Forum:Yosenju Help

This is how I understand the Yosenju monsters by problem solving card text.

Normal summoning a "Yosenju" monster does not activate any effect upon summoning, unless there was a "Yosenju" monster present on the field before it's normal summon. You can activate the effect of a "Yosenju" monster, only if you control another "Yosenju" monster. You can activate an effect of a "Yosenju" monster if there is a "Yosenju" monster already on the field, you pendulum summon a "Yosenju" monster before or after the initial normal summon of that monster, or you special summon a "Yosenju" monster before or after the initial normal summon of that monster.

Can anyone explain why people are just throwing two yosenjus at a time onto the field with nothing else on the field? Like say the other yosenju monster it takes to activate it's effects?CardCruncher (talk • contribs) 22:09, December 5, 2014 (UTC)CardCruncher

You have things mixed up, I believe. This is how their first effects work. When you Normal Summon one of the Kamaitachi brothers, its effect allows you to Normal Summon an additional different Yosenju, but only right after you Normal Summoned it. So you can't Normal Summon, activate Msytical Space Typhoon, for exmaple, and then Normal Summon again, you have to summon the entire chain of monsters once you start doing so if you want to put them all onto the field. The second, unique effects of both Kamaitachi and Kamamitachi require another Yosenju on the field to be used, but only those effects. I have no idea what your third point means, but you seem to be hopelessly confused. Check out their uses in the anime for some examples, as they were used correctly there. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 22:17, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

Obviously you take your card rulings from others instead of using problem solving card text. Take Kamaitachi for instance. His text reads "If this card is Normal Summoned, you can: Immediately after this effect resolves, Normal Summon 1 "Yosenju" monster from your hand, except "Yosenju Kamaitachi". If you control another "Yosenju" monster: You can target 1 face-up card your opponent controls; return it to the hand. This effect can only be used once while this card is face-up on the field. During the End Phase, if this card was Normal Summoned this turn: Return it to the hand."

You and so many other hopelessly clueless people summon them both out, one immediately after the other. when it says "If this card is Normal Summoned, you can: Immediately after this effect resolves.." There is the first thing people are misreading. A successful normal summon is not a resolution of an effect. Thus it means after the resolution of it's own effect which reads "If you control another "Yosenju" monster: You can target 1 face-up card your opponent controls; return it to the hand." That is an effect that can resolve. At which point you can "Immediately after this effect resolves, Normal Summon 1 "Yosenju" monster from your hand, except "Yosenju Kamaitachi".

But you must already control a yosenju to activate his effect, bounce one, THEN normal summon another from hand.

PSCT dictates that this is how the card reads, so why are you and so many other playing these cards incorrectly?CardCruncher (talk • contribs) 22:55, December 5, 2014 (UTC)CardCruncher

No, YOU'RE misreading the effects correctly. Look at the Japanese text/the translations (you can find those on the Organization). Those are TWO SEPERATE EFFECTS. The Yang Zing have the same wording for their Synchro in the the opponent's turn effects; they're effects that activate and the resolve just so that one knows that they start a chain. (Actually, I'm a bit iffy on the exact mechanics, Le's probably the best person to quantify it). Besides, the BSCT is unofficial at the moment for the English cards. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 23:04, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

So normal summoning a Yosenju from your hand activates and resolves an effect simultaneously, allowing you to perform an additional normal summon immediately afterwards?CardCruncher (talk • contribs) 23:16, December 5, 2014 (UTC)CardCruncher

I'm not quite sure if it works like that, but yeah. I'm pretty sure that the effect will always activate upon the summon, but you don't have to summon a Yosenju. I've sked Le to clarify, hopefully he can explain it better than me. Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 23:21, December 5, 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate your response & opinions, but from what I've gathered Upper Deck Entertainment no longer has the authority to make or enforce card rulings for Konami. So everyone is basing their card rulings on rough translations from Japanese cards in the OCG? This "Le" individual was also less than helpful than expected in an alternative thread of an unrelated matter. No one can source their so called information is my issue. It's just a bunch of people parroting one another. CardCruncher (talk • contribs) 00:46, December 6, 2014 (UTC) CardCruncher

How about the fact that they were used this way in the anime, eh? Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 00:49, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Really now!? I didn't know that. That makes me think even more so that they should NOT be played this way. Were you around for the very first days of this game when anyone could do anything and it was Mayhem!?! That was because of that phrase right there "It works that way in the Anime". Years of people holding this reserve in their mind that when all else fails we should resort to the cartoon is preposterous. I'm just looking for official TCG rulings and if their aren't any then I guess North America and everyone in it are SOL?CardCruncher (talk • contribs) 01:04, December 6, 2014 (UTC) CardCruncher

They don't have official TCG rulings because they haven't been released in the TCG yet. Are there no points to help you on the pages for the Kamaitachi brothers? Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 01:09, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so the rulings aren't on their pages. Huh. Here's the link to the OCG ones, if you're interested. (They're translated as Hermit Yokai there.) http://ygorganization.wpengine.com/ocg-special-pack-tribe-force-rulings/ Sanokal K-T (talk • contribs) 01:15, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

CardCruncher, I am not fully aware of how confused you may still be, however please give me a chance to finish explaining any existing confusion. All of the "Yosenji" seem to have this same effect: "If this card is Normal Summoned, you can: Immediately after this effect resolves, Normal Summon 1 "Yosenju" monster from your hand, except (monster's name)." This means that the following happens during its Normal Summon:

• Player in control (called Player 1 from here out) Normal Summons a "Yosenji" monster.
• Player 1 has a chance to respond to the Normal Summon. The effect of the "Yosenji" can and must be used here if Player 1 wants to use it.
• Player 2 (the opponent) can chain to Chain Link 1 or start a chain if Player 1 did not want to use the effect of that "Yosenji" monster. Cards used here would include "Trap Hole" and "Bottomless Trap Hole".
• Other cards can be chained, but in resolution it would look like this:
• Chain Link 2 ("Trap Hole" in this case), Is used to destroy the Normal Summoned "Yosenji" monster.
• Chain Link 1 allows a Normal Summon to occur immediately after the chain resolves. Chain ends.
• Normal Summon of a "Yosenji" monster occurs here. No other effects can be used or activated prior to this occurring.

The major thing that causes issue is when the Normal Summon occurs, the chain is already over. Due to this effect limiting itself to "If this card is Normal Summoned, you can:" while also being a Spell Speed 1 effect, this effect cannot be used as Chain Link 2 or above. This is the reason why it works after the chain. --LordGeovanni- (Talk To Me) *Kupo* 20:40, December 7, 2014 (UTC)