Forum:Ratings and Discussion Wanted

This is my Spellcaster deck. I've been using and tweaking it for around a year now, and would like some advice on how to make it better, or any strategies that I might not have thought up. Also, I have $10~ to spend on cards to improve it.

This is a deck that I made on my World Championship 2010, and I would like some thoughts on how well it would work in reality, and what you would think if you were to duel it.

Any comments?

Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 18:59, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

*Sigh*

*Bump*

Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 23:46, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

I'd think it's all over the place :3

What do you want it to do?

-Resk (✩) 00:02, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

• 1. Run Decks at 40 cards.
• 2. Don't try to do too many things at once. Pick one central idea and choose every card based on that idea.
• 3. Anything worth running is worth running in multiples.
• 4. The less conditional a card is the better.
• 5. The more Card Advantage you result in from using a card, the better.
• 6. Single-use cards without lasting benefits are bad. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 00:06, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Now then, which deck are you talking about when you say it's all over the place? Because the second one (I call it perfect harmony) is most definitely all over the place. I kind of intended it to be that way when I first made it :)

And Resk, the point of it is to confuse my opponent, and for almost everything in it to be able to come out at a moments notice.

Anyways Lappyzard-

1. Run Decks at 40 cards.

Everyone says to do that, but I'm terrible at it. However, the PoG counts as -1 card, plus its a free spell counter, making the deck = 47 cards. Then you have Peten the Dark Clown, who acts as cannon fodder and searches himself. That means that two of them don't really count towards the total, making it = 45. Apprentice Magician gives me a free spell counter, and searches for Magician of Faith or Old Vindictive, dropping the total to 44. Magician's Circle is a little iffy since it requires something to attack, but most people only run Magician of Faith or the like, if they have any Spellcasters at all. So it's a free card as well, giving me a total of 43. And the two Royal Magical Libraries work as draw engines. So I think I'm fine there.

2. Don't try to do too many things at once. Pick one central idea and choose every card based on that idea.

The deck was built around the idea of getting spellcasters who got an attack bonus from spell counters, and then giving them another bonus from Solidarity. Most, if not all of the cards in the deck reflect that. Endymion is in for his ability to kill stuff for discarding a spell, usually Magical Blast. Blast Magician kills stuff as well, albeit in a more limited way. Breaker is reusable s/t removal and a beatstick, while Dark Red Enchanter can give me hand advantage when I'm not using it to summon Arcanite Magician. Anything with over 1000 attack can function as a beatstick when Solidarity is out, so...

And actually, the many methods I have for removal (Breaker, Endymion, Magical Marionette, etc.) make this deck extremely adaptable. I can consistently beat everyone in my group except my brother, who uses a swarm-beatdown insect deck with 2 Ultimate Insects. So do tell where you think it might be straying out a little from the strategy I outlined.

3. Anything worth running is worth running in multiples

Actually, most of the cards in this deck are all the copies I have, and in addition I would have to remove cards to add anything else. I do want another Solidarity and Citadel of Endymion, however. But I'm not sure what I would remove for the Solidarity (I would take out Yami for the other Citadel, though). And, the more powerful cards in the deck I do run in 3's (Magical Dimension, Pitch-Black Powerstone, and Spell Absorbtion).What do you think that I should get multiples of, and what should they replace?

4. The less conditional a card is the better.

Not sure how this applies to the Spellcaster deck, since the most conditional cards would be Magicat and Arcane Barrier. But I do understand that. After all, look at how bad Accumulated Fortune is in a normal deck.

5. The more Card Advantage you result in from using a card, the better.

That's plain obvious. Magical Dimension is what I think of when I think card advantage. Same with Magician's Circle (I get any of the monsters in my deck but one, and you get nothing, or your weakling spellcaster which I then proceed to destroy with my 2000 attack monster.)

6. Single-use cards without lasting benefits are bad.

Do tell, do you see any in my deck?

Of course, this all seems like beginner's advice, and I'm no beginner. I've been playing since the 4th grade, and I'm a sophomore now. I was actually asking for other peoples thoughts on the deck when I posted this. Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 03:34, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

I'll be honest, I didn't look at your deck very closely. I just saw that it was way over 40 cards with a ton of singles, so I posted my general deckbuilding advice. Take it as you will.

Let's start with the first deck. Of your 17 different monsters, only 6 of them are run in multiples. This is about 1/3. In almost all of my decks (and most top decks), nearly every single monster is run in 3s, with 1 or 2 being run in twos or alone. Magician of Faith is banned. Apprentice Magician, Crusader of Endymion, Defender the Magical Knight, Endymion, Magical Exemplar, and Tuned Magician, should be run in multiples or not at all. Sunny Pixie, Magicat, and Peten the Dark Clown should never be run (in Peten's case, see Missing the Timing). Pixie and Magicat are horrible, and Peten is severely outclassed by Reborn Tengu. I don't care what you're running, run Tengu. The only excuse you have for not running Tengu is Solidarity. Lightning Vortex is outclassed by Dark Hole. Magical Blast is terrible. CItadel of Endymoin should be run in 3s or not at all. Pot of Avarice is out of place in this deck; it doesn't load the Graveyard fast enough for it to be good. Pot of Greed is banned. Spell Absorption should be run at 2 at most. Stall (i.e. Swords) does not belong in decks that aren't meant to stall or are capable of abusing it like Mist Valley. Yami is a terrible, terrible card. If you honestly think it's worth running, quit this game now and find a different one. Divine Wrath is outclassed by Effect Veiler (who is a Spellcaster, so no excuses there). Draining Shield and Magic Cylinder are outclassed by a number of cards that aren't worth running either. Cylinder only has a place in Burn. Life Points don't matter. What matters is controlling the field in a way that makes it impossible for your opponent to win. That's why every top deck runs 10,000 LP worth of costs. Pitch-Black Power Stone should be run at 2 at most. You run a huge risk of dead draws. Sakuretsu Armor is outclassed by Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute, Dimensional Prison, and Compulsory Evacuation Device, the latter two of which should be run in multiples. You lack so many staples, including Book of Moon, Dark Hole, Giant Trunade, Mystical Space Typhoon, Mirror Force, Seven Tools of the Bandit, Solemn Judgment, Solemn Warning (Bottomless Trap Hole for poor people), and Torrential Tribute.

As to running decks at 40 cards, it's something people have been doing for the entire history of the game and there has never been a successful deck with more than 42 cards that wasn't Lightsworn, and even Lightsworn is best run at 40 cards. 40 isn't even low enough sometimes. There was a period where running 37 (3 Upstart Goblin) was popular. But if you and you alone know more about how to do well at this game than every successful player in the game's ten-year history, then far be it from me to disagree with you. As for your response to number 6, yes I see plenty. Magical Blast. Spell Absorption. Yami. Draining Shield. Magic Cylinder. Notice anything? Aside from Yami, they all have to do with Life Points, their main purpose being to swing LP in your favor. Yami is just a terrible card with a pathetic boost.

No disrespect to you; I made many of the same mistakes when I first started out, and I didn't care about what people said would be "competitive". Until I tried some of it. It worked. And having a good deck is a lot more fun than having a bad one. You say you've been playing for 6 years? Well, here's a news flash: experience doesn't make you any better if you keep playing at the same low level you started at. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 04:39, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Finally, true, unbiased criticism. And a note, I haven't gone out and bought a pack of Yugioh cards in about a year or so, which is why I don't have any of these new cards.

Alright, for your points. I know that Magician of Faith is banned, I can easily take it out. Besides, we all play traditional where I am. Crusader costs money, which I don't happen to have at the moment, so 2 more is highly unlikely, and 1 more a slight possibility. As for Apprentice Magician, I only have 2 monsters that I can summon with it, one banned, which is why I have one right now. Endymion, Magical Exemplar, and Defender I only have one copy of each currently. I know Sunny Pixie sucks, but I don't have any other spellcaster tuners right now, so I'm stuck with it. When I can, I'll replace it with Nights End Sorcerer, but for now, I'm stuck with it. Thinking about Magicat, I see your point about it being bad. It'll go too. I know all about Peten missing the timing, but he's not as bad as Pinch Hopper on missing the timing. I use him as cannon fodder and deck thinning, and he's usually the way I summon Arcanite (Peten+Tuned Magician). Plus, I don't have money to get Reborn Tengu, not with how popular it is. Dark Hole might be cheaper than Lightning Vortex, but it's not often that I have an empty field when I play (could have to do with the fact that one of my friends uses lockdown, and the other uses Earthbound Immortals). I'll probably Side Deck Dark Hole, and alternate with Lightning Vortex as need be. Citadel of Endymion is cheap, so I won't have any problems there. I use Pot of Avarice to get cards back that I need, usually my Arcanite and spell counter monsters. I know Pot of Greed is Banned, we (my friends) all use it, so it doesn't matter between us. It too can be easily taken out of the deck. I see your point on Spell Absorption, sometimes all my zones will get clogged. I use swords to buy time, long enough to accumulate spell counters or to draw a some destruction card. Yami does suck, but it is slightly better than having no field spell on the field. And actually, one should quit this game when they think that those level five 1800 attack monsters are good. Effect Veiler, I had never even heard of, and apparently costs quite a bit of money. but the thing I like about Divine Wrath is that it destroys the monster as well. Don't forget, too that it's much harder to stop a Divine Wrath than it is effect Veiler. But I do agree that it's cheaper to use. Unfortunately for me, with the people I play with, Life Points do matter. For one thing, I'm used to having to kill multiple Immortals per duel, and usually, the first turn they're out I take a hit. So in my current environment, LP matter. Until I change environments, I'll have to side those cards. I know Sakeretsu isn't as good as Mirror Force, but I don't have Mirror Force, and I would love to have one. As for Torrential Tribute, look at the thing about Dark Hole. Seven tools of the Bandit, again, my environment doesn't use too many traps, so it would become a dead draw. I would use Solemn Judgment, but I'd die to the next immortal to come out anyways. I don't use mystical space typhoon because of Breaker, and it would be kind of redundant to have both. Book of moon, there's the money problem, and the s/t space where I would put it is usually occupied by Magical Dimension.

"As to running decks at 40 cards, it's something people have been doing for the entire history of the game and there has never been a successful deck with more than 42 cards that wasn't Lightsworn, and even Lightsworn is best run at 40 cards"

Never knew that, however, where I live there is absolutely NO ONE who ever has tournaments, so I can't ask any of the experts. I guess that my brothers deck is proof of that. He has an insect deck that is extremely fast, for not being a Synchro deck. Then again, I don't think that I've ever dueled someone using the current meta.

And as for those cards you named, Draining Shield and Magic Cylinder, I have no better replacements for. Magical Blast I never use for burn, and I hardly use it at all, but I have no better cards to allow me to get a lot of spell counters. Spell Absorption I have from when this deck was first made, and again, in my current playing environment, LP matter more. And you're right about Yami.

Actually, where I live, the meta has no influence on us. So how am I supposed to know any of these things?

And no, I am most definitely not at the same level as where I started. When I started, I had no idea how to strategize, and one of the decks I remember making was a pathetic cross between the XYZ machines (not the new type of monster these monsters) and the Harpy archetype. So I'd say I've improved. And I've never even played in a real competition. I don't know what it's like, or what a competitive deck plays like.

P.S. Sorry if I accidentally said anything twice. I'm too tired to go over it and reread it.

Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 07:54, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Apprentice Magician > Apprentice Magician > Apprentice Magician > Old Vindictive Magician. Deck Thinning, Stall, and finally monster destruction. Don't forget that Apprentice Magician can search itself. Dark Hole doesn't need to be played wit an empty field, but chances are pretty good that if you actually need to play it that you won't have monsters out that you need to keep. Pot of Avarice is played in decks that can put 5 monsters in the Graveyard on turn 1. This is not one of those decks. Pot of Avarice is bad in this deck. I'm fully aware that you use Swords to buy time; that's all it can be used for. However, as I said before, stall should not be used in decks that aren't meant to stall. This is one of those decks. If you really need to accumulate Spell Counters, just play 3 Spell Power Grasp. Yami IS slightly better than having no Field Spell, but having a different card that you can actually use is better than having Yami. That one usable card can make all the difference in a duel. And I don't know anyone who seriously plays level 5 1800 ATK monsters. It's much easier to stop a Divine Wrath than an Effect Veiler: the only thing that can stop Effect Veiler is Divine Wrath. Divine Wrath can be stopped by just about any Counter Trap. If you're really having to deal with that many Immortals, you should absolutely be playing Typhoon. If anything, Breaker is redundant due to MST. MST is superior in every way. Just set it and use it on the field before the Immortal gets a chance to do any damage. No field, no more Immortals. Mirror Force and Book of Moon are Structure Deck Commons in 3 different Structures, it shouldn't be that hard to pick one up. Solemn Judgment does not have to be used immediately. If you wait until you're at 2000 LP or something, then which is better, giving up 1000 or losing? Magical Blast is a horrible card to use for Spell Counters, you give up your draw for minor burn damage and 1 counter? That's the worst strategy I've ever heard, second only to Forum:Shapesnatch OTK. If you really need Spell Counters, I'll again point you to Spell Power Grasp.

"Actually, where I live, the meta has no influence on us. So how am I supposed to know any of these things?"

That's what we're here for. I went to a tourney once when I was still a noob and I got crushed. I spent a ton of time on this site and I became a competitive player just from reading forums and discussing strategy. The very next tourney I went to I won. It only takes a few months to get to where I can tell you are. The other five and a half years have done nothing for you. The guy who just won Nationals has only been playing about a year, but he was playing at the highest levels right from the start. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 16:40, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, well here's my 2 cents on the matter:

• Get 2 more Apprentice Magicians, they're REALLY good for deck thinning and searching
• Ditch Magician of Faith and Magicat, they don't help at all since you don't seem to synchro much
• Get 1 more Old Vindictive Magician, he's searchable by App. Magician and will destroy stuff when flipped up
• Peten the Dark Clown to me is unnecessary, he's just there to be there. I'd say ditch him.
• Ditch the 2 Sunny Pixies and 1 Tuned Magician for 2 Night's End Sorcerer and 1 more Magical Exemplar, they work really well when used together.
• Take

76.237.1.66 (talk) 18:53, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Apprentice Magician > Apprentice Magician > Apprentice Magician > Old Vindictive. I feel stupid for not realizing that strategy, and I can always flip one of the magicians for a spell counter. I might have one Spell Power Grasp, but if I don't, it is cheap. As for Divine Wrath vs. Effect Veiler, I'd probably run two of each, using my side deck for them (2 effect veilers in main, 2 divine wraths in side; 1 of each in each deck; or 2 wraths in deck and veiler in side. I believe that I stopped using MST because I thought it sucked. I am now corrected on that. The best way to hit Immortals is to hit the field spell when they're being summoned; that way Ccarayhua and Assla Piscu don't get the're effects, nor can they attack. So MST goes in as well, however, Breaker is also a beatstick. How do you think that I should balance MST with Breaker? I see your point on Dark Hole, I'll probably alternate it with Lightning Vortex in the side deck. I might replace Yami with Secret Village of the Spellcasters until I can get more Citadels. I'll just buy Mirror Force online. It seems that I should just buy another Spellcaster's Command deck to get most of these cards cheap. I can find it in Walmart or Target, can't I? As for Magical Blast, I have nothing better than it. Does 2 Spell Power Grasps and a Recycling sound like a good one? Because it sounds good on paper. That Shapesnatch thing sounds hilarious, now I want to try it on my WC2010.

As for what you're saying here, I know what you mean. I've already learned some things from being here. And actually, its taken me about two years to get to where I am. The first 4 years I played didn't help me. The thing about that guy who won Nationals only playing for a year? I'm impressed.

Oh, and something that says a lot about the skill level of my area. I hosted two little unofficial tourney among my friends. In the first one, I got to second place with a deck that's worse than this one, and in the second one, I got to 3rd place or something. Then one of my friends held a small unofficial tourney, where I got to second place, beaten by none other than my brother with his insect deck. For the last one, I was using the previous version of this deck (Dark Magician beatdown/Spellcaster burn). Now then, tell me how good you think that my area is.

Actually, I was wondering if you could duel me on YVD. First I'd use the deck as it currently is, then I'd use a version that looks more like what you're suggesting. Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 19:20, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and anon, the Apprentice Magicians are easy to get (I must have 5 floating around somewhere), and I've already decided to ditch magicat. MoF leaves when I'm at a tournament anyways, so I keep it around for casual play. Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 19:36, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Spell Power Grasp should be run in multiples, 2 if not 3. 2 MST and 2 Breaker. Main deck Dark Hole. Always. Spellcaster's Command is now out of production, you can probably only get it online. If by Recycling you mean Recycle, then no, don't run it, 3 SPG would be better. As for your area, I think it's full of scrubs and I'd love to watch their faces if they played a meta deck. I'd be happy to duel you, but I'd rather do it on Dueling Network. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 19:43, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Two MST and Breaker? I can do that. For now, I'll just replace magicat and yami with the two MST. I know to Main deck dark hole, what I meant was side deck lightning vortex in case I need extra removal, or if I'm against the type of deck that leaves my monsters alive. As for the SPGs, alright, no recycling, I'd have to buy it anyways. One of my friends has a SPG, I can get it off him (unless I don't already have it), one from Caster's Command, and one from the internet.

Whats dueling network, and where do I find it?

You're right about their faces, and I'd love to see that too. Plus, my personal nickname for my town is Hickville. Not to mention about half of the high school smokes pot.

Actually, lets get on the IRC to talk. It's easier than the delayed forum post.
Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 19:56, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

By IRC, I presume you mean http://webchat.freenode.net/ Channel #wikia-yugioh ? If not, then please tell me where. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 20:05, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

No, that's exactly where I meant.Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 20:13, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

This is what I've changed it into, and now I need some help reducing it to 40~ cards
Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 22:08, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

- 2 Cerberus, -2 Magical Marionette, - 2 Library, -1 Magical Dimension, - 2 Spell Absorption, -1 Spell Power Grasp, -1 Magician's Circle, -2 Pitch-Black Power Stone. +1 Book of Moon, +1 Giant Trunade, +1 Mystical Space Typhoon, + 1 Terraforming, +2 Bottomless Trap Hole, + 1 Solemn Judgment, + 1 Seven Tools of the Bandit, + 1 Torrential Tribute. That'll bring you to 42, which isn't bad. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 22:29, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

I forgot to say that I had multiples of a few cards. Here it is now, but its at 44 cards.
Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 22:42, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

-2 Spell Power Grasp, -2 Spell Absorption and you're good to go. Lappyzard (talk • contribs) 22:47, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

I have no problem with taking out the Spell Absorptions, but I feel that I should keep the Spell Power Grasps. But if I take out both, then I'll put back in the 1 magical dimension for 41 cards Mad Rubicante (talk • contribs) 22:50, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Pot of Duality is coming out in a tin next month, so might I suggest -1 Magical Citadel of Endymion, and -2 Spell Absorption for +3 Pot of Duality, as it greatly increases consistancy in slower decks,

-Resk (✩) 17:34, July 25, 2011 (UTC)