi) 18:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK, the ruling was made precisely to prevent infinite recursion. IMO, the best solution would have just been to make it Forbidden. Danny Lilithborne 18:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I would agree with that. though based purely on rulings, I would say that it should work, and that it's just because Konami said so that it can't. I think the best solution would have been not to give such an effect to a flip effect monster in the first place. I would have made Night Assailant a "when this monster is flip summoned" card instead of an actual FLIP monster.

~Specter (cow_pi) 18:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

So I can't use priority as the turn player to activate Shura's effect if a old vindictive magician targets it? why not? 137.104.233.168 22:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• Flip Effects occur during the Damage Step. For the most part, monster effects that have to be activated cannot be activated during the Damage Step. Danny Lilithborne 00:52, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Priority has nothing to do with it - see Breakdown of the Battle Phase. "Old Vindictive Magician" destroys "Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame" at Substep 6. At Substep 7, the effect of "Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame" would activate, but "Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame" is not face-up on the field, so the effect cannot activate. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 21:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)