Forum:Horus and Iron Core

A friend of mine got himself some iron Cores lately for his Koa'ki Meiru's and I was wondering whether Horus LV8 could negate the effect that allows it to be drawn from the graveyard?

If so, Horus could well become a major counter to his Koa'ki Meiru for it's attack power, attribute and effect.

83.86.46.208 (talk) 16:36, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

I see no reason why it cannot-82.11.158.0 (talk) 16:50, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Note that Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 states "You can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them." That means you opponent can still conduct their Normal draw because it is considered that the effect of Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru wasn't activated.-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 07:05, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not certain, but I don't think Horus can negate 'activations' such as that. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:16, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean?-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 07:17, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Not sure, but the 'activation' of cards such as Iron Core should just an 'activation of an effect' and not an 'activation of a card'. -Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:21, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru is in the graveyard, you are "activating its effect".-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 07:23, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and Horus says "You can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them."

when compared to... Stardust Dragon "negate the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect"

-Falzar FZ- (talk page|useful stuff) 07:26, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I see your point. I think that you are right.-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 07:29, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

So I take the answer is no? Come to think of it, a spell card in the graveyard cannot be destroyed, correct? If following the rulings, Horus cannot negate the activation if it cannot be destroyed. Or at least, that's my latest thought concerning this matter... 83.86.46.208 (talk) 19:38, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Horus can only negate a Spell Card that is being activated by placing it from the hand onto the field or activated by being flipped from face-down to face-up on the field. He can't stop a Spell card from being activated in the Graveyard such as Iron Core or a Spell card in the graveyard that was sent by Diamond Dude. I hope that will clear this up. Skullvarnish (talk • contribs) 19:55, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

im pretty sure you can negate both of the iron core's effects, as both of them start chains , and horus lv 8 clearly states "You can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them." so , the iron core activates in the graveyard, and start a chain, and it's a spell card and its effects is to be added to the hand , so , why won't horus be able to negate it, if horus effect says he can negate any effect or activation of spell card , regardless its on the field or graveyard? 190.191.188.242 (talk) 02:49, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

From the ruling:

"You can chain the effect of "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" to the activation of a Continuous Spell Card, Field Spell Card, or Equip Spell Card and negate it. However, if the Continuous, Field, or Equip Spell Card is already active, you cannot later decide to try and negate its effect with "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8". You can only negate it when it is originally activated."

"Activating a Spell Card" refers to using the card itself as in placing it from the hand or flipping it face-up. "Activating the effect of a Spell Card" refers to using the effect without actually placing it on the field or flipping it face-up. When you decide to add Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru to your hand via its effect, you are "activating its effect" not "activating the spell card". That is why Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 cannot negate the effect of Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru.

The destruction part of its effect is a bonus. It doesn't necessarily have to destroy the Spell Card for it to negate its activation and effects.-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 05:03, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

horus can negate the activation and effect of any spell card. therefore , if it negates the activation of a spell card , it wouldn't be nessesary to negate the effect too , as the card didn't activate. but the effect of horus lv 8 says it also negates the effect , so, by my understanding , it can negate the effect of the iron core. for me , proof of that is that horus lv8 's effect doesn't have the "face up/in the field" part , so can negate in the graveyard. if you check other cards like spell vanishing and magic drain , they both negate only activation , but no the effect of spell cards. from the "activate" wiki page :"Note that activating a card is different from activating the effect of a card. For example, some effects - like "Magic Jammer" and "Skilled Dark Magician" - only apply to when a Spell Card is activated, but do not apply when the effect of a Spell Card is activated. " that makes the difference between negating the activation , and the activation and effect of a card. 190.191.188.242 (talk) 06:10, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not too sure what you are asking. As a you said, "negating the activation of the Spell Card" is different from "negating the effect of the Spell Card". That is why Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 states that it negates must negate both, not just one of them.-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 07:04, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

that doesn't make any sense. if horus negates the activation , there's no effect. why bother to ad "and effect" par to it's effect then? 190.191.188.242 (talk) 09:37, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

That bit is just a little reminder text.-- HHTurtle  (Talk) 09:39, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

so, the konami people add the "effect" part because they feel like it... im sure it's the same as stardust or prime material dragon's effect but written in a different order :

• stardust dragon: "You can Tribute this card to negate the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect that destroys a card(s) on the field, and destroy that card"

stardust can negate:

• the activation of a Spell Card's effect
• the activation of a Trap Card's effect
• the activation of a Effect Monster's effect

• Horus lv 8: "You can negate the activation and effect of any Spell Cards and destroy them."

horus can negate :

• the activation of any Spell Cards
• the effect of any Spell Cards

i think we really need the opinion of ATEMVEGETA and Deus Ex Machina...

190.191.188.242 (talk) 18:39, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

From the official rulings:

"Putting a Clock Counter on “Clock Tower Prison” can be chained to. The effect to Special Summon “Destiny Hero - Dreadmaster” can also be chained to. Even though this can be chained to, it cannot be chained to with an effect that negates the activation of a Spell Card, such as..."Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" because the "Clock Tower Prison" card has already resolved."

Replace "Clock Tower Prison" with "Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru". Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 cannot negate the activation of the effect of a Spell Card. Only the initial activation of the Spell Card.

Stardust Dragon has been mistranslated in the TCG. Its OCG text is clearer: "When the effect of a Spell Card, Trap Card or Effect monster that has “an effect that destroys cards on the field” is activated, by tributing this card you can negate the activation of the effect and destroy the card."

ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 23:35, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

are you sure? Iron Core of Koa'kimeiru is a special Case , it doesn't have an initial activation like continuous, equip or field cards. it can't be activated from the hand , the activation of the iron core is always from the graveyard. Aguz89 (talk • contribs) 23:58, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

It is still the activation of a Spell Card's effect. When you activate Clock Tower Prison's effect it is also the activation of a Spell Card's effect. Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8 cannot negate them. ATEMVEGETA (Talk) 00:02, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks ATEMVEGETA, for answering my question. Thanks to the rest of you, too. It's become clear now. 83.86.46.208 (talk) 17:59, August 2, 2010 (UTC)