Forum:Samurai Structure Deck

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Structure_Deck:_Samurai_Warlords

This has been announced yesterday on the Konami Yu-Gi-Oh! website. I was wondering on people's opinion on the idea of releasing it. On the 1 hand it has Fiendish Chain, Legendary Six Samurai - Kizan definitely getting reprinted, along with a Samurai XYZ monster. But on the other hand, this is probably the biggest example of helping people 'auto-pilot' with a ready made deck, that is pretty competitive.

Also finally what do people think the new XYZ will be. In my opinion it will be suomething like this:

• Rank: 4
• Attribute: Light
• Type: Warrior
• ATK: 2300 DEf:1900
• Effect: 2 Level 4 Six Samurai Monsters. Once per turn, during either player's turn, you can detach 1 XYZ material to negate the activation of an Effect Monster's Effect and Destroy it. If you control another Six Samurai Monster, when this Card would be destroyed, you can Destroy another Face-Up Six Samurai Monster instead.

Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 13:55, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Welp, I was about to buy some six sams off Coretcg. But now that this is coming out, I can wait for a while. Adamtheamazing64 (talk • contribs) 14:02, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty disappointed that this is what the TCG Structure Deck is. Samurai had their moment in the spotlight already; give some support to something like "Koa'ki Meiru", which are all primed to Xyz Summon using Koa'ki Meiru Urnight. This also seems like a huge money grab if there will only be a single new card in it, instead of 5 like normal Structure Decks get. --Golden Key (talk • contribs) 14:03, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm disappointed with the announcement too, in a way. I am a Six Sam player, so I don't directly benefit from it, bar the new card/cards that will come out in it. I agree though that the Samurai probably shouldn't be the Structure deck. Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 14:07, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

When Shien's Smoke Signal went back to two it was obvious that Konami wants them meta again. And this further proves that. So now I predict a Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En reprint in Gold Series: Haunted Mine or some other upcoming pack. Djjomon (talk • contribs) 14:21, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

This is great news, because I play Six Samurais. I want both that XYZ monster (that would be awesome if your description was accurate Doz) and I want Fiendish chains. Who knows, maybe it will come with a Maxx C.  :-)

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:18, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I think it would make perfect sense for the XYZ Samurai to be able to negate effetcs, so it will pair well with Shi En. I doubt that Maxx C will be in the deck, but im hopeful of its appearance in the deck.

Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 16:49, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, imagine being able to have Shi-En, Naturia Beast, Naturia Barkion, Naturia Landoise, and a XYZ samurai that blocks effect all at the same time. That would be awesome, but impossible due to field restrictions.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 17:24, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Would be possible if it includes using Monster Reborn on one of them monsters. Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 18:22, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Why do people think Sams are "auto-pilot"? It's not as easy as "derp out a Shi En and derp all of of the opponents Spells and Traps for game". 70% of the time, your opponent will deal with Shi En and you'll be in a bad situation. Trust me, there are some hands where you are really gonna have to get creative to win. Sams can do so much, and yes, some people do choose to run them in an auto-pilot fashion. But, there are a lot of skillful plays that can be done with the deck. As for the structure, I want because I'm borrowing half of my Sam deck, and I need the Fiendish Chains. But, at the same time, now there's going to be a lot of noobs running Sams. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 18:29, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I have been playing Six Samurai since they first came out, long before the time of Shi En, Gateway etc. While it maybe true that Six Samurai may experience some bad hands at times, but more often than not they are sort of auto-pilot. Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 18:46, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't mean bad hands, I meant non-Shi En dropping hands, which are frequent for me for some reason. My point is, you can do so much with them besides just dropping Shi En, Beast, and Barkion, and there are tons of skillful, non-auto-pilot things you can do. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 18:50, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

It is far more common to get non shi en hands these days, I've noticed that too. Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 18:52, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Even with two Smoke Signals, I find myself mostly opening up with Kageki + Hand/Mizuho/Elder ---> Rank 3 Xyz. Not a terrible opener, except I don't have a Zenmaines. So, will this have common Smoke Signal, ROTA, Gateway, Dojo, etc? I'm really wondering what the Super Rares are going to be. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 18:58, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

WHY GOD WHY?!?!?!?!? I only want the Fiendish Chain. I blame my friend, hes new to dueling and he wanted to make a Six Sam deck, now they make this. WHY?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! And that's why they call me Masterz! 19:05, March 16, 2012 (UTC)Digimaster1

Because Konami hates you. But seriously, so that more people can play competitively so Konami can make more money. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 19:07, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Shi-En helps a lot in winning, but when you are playing a Samurai deck, your opponent expects you to go for Shi-En. Honestly, I have discovered that unless you get to go first and can summon Shi-En right then and there, it is best not to risk bring him out without securing the field first. Even then though, if I can, I may go for Barkion first. Too many people save their Solemns and BTHs for when Shi-En comes out. I personally think Zanji, Kizan, and Enishi are the main monsters your opponent has to look out for. Zanji can take out that Five God Dragon or Judgment Dragon you just summoned regardless of the loss of LP (unless you do not have enough LP to spare) through battle, and Enishi can just send them back to your hand by removing two Samurais from the graveyard. While that may not be a problem on the next turn for a Judgment Dragon player, it is a big deal for someone who just got out Five God Dragon, especially if they only have one Future Fusion in their deck. As for Kizan, he is the card you use to be able to activate these effects since you can normal summon an Enishi/Zanji, and then special summon Kizan. As great as these cards are, with my using them over the last few weeks since my Nordics are pretty unplayable now, you still have to think more strategic with them than expecting to just overwhelm your opponent with the number of monsters on the field. Swarming is great, but it only takes one or two specific cards to destroy your plan if you solely rely on swarming.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 19:20, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well said. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 19:23, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I rarely go for Shi En first, depending on the hands I draw, I often go for one of the Naturia Synchro's, or Catastor. More often than not, you can win without going for Shi En. Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 19:24, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

BTW, the name of the XYZ card has to be Daimyo of the Six Samurai. I just cannot think of anything else relating to Samurai that would fit unless they wanted to go with Ronin or Blacksmith. However, I think Daimyo would be the best choice.

Man, all this talking about Samurai cards makes me want to replay the Onimusha series...

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 22:44, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

And yet another "Ughhh... It's that deck again" gets an upgrade.
It's hard enough dealing with a Shi En, especially on a bad hand, now a Shi En + this new card is going to pretty near make it game unless they draw into Smashing Ground + Dark Hole or some crap.
And the "fun" just continues, there's currently an infinite hand destruction loop with both Six Sams and Infernities, Six Sams are harder to do it with though.
I may be wrong, I didn't sit through the 7 minutes of looping to see the result.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 11:31, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

No there isn't. You cannot do an infinite loop with Six Samurais because Mizuho's effect can only be done once per turn. I watched a Youtube video where this guy explained how to do it, and he was using her effect multiple times in the same turn, when that is not possible. It states on the card, Once per turn, you can Tribute another "Six Samurai" monster to select and destroy 1 card on the field. There is no way to do it an infinite number of times, even with 3 Mizuhos and 2 Shinais on the field, as I have tried it and it just does not work that way.

And you ever think the reason "it's that deck again" is because it works? And it works better than most against the Big 3? If I could, I would be playing Nordics, but I cannot even get a turn in most of the time on DN. WIth my friends, yes, I can get a few turns, but online, I lose the game half the time before I even get to play my second turn. I get to set a card, end my turn, then my opponent wins through whatever means.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:06, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Infernities have an infinite hand loop? How? Trish is banned. Is there something I missed? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:25, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

No Kain, he didn't use Mizuho once, the monsters he used were Hand of the Six Samurai and Legendary Six Samurai - Kizan. Was it this what you watched?
And the reason I think it's a "Oh it's that deck again" deck is because it's annoying as hell, they spam the field and negate any spell/trap you use, they can almost always get a shi-en out (or after this structure deck something equally as good) and on a bad hand for you that's game.
My view of Six Sams is worse than Wind-Ups or Inzektors, at least I can play all my cards (I have left) once their loops are done, it's like a spam and less negating version of Rabbit.
And @Skull, it's with Verz Ouroboros, it took him 7 minutes to do in real life so it'd take a tad longer for DN, The youtube vid: (Japanese), The instructions: (English).
121.222.170.239 (talk) 01:12, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Funny you mention him, as I am currently proxing a Verz Ouroboros in my deck because he is so much easier to summon than Mist Wurm. I want him to come out in the US already so I can get one. Although, I hope he does not cost like $40 when he first comes out. What is taking so long anyway? I am also interested in Verz Thanatos for my Nordic Deck.

As for Six Samurais, sorry, but no. I love them, I just whooped my friend's ass 4 out of 6 games, but that is because he is using a Red Eyes centered dragon deck (sort of, it is a dragon theme though, he has Photon and L&D Dragon in it). However, if he were to use Inzektors, Rabbits, or Wind-Ups, I would not stand a chance. I do have to say though, I forgot who it was that recommended Electric Virus, but I have two of him in my side deck, and replaced my Proxy Maxx Cs and it really devistated his deck at the worst possible moment. He brought out Five God Dragon, wiped out my monsters, my turn, I used Electric Virus and wiped out his LP with Five God Dragon. It was fun and the look of frustration on his face was priceless. I told him though he should definitely start proxying those Heratic dragons from Galactic Overlord to see if they will work for him before he goes on a buying spree in May.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:43, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

WHY WHY WHY WHY SIX SAMS? blackwings are nearly as strong.why are they destined to be bad? they have their own friggin game-winning owls GIVE THEM HELP KONAMI! LG talk My own Guides 05:37, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

I've always hated how Black Wings synchro monsters are so bad it's hilarious, if they could make some BW Xyz's that'd be quite interesting, although from what I can gather it's not very common to see two BW with the same levels on the field.

And @Kain, don't worry, people love their Wind-Up, Inzektor, Rabbit, Chain Burn, Final Countdown and Exodia decks too. Loving a deck doesn't change anything except your own views on it, it's still going to be the same deck that annoys the same people.

And according to these loops: Verz Ouroboros is going to be quite expensive, I'd say Daigusto Emeral would be almost as expensive too. Depending on rarity ofcourse.

121.222.170.239 (talk) 06:02, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Laserghost, Blackwings are nowhere near as strong as Sams, at least not the way the Banlists hit them. I would actually like to see 3 Gateways vs. 3 Whirlwinds.

And I do believe Emeral and Ouroboros will be ridiculous expensive. Probably $50+. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 06:07, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]No Kain, he didn't use Mizuho once, the monsters he used were Hand of the Six Samurai and Legendary Six Samurai - Kizan. Was it this what you watched?
[/quote]

No, that is definitely not the video I have seen. I actually never heard of Emeral before. Interesting ideas, however, I have some issues. First off, how is he bringing Kizan to the field when they only have 2 counters on Gateway? You need 4 counters on Gateway to use it. Secondly, you would really need to have a perfect hand on the first turn to do something like this. If someone were to try to rely on this technique, it would definitely backfire on them. However, I'll keep this in mind, but I'm still not sure how he did that with Gateway only having 2 counters.

Electric, you think even when they first come out they will be overpriced? I could understand a few months in, but not the moment that series comes out.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 06:28, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

He had 1 Gateway of the Six, that gets two counters per summon, and he had two "collection" cards that each get one counter per summon, just any other Six Samurai card that gains Bushido Counters, aka Shien's Dojo, Six Samurai United, and I think Temple of the Six.
Since Gateway of the Six says "You can remove Bushido Counters from your side of the field" two with Gateway, one on each of the others is perfect.
And yes, the hand is situational but it'd be more of a bonus kind of thing, think of it like Dragons opening with Future Fusion, you don't rely on it but it's a great opener.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 06:36, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, so the counters don't have to belong to Gateway specifically?  :-o

Son of a *****!!! I have been using this deck all wrong!!

Also though, this combo would mean you would have to use 3x Verz Ouroboros to make it worth it, and honestly, I don't think I would do that. It would mean taking away at least 3 additional spots that would go to my Synchros or other XYZ monsters. On the other hand, I think all of the synchros I just bought in the last 3 weeks are going to become obsolete before I get to even use them. -_- I think buying Mist Wurm and Orient Dragon was a mistake. Plus, Ouroboros is bound to become a limited card immediately after its release.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 06:41, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Mist Wurm is good, Orient Dragon isn't as good since Xyz's came out.
And it won't be limited until the next banlist which is in September, there aren't many cards that have been hit outside of a banlist and there has yet to be an Xyz hit too.
Ah, what a fun format, a format where you either have no field, no hand and/or everything is negated.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 06:53, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

But will Emeral and Ouroborus even be in the US by the next ban list?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 06:57, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Most likely. Galactic Overlord has just come out in OCG and it's planned for May 8 in TCG.
Chances are it'll be in TCG by September.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 07:01, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

no summoned skull 2 blackwings are as strong as sams but the list is the thing crippling them. imagine 6 sams vs bw with a semi'd gale and kalut LG talk My own Guides 07:48, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

I know, I mentioned that it was because of the ban list. But, I think they'd need more than 2 Kalut and 2 Gale to be better than Sams.

@ Kain Yes, I do think they'll be expensive right away. Usually, if a card is known to be good, it will be expensive right away. It happened with Trishula. It happened with Rescue Rabbit. It happened with Laggia (which went down a lot though). It happened with Duality. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:11, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

TCG messed up again with an archtype. It was suposed to be Six Samurai Synchro vs Ninja Xyz. Why does TCG always mess up with nice ideas OCG creates just like they didn't give Scrap Mind Reader the scrap tuner recycle effect or Wind-Up Shark isn't "once while this card is face-up on the field" --Rubynator (talk • contribs) 18:15, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Because Konami is done with Synchros. Also, ninjas are useless.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 18:25, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Ninjas useless? Not at all. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 18:40, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, don't tell me him that.

-D

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 18:49, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to see you against a White Dragon Ninja Safe Zone lock.
Or a Dark Simorgh Anti-Spell Fragrance lock (easier to get done with ninjas)
They make some damn good locks. Ironic since ninjas are meant to break locks.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 21:45, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Not familiar with any of those cards.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 23:53, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Which is why he was nice enough to make Links for you.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 00:29, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!!!

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 06:43, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

You know, I don't want to aggravate you any more than you already are, Dr Kain, but you don't need to be so defensive all the time. --Blue-Eyes Starlight Dragon (talk • contribs) 07:13, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please. Kain, and everyone for that matter, please calm down and let's get back to talking about this crazy delicious beast of a structure deck!

What do you guys think the Super Rares will be? New cards or reprints? --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:04, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Inb4 a wind-up structure deck.
And the supers are probably going to be the new Xyz or Shi En.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 22:02, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

The Xyz and Shi En can't both be in this because it only comes with 41 cards. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 22:04, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

I hope Gateway is a Super Rare since mine is a common, and I prefer shiny cards.

Why would the structure deck only come with one XYZ card though? Are these things supposed to include at least 3 cards for the Extra Deck?

BTW, I am not always defensive, it is just that sarcasm and such are lost in the world of text. This is why texting will always be inferior to a physical conversation.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:04, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Following Konami's typical structure decks, the Xyz will be the ultra, and two new cards will be the supers. That means another common Gateway (assuming it gets reprinted, by why wouldn't it?) Djjomon (talk • contribs) 04:19, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Argh!!!  :-/

Anyway, I hope there is a Shien's Dojo in there, because I could use a third.

Either way, I will be buying a few of these SDs just for Fiendish Chain, if nothing else.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:09, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Am I the only one that thinks Six Samurais and Dark Hole do not mix? They just seem like a bad combo since the majority of the time, using Dark Hole is going to hurt you more than it will hurt your oppponent. Dark Hole is a great card (same with Torrential), but it isn't good for every deck, especially ones that swarm.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:17, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Copied right from Forum:Deck Guide/General.
5. The less conditional a card is the better. This covers activation conditions, costs, benefits, card advantage, everything. The best card is one that is powerful, has little to no cost, generates lots of card advantage, and requires no other cards to be present. Dark Hole is a prime example of such a card. When considering this point, ask yourself "How useful would this card be if it were the only card that I had to use?" or more simply "What would topdecking this card mean for me?"

Make your deck how you wish, but if you want it to be competitive not using Dark Hole is laughable.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 07:48, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

First of all The Samurai's are not auto pilot by any means.

Just because they can throw out Shi En first turn with some consistency doesn't mean they auto win either. The samurai Have many combos for you to use as opposed to one combo that only requires 1 card in general (Such as rabbit, or Tour guide), and rabbit just says okay I lock down any 1-2 things (Depending on which evolzar they pick) Shi en will normally only use his effect if they have a way of dealing with him then and there other wise they will slap out a monster like Gorz on the defensive and bust him up.

While I myself do like the fact that I can finally finish (for the most part) my sam deck I was missing a few cards for. I do feel upset that there are gonna be like 20 newbs around here who just buy the deck as is and then play the same deck as all the other newbs thinking they will be unbeatable because konami put the words tournament and deck in the same sentence...

Either way As long as I finish my deck I am okay with that I'll just beat them so badly they will go back to their normal decks.

Shinkirou 19:40, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Shinkirou, no offense, but you are a little late to the party. We already established that there is more to the deck than Shi-En. In fact, the way I put it, Shi-En is actually my Kagamusha, as he is the distraction for my main attractions (Enishi, Kizan, and Zanji). Getting him out on the field is a definite bonus, but he is not the be all end all card.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 20:21, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

They are relatively auto-pilot, they do take some form of skill in late game though. And auto-pilot != auto win.

A little story:

Back when I was playing the WC2011 nds game I was at the part of the first rental duels.

I chose Six Sams, knowing nothing of what they were like (I'd only just got back into the game), just think of it as I knew absolutely nothing about them.

Pretty much every duel was me clicking summon when I could summon, effect when I could use an effect then attacking and ending my turn.

If someone can win constantly without even knowing the cards they're playing that deck's probably auto-pilot.

121.222.170.239 (talk) 02:58, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Bad example. You are talking about a video game, which is far easier than playing the actual game.

You still need to know how to strategize your cards otherwise you will be wiped out immediately.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 21:56, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Are we still talking about this auto vs. non-auto crap? They're not auto-run as a whole. It's easy to mess up with Sams, there's tons of strategies and options, and even though Shi En is easy as balls to drop, it's doesn't mean you win if you drop it. I think the reason you can pick them up not knowing what they do and still do decent is the fact that their most basic strategies are pretty straight-forward. Anyone can do alright with Six Sams, but only some can do amazingly well with Six Sams. But, the fact remains that every noob with about 50 bucks (for 3 structures and a Shi En and some other needed cards) will be running this deck. 60-70% of the people who buy this product and build a Six Sam deck with it will suck at running Six Sams.

tl;dr Sams may be noob-friendly but only skilled players will consistently win with them. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:03, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

But that's true with any deck, even Wind-Ups, Inzektors and Rabbit. Anyone can play them but only someone really good with them can get very far.

And @Kain no the games aren't easier. The only difference is one's automated and the other isn't.

121.222.170.239 (talk) 02:24, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing that overly-complicated in those decks to figure out. But, that's just how I personally feel. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 02:28, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well as you say with Six Sams, once the main combo is over (e.g. Shi En being banished) is where the skill starts.

With Wind-Ups after the loop is where you see how good they are, what do they make, if a Maxx "C" is dropped how do they react, if Hunter is banished what do they do, etc.

With Inzektors what do they do if Chain Disappearance is activated on their Dragonfly, if you get a stardust out, if they run out of Inzektors, etc.

With Rabbit if you haven't won by the second laggia you're doing something wrong.

121.222.170.239 (talk) 09:28, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Those are all true I guess. But, with Wind-Ups, if the loop is stopped, all you have to know is how to spam Xyz Monsters. With Inzektors, all you have to do is Leviair the Dragonfly. With Rabbit, I do actually believe a lot of skill can come into play with that deck. But, you're not necessarily doing something wrong if you haven't won by the second Laggia, your opponent just might be doing better. But still, Rabbit isn't as skillful late game as Sams imo. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 17:15, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion Six Samurai's take the most skill midgame. Especially against the Wind-Up's/Inzektors/Rabbit decks. Like them 3 decks the Samurai have some really explosive plays, the main problem with these plays is the fact Gateway is often a key component, and barring a good early draw, it is pretty much unsearchable. Playing around without Gateway or another Counter Generator is where the skill is, as it requires more forward planning and some more unusual plays.

Anyway another point is does anyone have more thoughts regarding the Samurai XYZ. So far mine is the only suggestion of what it could/should be like.

Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 01:19, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

It better be Rank 3 or 4. If it's Rank 5, I won't run it. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 01:37, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

There is no way a Rank 5 would work. In fact, how many decks use more than Rank 4 monsters? Even a monster like Thunder End Dragon is nearly impossible to pull off since you need 2 LVL8 NORMAL Dragons on the field. I just cannot see Konami making it anything other than a Rank 4. Now depending on its effect, I could see it requiring 3 LVL4 monsters, but it will most likley only require 2. If that is the case, just have a LVL 4 on the field, if you can, bring out Invoker, get Kizan out, and then there you go.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:12, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

It's gonna be a rank 6 >:) --Helix-king (talk • contribs) 04:14, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't even be surprised. And Kain, Rank 5 does work in Sams, just not spectacularly. I've dropped Tiras with Grandmaster and Shi En to get around problematic crap like Stardust before. --> Summoned Skull 2: Electric Boogaloo 06:53, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

That awkward moment when I though GM was a 6 because it's bean so long since one has bean dropped on me. Damn you Shi En, this is your doing.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 07:02, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

Ahahaha... oh wait, you're serious about them needing the most skill in the meta?
If you class them as tier 1.5 there's still Karakuri's and Chaos Stun, although they haven't seen much play lately they're still around that tier. And then there's DW that do take some form of skill (yes I do realize most people only spam grapha).
And remember that hand/field/grave banish loop I posted before? I just realized there's Heroic Champion Excalibur, since it uses all its material in a single effect they can continue the loop and get 3 of them with 4000 attack on the field quite easily.
Looks like Six Sams are going to be up on the broken/annoying list with Rabbit/Wind-Ups/Inzektors once all this support comes out.
And yes having 2 collection cards and 1 Gateway may not be common but it wouldn't exactly be super rare.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 10:44, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, dude, we get it, you think they are broken. Get off your high horse and either start discussing the structure decks itself or leave. Just because you suck against Six Samurais does not mean we have to listen to you drone about them. We read you the first 4 times.

What do you think the XYZ monster is going to be like?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 12:53, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

Holy shit you're up yourself. I say that because you think that just because someone hates your favourite deck it must mean they suck against it. Do you hate Exodia, Burn, Wind-Ups, Rabbit and/or Inzektors because you suck against them?
As for the Xyz', the OP's is probably correct, except I doubt it'll be light as Six Sams are normally strange attributes. There's a lack of water/wind attribute Six Sams so maybe that. Maybe the effect would be a bit more balanced for a mass negation deck too, maybe just negating the monsters effect but not destroying it.
Or since Six Sams hate to be destroyed something like "You can detached as many materials as Six Samurai monsters would be destroyed and negate their destruction" or something.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 13:36, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

I never said I hated Inzektors/Wind-Ups/Rabbits. I am intrigued by what they can do. As for Exodia and Burn, never played against either, but honestly, Exodia is a joke these days. He was good back in 2002, but once 2004 hit, he is crap.

I never said Samurais were my favorite deck either. Just because I use them does not mean they are my favorite. If it were up to me, I would still be using my Shinato Fairy deck, or even my Counter Trap Fairy Deck, but neither of those are competable at all. Hell, I would also be using my Nordic Deck since I put so much time and money into that thing. I use Samurais because they are competable, have effects to quickly eat through the deck, and can clear the field of big monsters. Plus, because I already had the majority of their cards due to buying a few boxes of Storms of Ragnarok. Lastly, I think of the Onimusha series when I play them.

In fact, the only reason I would play Inzektors are because they remind me of the series Kamen Rider Kabuto. They had a mode called Inzektor mode. I would not play Wind-Ups or Rabbit decks because they have nothing that interests me within their structures.

BTW, if Dark Hole is such an important card that much be in every deck, how come every deck that is winning tournaments does not use it? Maybe your problem is relying on Dark Hole to clear the field instead of other cards. Same goes with MST. Yes, it is a useful card, but there is no reason to have it in the main deck.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:11, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

You duel on DN but never verse burn or exodia? I'm calling bs, DN loves to troll people so they play it reasonably often.
And you think exodia got worse? They gained quite a lot of support, the main one being One Day of Peace and unless you play DW or Wind-Ups you can't really counter them (in most peoples main decks anyway) because Trish got banned.
And sorry, I should've said your favourite competitive deck. Everyone has those decks that are centuries old but they still love.
Also, I don't blame you for not wanting to play those decks, they're boring to verse why would you want to play them? And it's partially the same reason I don't play Infernities (I'm not calling them boring), I think it's a waste to play them without playing their loops.

For the Dark Hole question:
YCS Atlanta: [1]
Only 3 decks didn't main deck Dark Hole.
One Empty Jar player, they don't need it because they don't need to attack.
One Dark World player, god knows why they didn't use it.
One Inzektor player, I can understand why since they need targets to blow up in order to get effects off, so blowing up all the targets beforehand would be less useful. They also Side Decked it.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 05:24, March 28, 2012 (UTC) 121.222.170.239 (talk) 05:15, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

kain, dark hole is not a must activate card, simply don't activate it when you have monsters, also if its gonna hurt you more than the opponent then you have a better advantage than the opponent. also heres a situation: your opponent has a field of 2 marshmallons and 3 spirit reapers and you have 3 kizan,grandmaster and elder. your hand is kageki and kagemusha and you draw dark hole. the opponents LP 2400 and your LP 400 what do you call that? LG talk My own Guides 15:11, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

See, I would rather have 40 cards in my deck and not make Dark Hole a 41st card. I would rather have 13 (Ascet, Dojo, Gateway, United, Smoke, RotA) of the 16 magic cards I use (Book, Reborn, Heavy) in my deck that let me draw cards over having Dark Hole.

As for your situation:

also heres a situation: your opponent has a field of 2 marshmallons and 3 spirit reapers and you have 3 kizan,grandmaster and elder. your hand is kageki and kagemusha

I first overlay for Verz Ouroborus, I remove one of their spell/trap cards. Then, I put Kagemusha and Kageki on the field, overlay Elder and Kageki for Wind-Up Zenmaines and synchro Kagemusha and Grandmaster for Black Rose Dragon. I wipe out the field with BRD's effect, except I detach a material from Zenmaines to keep him on the field. I then attack my opponent for 1500 damage.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:03, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Then keep the deck at 40? Remove a card for dark hole?
Oh I don't want to play monster reborn! It'd raise my deck to 41, I've got more important cards to run like shapesnatch.
And right, if they have S/T with 3 Spirit Reaper and 2 Marshmallon I'm sure they'd have some sort of protection set.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 09:18, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

When did this become a mock someone for the cards they don't want to use in their deck topic? Seriously dude, you are an utter asshole!!!

I am not playing Dark Hole, simple as that. Don't like it, tough shit, it isn't your deck.

And anyway, if someone really has that much defense for a Marshmallon/Spirit Reaper on their deck, then they are obviously going to have defense against Dark Hole. Summoning Verz is the distraction, if they have a Solemn, they will waste it on Verz. I then summon Zenmaines second because if they have another Solemn or something, they will waste it getting rid of him too. Then I summon BRD and wipe everything out. However, I also have Fiendish Chains in my deck, which will take out those Marshmallons and Reapers. I have Enishi, which will send the card back to my opponents hand. I have Zanji, which will destroy the card no matter what. I also have Catastor and Decisive Armor in my Extra Deck, oh, and guess what, Marshmallon is a Light monster, and Decisive Armor's abilities work when the opponent controls a Light monster. If my opponent managed to get all 5 of those on the field, either I am doing something wrong, or they are an idiot because they aren't doing anything that is going to help them win either.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:52, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Kain, you can make up all these random and weird situations all you want, at the end of the day, even you are admitting it takes you 3+ cards to deal with them, when a SINGLE Dark Hole does the same thing.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 17:54, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

kain,if DH is gonna hurt you more than the opponent then simply don't activate it because you will most likely have more advantage than your opponen't and yeah you wiped the field using like 4 cards and didn't win while if you used DH you would have won LG talk My own Guides 18:49, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

121, here, we can continue this discussion here:

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Advice_on_improving_my_Six_Samurai_Deck?t=20120321145337

However, let me first say sorry, I am not trying to say your reasonings for DH are stupid, it's just that the card itself does not work in my samurai build. I love DH as much as everyone else, but I just do not have room for it. Same reason why I side MST.

However, when we talk about auto-pilot, wouldn't putting the standard cards in the deck be considered auto-pilot too? You are just taking everyone else's ideas for half of your deck. I mean, having MR, DH, BoM, HS, MST (x2), SJ, SW (x2), BTH (x2), and MF is a quarter of your deck determined by other players.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 20:09, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Think of it like this:
You get into a duel against Hieroglyph's, they go first and spam the field (for whatever reason). Dark hole would be amazing in that situation.
OR, if you duel against them and the duel isn't going your way, you have say... 1500 LP left and they have a full field.
It's a great card to help you out in a pinch and it can also help when you're going for an OTK, like DH their monsters then swarm the field.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 00:07, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well let me ask you this, Mirror Force or Dark Hole?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:59, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Depends on the situation but if you mean in general then Dark Hole.
Dark Hole's faster and doesn't require them to attack, if they draw into an MST/Heavy before attacking Mirror Force is useless.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 06:17, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Dark Hole by a long way. The problem with Mirror Force in Sams this format is that 2 of the 3 big decks this format(soon to be 3 of the 4) run Spell and Trap hate in Monster form. Since Mirror Force can't be activated during the Main Phase, added to the fact that Heavy Storm is at 1 and MST is at 3, Mirror Force will more often than not end up in the Graveyard before the Battle Phase starts. It simply isn't as live as it used to be. Dark Hole on the other hand doesn't require you to wait until your opponent's turn or fulfill a certain condition to activate it. Thus you can activate it when you need it. If you need monster destruction during the opponent's turn, Torrential Tribute can be chained to the summon of monsters that destroy Spell and Trap cards, so it's usually more easily used than Mirror Force. --Draw5 (talk • contribs) 06:18, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

......aaand now back to your scheduled programming, THE SAMURAI STRUCTURE DECK!!!! Anyone else think they might do a common duality in here? I think it would be really cool if they loaded this deck with cards that COULD actually go to a tournament, and it was like $15 or $20 instead. What would justify buying this deck for you guys if it was $20 and "tournament-ready"Trak0don (talk • contribs) 12:57, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

1 XYZ, 1 Shi En, and a N. Beast would be the bee's knees.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 13:38, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

in worst cases kain, -1 united for DH.DH should be run at any cost also, this might be off topic but did anyone think of running a pure wind up deck without loops? i made a build around Zenmaistorm LG talk My own Guides 13:46, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Just a heads up, the deck runs 41 cards....It only has one card in the extra deck, being the xyz monster. Therefore, no Shi En, no Naturia Beast etc. :( 148.100.224.97 (talk) 15:31, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

When will they reveal the XYZ monster?

Also, why Great Shogun Shien? I mean, it is a cool card, as I have played it, but honestly, it does not help out at times because it is a dead draw.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 23:48, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

They'll release information on it when they get around to it.
And just so you know, although I hate six sam's with a passion I still look forward to all new cards being released to see how they can be used, this includes the six sam cards.
121.222.170.239 (talk) 07:30, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

I guess here is as good a place as any to post this...

I was looking at images of the six samurai, and It appeared to me that they had chemical vials hooked up to their bodies (and Kageki looks as if he his helmet is attached to his brain.) anyone else seeing this?

Shinkirou 01:56, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

So has anyone looked at the art for the XYZ Samurai? He looks like Kagemusha, which means he must be a Daimyou (Warlord/Leader) since that was the job of a Kagemusha. So I'm guessing his name will either be Daimyou of the Six Samurai(as I said a while back) or Warlord of the Six Samurai.

Wow, and it is now just under 2 months until this set is released, I cannot wait. I hope we find out what his effect is this month.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 17:28, May 1, 2012 (UTC)

First of all a Daimyō is a Lord who watches over land, while a Kagemusha is defined as either A) body double (usually for a military leader like a Shogun) or B) String Puller/Manipulator. A Daimyō and a Kagemusha are very different.

While it does look like Kagemusha its armor looks like Shien's So I'd think a Xyz of Kagemusha, and it has Shinai's and Mizuho's pendent so maybe Rank 3.

Shinkirou 03:39, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]First of all a Daimyō is a Lord who watches over land, while a Kagemusha is defined as either A) body double (usually for a military leader like a Shogun) or B) String Puller/Manipulator. A Daimyō and a Kagemusha are very different. [/quote]

Yes, and a Kagemusha was a body double for daimyous as well as shoguns. That is why I said it would make sense for him to look like Kagemusha of the Six Samurai if he were to be Daimyou of the Six Samurai, since Kagemushas had to look like the same person.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:10, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

That statement makes no sense. You don't even know if they have Daimyo in the yugioh world. Kagemusha was most likely (Or mainly given his effect) a body double for Shien which is why I stated their armor looks similar.

And a Kagemusha does not have to look similar they can be in heavy clothing to hid ether differences or even introduce the Kagemusha as the actual Person to make them think e should be the target in the first place.

Shinkirou 13:11, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

<smacks forhead>

Oh my god, I never said it was actually the Daimyou. I said it would make sense if it was.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:24, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't say you did, I said your theory lacked any real basis short of he looks like kagemusha so he might be a Daimyo...

Shinkirou 19:48, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

No no no, what I was referring to is that on March 16th, I said this:

[quote]BTW, the name of the XYZ card has to be Daimyo of the Six Samurai. I just cannot think of anything else relating to Samurai that would fit unless they wanted to go with Ronin or Blacksmith. However, I think Daimyo would be the best choice.[/quote]

So when I said that he looks similar to Kagemusha, I was referring to my previous post since him looking alike hints that it will be a Daimyou. I could be wrong, but that is what I was talking about. Hopefully I made that more clear.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 04:37, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Warlord of the Six Samurai, I mean it's called Samurai Warlords isn't it? It could also have an actual name like Shi-En.
Also, there's no quoting on here, just use something like... <i>this</i> ''or this'' (note, this is two ' not a single "). It looks like this or this.
121.222.167.78 (talk) 05:03, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

I would much rather have it be a monster with a name, and not to mention I think all the cards that have titles as opposed to names were given alternate cards too.

Shinkirou 00:53, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

One of these days we will actually get an entire deck list, right?

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 22:56, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Probably won't be until the middle oh June before the full list is up. However I reckon all the details for the XYZ and any other new cards will be within a week or so, though thats more wishful thinking than anything else.

Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 00:50, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't hold your breath as I believe normally the deck list is because they are released earlier in the OCG and no such lick this time.

Shinkirou 01:41, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

New Six Sam Xyz is out: Shadow of the Six Samurai - Shien.
EARTH Warrior/Xyz/Effect
2 Level 4 "Six Samurai" monsters
2500/400
Once per turn, during either player's turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card to target 1 face-up "Six Samurai" monster you control with less than 2500 ATK; its original ATK becomes 2500 until the End Phase.

Note, the numbers are a less than X attack, its original attack becomes X are a little blurry so that may be wrong.
Thank god it's not a negate an effect like mentioned here, Shien + that would need pretty damn good hand to get over.
138.130.240.130 (talk) 13:43, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

THAT'S ITS EFFECT!!!!

That is lame. We needed something that could negate effects. I'll still use him, but I am not going to use 3 of him, 2 at most, if I have room. That is stupid, we need a samurai to negate effects from stuff like Rabbit and Inzektors.

And his name is Shadow? SHADOW!!!!

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:06, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Naturia Landoise, do it... Djjomon (talk • contribs) 15:21, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I guess it really depends on if the effect is 3000 or 2500. If it is 3000, I'll definitely run two of him. If it is 2500, probably just one.

Right now, my extra deck is planned for two Shadows and Excalibur. I plan to remove Adreus, Invoker, and Leviair.

As such, my extra deck would contain:

Shi-En

Beast

Catastor

Barkion

Brionac

Landoise

2x Shadow

2x Utopia

Utopia Ray

Maestroke

Excalibur

Blade Armor

Shark Drake (will be replaced by Verz Ouroborus when he comes out)

Also, if it is 3000, I'm going to switch out one of my Grandmasters for a Nisashi.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:43, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Really unimpressed.

Shinkirou 17:45, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

since when has being able to boost to 3000 atk been bad? i swear, ygo duelists are obsessed with broken effects and if the boss monster isnt completely busted, its bad. honestly, shadow is a pretty balanced card - however you might as well just run Blade Armor Ninja and Heroic Champion - Excalibur instead. Trak0don (talk • contribs) 17:48, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

The page says ?000 atk so IDK what it will really do, but I would have preferred the detach protection, and detach to negate 1 monsters effect (or protection plus detach for a permanent +500). He doesnt have to be broken, but I want samurais to be able to stand alone as opposed to needing to summon 10 monsters in one turn or they auto lose.

EDIT: Let me put it this way. Right now the Samurai focus on synergy, but when you have to give up 2 monsters for 1 its effect needs to be good. This card may very well need 3 monsters just to use its effect. It would have been nice to have a weaker shi en variant as opposed to buffing my weaker dudes I use as stepping stones. All this so I don't auto lose when they solemn my only Shi en right in the face.

Shinkirou 19:13, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

It's not that I am mad that the effect isn't broken, it is just that this effect does nothing to help the Samurais against the (now I guess) Big 4 (Hieratics, Inzektors, Rabbits, Wind-Ups).

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 23:12, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Pretty sure it's gonna be boosted to 2000 ATK cos making a lv 4 have 3000 ATK is too much. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 01:53, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Why the hell am I required to login for posting now?
Anyway, I agree with Trak0don, people are too obsessed with broken as hell effects.
Opponent first turn Shi-En + Shadow of Shien's you, what're your options? Use a spell/trap to destroy them? Nope, Shi-En covers that. Summon TGU into Acid Golem/Zenmaines or maybe Junk Synchron into Catastor? (now for the meta), summon rabbit into Gem Knight Pearl? Summon Dragonfly? TGU/Rat into Acid Golem/Zenmaines? Shadow of Shien would cover all of those.
The fact of the matter is with no spells/traps or effects you're completely shut down with pretty near every deck I can think of, your only hope would be to sack like fuck with Dark Hole + Monster reborn, double D Prison or something.
And if you're having trouble with six sams against Rabbit you're probably doing it wrong, your main monster is 2500 attack that can negate spells/traps and you can easily make level 6's and other level 5's (catastor anyone?), Rabbits is 2400 or 2300 (2550 in OCG) and rely on traps A LOT to get rid of problem monsters.
Nacjac (talk • contribs) 02:12, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]Pretty sure it's gonna be boosted to 2000 ATK cos making a lv 4 have 3000 ATK is too much. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 01:53, May 26, 2012[/quote]

I disagree. Samurais lack in attack strength, so cards like REDMD are a nuissance to them. Making the card 3000 is the only way they can have brute strength against these cards. Plus, using Shadow's effect on Kageki puts him up to 4500, and then using 2 counters from Gateway gets him up to 5000 so he can suicide on monsters like Five God Dragon and take out Odin.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 05:55, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Do you think of the meta at all? A 4500 attack level 4 is incredibly broken. I mean wow, how could you even think that would be a good idea? And feel free to learn to read at any time, it says original attack which means its attack is raised to that not added onto it.
I know it's your favourite deck but some peoples favourite decks are Rabbit, you don't hear them asking for 3000 attack laggias since the only real problem they have is the low attack.
121.222.80.160 (talk) 08:35, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

I made this page out of anticpation for a the structure decl, and the XYZ. And I am disapointed with Shadow. I'm not saying it is a bad card, but I will go for Blade Armor Ninja, or Heroic Champion Excalibur (when on DN) over this card. Hopefully there is a couple of new Effect Monsters or spell/trap support to go with it.

Doz Bate: Stay (sic)!! 09:24, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]Do you think of the meta at all? A 4500 attack level 4 is incredibly broken. I mean wow, how could you even think that would be a good idea? And feel free to learn to read at any time, it says original attack which means its attack is raised to that not added onto it.[/quote]

Oh no, a moonster with 4500 for ONE TURN, the meta is so broken.

And I did read, but this discussion occured hours ago on another board. Learn to read other Yu-Gi-Oh! message boards. Yes, the ORIGINAL ATTACK is increased to 3000, and then those monsters with effects still gain their additional attack power, so Kizan would go up to 3300, Enishi would be 3500, and Kageki would be 4500. Basically, Kageki's attack is 200, he then goes up to 3000, his effect adds 1500 if there is another samurai on the field, so he goes to 4500.

Don't worry though, I thought the same way as you did on this until I was shown the correct path.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:30, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

A monster with 4500 atk for one turn is not OP at all, but when that monster is a lv 3/4, then yes it is extremely broken. You talk about the cheapness of REDMD, how it's 2800 for only 1 tribute essentially. Well, doesn't 3000 ATK for nothing seem more ridiculous then? It's obvious that you are so obssessed with the Six Samurai archetype that you think it's only "fair" when they can counter everything. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 15:47, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I missed the part where the was a ruling that stated Level 3 and 4 monsters were capped off in what their ATK was.

And yes, the point of creating a deck is to be able to counter everything. That is where the strategy of the game comes in, to be able to do so. Doing OTKs is boring because neither player gets to play the game, but countering everything your opponent does is fun because you are seeing if your plans work or not.

Should I not be in love with my samurai deck? I mean, it is the only deck I play that actually works these days (at least until I can afford to complete my Hieratic deck), and it is the only deck Konami seems interested in continuing to support of the ones I play, so I have no choice but to love it. If I could, I would still be all over the Nordics and Counter Trap Fairies, but those are completely obsolete and only people that like to lose would play them.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:39, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I missed the part where I said having a lv 4 monster with 4000+ atk was against the rules.

And no, the point of making a deck is not to counter everything, but to try to do so, although you WILL fail. Just use some common sense. Everyone tries to perfect their deck, but if there really was a deck that could counter everything, the majority of players would be using, and topping, with it. But as we all know such a deck does not exist.

You should most definitely continue to love your cards. It's lack of passion, and the sole desire to win that creats abuse and destroys the game. Now I dont play Nordics or Counter Fairy either, but I dont think its nice to bash on them just because they are weaker than the current meta.

To sum it up: you're sounding a bit crazy. Overdefensive and worked up for no reason. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 16:54, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Um, kain, read this again.
Doing OTKs is boring because neither player gets to play the game, but countering everything your opponent does is fun because you are seeing if your plans work or not. Now try playing against Rabbit with full solemn backrow set + starlight and a d prison with both Laggia + Dolkka, maybe even replace one of them for Ophion, sure is "fun" trying to get around it right? "What if I try... nope, negated. How about... nope, negated."
And if you hate OTK's so much why are you building a hieratic deck? If you aren't OTKing with them you're doing something completely wrong.
Just think about the 4000 attack thing for a bit, sure it'd be fun for you but what if instead of your favourite deck, your most hated deck could do it? I doubt you'd like it if Inzektor Giga-Mantis was "Boost the original attack of one inzektor monster to 4000 until the end phase" or something similar.
101.163.14.144 (talk) 02:45, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Doing OTKs is boring because neither player gets to play the game, but countering everything your opponent does is fun because you are seeing if your plans work or not.

Should I not be in love with my samurai deck? I mean, it is the only deck I play that actually works these days (at least until I can afford to complete my Hieratic deck),

oh the hypocrisy...

On another note, honestly, there is no way to counter every deck. I remember a few weeks ago in the duelingnetwork forum you were complaining about getting killed by reversal quiz otk (lmao i still laugh at that sometimes) and some user said something to you along the lines of "If your deck was actually good, you wouldn't lose to decks like that. I build my deck so that it has an out to every startegy I come up against" I'd just like to tell you that this philosophy is entirely wrong when it comes to deck building and dueling. You best shake that idea out of your head now because you will NEVER create the perfect deck and always have an answer to everything.

Let's just imagine for a second how massive your deck would have to be to be able to respond to everything your opponent does. It just wouldn't work!

Shouldn't your goal be to use your cards effectively to outlast your opponent and win the game? Im my mind, that is the ideal format, the ideal gamestate, where you need to make reads on what your opponent has and use the cards in your hand to properly dismantle their strategy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The point isn't to develop the deck with new broken cards, but to develop your skills as a player to outplay your opponent. Trak0don (talk • contribs) 04:08, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well said Trak0don. IPlay4Fun (talk • contribs) 09:17, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

[quote]And if you hate OTK's so much why are you building a hieratic deck?[/quote]

Because they are cards based off Egyptian gods and mythology.

If you notice, Nordics are based off Norse mythology. A lot of Fairies are based off of a vareity of mythologies or revolve around them. I prefer to play cards that have a mythological relation, because that is what I am mostly interested in. Honestly, if it wasn't for the Egyptian backstory to the manga/anime, I would never have gotten interested in the game to begin with.

That is also why I found GX and ZeXaL to be crap series, they have nothing relating to mythology in them while 5Ds had the Mayan themes.

And the reason I chose samurais over Wind-Ups and Rabbits is because Samurais make me think of the video game series Onimusha. Hell, sometimes I just think of Shi-En as being Samonosuke with a helmet on, and one of those Shien cards (I do not use it though) look like Nobunaga. The only reason I would ever chose to play Inzektors is because they make me think of a combination of Kamen Rider and Sentai.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:09, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

It seems like if you're really only using cards because of theme, you shouldn't care that much about their standing in the meta, in other words, their effects shouldn't matter that much. Do you play competitively? I think you should run the deck that is the most fun for you. If you lose some duels, it shouldn't matter because you had fun playing the deck. Trak0don (talk • contribs) 22:46, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I second what Trak0don said.
The problem starts though when you start complaining this fun deck can't win. If it's based on a theme, sure, have fun playing the game but don't complain if/when you lose.
101.163.14.144 (talk) 02:44, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

I am really not seeing the problem against Hieratics I have lost I believe 2 matches out of close to 30. They are all the same so you should know what to expect and their are plenty of cards to help counter them. Granted most of them are staples if you have that much of a problem with them then run as many summon and effect blocking cards as possible.

That said I am not mad that its not a broken card, but I just don't feel like it is going to help my deck the slightest (A shame considering the art really).

Shinkirou 18:31, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

If you're meaning in real life in TCG they can't OTK well because they're lacking a few key cards. When they get them they'll be about as meta as Inzektors is my guess.

If you're talking about on DN then most of those guys are just plain incompetent.

60.231.2.167 (talk) 22:10, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yay, shiny versions of Kageki and Smoke Signal!!!

Of course, I still need the Ultra and Super Rares of like a million other cards in my deck, such as Book of Moon, MST, DH, BTH, Fiendish Chain, Gateway, Grandmaster, etc.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 14:17, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

........... anyway,

why are all of konami's products becoming really lame??

The battle pack was great (cool cards but you don't really get your moneys worth), but Gold Series haunted mine and this are both extremely lackluster. Who's gonna buy these things? Trak0don (talk • contribs) 12:52, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I think there are people who will buy the Gold Series, I mean come on, the Gold Grapha looks great! Plus, MST and Solemn Judgment also get the gold treatment this year. As for the Battle Pack, it's meant to be sealed play, so it has to be a little lackluster, they can't throw a ton of broken or unusable cards into it. As for the Samurai SD, it's not great, but people will buy it for the Fiendish Chains. ---Dark Ace SP (Talk) 13:06, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well we still don't know what Shadow's exact effect is. Either way, I will be running two in my deck just because he is a Samurai, but I would probably only summon him when I have Gateway or United on the field if he only boosts attak to 2000.

I also am going to get the decks for the Super Rares of Kageki and Signal. My goal is to one day acquire shiny versions of all of the cards (Uniteds, Grandmasters, Reborn, Dark Hole, BTH, CEDs, Book, FChain, etc).

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 16:10, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh! It;s literally the stupidest thing that they used the super-rare card slots for reprints of already avilable cards! Have they ever done in a structure deck?? Seriously, the samurai got zero support from this deck as the xyz monster is lame and there are no new cards to give them a boost. Trak0don (talk • contribs) 01:10, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

shadow shien rises ATK to 3000 so thats not lame also i'd quit if sams get an effect negating xyz because shi en is annoying by itself also if you sam players want an effect negation so bad you can use naturia landoise.--LaserGhost (talk • contribs) 05:50, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Landoise can't stop Rabbit.

Dr Kain (talk • contribs) 15:34, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes it can.--Helix-king (talk • contribs) 16:45, June 9, 2012 (UTC)