Forum:Ruling questions

1. The Rulings page in Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame said this:In order for its effect to activate, “Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame” must be face-up on the field when the monster it destroyed by battle is sent to the Graveyard. This means:
   1. If Shura and the other monster destroy each other by battle (equal ATK), Shura’s effect does not activate.
   2. If Shura is destroyed by a Flip Effect like “Man-Eater Bug,” Shura’s effect does not activate.
   3. If Shura is flipped face-down after damage calculation by a card effect, such as “Desertapir,” Shura’s effect does not activate.
   4. If Shura is removed from play by battling “D.D. Warrior,” Shura’s effect does not activate.
   5. If Shura is destroyed by an effect after the monster it destroyed by battle was sent to the Graveyard, such as “Michizure,” Shura’s effect DOES activate, and you can Special Summon a monster.
      1. NOTE: These rules also apply to any other monster with the text “When this card destroys an opponent’s monster by battle and sends it to the Graveyard….” (Examples: “Hydrogeddon,” “Goyo Guardian,” or “Elemental Hero Flame Wingman.”)
      2. These rules do NOT apply to monsters with the text “When this card destroys an opponent’s monster by battle….” (but does not specify “and sends it to the Graveyard”). (Example: “Blue Thunder T-45”.) Monsters with that text will activate their effects in ALL of the above scenarios.

How are they different?They seem to be the same except for the send to graveyard part.

1. If Zeta Reticulant is descarded as a cost for Karma Cut ,do I get a token?
2. This is a Ruling from the page of Crystal Abundance :
   1. You cannot activate this card while "Macro Cosmos" is active.[1]
   2. You can activate this card while "Dimensional Fissure" is active. The "Crystal Beast" Monster Cards sent to pay the cost are sent to the Graveyard, not removed from play

How are the situations different?

1. Can Royal Oppression be used against Super Polymerization ?115.135.245.166 03:17, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

1. The latter need it to send it to the graveyard to activate its effect while the other does not need it to (if Macro/Dimen is in the field).

2. You will still get a token since "Zeta Reticulant's" effect is mandatory.

3. Crystal beasts that are treated as Spell cards can be used as cost even "Dimensional Fissure" is active because they're treated as spell cards not monsters. Macro prevents you to use any cards to be sent to the graveyard as cost wherein 'Dimensional Fissure" only prevents you to use monster cards to be sent to the graveyard as cost.

4. You cannot chain anything in response for "Super Polymerization" so you can't negate it with "Royal Oppression".

--SilentHero26 11:12, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

I think the main focus of your first question is timing.

• I attack with my monster.
• Then destroy your monster by battle
• Then effects activte
• Then the monster goes to the graveyard.

If I used a monster that needed "Destroy by battle and send to Graveyard", then the effect will activate after the last part of the list above. If it just needs to "destroy by battle", then the effect activates during the third step in that list, along with flip effects etc. If a Man-Eater Bug is attacked, my monster's effect can be activated because Man-Eater Bug is "destroyed by battle" but it isn't "sent to the Graveyard" until after the flip effect is carried out. because the monster needs to be on the field, face-up between the attack and the effect/monster going to the graveyard, Man-Eater Bug can preven the monsters that need to "destroy by battle and send to the Graveyard". --LordGeovanni 13:48, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Both "destroys by battle" and "destroys by battle and sends to the Graveyard" effects have the same activation timing (Sub-Step 7), after the monster is sent to the Graveyard. The difference is that the first kind of effects do not need the destroyed by battle monster to be sent to the Graveyard, and the attacking monster doesn't needs to be face-up when the monster is sent to the Graveyard. Instead, the second kind of effects, they both need the destroyed by battle mponster to be send to the Graveyard, and they need to be face-up on the field during the Sub-Step 7 in order to see the destroyed by battle monster being send to the Graveyard. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 21:27, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Obligatory link to the Breakdown of the Battle Phase.

Using unofficial terminology, Trigger Effects have "triggers" - what's needed for the Trigger Effect to activate. For example, "Sangan"'s "trigger" is "Sangan" being sent to the Gravaeyard; "Blackwing - Shura the Blue Flame"'s "trigger" is "Shura" destroying a monster by battle and sending it to the Graveyard. And so on. For effects like "Shura" and "Blue Thunder T-45", "Shura" and friends need to remain on the field to "see" the "trigger" occur. After they "see" it, then it doesn't matter.

For "Blue Thunder T-45", all it needs to see is the monster be destroyed by battle, which occurs entirely within Damage Calculation (Substep #4 in the above breakdown). So it doesn't matter what happens to "Blue Thunder T-45" afterwards - the effect will still activate, since it already "saw" its "trigger".

For "Shura", it needs to see the monster go to the Graveyard, since that's part of its "trigger". If "Shura" is removed from the field before it can "see" the monster go to the Graveyard, then the effect doesn't activate, since it didn't "see" its "trigger".

--Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 23:51, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Please tell me if this is true because the Tips Page of Hate Buster suggests otherwise: If Yubel is destroyed by Hate Buster , it will miss the timing to Special Summon Yubel - Terror Incarnate ?110.159.5.55 08:01, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

From this ruling:

""Hate Buster" inflicts damage equal to the original ATK of the destroyed monster after it is sent to the Graveyard or removed zone."

It looks like the damage inflicting part occurs after the destruction of the monster. Since the burn and destroy are not simultaneous. Yubel should Miss the Timing.

Regardless, the damage and destruction are treated as being simultaneous. "Yubel" won't miss the timing. --Deus Ex Machina (Talk) 20:25, March 2, 2010 (UTC)