Forum:March 2013 Banlist Predictions

My predictions

It's been a bit more than two months since the September 2012 list became official, but now that we've had some new archetypes and new cards, I wanted to make this page for anyone's predictions in the upcoming banlist for next March. This is what I think will happen as of now:

Banned

• Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - He's just too powerful; can get rid of any monster and can win duels by himself.
• Monster Reborn - No matter how you justify it, being able to bring back one monster from either player's graveyard at no cost is just too unfair.
• Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - This card is more powerful now that Atlanteans are running rampant. Then again, unlike Brio, he has a once per turn restriction. But if Konami doesn't hit this they probrably will hit Marksman or Infantry (see below).

Limited

• Sinister Serpent - Too slow for today's meta. It would create too many pluses or discard loops if it was at 2 or 3 (Hand/Card Destruction anyone?), but it's not broken enough to be banned. One is just fine.
• Queen Madolche Tiramisu - This isn't a guarantee, but if you insist hitting Madolches...
• Rescue Rabbit - He isn't as broken as Rescue Cat was, but being able to instantly summon any rank 2-4 XYZ monster is too good IMO. Dino Rabbits can still run 3 gold sarcs, a Sangan, and TGU Leviair anyways. Also abusable in Evilswarms, Dragons, Machines, and Warriors.
• Tragoedia - He's pretty multifunctional, being able to summon himself whenever you take battle damage, he can steal an opponent's monster, and xyz/synchro just about anything you want. He'll be better at one, like his close cousin Gorz, than at 2.
• Atlantean Marksman/Heavy Infantry/Dragoons - Atlanteans are starting to get on my nerves. They'll probrably hit Gungnir if they don't hit any of these three(see above).
• Torrential Tribute/Bottomless Trap Hole - These cards are more powerful now that Ignition Priority is revoked. If Konami doesn't hit one of these they should hit the other.
• Miracle Fusion - If this isn't limited it should at least be semi'd. Summoning Absolute Zero or Shining from your extra by baishing monsters from your grave is hardly ever fair, not to mention it's free fodder for Shining's second effect, if it's destroyed and sent to your grave.

Semi-Limited

• Advanced Ritual Art - This card isn't as broken as it once used to be, but setting up your grave with whatever you want in your deck is quite good. It isn't as crazy as it's cousins (like Future Fusion) though.
• Scapegoat - Stall decks aren't topping a whole lot today, and if this is semi'd it might be a good way to slow down the meta.
• (maybe)One for One - As long as GUB (see below) doesn't come back, this might be able to come up to 2 to assist slower decks that revolve around mystic piper, kinka-byo, morphtronics, ect.
• Wind-up Shark/Magician/Rat - Wind-ups are still pretty good, and Shark + Magician on your first turn = spamming like crazy. Any one, or two, of these cards might get hit next March.

Unlimited

• Primal Seed - Since BLS would be banned per this list, this card can come back to 3 again.
• Spore - No one runs more than one, since it only works once a duel. Limiting it was pointless.
• A Hero Lives/E-Call - If Miracle Fusion becomes limited (or semi'd) like I suggested, these two can probrably come back to 3 again.
• Magical Stone Excavation - Who runs this card again?
• Reasoning - See Magical Stone Excavation.
• Glow-Up Bulb - Give plants their Bulb back; all the good synchros are dead anyways.

Anyone has the right to criticize my predictions, but these are just my personal opinions. If they come out with more broken cards in the coming weeks/months I'll update this list. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 19:31, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure about Rescue Rabbit, sure it makes a quick Rank 4 summon, but you don't see it in many decks besides Dino-Rabbit, and with 1 less Tour Guide and 1 less Rabbit, the deck has slowed down, and now isn't really taking YCS by storm. Tragoedia not too sure about him, he's good and all, but he's pretty useless in the mid and late games, as his ATK isn't that high, while Gorz gains utility as the game drags on. I agree on the Atlantean thing, they will be hit, in some form, although not sure if Gungnir is the way to go. I want to agree to Torrential in a way, but there are lots of decks that special summon constantly, so having answers to them is useful, although Konami might just hit TT, they'll probably leave Bottomless alone, as it's been at 2 for years. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:46, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Rescue Rabbit is used in plenty of decks. There is Machina Rabbit (Gear Gigant X + Mechanicalchaser), Dino Rabbit (duh), the now new Bahamut-into-Creature Swap/Mystic Box Acid Golem and, of course the infamous Noble Rabbit.--Let the Number take hold! 21:52, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

I find cards like Torrential Tribute annoying when I run into them, but then again, Konami might decide not to hit Torrential next format. Konami semi'd Mirror Force in the September 2012 format, which tells me they're trying to slow down the current metagame. That being said, it doesn't look too likely they'll hit Torrential, since that's a solid anti-spam trap card, like force, but I wouldn't rule it out. With regards to Atlanteans, two other cards that might get hit that I forgot to mention are Deep Sea Diva, since it can search and summon the monsters that can help synchro Gungnir with ease, or Mermail Abyssmegalo, whose effects are quite abusive with Atlanteans. As I mentioned, it's fair Gungnir says once per turn (while Brio doesn't), and you can't discard more than 2 cards, but discarding marksman and heavy infantry to get rid of 4 cards at once is something I just can't get used to. They need to either ban Gungnir or limit marksman/infantry. One other card that might get brought back after being banned for many years is Sinister Serpent. It's not that broken in today's meta IMO. (my IP changed, but I'm the same guy). 24.12.202.163 (talk) 17:36, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Updated my list (same as the first IP above), I think this seems about right. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 20:41, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

One last update to my list...This is probrably my final call. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 19:12, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

My thoughts

Banned:

● Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal - I've seen a friend of mine with my own eyes contruct a deck in such a way that he is able to summon this card consistently (mainly using Lightray Madoor and Chaos Sorcerer). With the addition of Reaper of Prophecy this lass may go out of control, and given how unbelievably powerful her effect is she may just become too much for the crowd to handle.

Limited

● Garbage Lord - we've all seen that people aren't really atached to their LP if it means they can get an edge (I'm looking at you, Solemn Judgement). And being able to consistently bring out Adreus and Hearth-Earth? Not to mention no restriction on using it for Synchro? AND a support card to search it? It might just turn out to be the next card everyone will spam, as was the case with Gorz when he splashed onto the scene.

● Aster Drawn - Spellcaster decks have a slew of tools that let them Special Summon low-level monsters easily, so this card could start a craze of explotaition of its draw capacity.

● Lightning Plover - fairly easy to Summon, but has an effect that's devastating to any Special-Summon oriented Deck - Fusion, Ritual, Synchro, Xyz etc. . It's essentially the next Brionac, AND it deals with a face-down for free to boot. Giving WIND decks more than one copy could result in too great of an advantage.

● Xyz Tribal - one could argue that the requirement to maintain both Xyz materials is a stringent one, but one must also keep in mind that there are effectless Xyz monsters and they have support cards. If this card stays unlimited, an agonizing meta-deck revolving around them will dominate the scene. I can see it now... Tribal Rabbit-Pearl! (read: I agree that Rescue Rabbit is likely to be limited)

--78.60.146.207 (talk) 20:35, November 11, 2012 (UTC)

Garbage Lord I could see, but the cost is really high, maybe at 2, but not 1. Lightning Plover is so not the next Brionac, it's more fair than Brionac, but at 1900, it's probably going to get run over by a Rank 4 Xyz. Xyz Tribal, it seems cool, but it's not like it's impossible to play around. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:54, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Xyz Tribal makes Evolzar Laggia , Evolzar Dolkka and Evilswarm Ophion very difficult to destroy.

[email protected] (talk • contribs) 14:49, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

I haven't actually seen anybody use Garbage Lord yet, does it already have a Tier-1 potential deck? I can't see Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal being hit personally, she's powerful but somewhat tricky to get out. On that note, I can't honestly think of any ban-worthy cards this format as of yet, except maybe (with improbability IMHO) BLS - EotB and/or one of the Big Three Limited spells. I agree that Plover is pretty hax, but I also agree that it won't be banned immediately, even if it makes a big splash. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 23:34, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

In terms of Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal, I also can't see her being it. Being Rank 6, she's not as easily made as other Xyz monsters, even if you argue that Prophecy can take advantage of her, there probably not going to run more than 1 and they'll be using stronger monsters like Reaper and Prophecy Destroyer to make her, all to take 1 monster from you and lose 1 card in their hand. Magi might seem broken, but she's technically a fairer version of Mind Control and Monster Reborn. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:31, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

As for Garbage Lord, it's not very useful as there is only one major Dark Rank 5 Xyz monster, which would be Adreus, Keeper of Armageddon or Number 53: Fake-Body God, Heart-eartH, and only Adreus is the better of the 2, as it's easier to summon. However, I think the real value of Lord will be with Synchro decks, he doesn't share the restriction of not being used for a Synchro Summon, like Gagaga Magician does, maybe we'll see him in a crazy new version of Tele-Dad, I mean the search card plus a Dark Tuner and this guy put exactly 3 Darks into your grave, but then again, DAD isn't searchable without Eclipse Wyvern, but the Synchro thing is really what is drawing me toward him. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:37, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, surprising as it is, Garbage Lord is far more exploitable in Synchro than in Xyz. The other thing is that, apart from when you're very low on LP, it can never be a Dead Draw. It does not have any restrictions like Cyber Dragon and the like on when it can Special Summoned. --Eps01 (talk • contribs) 09:32, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

True, but I think it's more likely to see a semi-limit on it than anything else, it basically mean you get to summon a Synchro Monster for the loss of 2 monsters and 25% of your total LP. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:11, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Also, its searcher buddy Garbage Ogre is a TGU target; that could come in handy. On another subject, I don't think Aster Drawn will be hit at all. I feel as if the decks that could use it to good effect just plain don't need to, e.g., Wind-Ups. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 23:17, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not confident enough to make a solid prediction yet, though last format's predictions I made were really damn close. Nonetheless, I am confident to say I don't see many of the above changes. The OCG cards are powerful, but unless they're dominating tournaments (which I do not know the status of, they're not going anywhere.) Rabbit will stay at 2, Torrential and such removal cards will stay around where they are, and BLS isn't going anywhere. Konami clearly wants a more aggressive, more skill-oriented format. And yes, keeping BLS means players have to be skilled enough to combat a card that powerful. I do see Atlantean/Mermails being hit. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 00:34, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'm still not absolutely sure about what Mermail/Atlantean cards will get hit, but I'm still leaning towards hitting Marksman and Infantry. Not only are their effects absolutely ridiculous, but they generate a ton of broken pluses. Abyssmegalo could also be hit, if one could view him as the main source for discarding them and using their effects, but if he goes to 1, Marksman and Infantry will likely stay where they are, or go to 2 and not 1. Limiting Abyssmegalo, Marksman, and Infantry is just overkill. Dragoons is also potentially a contender, since he's a card that sets up your hand and instantly makes discarding a +0 in the deck. I'm still confident Sinister Serpent will come back next March; even in Merlanteans, he's not as broken or discard-worthy as Marksman, Infantry, or Dragoons are, and he's probrably not going to break any other meta decks if he comes back, like Tsukuyomi hasn't since it came back last September. Abysslinde ain't goin' nowhere; she's too balanced to be hit. She would be worthy of a hit if she didn't have a once per turn restriction, but she does. Spellbooks, Madolches, Worms and Chromallys probrably won't get hit because they're too weak. Firedances I could see getting hit, but they're relatively easy to counter. Konami also might knock down Sams again; I'm actually surprised they boosted the deck by giving them an extra Smoke Signal after they topped (still topping) at YCS. 24.12.202.163 (talk) 18:33, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

At this time I think it's to early to be making this list, as we've got two more booster sets to go before the list hits. That said for some of the older cards I can see a few things happening.

BLS - This guy is here to stay.They knocked down Chaos Sorcerer to one to combat his return, so far it's working.

TGU, Wind-Up Shark & Rescue Rabbit - With both TGU and Shark being in the OCG now we could see another hit to any of these cards as the OCG meta has been changed quite a bit by their release.

Salvage - If any water card will be hit it will be this one, at three it's way to over powered. This will be semi-ed or limited there is no question.

Those are my current predictions but as I said it's way to early to be making these predictions. Though as it stands, we are currently in the most balanced meta format for Yugioh in years with more than 10 decks currently holding onto top tier status. Which means the ban is nigh on perfect right now. I'm not saying that it will always be like this, come Cosmo Blazer or Road of the Tachyongalaxy we could get some broken TCG exclusive or an Archetype as broken as Inzektors in Road of the Tachyongalaxy. We don't know, so again this list is far far far to early. Come back in February, then we'll know.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 19:25, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I forgot Salvage! Yeah, definitely worth considering since it can let you reuse Marksman, Infantry, Diva, Linde, and Attack Squad with no cost to activate it. TGU is fair at 2 IMO; it doesn't need to go to 1. Rabbit to 1, agreed, but Shark seems unlikely; Wind-ups lost 2 Carrier Zenmaighty's last September, so the hand loop is gone and Wind-ups lost a lot of their spamming power by losing 2 Carriers. They're definitely playable and good as they are right now, but if they lose a couple Sharks/Magicians/Rats, they'll be pretty much dead. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 21:18, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, Reborn has no cost and is one of the biggest sack cards in the game atm, but it's most likely not going to get banned well, because for one, its Konami we're dealing with here. Also, it's been limited for quite some time now (5 formats I think) and the card is still the same now as it was before. So why would Konami even consider banning it considering it hasn't really changed all that much, if ever? As for BLS, well that's slightly more likely, but it's not winning YCS's or world championships by itself so it probably will remain at 1. Trag at 2 is fine, to stop those OTK's. Miracle Fusion to 2 would probably be enough if you wanted to hit Heroes, and Dragoons would be better to hit since it can search for any Sea-serpent. Sinister should be an obvious choice, but I feel like Konami has probably forgotten about it by now. Spore should be an obvious choice. Yes, Rabbits can still use Sarc, an Leviair, but that doesn't come close to making up for the loss of consistency. Interesting how there's no Wind-Up card there (or maybe it's not), and Madolches don't really need to be hit yet.SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 19:25, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oh well my list is this:

Forbidden:

● Monster Reborn ● Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning

Limited:

● Genex Undine ● Mermail Abysslinde ● Abyss-sphere ● Skill Drain ● Evilswarm Ouroboros ● Lightpulsar Dragon ● Magi Magi ☆ Magician Gal ● Tragoedia

Semi-Limited:

● Honest ● Judgment Dragon ● Maxx C ● Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier

Unlimited:

No one

189.134.177.74 (talk) 23:49, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

As I mentioned below, there's always someone who wants BLS and/or Reborn re-banned. I don't blame whoever wants those cards gone; they're game-winners by themselves. I agree to either, or both, of them, but it depends... I disagree about your predictions on Mermail-Atlanteans. I highly doubt Abysslinde is going to 1 because it's only a recruiter (with a once per turn restriction). Recruiters never get hit. The problem with the deck isn't linde or sphere it's Dragoons. Undine to 2 is possible, but I don't think it will go to 1. As I mentioned below, Chaos Dragons were practically murdered last banlist by losing Future Fusion and 2 REDMD. Lightpulsar to 1 is taking away all the deck has left to offer. Highly doubt it's gonna happen. Ouroboros and Magi Magi magician gal are pretty difficult to summon and Konami isn't going to hit unnecesary cards that are hard to drop in the first place. Skill Drain to 1, why? Skill Drain is an Anti-Meta card. Anti-Meta cards need to be at 3 to keep the meta slower. Limiting Skill Drain is taking away my main side deck answer to most of today's meta decks. Other than that, I don't see JD getting hit (unless Lumina goes to 3) and no way in hell Honest is going to 2. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:12, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

March 2013 banlist predictions and reasons

Banlist predictions and reasons

Banned:

Black Luster Soilder EOTB- this card it way too overpowered. It steals games by itself. I don't think this will happen though, mostly because konami likes having game stealing cards. MOnster Reborn- Same as BLS. Genex Undine- this allows for atlantian to have way too much advantage first turn. Mind control- it's a lot like change of heart because of Xyzs and Synchros

Limited:

Wind-Up Factory- allows the deck to have way too much search power. Wind-Up Magician- allow to many insane combos. The example is shark magician Atlantean Dragoons- allows the deck to be way too consistent. Rescue Rabbit- the deck was hit, remained good so this needs to go to 1. Mystical Space Typhoon- I feel that I can't set anything without fearing it to be blown up. It creates a situation that konami doesn't want. Sinister Serpent- it may help unplayed cards possibly playable. Lightpulsar Dragon- Chaos Dragons are still amazing just not as good as they used too. I could see this happening.

Semi-limited:

Black whirlwind- blackwing a haven't done anything. Help out their consistency. T.G. Striker- I do not know why konami hit this card. The T.G. Stun deck is somewhat inconsistent, and T.G Agents are not even on the same tier as their Alistar Alban varient or Simon He varient. Lonefire Blossom- Plants aren't doing anything Mezuki- Zombies aren't doing anything. Snoww- Dark World is a good deck but it hasn't done much. I think that this would be appropriate. Gates of Dark World- see snoww. Gladiator Beast Bestiari- the deck needs someting, although I don't think that this would do a whole lot. Book of Moon- it's a good card, but I think people would play just 1

Unlimited:

Reborn Tengu- I was testing plants with 3 of these guy and glowup and it wasn't amazing. This unlike Mali doesn't create mad plusses Magical Stone excavation- Bad. -2.

That's my list please comment!

P.s. this is my first article!

Mind Control might get banned, but it's fair in the fact that you can't attack or tribute the monster controlled, which was the broken part about Brain Control and COH. Rabbit will probrably go to 1 because it's consistent in several ways. It's not only abused in Dino decks, but it's also consistent in Dragons (2 lv 4 dragons>Queen Dragon Djin), Warriors (2 lv 4 warriors>Blade Armor Ninja or Heroic Champion Excalibur), Machines (2 lv 4 machines>Gear Gigant X) and Evilswarms (2 Evilswarm Heliotropes>Evilswarm Ophion, Bahamut, Nightmare, or Thantos), not to mention there's gold sarc, Leviair (summoned by Tour Guide), and a Sangan to search it with ease. Mystical Space Typhoon won't go to 1; if it does, people will run MASSIVE trap lineups in their backrow. MST was brought up to 3 a while back to solve that problem. That's also why Storm and Hole won't get banned, Hole of which to solve massive first turn monster spamming. Magical Stone Excavation, probrably. No one runs that card, some low tier decks might run 2, but no one would run 3. Dark Worlds aren't the best deck around, and with Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror and Macro Cosmos, they're pretty easy to counter, so I think they'll keep Snoww, Grapha, and Gates at 3. Lonefire might stay at 1 since Spore came back, but I would bring it up to 2 only if Spore gets re-banned, which I don't see happening. Book of Moon to 2 seems possible, but it would generate advantages not only by rendering your opponent's monsters harmless, but Morphing Jar and Ryko might be splashed more often, while other cards like Torrential and Mirror Force exist solely to punish your opponent. Mezuki, T.G. Striker, Gladiator Beast Bestiari, and Black Whirlwind are the key cards of their respective decks, and if they go up, those decks will become pretty good again, maybe too good for the meta. Hornet, Dragonfly, and Carrier Zenmaighty were all brought down to 1 to solve the problem with their respective decks last format, though wind-ups are still pretty broken, and I would probrably semi-limit Shark and Magician next format to keep wind-ups at a fair pace. If you wanted to hit Mermail Atlanteans, I'd just limit Dragoons; Undine doesn't need a hit. Lightpulsar to 1, are you kidding me. Chaos Dragons lost Future Fusion and two Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragons last September, how many more hits do they need? 98.206.70.2 (talk) 18:43, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

I've seen light pulsar splashed into other decks like heriatics. The semi limits are simply to give older decks a chance in the current format. MST is broke at 3 because again I can't set anything.

But if you increase the number of MST, people tend to run more traps, heck look at Dino-Rabbit, even with Heavy and 3 MST, the deck runs a decent trap line-up, at least 8-10 traps. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 02:59, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

As to what things are being said, like Pulsar to 1 and stuff, I doubt Pulsar and Chaos Dragons are going to be touched. We've seen Chaos Dragons do well, but not take tournaments in very quick fashion. ----Dark Ace SP (Talk) 03:03, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

And if MST goes to 1, then people will still run 8-10 traps in those decks, except with one MST there won't be an easy answer to them. Night Beam could be a replacement, but if you're up against Skill Drain or Macro, you'll have a hard time around it with only one MST. You could semi-limit Bestiari, Whirlwind, or Mezuki, but I don't know if that will make those "old decks" too good or not. Maybe running 2 Bestiari's, Whirlwinds, or Mezukis would make those decks too powerful. Konami could semi them to give them a chance, but if they get out of hand, they might knock them down again. Running 2 Bestiari's in Glad Beasts would kill your opponent's backrow like crazy and Gyzarus would be a common problem too. Konami did bring Kalut back to 2 last format, so they could be trying to promote old decks to give them a chance at YCS and such, but at 2 some of those old cards might become too good. One thing's for sure - they won't be reckless and they'll play it safe at bringing some of the old decks back. They might semi some of those cards, but I wouldn't do all of them at once. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 17:31, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

People are running high trap counts because Inzektors are done MST was brought back to three to combat oppression which is now banned and most of the decks I helped haven't done crap for a while.

Inzektors aren't dead, they just lots a lot of consistency last format by losing 2 Dragonfly's and 2 Hornet's. They're still more than capable of otk'ing people, but it's harder now that you can only run one Hornet and Dragonfly. Opression is never coming back because whoever special summons first, special summons last when that card is at 1. There are lots of decks that run a ton of search cards and tons of traps today, so MST needs to be at 3 to stop the traps. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 21:17, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I have noticed there is no response to me banning sinister serpent.

You have 3 night beam 3 dust tornado and 3 lance. I don't think mst at one will hurt anything

The fact is MST is faster and better than all 3 of those, MST has the advantage of killing face-up cards as well as face-down cards, and Dust Tornado is slower, it can't do anything the turn it's drawn, and Lance is not an MST is protects against some cards, but the -800 is usually enough to allow your opponent to run over the monster you were trying to protect. Those 3 are just weaker and inferior subs, they don't cut it, Konami learned this a few formats back in the Formats when GK and other such decks were winning many YCS, people just hid behind large 3-5 card backrows, and Giant Trunade and 1-2 MST didn't cut it, and Dust Tornado and other spell/trap removal cards were out then too. It didn't work.

As for Sin Serpent, we can debate on it, but it won't do a lot to help. I mean your running 1 inconsistent card to help run 3 Lightning Vortex or Divine Wrath, which are kinda painful to use without Sinister. ----Dark Ace SP (Talk) 03:44, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

In the format I wish to create is a slow format. You can wait to set cards.

This is a SLOW format, a format isn't defined by the number of traps you can set, but by what decks can win in the format, and in this format, we have a bunch of decks winning. I could see MST go back to 2, but it will never go back to 1, the future of the game has changed, and there are just too many traps out there to make a case for MST at 1, I think Konami learned this a while back. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:53, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Running 3 Divine Wrath's and 3 Lightning Vortex's with only one copy of Sinister Serpent (assuming it only goes to 1, not 2 or 3, which would then make it game-breaking) is just poor deck designing. Serpent doesn't immediately return to your hand when discarded; it only returns during your standby phase, and that basically means you can only activate one Vortex or Wrath per turn without a cost, which is rather slow if you ask me. I might run one or two Divine Wrath's or Lightning Vortex's if Serpent comes back, but 3 is way too excessive. And aside from discard fodder for a few cards (which usually aren't game-breaking in of themselves) there's not much else the little Snake can do to help you. If there's any card Konami should bring off the "banned" list next March, Sinister Serpent would be the best choice. It is, without a doubt, the least broken of all the currently banned cards, and like Tsukuyomi, could be a good way to slow down the format even further if it is unbanned. And yeah Ace, MST will never go to 1 again; there are too many decks that like to hide behind traps today. Many decks I've faced do nothing but summon a t-king and set 4 backrows and then wait. If MST was at 1, I'd have a hard time overcoming their massive trap lineup, not to mention I don't always draw Storm on my first turn, not that my opponent always sets Starlight Road either, but still. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 17:37, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Has any one ever considered banning shock master. I mean really its like a walking cold wave!

Not at all. Cold Wave is MUCH worse than Shock Master, not only in the fact that you can't activate spells or traps, but you can't even set them from your hand, so it can shut your opponent down for a very long time, and in some decks, they might be completely crippled. Also, shock master requires 3 level 4 monsters, which makes it pretty hard to summon. Cold Wave is simply activating a spell card, making it much more effective than shock master ever will be. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:42, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

All on all, do you guys think under my list, we would have a good format.

Some part I can see, but others I can't. But I don't think it would really work out. Also, this thread is possible hits, we're really not trying to define a format, but yet we kinda are, get it? --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 23:45, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

MST is broke at 3 because again I can't set anything. - Then I sit back and laugh at you sir. 3 MST is critical to Yugioh because it puts that fear of them into you to make you play more strategically, rather than just setting your back row and sitting there all smug. Plus for the argument of 'they make it harder for lesser played decks', actually they make it easier. Because they then have more chances to counter a move, or a card. So yeah lets not have this discussion again. MST NEEDS TO BE AT THREE!

I wasn't actually going to post anything but this next bit but I thought that the MST thing needed to be cleared up... To whoever said that Scapegoat needed to go to two to slow down the meta...yeah anyone read my comments up top about needing to see all the cards released by February, before making this list. Well yeah we got Phantom Beast Planes in Lord of the Tachyon Galaxy meaning Scapegoat just became a meta card, so no it won't be coming down from one. Hell depending on how well they do Scapegoat could even be banned on the next list.--The FireFALL (talk • contribs) 23:01, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think Scapegoat wouldn't be harmful at 2 for the sole reason you can't normal, flip, or special summon another monster the turn you use it, in other words, you can only activate one per turn, not to mention the tokens can't be used for tribute summons. Of course, the predictions I made at the start of this page when I made it were only made based on the current metagame status. Things could always change, and with the soon release of some new meta decks, some of the cards I suggested semi-limiting above might stay where they are, or could even get banned instead, as you suggested Firefall. It's a bit too soon to tell, but there are some things I can certainly conclude from the current metagame status. Spore is definitely going to 3, or getting re-banned. Mermail-Atlanteans will definitely be hit in some way, shape, or form, but I'm not sure exactly how Konami will handle them. There's always going to be someone who wants BLS or Monster Reborn banned. Those 2 cards aren't required to keep the meta slower, like Hole, Storm, and MST at 3 are; they're just broken, game-winning cards in of themselves. Other than those changes, the only other staple change I can see coming next March is Sinister Serpent to 1. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 03:46, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

My Predictions #1

FORBIDDEN

• Elemental HERO Stratos - I think this is nuff said. Konami never really kills a deck, unless it is super broken. Hero Decks will surely slow down if this would be ban.
• Sangan - Well, either this card, or limit TGU to 1.
• Monster Reborn - I really hate the logic of a free revival of a monster from either player's graveyard.

LIMITED

• Tour Guide From the Underworld - Again, either this card, or ban Sangan.
• Rescue Rabbit - Still broken, but not as broken as Rescue Cat
• Mystical Space Typhoon - just a feeling..
• Wind-Up Factory or Wind-Up Shark - Either of the two. Deck is too fast, but not that broken.
• Atlantean Dragoons - Nuff said. Engine is engine.

SEMI-LIMITED

• Gladiator Beast Bestiari - Not as scary as it was before.

UNLIMITED (None for now)

Well, this is my predictions for now. Feel free to comment. :)

Jampong (talk • contribs) 14:22, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

As mentioned above, MST needs to be at 3 to discourage people from swarming their backrow with tons of trap cards. Aside from MST, the only other staple S/T removal card is Heavy Storm. TGU and Sangan are just fine where they are IMO, as is Bestiari (glad beasts would be really powerful if they had 2 Bestiari's; they could even go straight to tier 1). If you wanted to hit heroes, I would semi-limit Miracle Fusion instead of ban Stratos. Other than that, this list seems pretty reasonable to me. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 18:04, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Even without MST we have ridiculous quantities of S/T destruction, though most of it is inferior. What if they limit MST to push Night Beam, for instance? 108.196.206.15 (talk) 21:05, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

MST is the only everyday spashable, fast, and easy way to kill off backrows in today's meta. There are other answers, but those answers are usually weaker and inferior to MST. As Dark Ace mentioned above, Night Beam, Forbidden Lance, and Dust Tornado, ect are only weaker and inferior substitutes for MST, and they just don't cut the bill. I run 3 MST's in almost all of my decks because it forces my opponent to put more thought into how they place their backrow, or how much of it to place. That's why it can't go to 1, because it's the easiest staple around backrows. Konami learned what the concequences of 1 MST were a while back, and they don't intend on facing those concequences again. People will just run massive trap lineups if MST goes to 1 because there won't be an easy answer to those trap lineups. Storm is the only other staple answer to massive backrows atm, but even it can be roaded or THRIO'd. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 01:59, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

[What if they limit MST to push Night Beam, for instance?]

Orly? I would run Dust Tornado before I EVER add Night Beam to my deck. The reasons most people use MST are

1) It does not have to be set unless you want to, but can still be set for next turn (As in your opponents). 2) Can hit FD, or FU cards. 3) Can be activated in response to something (Most likely something that can destroy it, IE; another MST, or a continuous so that it resolves without effect).

Dust tornado covers 2 of those, and Night Beam covers none of those. I have said it before, but the only thing Night Beam really does better than MST (or Dust Tornado for that matter) is kill MSTs.

As for my predictions. I happen to like MST at 3, heavy/dark hole at 1, and monster reborn is annoying, but easily stopped what with 2 Warnings, and a Judgment. I personally feel "MOST" Extra deck cards that are banned could be limited, and we can just up warning to 3, but that is my opinion feel free to ignore it. (I know you already have so shush).

I would not mind Tour Guide back at 3, Reborn and rabbit are fine at 2 not that they bother me too much anyway.

Atlanteans however are my blind spot. I have yet to face them so I don't know how well they work, but just from what I have read about them it seems to me they will need to be hit. From what I have noticed this year Konami doesn't understand the idea of "balanced environment". When each time you release a new archetype and people near instantaneously break it you have some issues to resolve.

Kordeleski (talk • contribs) 03:15, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Well, with the Tour Guide thing, it doesn't make sense anymore, Tour Guide's main job is to search out Sangan, which is already limited, and 3 TG make it easier to draw into and easier to get to a Limited card, which truthfully isn't really limited as Tour Guide makes it a quick and easy find, so that's why Tour will probably stay at 2, plus the 2 Tour Guide definitely was 1 half of the hits that made Dino-Rabbit a little less threatening. Also in response to the "balanced environment" comment, I think Konami does understand what a "balanced environment" is, but let's face it, Mermails and Atlanteans are probably one of the best things to happen to WATER decks in years, even after all the hits are said and done, I think that a solid WATER attribute deck will still be in some form viable, but in a another form, much like how Inzektors are still fairly a solid deck, even with Hornet and Dragonfly limited. --Dark Ace SP (Talk) 04:50, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, I think Konami did a good job last banlist, they made the right move on the decks they hit. They did an awful job in March, just outright killing plants while leaving rabbits, wind-ups, inzektors and chaos dragons untouched, but in September, the meta got really balanced. I realy like the format we're in right now, it forces me and others to put thought and skill into our decks so we can make them viable without any game-breaking cards. Even without Future Fusion and 3 REDMD, my chaos dragons can still otk and can still make gustav max with galaxy queen's light on REDMD or Trag. It takes a lot of thought and skill to make a deck like that, and I think Konami wants everyone to build their decks with skill so it's harder to break the game. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 05:04, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I am not saying TG needs to be at 2. Just that I would be fine with it. The decks that get to me most (Atlanteans excluded) would be Inzektors, and Chaos Dragons. Even with Hornet limited it does not change much for me as they can get it into the graveyard easily, and doing so give most of their monster the effect Once per turn: Destroy something on the field...

Another thing is that even with dragon fly limited his effect (to me at least) seems reminiscent to Substitoad. Sure it's effect is far weaker, but combos with other cards on another level (The most obvious, as well as common, being the above mentioned hornet).

Chaos dragons abuse a loop (The problem I had with pre-September wind ups who literally sucked the fun out of the game through a straw) where I either have a way to banish cards or deal with the same monsters over and over. Grepha is another problem I have, but at least when I kill him he is gone for a turn, and not gonna bring anyone else out.

Chaos Dragons got beat pretty badly what with the loss of Future Fusion, AND 2 REDMD, but like with Hornet it really only takes one to annoy the crap out of you.

Kordeleski (talk • contribs) 05:38, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I doubt Konami is going to touch inzektors again, because while dragonfly can swarm the field and hornet can easily be dumped if it's at 1, you can't compare Dragonfly to Substitoad or Mind Master, ect. Substitoad and Mind Master are just stupid, badly designed cards that can mill your entire deck in one turn, with no once per turn restriction. Dragonfly is fair in the fact that you can only equip Hornet to him once per turn. Yes you can equip him with other cards like Giga Mantis, Giga Weevil, and Inzektor Sword Zektkalibur, but imagine if Dragonfly could equip hornet as many times as you wanted to per turn. If that could happen, he'd be banned by now. If Dragonfly didn't have a once per turn restriction on his first effect, he would swarm your field and make lethal otk's faster than you'd think. Konami didn't kill any decks last September; they just wanted to hurt the consistency of these decks by limiting/banning cards that needed it. Even so, I highly doubt Konami is going to touch Dark Worlds because everyone's side decks hate them today (Macro, Shadow-imprisoning, Soul Drain, D-Fissure, ect). You're right, it only takes one Hornet/REDMD to loop in certain decks like Inzektors or Chaos Dragons, but it's better than having it at 3, which brings a lot of extra consistency. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 13:37, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I feel that wind up magician should be banned or at least limited wind ups have bad their time and for those who argue against me think about it remember the windup hand destruction? Now we have shark OTK they're too broken

IMO Konami should have just limited Wind-Up Rat last September instead of limited Carrier Zenmaighty. Limiting Rat would not only stop the hand loop but it would also slow down the shark-magician combo first turn. Limiting Carrier didn't kill wind-ups it just changed their focus to XYZ (rank 5) spam cards. I do think Wind-ups will get hit again, but I don't exactly know how. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 14:19, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

March 2013 Banlist

We are now halfway through the September 2012 format, and I'm starting to think about the banlist for the next format... My (ideal) list isn't complete, but this is what I have.

Banned:

•Monster Reborn (It's way too good. It basically ruins the game mechanics.)

•Gateway of the Six Samurai (Opening with this basically says, "Hey, I've got Game 1. Let's go into Game 2, shall we?")

•Wind-Up Zenmaines (Either this, or make it limited. I know that most people run 1 anyway, but Inzektor players like summoning this A LOT)

• And yes, I don't think BLS should go.

Limited:

•Premature Burial (If Reborn is hit, I think this may have a chance of returning.)

•Genex Undine (This card gives so much flexablilty towards Atlanteans, it's not even fair! If you open with this first turn, it nets you a plus two. Opening with this turn 2 let's you pop any card on the field, and sets up yourGraveyard for Moulinglacia.)

•Lightpulsar Dragon (Although Chaos Dragons were hit, Lightpulsar still allows so much flexibility towards the deck)

•Wind-Up Shark (This card is too derpy. Either this, or Wind-up Rat AND Magician.)

Semi-Limited:

•Inzektor Dragonfly (It seems fair to bring it back.)

•Snoww, Unlight of Dark World (Every Good Deck has a limited or semi-limited search card, so Dark Worlds should be hit, unless it's a bad deck :p)

•Mermail Abyyslinde. Nuff said.

•Chaos Sorcerer (Chaos Sorcerer isn't THAT broken. Why was it even Limited in the first place?!)

•Left Arm of the Forbidden One." (Just for LOLs, I want to play Rabbit Exodia with Birdman.)

No longer on list.

•Reborn Tengu (With FireKings and more Beast-Warrior support, I believe that Tengu may come back. Besides, I want plants to come back.)

•Spore (Really, Konami, limiting this card is pointless.)

•Glow-Up Bulb (Plants were punished too much. They should come back.)

I'm not sure if reborn for Premature is a fair trade. Premature, unlike reborn, is an equip spell and is spammable through cards like Dewloren, Tiger King of the Ice Barrier and falcon of mist valley. You also have 3 hidden armory's to search and/or reuse it. The fact fire kings and fire fists were released is all the better reason to keep tengu at 2, since giving you 3 would lead to crazy synchro/xyz summoning. Banning Gateway is killing Six Sams, which are possible to play around even with Gateway at 1. Same goes with DW's, which are easy to side against in games 2 and 3. GUB is highly debatable; it's a free, non-cost tuner that you can revive whenever you want, but it can only work once a duel. I personally don't see Zenmaines getting hit; it's relatively easy to get off the field with compulsory and d-prison, as well as Solemn Warning. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 07:04, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Lightpulsar to 1 kills the deck. Seriously, Chaos Dragons don't need to be hit more than they have already. Shark is a possibility, but Magician is probably a bigger one. Wind-Up Factory should be hit too since if Black Whirlwind is gonna be at 1, Factory should be at 1 too since it can be triggered during either players turn and can search out anything, unlike whirlwind which is only on Normal summons and only with less ATK than the summoned monster. Dragonfly is going to remain at 1 probably, if anything Hornet would go to 2 since its not as much of a problem as Dragonfly is. Reborn has been the exact same card and has done the exact same thing(s) for the past 5 formats or so, so there is no reason for Konami to ban this card if it hasn't improved. I Like that you say that BLS shouldn't go since its not the only card that win games single-handedly. Left arm to 2 would be rather funny although it's probably not going to happen. Tengu is going to remaining at 2 with its "play it and im good for the next 2-3 turns" mentality. Spore should be an obvious choice...although its probably not so obvious to Konami. as For Glow-Up Bulb, its far too splashable. 142.22.16.53 (talk) 18:34, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Prrsonally I didn't care about Glow-up Bulb in the first place. Bulb wasn't the biggest problem at hand, sure it can revive itself once, but ONLY once...in an entire duel. That's just not convenient enough for it to be banned...it just isn't. Yeah it's a neat way to get a monster on your field, but synchro decks as a whole have significantly dwindled in popularity now that Brionac, Trishula, and Future Fusion (well, for chaos dragons/Chimeratech/Worm Zero moreso than FTQuasar) are banned now. They're still playable, but not game-breaking anymore, and even if Bulb does come back, with the aforementioned cards now banned, it wouldn't be as powerful as earlier. Also, with regards to the "splashable" comment on Glow-up Bulb, it's not a staple in any non-synchro deck. I sometimes used it in frognarchs as fodder for Caius or Creature Swap, but I find Treeborn Frog and Ronintoadin better than Bulb in both cases, since they can come back more than once and have other options avaliable too. Monster Reborn is a game-winning card in of itself and like Pot of Greed when it was around, everyone uses Reborn. It's a staple, but not everyone (myself included) believe it's a necessary staple, like Dark Hole and Heavy Storm. That's why it has a chance to get banned. There are plenty of "fair" substitutes for Reborn, like there are for Pot of Greed. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 21:16, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Re: March 2013 Banlist

We are now halfway BLS should go.

Single card restricting

In my opinion, this is what single card I think should be in the Forbidden/Limited Card list (or restricted) for March 2013. Rated by abbreviations.

• "Judgment Dragon" to L. Reason: Even though it is my favorite card, it should be Limited because it is too easy to summon if you have a "Lightsworn" deck. Also, you need four different "Lightsworn" Monsters monsters for it to be summoned from your hand without tributing, and no monsters are banished from play in the process. Also, you must pay 1000LP to nuke all other cards on the field. Sure you lose LP for doing that but since Chaos Numbers came out, doing that is easier to activate their special abilities. If you are wondering how you can summon a Number C, use "Monster Reborn" to bring out a Level 4 monster, then normal summon another Level 4. After that, overlay them to Xyz Summon Number 39: Utopia. Then use Utopia for a Chaos Xyz Evolution and Summon Number C39: Utopia Ray. Then detach all Xyz Materials from Utopia Ray for it to gain 500 each (if possible). That can easily kill your opponent.

Alert me if I'm wrong about any of the above.--Power32840 (talk • contribs) 20:10, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

Judgment Dragon definitely has a chance to go on the banlist again, but it's not on the list any longer for a few reasons. If you see the Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited, the removal of ignition priority, the increase of anti-special summon cards for chaos monsters, and Lightsworns not taking nationals/YCS by storm anymore is why Judgment Dragon is no longer on the banlist. It's basically the key card of Lightsworns, and hitting it hurts the deck a whole lot when the deck isn't even topping anyways. Some say Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner, which is currently at 2, should go to unlimited while Judgment Dragon goes to 2 or 1. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 22:32, January 9, 2013 (UTC)

my march 2013 prediction

my march 2013 banlist prediction

banned

Monster reborn: staple card that everyone plays that is just too good it sets up wins far to easily and changes the tide of the game

Black luster solder envoy of the beginning : Again card that is way too good as a top deck.

Inzektor dragonfly: having played inzektors i feel they hit the wrong card with this to one but i dont see konami going back and hitting centapede so this has possiblilty of getting hit.

(also i do not think that rabbit or mermails or fire suport will get hit due to the new sets and them wanting to sell product.)

limited premature burial: with reborn gone this card can come back.

one day of peace: way too good of a stall card and think that any card that gives a player that much of a stall needs to be hit.

rekindling: needs to be hit but i am truely doubting it will get hit. but lavavals use this card way too much to get quazar dragon

wind up factory: searchers get hit and its the searcher for wind ups

wind up magician/ shark: one of the two need to get hit to slow them down.

Atlantean dragoon: doubt it will but again most good decks the searchers get hit

rescue rabbit: i dont think it belongs banned. at one i think is balanced

evilswarm bahamut: far to easy to get out and abuseable

snoww, unlight of the darkworld: again good deck searchers get hit

call of the haunted: why the hell is this at 3

semi tsyakyomi: who the hell even plays her? she wasnt worthy of being banned and i dont think she should be limited too the game is too fast for her now

dragged down to the grave: royal tribute is already on the semi limited list so this belongs here too

lonefire blossom: glow up is gone spore is at one let plants have some life give them the blossom

mst: more balanced not as much backrow hate

mermail abysslinde: special summoner but dont think she will get hit to one yet the deck is too new

gladiator beast bestiari: not too threatening now but not to sure on this one.

unlimited

wall of revieling light: you pay life and with mst and heavy in the game it dont pay to pay for this card 05:12, January 10, 2013 (UTC)~~

I don't know about Evilswarm Bahamut, sure it's got a good effect, but it can't really be seen in any deck besides evilswarms and even they are only an anti-meta archetype, easily beaten head-on with other xyz decks such as Wind-ups. Call is fine at 3; most good decks wouldn't opt to run more than 2 Call of the Haunted, due to it's slower speed and limited revival options, as well as strict conditions on usage. Wall of Revealing Light is probrably going to stay at 1 because of Hope for Escape Exodia. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 18:00, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Reborn and BLS have established their positions on the limited status since Reborn has been doing the exact same things the past 5 formats, and if course hasn't been moved since then, so there's no reason to suddenly ban it now. BLS can win games by itself and is a great top-deck but Konami likes game breakers and there are many other great top decks out there that can single-handedly win games, even if they are less splashable, but its not about winning just a few games by top decking those cards. You are only going to go so far in a big tournament just by getting BLS or Reborn at the right time...eventually your luck will run out and/or someone will definitely have an answer to the card. Premature won't come back because it's searchable and recyclable with Hidden Armory and it doesn't destroy the monster if it leaves the field. I do agree with Factory and Magician, also Dark Worlds haven't been putting consistently good showings at tournaments to be hit considering they are really easy to side against, and that Macro Rabbit is one of the top decks this format. Call is at 3 because it is slow, and is easily destroyable by the amount of back row destruction. I do agree with Tsukuyomi for sure and Lonefire to a certain extent. Dragged down is probably going to stay at 3 since Tribute was hit because GK's were winning a lot of YCS's at some point before. MST needs to remain at 3 because it is the answer to most side-decked cards used against a player, and against other things too. Dust Tornado and Night Bean don't cut it because DT can't be chained from the hand and it's slow, while Night Beam is useless when you are up against Skill Drain, Soul Drain, decree or Macro. Bestiari at 2 would likely make GB's tier 1 again, it may questionably make the deck too good again since it gives it way to much back row destruction. For Wall of Revealing Light, same as whatever the guy above said. 142.22.16.52 (talk) 18:51, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, with regards to Bestiari, Glad Beasts technically already have 4 Bestiari's because Gladiator Proving Ground, their version of ROTA, is at 3, so they're fine where they are right now. Aside from that, I doubt One Day is getting hit because it makes lesser played decks more playable, like Countdown and some Exodia variants, and Rekindling is probrably going to stay at 3 since Lavals aren't storming nationals as we speak. Even with 3 copies of Rekindling, it's still not easy to drop Shooting Quasar in a single turn. Tsukuyomi might go up to 3 this March for all I care, but it might create loops if it's at more than 1. It's up to Konami on that one. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 20:38, January 10, 2013 (UTC)

Ban list

Here's my list!

Banned

• Black luster solider -Envoy of the beginning

This card has been around for a bit, and it has "Screwed" With the meta. I personally see this card too often, And because of "LCYW" This card is now More common and I Really like this card, but it need's to go! You can run this card in almost any deck these days, All you need to add is "Tour guide" And "Effect Veiler" And there you have a chaos engine!

• Monster reborn

Is your "Black luster solider -Envoy of the beginning" Just been dark holed? The re-wording on The chaos monsters allow them to be special summoned with "reborn" and it's for free!

• Card destruction

Future fusion for dark world, but beastlier!

Limited

• Wind-up Shark

Makes shock master easy to summon. And plus, Wind-up got better after the ban list.

• Rescue Rabbit

Makes people's deck idea very similar to others.
No creativity!

• Tour Guide

Read Rescue rabbit!

Semi-Limited http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:March_2013_Banlist_Predictions?action=edit&http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:March_2013_Banlist_Predictions?action=edit&section=new#section=new#

• Lonefire Blossom

Plants were hurt at the limiting of this card.http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:March_2013_Banlist_Predictions?action=edit&section=new# And so they lost GUB and now need some more love and care.

• Spore

We only use this card once, too make shooting star, But yet we don't see this card Because of XYZ

• One for one

Who plays Rank one XYZ monster? The game At the moment is based around XYZ. This card would help slow down the format.

Unlimited

• Card trooper

• Royal Tribute

• Magical stone excavation

101.161.11.219 (talk) 07:31, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

If you wanted to boost plants, I would just bring Bulb back altogether. There were some otk's you could do with that card, but those otk's are impossible now that Trishula, Future Fusion, and Brionac are all banned. Synchro decks as a whole are much less powerful now and they would not be tier 1, let alone 2, if they got bulb back. Royal Tribute is fine at 2; GK's would be too good if they were allowed 3 copies. Card Trooper can be searched with Machine Duplication, so I think it's staying at 2 as well. Excavation isn't used that much anymore and it can probrably go to 3 in the upcoming banlist. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 18:45, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Banlist stuff

The march 2013 banlist is underway and I feel that EVERYONE feels the same way about dark world, windups, mermails, and most importantly rescue rabbit. (hint hint, kill those retarded decks)

But I feel that EVERYONE is forgetting a couple of details...

Limited:

Rescue Cat. Okay, maybe this is a bit random, but honestly, when is the last time x Sabres were top tier?(ik that they're good, but still not up there) And really, with rabbit dolkka and all that stuff, I feel that this might just be a reasonable limitation.

Trishula (BRIO is gone. This card should be back.)

Semi:

Night Assailant (really, what's this doing at 1?)

TG Striker (Ik that it's good, but it honestly doesn't belong at 1)

Mezuki (When was the last time zombies were ACTUALLY good?) — This unsigned comment was made by 96.49.239.193 (talk • contribs)

All those cards have a (good) reason to be Forbidden/Limited, check Forum:Reasons why cards are Forbidden/Limited to see why. --Missign0 (talk • contribs) 03:05, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I could be somewhat ok with Trish, T.G. Striker, or even Mezuki going up. However, Rescue Cat will never come back nowadays (crazy loops with Uniflora, Mystical Beast of the Forest) and Night Assailant at 2 leads to crazy hand loops, like infinite field clearing with Snipe Hunter. 108.196.206.15 (talk) 13:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

The meta isn't really that out of control tbh, and I wouldn't expect any significant changes all of a sudden this upcoming banlist. The March banlists are usually more subtle than the September ones since all the decks that come out in March are new and we don't see any big nerfs until September. The only decks I think will really get hit are Wind-ups and Mermail Atlanteans, but even that's not a gurantee since even I've beaten them several times before by siding in the right cards. Rabbits could lose 1 more Rabbit, but that would really hurt their consistency. Dark Worlds aren't getting touched because they're too easy to side against (Macro, d-fissure, Shadow-imprisoning, ect). They're only good game 1, but near useless in games 2 and 3. Mezuki at 2 could lead to lots of crazy summons in Zombie decks, especially with Zombie Master, like 2 Bestiari's in Glad Beasts would lead to way too much backrow destruction. If you wanted to boost Synchros, I would just bring Glow-up Bulb back; Trishula should stay banned. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 15:03, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

To clear something up about BLS and other stuff.

I just want to say that it doesn't matter how much we want Dark Hole/Heavy Storm/Reborn, Shark Rabbit, BLS and Gateway to go, they will all stay where they're at (except for Rabbit, it may go to 1)

What you don't understand is that these cards are all really good in the game, but too good for the game dynamics. But they will probably NEVER leave te game. And the reason for that is that they're all basically moneymakers for Konami. No joke. Even though Reborn/Hole/Storm are relatively cheap, they all basically make money for Konami. So don't get your hopes up. :(

My March 2013 Banlist predictions

FORBIDDEN:

• BLS – Fast to play, Strong and 2 broken effects for choose. But maybe not yet.
• Pot of Avarice – It gives you almost a new hand, not to mention that it can return some useful monsters to the deck. And its like pot of greed, but you must have 5 monsters or more in your grave to play, which it's not so difficult. So it's possible it will get ban.
• Dark Armed Dragon – Similar to BLS and Sorcerer, but you don’t have to banish cards from the grave to summon it and it can also use its eff frequently if you got many dark monsters in the grave, but it's very useful in decks with many dark monsters. However the chances to get ban are very low, since it's great in decks that are out of meta, like Blackwings. So maybe not ban for now.
• Monster Reborn /Dark Hole/Heavy Storm – Very low chance to ban this 3 cards. Im just mentioning them because they are some of the broken cards that everybody mentions in any banlist predition. But to be honest, I think they will never get ban, because they are helpful against meta decks.

LIMITED:

• Rescue Rabbit – It's possible to get limited, since it’s a fast card to make easy XYZ or possible synchro summon. Im not sure if it goes limited yet.
• WU Rat – Very useful and broken for easily summon WU for XYZ (or possible Synchro). Also make a great combo with WU Rabbit.
• Abyss-Sphere - Very powerful in Mermail deck. Makes a great combo with Abysslinde, even if its hit by MST you can chain if possible.

SEMI-LIMITED:

• Advanced Ritual Art – Not so playable anymore, since ritual decks are out of Meta, except Herald of Perfection Deck, but most of those decks won't use this card.
• Wind-up Factory – In my opinion, this card should have been semi-limited since September 2012 banlist, since wind-up remain on the top, even with Carrier at 1.
• WU Magician/Shark – Would be fair at 2, just to slow and low the chances of WU swarming.
• Mermail Abysslinde – Not sure. Many decks just run 2, so I guess there is no reason to run at 2 for now.
• Atlantean Dragoons- Fast search in Atlantean/Mermail deck. Makes a great combo with Genex Undine or Mermail Abyssspike.
• Inzektor Dragonfly – Quite possible to run at 2, since inzektores lost their consistence on September 2012 Banlist.
• Tsukuyomi – A few decks run this card since his returning from Ban cards. It's possible it will run at 2 on this next Banlist.
• T.G. Striker – Makes great combos in TG decks, which are not on the Top. I think its fair to run at 2.
• Chaos Sorcerer – If BLS it's limited, why is this card at 1? It’s a little bit worst then BLS. Even if BLS gets Ban, I think it's fair to put this card at 2 anyway.
• Spore – Lets give a chance to the plant decks. It's not so broken since glow-up is Ban. Its effect can only be used once per duel, so no one runs more than one, except to get more chances to play it...
• Book of Moon – Most of the meta decks don't play this card more often than before, I think...
• Scapegoat – A few meta decks play this card, since it was very useful for Synchro monsters on the past formats.
• Mezuki – It's possible, since zombie decks are not currently meta. Also if Burial D.D. runs at 1, i think it still won't make a dangerous combo for swarming.

UNLIMITED:

• Magical Stone Excavation – This card it's not so dangerous anymore, even in morphing jar or exodia decks.
• Reborn Tengu – It's hard to make this decision, because no one runs this card at 2, but if it goes at 3 it will be very useful, maybe to much. Its like DH Malicious. If this goes unlimited, it's unfair to remain DH Malicious at 2. So it will probably stay at 2.
• DH Malicious – Same as Reborn Tengu.
• Primal Seed – Only if BLS gets ban again.
• Card Trooper – Machine Duplication it’s one of the reason why this card runs at 2. But it's probably not so dangerous nowadays. Maybe it has a chance to run at 3.
• Reasoning – Not so useful nowadays. Maybe it will run at 3.

I think Bls to 0 for Chaos Sorcerer at 2 is a fair trade, and everything else here seems possible, but not all of them. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 14:06, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ban List Predictions

Banned

• Gateway of the Six (Ouroboros Loop along with the shenanigans it does with Samurais which everyone is familiar with, although even then it's questionable since more than Gateway is needed for the loop, and Six Samurais haven't done anything this format, other than win 1 YCS out of nowhere.)

I do think another card or two will get forbidden, but I don't have an idea of what they could be yet, and no I do not think Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning or Monster Reborn will be one of them.

Limited

• Genex Undine (+2)

• Atlantean Dragoons (Generic searcher)

• Wind-Up Magician (Too good with Shark, too easy to get both in hand)

• Wind-Up Factory (Should be at 1 if Black Whirlwind is since it can be triggered during either player’s turn, has no restriction on what you can search and multiple copies of it stack, although if Whirlwind comes back to 2 then this card would be fine at 2)

• Rescue Rabbit (Macro Rabbit is topping, but this is rather questionable since this would probably put the deck off the map immediately)

• Sinister Serpent (Brionac is Banned so there’s no reason for this to be still forbidden)

Semi-Limited

• Black Whirlwind (Gateway is far better than Whirlwind yet they are both at 1? Factory is even better than this card, yet it’s at 3? Seems Legit.)

• Formula Synchron (This wasn’t the problem, Glow-Up Bulb and Fishborg Blaster were)

• Primal Seed (Hasn’t even been played, although if at 2 it could be enough for the Macro Loop.)

• Blackwing – Gale the Whirlwind (There are a lot of cards better than this card that are at 2 or 3, such as Judgment Dragon)

• T.G. Striker (Doesn't need to still be at 1)

• Tsukuyomi (Still isn’t played)

• Monster Gate (Not used a whole lot, and mostly/entirely luck-based although it can combine well with Lavalval Chain)

• Book of Moon (People use Compulsory, Bottomless, Fiendish Chain and Forbidden Lance more than this card)

Unlimited

• Spore (Doesn't change anything)

• Magical Stone Excavation (Doesn’t see play, is a -2 and a bad top-deck late game without cards in hand)

• Summoner Monk (Not used much)

• Pot of Duality (Card is balanced)

SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 00:32, January 15, 2013 (UTC)

Monster Gate would be too good in Hieratics if it was at 2. Sinister Serpent should've been unbanned a long time ago. He should come back. Duality adds a lot of consistency and sets up for big plays. It's fine at 2. I wouldn't boost blackwings so much as to semi both whirlwinds, because they would be able to spam really fast and make otk's with ultimate offering or double summon with black whirlwind. Monk would create too many xyz summons at 3, if it doesn't already at 2. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 13:56, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yes sure Blackwings could OTK that way, but so can Madolches, but those aren't going to get hit so the 2 Whirlwinds at 2 would at least give them a chance to do something. SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 19:59, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Another possible solution could be to unlimit Kalut, but that's almost like semi-limiting honest; it might create otk's as well. Search cards thin your deck, and double whirlwind makes it easier to search your blackwings, and it's got no restrictions like once per turn. Madolches could otk with offering, but ticket is once per turn, while black whirlwind isn't, and wind-up factory, while also once per turn, is only for that copy (unlike ticket), so 3 copies of factory=3 searches per turn, and it can be either players turn (dem wabbits). Sams aren't taking nationals by storm, other than winning one YCS out of nowhere this format, they haven't been taking over the game by storm. They're fine with one gateway and shi-en (and double smoke signal), but banning gateway or shi-en basically kills the deck. When it comes to synchros, I want bulb back since they killed trish and brio. That's a good way to give them a boost since no one uses it outside of synchro decks and it only can revive itself once per duel anyways. IMO it's not ban-worthy since it can only work once per duel. The other two banned tuners (Fishborg and Mind Master) have no restrictions on the number of times they can use their effects, and they create otks/ftks by themselves. Bulb did have some synchro otk's, but the otk's with bulb are impossible without Brio, Trish, and FF, so I see no reason for Bulb to stay banned. T.G. Striker at 2 might be a bit crazy since you can special summon it from your hand (then special summon warwolf) and instantly bring out hyper librarian without even taking up your normal summon. I.E. T.G. Quasar might be an issue with double striker. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 00:08, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Banning Gateway does not kill the deck whatsoever because the deck certainly does not rely on that 1st turn +6 million advantage; its just there because it's an auto-win. Banning Shi-En would kill the deck though, although yes Gateway can remain at 1 since Samurais aren't killing YCS tournaments. Also, Blackwings don't have a Magileine. I use both decks, and even though Ticket is only once per turn, you can re-use the Magileine's by recycling them with Tiaramisu or activating Madolche Chateau, and with Offering you summon even more monsters than if you did the Offering stuff with Blackwings. SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 02:35, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't say gateway to 0 "kills" six sams, but it hurts the consistency of the deck way too much. Smoke Signal to 1 also hurts their consistency quite a bit (Hence why Konami brought it up to 2 last March), and Madolches can recycle their cards with Tiramisu, Magileine, and Chateau for otk's, but even so, it's pretty much impossible to otk in either blackwings or Madolches without offering. With offering at 1, neither deck is taking nationals or YCS like there's no tomorrow, so I dont think either deck will be hit, but bringing Black Whirlwind up to 2 might be all that's needed to make Blackwings a tier 1 deck again, like (as I said above) Bestiari to 2 would for Glad Beasts. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 12:09, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

My thoughts

Banned Sangan:To get Exoida Witch of the Black forest:Same reason as Sangan Monster Reborn: Way too much power Effect allows you to get a oppenets or your monster back with no cost. Bad Idea if Komini didn't ban it. Black Luster Soilder-Evory of the Begining:First thing It's like Choas Eporor Dragon it can win duel by itself. Limiter Removal:That is how you get Cyber Dragon OTKs Limited: CONFISCATION: Why confiscation it only allows you to destroy one monster IMPERIAL ORDER:Why isn't MST (Mistical Space Typoon) Banned? SINISTER SERPENT:It's pretty powerful but not as powerful to get It banned Semi-Limited SCAPEGOAT:why the heck is this limited when anybody can Stop Defense it? That it anyone can add I will add it

74.140.75.91 (talk) 00:19, January 16, 2013 (UTC)Andrew

Sorry about the messyness but I hope you can read it. but i can't find MEGAMORPH on the Ban list so MEGA morph is banned.

Hope you good luck 74.140.75.91 (talk) 00:25, January 16, 2013 (UTC)Andrew

Witch of the black forest is already banned. Confiscation is an annoying hand control card no one likes, and can be comboe'd with cards like mind crush to hurt them very hard on the first turn. If Imperial Order came back, my god traps would be everywhere. Imperial Order+4 other backrows=near perfect lock. You even have the option to lift the spell lock by not paying 700 for possible otk's. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 13:56, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Wait did you say "why isn't MST banned?" That should be obvious. It's to counter the amount of back row that may be used. MST at 1 allowed many players to go wild and set 5 back rows at will, therefore MST at 3 is not going to change. If it was a bad Idea not to ban Reborn, then why was no one saying that 4-5 formats ago, when it was limited at that time too? If no one was saying that it was a bad idea if it wasn't banned, I don't see why it suddenly can transform into a "bad idea" now since it always summoned a monster from either graveyard without a cost. Scapegoat at 2 will make the Phantom Beastcraft plane deck far too good. for Imperial Order they would just play it on the opponent's turn, then when it comes to their own standby they will not pay the maintenance cost so they can activate spells on their turn. The things similar to BLS is, the reason you posted, they are "envoy" monsters, they are chaos monsters, they must 1st be Special summoned from the hand by banishing 1 Light & 1 Dark from the grave, they have 3000 atk/2500 def, and they are level 8. Out of those things, none of them would make BLS get banned. Sure BLS can win a game or two by itself, but you will never win a YCS solely relying on BLS. Also BLS at 0, and Chaos Sorcerer at 1 is a terrible idea. Machine decks aren't even topping at the moment...there's no reason to ban limiter removal. Assuming that you added Megamorph to the forbidden list, that will never happen either because it doesn't see play. SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 07:14, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

A card that I wish was at 3.

Dewloren to 3: I recently built this INSANE mist-valley-Blackwing-genex-Birdman-Atlantean spam deck, which focused on getting Zephyros and thunderbird and gale and dewloren out all at the same time and OTK your opponent. And it was AMAZING!! It spammed dewloren and killed off any pesky monsters (BLS, hint-hint) and each time, I made 3 level 6 Synchron, 2 being dewloren. However, my third was always something like Gaia knight, and EVERY time I didn't put enough damage on board, unless my opponent left their field blank (gorz, anyone?). Anyway, it was so good because it allowed me to overextend while still remaining plus in the hand. However, the fact that I could not OTK every duel (and yes, I could OTK every duel, [if only dew was at 3]because the deck was consistent) made me VERY sad. And I wondered, why is dewloren at 2?!? I mean, yes, there was a loop back then that was pretty nasty, but it involved Trishula, who is banned. So please, if there is another reason why dewloren is at 2, please tell me!!

The fact it can loop with Symbol of Heritage at 3 is enough a reason to keep it at 2, but it can also reuse cards like call of the haunted and fiendish chain as well. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 13:56, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

My predictions / not realistic though

Banned I have no idea, nothing I see should be banned at the moment. NO BLS OR MONSTER REBORN YOU BIG DUMBS, BLS DECKS HAVENT REALLY TOPPED, NOR IS REBORN UNBALANCED. YOU’RE JUST SALTY.

Limited

• Chaos Emperor Dragon – Envoy of the End – All the hate I feel coming from you guys on this, but do you forget all the things that stop and or kill this guy? (veiler, fiendish, bottomless, torrential, solemn brigade, tons of other shit.) He should not be feared like he used to be, we still can’t yata-lock anyone, so stop shitting your pants when you see this guy.

• Trishula Dragon of The Ice Barrier – PLANTS ARE DEAD, plus Infernity’s are getting support and reprints soon.

• Tragoedia – I see too many people using this guy at 2, with Xyz monsters now this guy is probably better than Gorz.http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:March_2013_Banlist_Predictions?action=edit&section=new#

• Atlantean Dragoons - So god damn vehement.

• Torrential Tribute – Broken as f*ck. Nuff said.

• Miracle Fusion – Hero breakfast rape becomes “How much is my deck worth on ebay?”

Semi-Limited

• Advanced Ritual Art – I want more ritual stuff. I don’t think this will effect Gishiki.http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:March_2013_Banlist_Predictions?action=edit&section=16#

• Wind-up Factory - Wind-ups are still ruining people’s lives.

• Black Whirlwind – This card is nothing compared to gateway or factory, and with more support coming out this year, I hope it comes back.

• Blackwing – Gale the whirlwind – same reasoning as whirlwind, why not?

• Snoww, Unlight of Dark World – ughhghgh no explanation needed

• Mermail Abyyslinde - this card is so f*cking derpy

Unlimited

• Spore - No one runs more than one, since it only works once a duel. Limiting it was pointless.

• Magical Stone Excavation - Who runs this card again?

• Reasoning - See Magical Stone Excavation.

Master Gawain (talk • contribs) 03:28, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

CED is never coming back, get that. It's just too powerful, chaos dragons would be tier 0 if they got that card. Gale and Black Whilrlwind at 2 would make Blackwings too good again, I can already tell they'll be too powerful with 2 copies of each. Also, Dark Worlds don't need to be hit since they aren't topping and are too easy to side against. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 13:56, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

It really makes no sense how Judgment Dragon is at 3, and Gale is at 1... also makes no sense how Wind-Up Factory is at 3, and Black Whirlwind is limited, while Gateways is too. 142.22.16.52 (talk) 19:55, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

JD is far less splashable than CED and destroying isn't the same as sending, cause in the case of CED you can't play Road or THRIO to stop it. Also I do think Konami will hit Factory this March as another nerf to Wind-ups, but Wind-Ups, Inzektors, and Rabbits are all fine where they are now for the most part. While they're still capable of otk's, they're less consistent now. I only can truly see Mermail Atlanteans getting nerfed. For the most part, we might have just been getting sour with the decks Konami hit, thinking they didn't do good enough, but they did a great job last banlist and the meta seems balanced for the most part if you ask me. Of course some of the new decks have a chance to get hit, but they also might just wait until September if they don't think it's time yet. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 00:08, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

"Realistic" banlist predictions

BLS to 4: having it at 3 isn't enough

Gale to 4: realistically, why would you have such an anti-meta card at 1?

Ammazoness Village to 2: this card is too good!

Future Visions to 3: see above.

Fortune lady light to 2: see above.

Chaos Emperor Dragon to 2: With BLS at 4 this seems fair.

DMoc to 2: too slow for the meta

Wind-up Shark to 4: having it at 3 kills the deck.

The agent of Mystery-Earth to 5: see above

Monster Reborn to 3: with 5 premature burials, who plays the 2 of these again?

Trishula at 3: seems to hard to make compared to brio.

Brio to 4: this card is at 6!! It's not fair!!

Chaos sorcerer to 4: at 3? Not good enough!

Glow-up Bulb to 7: pointless to put this at 4.

Snoww to 3: putting this to 5 was still to good.

Dragonfly to 4: 2 of this not enough. 7 of this too good. 4 seems just fine.

Mermail Abysslinde to 6: when was the last time Mermails were good?

Undine to 4: 3of this not enough. See above.

Gateway to 2: one of this kills the deck.

Tour Guide to 5: really, Konami! 4 of these isn't good enough.

Sangan to 4: Searching or this card isn't good enough right? Wrong. This card has to go to 4. 6 is too good!!

Yata to 2: This card isn't good anymore.

Pot of greed to 3: every deck already uses 2. Why not put it to 3?

Each piece of Exodia to 3: we're in 2017, Konami! No one plays exodia! Fortune ladies and amazonesses are the deal! -.-

Yeah, talk about "realistic"...you can't have more than 3 of the same cards in your deck anyways, and none of these seem possible to me, nor are they true in the first place. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 00:08, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

"Yata-Garasu Isn't good anymore?" it completely shuts down the oppoents entire deck and stops them doing anything, how is it not good anymore?

[email protected] (talk • contribs) 00:12, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

And Gateway to 2, one of this kills the deck? If there were 2 Gateways, Sams would be tier 1, no doubt. And DMoc to 2: too slow for the current meta? If DMoc came back, prophecy decks would be tier 0 and everyone would abuse him, since reusing a spell card no one wants to see more than once a duel is something no one likes, and DMoc does it almost for free, as does Magician of Faith. 98.206.70.2 (talk) 15:09, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

March 2013 banlist predictions

Ban Monster reborn. Yeah kinda broken....

Limit Tragodia. Used a lot and can be used in almost every deck Bottomless trap hole or torrential. Probably torrential which can cripple many decks Either hieratic dragon of su or the seal of conviction cuz can make hieratic otk to fast even though its not used that much Atlantean dragons, mermaid abyss megelo or some other frequently used merlantian card Rescue rabbit. One card 2-4 xyz. Basically rabbits need to calm down or cut down on their carrots

Semi limit Snoww unlighted of dark world. Nuff said

Unlimit None Prplcobra (talk • contribs) 00:36, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Tragoedia isn't going to get limited until they release a card that could possibly make it too good, if that ever happens. The fact that it is used a lot and can be splashed in to many decks doesn't necessarily qualify it to get hit...im sure lots of people use cards like Heavy storm, MST, Compulsory Evacuation Device, Fiendish Chain and Bottomless Trap hole, but those cards don't need to be hit either. It's also an OTK stopper which...is needed, unless you want to increase the OTK chances which is not beneficial to the game. Hieratics don't need to be hit since they haven't been topping, they have conistency problems and a dark hole/torrential tribute/black rose dragon is deadly against them since they cannot top-deck. Snoow doesn't need to be hit yet with the ease at which DW can be sided against and the failure of DW to put consistent placings in YCS tournaments. SNSD4Life (talk • contribs) 07:28, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

My March 2013 Banlist

Banned:

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning - Way too powerful. I didn't understand why they didn't banned this card the last list Monster Reborn - A very powerful card. Could make your opponent angry if you take their good monster from their graveyard. EVERYONE runs this card Gateway of the Six - Six Samurais are hit already, but they are still topping in tournaments. Basically can adapted to any format with the support from monsters from other Archetypes >_>. I think they should slow down Six Samurais a little more. Mind Control - With Xyz and Synchro monsters out, This card has become annoying.

Limited:

Rescue Rabbit - Can basically Xyz almost any rank 4 or lower Xyz monsters. Also there are Dino Rabbit. And this card will be even worse with "Lightning Chidori" out and "Sylphine, the Cold Bird Beast" soon to come out in the OCG. Shien's Smoke Signal - Read Gateway of the Six. Wind-Up Factory - This gives Wind-Ups too much search power. Wind-Up magician - Puts alot of combos in Wind-Up monsters (Especially Wind-Up Shark). This card also helps swarm the field with Wind-Ups. Atlantean Dragoons - Gives Mermail/Atlanteans powerful search. Also lets your level 3 or lower sea serpents attack directly. Mermail Abysslinde - Lets you special summon any atlantean from your deck. This card will get even worse with the new Mermail cards coming out (Mermail Abyssleed). Also can be revived with Call of the Haunted and can be brung out by Abyss-sphere. Madolche Magileine - Gives Madolche search power. Can search itself. Abusable with Ultimate Offering. Can return to the hand by Madolche Chateau. Can be searched by Madolche Ticket (basically get shuffled to the deck and added from the deck to the hand after that). Sinister Serpent - Too slow for the current metagame Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier - More noticeable due to Brionac and Trishula being banned. Atlanteans triggers their effects with this card. Spellbook of Secrets - With all these new spellbook cards coming out, i think this should get hit. Spellbook Magician of Prophecy - Read Spellbook of Secrets. Madolche Ticket - Gives Madolche search power. combos well with the queen (especially with Madolche Chateau on the field).

Semi-limited:

Snoww, Unlight of the Dark World - Searches any dark world card from your deck. Most search cards for their respected archetypes are limited or semi-limited so... Gear Giant X - Search card for any machine deck. Also with the Phantom Beast Plane archetype coming soon in the OCG, they can use this card. T.G. Striker - not that noticeable anymore. Lonefire Blossom - no one really runs plants anymore. Scapegoat - not that noticeable anymore. Abyss-sphere - Brings Abysslinde to your field. Can be searched by Abyssmegalo. Geargiarmor - Decent defense for a search monster. triggers when flipped face-up. can be flipped back face-down. Wall of Revealing Light - not noticeable anymore. Call of the Haunted - Brings Sangan or Card Trooper for hand advantage. Mermails use this card. Self mill decks and synchro decks love this card.

Unlimited:

Magical Stone Excavation - No one really plays this card these days. gives -2 Reborn Tengu - with the popular use of Xyz monsters, this card would mainly only be used as a stall. Debris Dragon - Kinda lost it's edge. Plants arent really seen running these days. also it's synchro conditions are only limited to dragons synchro monsters. Spore - no one really runs more than 1.

this is my perdition Guardian Skunk (talk • contribs) 08:07, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

I could see Mind Control getting banned at some point, but I'm not leaning towards it yet. Also, Sams haven't been doing as well as they used too at tournaments; they only won 1 or 2 YCS, and hitting them so much as to ban Gateway or Limit Smoke Signal hurts their consistency too much. I.e. they're fine where they are now, don't kill them. I also wouldn't hit Madolches or Spellbooks that much since they haven't done well at nationals or YCS. They're a fun deck, but not competitive enough to consider getting hit, like Gishkis and Fableds. Geargia's are in the same boat, other than winning 1 YCS or so, they aren't the best deck around. If you don't think Wall of Revealing light is noticeable at 1, it probrably will be more noticeable at 2 due to more frequent draws with Self-Destruct Button and Hope for Escape Exodia (the latter being the biggest concern). Call of the Haunted is fine at 3; most people I've seen don't opt to run more than 2, since it's slower and weaker than Premature Burial and Monster Reborn (which are banned and limited, respectively). Yeah Tengu would be a bit less useful for xyz's, but it's not the best way to revive synchros by bringing it up to 3. Debris Dragon to 3 is a possibility, but it might lead to too many pluses at 3, like Tengu would. Spore to 3 is obvious. Stone Excavation and Reasoning might go up to 3 each simply due to lack of use in the current metagame. Sinister Serpent should also be obvious, and I don't know if Wind-ups are getting hit again. I definitely see Mermail Atlanteans getting hit in some form. 69.208.66.117 (talk) 08:31, January 19, 2013 (UTC)